Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEEMain guidelines
Some how I also agree with bala sir, doing exam on the computer give any vi students independent. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Srikanth Bolla Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:32 PM To: 'Asudani, Rajesh'; 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility andissues concerning the disabled.' Subject: Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEEMain guidelines HI, We did not mean we need own scribe for science subjects. I made a comparison saying that for non-science subjects, there is no need for own scribe. Of course, you may request scribe from the center with same background but even that same background is not needed to write eats or any other words. If you think the scribe is making mistake, you are supposed to spell the words. In fact, it's not scribes duty to write correct spellings. Scribe has all rights to ask you to spell anything that is not clear. So this is why, we should all promote the use of computers to take exams. Or we can use recorders to record answers. I hope this will help you understand. But I am again reiterating that requesting own scribe in many case is just to escape and pass out. Regards, -Original Message- From: Asudani, Rajesh [mailto:rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in ] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 1:37 AM To: presidentsrika...@gmail.com; AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: RE: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEE Main guidelines Well, not writing a detailed reply but why do you need own scribe if the exam is non-scince subjects, literature based? Please think twice. A scribe always wrote Yeast, when I said, Yeats I think this suffices to explain my point. So, science is not the only subject requiring your own scribe. Wavelength matters and no authority can impose scribe on us, more often than not, they impose utterly inefficient scribes. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Srikanth Bolla Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 9:53 AM To: 'Kartik Sawhney' Cc: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled.' Subject: Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEE Main guidelines Dear Karthik, I am thrilled to get your detailed perspective on this problem. I hope we both are not the only once writing back and forth and maybe wasting time on this subject. Nice to know that CBSC gave their own computer and invigilation. Sorry they did over in your case. Maybe this might be the first time so it's just due to lack of awareness. Let me point out your concern "that no talented student should miss out the opportunity due to lack of accommodations" I am also 100% with you on this. Personally, I lost so much due to lack of proper accommodations in science subjects. Even I don't want any talented student to get hindered by the discriminatory procedures, however, I strictly don't want any unqualified student to pass out the exams with the help from scribes. Talented students struggling are rare but unqualified and unskilled people getting 100's are seen in high percentage. Of course people on this list might debate on this point but once own consciousness will tell the truth. Personally, I know unqualified people passing out with more than 80%. Don't you think this is bad? I 100% agree with your point of recording the entire session and allow own scribe. Then since there will be video and audio, student and the scribe will have very less chance to cheat. Recording the session also can bring out valid questions or concerns from both parties. Then concern authorities can review and make necessary accommodations in the education curriculum or in the examination system. I know all this will not happen overnight but before we ask for own scribe, we have to bring out these points. Everyone should be aware that bringing own scribe means carrying extra responsibilities. Some of the specific questions we are talking are more for science students. But in India for everything people are requesting own scribes. For example, do you think bank exams or IAS or other groups or teacher entrance involve any scientific notations? I don't think so. If I am wrong, people can correct me. If the exam is mainly literature based, then why do you need your own scribe? Same with other non-science subjects. For nonscience subjects, you don't even need scribe from the same background but I can take that easy. But I completely oppose the idea of own scribe. Getting own scribe is simply an excuse to pass without working for it. Mainly, assistive technology should be permitted rather than own scribe. I don't think explaining about the diagram or the molecular model is the duty of the scribe.
Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEEMain guidelines
Srikanth and Kartik, I second Srinivasu's second mail that you are certainly not wasting any time. In fact, this is one of the most fruitful discussions on the list. I'm somewhat busy with personal assignments, hence will write briefly. No conclusions, only analysis. 1. Writing exam on the computer Very few visually challenged people have access to the computer with screen reader in India. So, can't expect every one to do it. 2. Own scribe Very helpful for genuine candidates. At the same time, very easy to cheat the examination body if candidate is not genuine, especially with the present guidelines. 3. Scribe provided by examination body Okay if scribe is good. Hell if otherwise. Spelling every word to the scribe is impossible. As far as selective words are concerned, you won't know which words are misspelt by the scribe. 4. Strengthening invigilation Ideal solution. But invigilators are also human. Blind people will easily make them sympathise with them. This may hurt some. But can not rule out the reality. What is the solution? On 11/19/13, raaju wrote: > Some how I also agree with bala sir, doing exam on the computer give any vi > students independent. > -Original Message- > From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf > Of Srikanth Bolla > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:32 PM > To: 'Asudani, Rajesh'; 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility > andissues concerning the disabled.' > Subject: Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in > JEEMain guidelines > > HI, >We did not mean we need own scribe for science subjects. I made a > comparison saying that for non-science subjects, there is no need for own > scribe. Of course, you may request scribe from the center with same > background but even that same background is not needed to write eats or any > other words. If you think the scribe is making mistake, you are supposed to > spell the words. In fact, it's not scribes duty to write correct spellings. > Scribe has all rights to ask you to spell anything that is not clear. So > this is why, we should all promote the use of computers to take exams. Or > we > can use recorders to record answers. I hope this will help you understand. > But I am again reiterating that requesting own scribe in many case is just > to escape and pass out. Regards, -Original Message- > From: Asudani, Rajesh [mailto:rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in] Sent: Tuesday, > November 19, 2013 1:37 AM > To: presidentsrika...@gmail.com; AccessIndia: a list for discussing > accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. > Subject: RE: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEE > Main guidelines > > Well, not writing a detailed reply but why do you need own scribe if the > exam is non-scince subjects, literature based? > Please think twice. > A scribe always wrote Yeast, when I said, Yeats > I think this suffices to explain my point. > So, science is not the only subject requiring your own scribe. > Wavelength matters and no authority can impose scribe on us, more often > than > not, they impose utterly inefficient scribes. > > > -Original Message- > From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf > Of Srikanth Bolla > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 9:53 AM > To: 'Kartik Sawhney' > Cc: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning > the disabled.' > Subject: Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEE > Main guidelines > > Dear Karthik, >I am thrilled to get your detailed perspective on this problem. I hope > we both are not the only once writing back and forth and maybe wasting time > on this subject. Nice to know that CBSC gave their own computer and > invigilation. Sorry they did over in your case. Maybe this might be the > first time so it's just due to lack of awareness. Let me point out your > concern "that no talented student should miss out the opportunity due to > lack of accommodations" > I am also 100% with you on this. Personally, I lost so much due to lack of > proper accommodations in science subjects. Even I don't want any talented > student to get hindered by the discriminatory procedures, however, I > strictly don't want any unqualified student to pass out the exams with the > help from scribes. Talented students struggling are rare but unqualified > and unskilled people getting 100's are seen in high percentage. Of course > people on this list might debate on this point but once own consciousness > will tell the truth. Personally, I know unqualified people passing out with > more than 8
Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEEMain guidelines
Hi all, I agree with the views of Mr. Srikanth. Many VI students are taking advantage of their disability, by asking the scribe to prepare for their exams. But, there is one more point here. I am doing my LLM right now. Next year I am planning to appear for NET. If the concerned centre authorities provide me a scribe who is from science background, he/she cannot pronounce many of the legal maxims properly. Then, what would be my position? I am not talking without evidence. I already had a bitter experience in it. Last year, I appeared for AP PG Law CET 2012, for which the scribe was provided by the University in which I wrote my exam. Do you know what was the result of it? The scribe was a clerk in some department in the University who was aged more than 55 years, who did not know English, read me the question paper in such a manner that I am not able to understand even the basic questions properly because he told me openly when I asked him to repeat the questions once more, you are irritating me. At last, I scored only 86 for 120 marks, though I know 110 answers perfectly(when my father read the questions at home, I am able to answer). So, bringing our own scribe is nothing wrong in my opinion. But, VI candidates should not misuse the privileges given to them by the Government. one more point here is, not only for science students, but also for literature, law etc, there is a need for them to get a scribe from their own background. Sorry if it hurts anyone, its my personal opinion. On 11/19/13, Vamshi. G wrote: > Srikanth and Kartik, > > I second Srinivasu's second mail that you are certainly not wasting > any time. In fact, this is one of the most fruitful discussions on > the list. > > I'm somewhat busy with personal assignments, hence will write briefly. > No conclusions, only analysis. > > 1. Writing exam on the computer > > Very few visually challenged people have access to the computer with > screen reader in India. So, can't expect every one to do it. > > 2. Own scribe > > Very helpful for genuine candidates. At the same time, very easy to > cheat the examination body if candidate is not genuine, especially > with the present guidelines. > > 3. Scribe provided by examination body > > Okay if scribe is good. Hell if otherwise. Spelling every word to > the scribe is impossible. As far as selective words are concerned, > you won't know which words are misspelt by the scribe. > > 4. Strengthening invigilation > > Ideal solution. But invigilators are also human. Blind people will > easily make them sympathise with them. This may hurt some. But can > not rule out the reality. > > What is the solution? > > > > > > On 11/19/13, raaju wrote: >> Some how I also agree with bala sir, doing exam on the computer give any >> vi >> students independent. >> -Original Message- >> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On >> Behalf >> Of Srikanth Bolla >> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:32 PM >> To: 'Asudani, Rajesh'; 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility >> andissues concerning the disabled.' >> Subject: Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in >> JEEMain guidelines >> >> HI, >>We did not mean we need own scribe for science subjects. I made a >> comparison saying that for non-science subjects, there is no need for own >> scribe. Of course, you may request scribe from the center with same >> background but even that same background is not needed to write eats or >> any >> other words. If you think the scribe is making mistake, you are supposed >> to >> spell the words. In fact, it's not scribes duty to write correct >> spellings. >> Scribe has all rights to ask you to spell anything that is not clear. So >> this is why, we should all promote the use of computers to take exams. Or >> we >> can use recorders to record answers. I hope this will help you >> understand. >> But I am again reiterating that requesting own scribe in many case is >> just >> to escape and pass out. Regards, -Original Message- >> From: Asudani, Rajesh [mailto:rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in ] Sent: Tuesday, >> November 19, 2013 1:37 AM >> To: presidentsrika...@gmail.com; AccessIndia: a list for discussing >> accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. >> Subject: RE: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in >> JEE >> Main guidelines >> >> Well, not writing a detailed reply but why do you need own scribe if the >> exam is non-scince subjects, literature based? >> Please think twice. >> A scribe alway
Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEEMain guidelines
Hi Umaji, Yes you are right you may have scribe from the same background but the scribe should be assigned by the examination center. I am fine even if we are given own scribes but there should be very strict invigilation. For example, they have to video tape the entire exam as I said in my previous email. Another thing is that the seating of the scribe and student should clearly visible and may not facilitate any random interaction. My concern here is not to oppose own scribe idea but I don't really want any unqualified student to pass out. These unqualified students are spoiling the entire blind community name. Regards, -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf of Uma V Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:34 PM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEEMain guidelines Hi all, I agree with the views of Mr. Srikanth. Many VI students are taking advantage of their disability, by asking the scribe to prepare for their exams. But, there is one more point here. I am doing my LLM right now. Next year I am planning to appear for NET. If the concerned centre authorities provide me a scribe who is from science background, he/she cannot pronounce many of the legal maxims properly. Then, what would be my position? I am not talking without evidence. I already had a bitter experience in it. Last year, I appeared for AP PG Law CET 2012, for which the scribe was provided by the University in which I wrote my exam. Do you know what was the result of it? The scribe was a clerk in some department in the University who was aged more than 55 years, who did not know English, read me the question paper in such a manner that I am not able to understand even the basic questions properly because he told me openly when I asked him to repeat the questions once more, you are irritating me. At last, I scored only 86 for 120 marks, though I know 110 answers perfectly(when my father read the questions at home, I am able to answer). So, bringing our own scribe is nothing wrong in my opinion. But, VI candidates should not misuse the privileges given to them by the Government. one more point here is, not only for science students, but also for literature, law etc, there is a need for them to get a scribe from their own background. Sorry if it hurts anyone, its my personal opinion. On 11/19/13, Vamshi. G wrote: > Srikanth and Kartik, > > I second Srinivasu's second mail that you are certainly not wasting > any time. In fact, this is one of the most fruitful discussions on > the list. > > I'm somewhat busy with personal assignments, hence will write briefly. > No conclusions, only analysis. > > 1. Writing exam on the computer > > Very few visually challenged people have access to the computer with > screen reader in India. So, can't expect every one to do it. > > 2. Own scribe > > Very helpful for genuine candidates. At the same time, very easy to > cheat the examination body if candidate is not genuine, especially > with the present guidelines. > > 3. Scribe provided by examination body > > Okay if scribe is good. Hell if otherwise. Spelling every word to > the scribe is impossible. As far as selective words are concerned, > you won't know which words are misspelt by the scribe. > > 4. Strengthening invigilation > > Ideal solution. But invigilators are also human. Blind people will > easily make them sympathise with them. This may hurt some. But can > not rule out the reality. > > What is the solution? > > > > > > On 11/19/13, raaju wrote: >> Some how I also agree with bala sir, doing exam on the computer give >> any vi students independent. >> -Original Message- >> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On >> Behalf Of Srikanth Bolla >> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:32 PM >> To: 'Asudani, Rajesh'; 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing >> accessibility andissues concerning the disabled.' >> Subject: Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes >> in JEEMain guidelines >> >> HI, >>We did not mean we need own scribe for science subjects. I made a >> comparison saying that for non-science subjects, there is no need for >> own scribe. Of course, you may request scribe from the center with >> same background but even that same background is not needed to write >> eats or any other words. If you think the scribe is making mistake, >> you are supposed to spell the words. In fact, it's not scribes duty >> to write correct spellings. >> Scribe has all rights to ask you to spell any
Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEEMain guidelines
Hello, I completely understand your perspective but I disagree with you. If blind people have capacity to cheat like sited, its fine and let them cheat at their own ethics and values. But scribe is a legal support that government gives. So let's not use scribe to cheat. Of course, if people have intellectual technology or some source like the micro zerox to cheat, then people can use them and law will do its own duty to catch them. Regards, -Original Message- From: Pinkesh Tailor [mailto:pinkesh.tai...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:14 PM To: presidentsrika...@gmail.com; AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEEMain guidelines Hello, Indeed a healthy debate. But it is a matter of ethics and value whether sighted or blind. Even sighted people if dishonest can copy and pass any kind of exam. Blind people are also human. Unfortunately we don't wish to come out of our blindness and become a human first who has their own strengths and weeknesses whether sighted or blind. On 11/20/13, Srikanth Bolla wrote: > Hi Umaji, > Yes you are right you may have scribe from the same background but > the scribe should be assigned by the examination center. I am fine > even if we are given own scribes but there should be very strict > invigilation. For example, they have to video tape the entire exam as I said in my previous > email. Another thing is that the seating of the scribe and student should > clearly visible and may not facilitate any random interaction. My > concern here is not to oppose own scribe idea but I don't really want > any unqualified student to pass out. These unqualified students are > spoiling the entire blind community name. Regards, > > -Original Message- > From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On > Behalf of Uma V > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:34 PM > To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues > concerning the disabled. > Subject: Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in > JEEMain guidelines > > Hi all, > > I agree with the views of Mr. Srikanth. Many VI students are taking > advantage of their disability, by asking the scribe to prepare for > their exams. > But, there is one more point here. I am doing my LLM right now. Next > year I am planning to appear for NET. If the concerned centre > authorities provide me a scribe who is from science background, he/she > cannot pronounce many of the legal maxims properly. Then, what would be my position? > I am not talking without evidence. I already had a bitter experience in it. > Last year, I appeared for AP PG Law CET 2012, for which the scribe was > provided by the University in which I wrote my exam. Do you know what > was the result of it? > The scribe was a clerk in some department in the University who was > aged more than 55 years, who did not know English, read me the > question paper in such a manner that I am not able to understand even > the basic questions properly because he told me openly when I asked > him to repeat the questions once more, you are irritating me. > At last, I scored only 86 for 120 marks, though I know 110 answers > perfectly(when my father read the questions at home, I am able to answer). > So, bringing our own scribe is nothing wrong in my opinion. But, VI > candidates should not misuse the privileges given to them by the > Government. > one more point here is, > not only for science students, but also for literature, law etc, there > is a need for them to get a scribe from their own background. > Sorry if it hurts anyone, its my personal opinion. > On 11/19/13, Vamshi. G wrote: >> Srikanth and Kartik, >> >> I second Srinivasu's second mail that you are certainly not wasting >> any time. In fact, this is one of the most fruitful discussions on >> the list. >> >> I'm somewhat busy with personal assignments, hence will write briefly. >> No conclusions, only analysis. >> >> 1. Writing exam on the computer >> >> Very few visually challenged people have access to the computer with >> screen reader in India. So, can't expect every one to do it. >> >> 2. Own scribe >> >> Very helpful for genuine candidates. At the same time, very easy to >> cheat the examination body if candidate is not genuine, especially >> with the present guidelines. >> >> 3. Scribe provided by examination body >> >> Okay if scribe is good. Hell if otherwise. Spelling every word to >> the scribe is impossible. As far as selective words are concerned, >> you
Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEEMain guidelines
Hi again, just let me reiterate that we are not trying or wasting time to understand ways of sited and blind people cheating. I hope it's the duty of law. We are trying to find ways to promote healthy learning and successful talent among blind people. Anyone can cheat at their own risk. So blind people also can cheat in many ways but we want to exclude scribe source of cheating. Regards, -Original Message- From: Pinkesh Tailor [mailto:pinkesh.tai...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:14 PM To: presidentsrika...@gmail.com; AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in JEEMain guidelines Hello, Indeed a healthy debate. But it is a matter of ethics and value whether sighted or blind. Even sighted people if dishonest can copy and pass any kind of exam. Blind people are also human. Unfortunately we don't wish to come out of our blindness and become a human first who has their own strengths and weeknesses whether sighted or blind. On 11/20/13, Srikanth Bolla wrote: > Hi Umaji, > Yes you are right you may have scribe from the same background but > the scribe should be assigned by the examination center. I am fine > even if we are given own scribes but there should be very strict > invigilation. For example, they have to video tape the entire exam as I said in my previous > email. Another thing is that the seating of the scribe and student should > clearly visible and may not facilitate any random interaction. My > concern here is not to oppose own scribe idea but I don't really want > any unqualified student to pass out. These unqualified students are > spoiling the entire blind community name. Regards, > > -Original Message- > From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On > Behalf of Uma V > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:34 PM > To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues > concerning the disabled. > Subject: Re: [AI] Good news for blind engineering aspirants-changes in > JEEMain guidelines > > Hi all, > > I agree with the views of Mr. Srikanth. Many VI students are taking > advantage of their disability, by asking the scribe to prepare for > their exams. > But, there is one more point here. I am doing my LLM right now. Next > year I am planning to appear for NET. If the concerned centre > authorities provide me a scribe who is from science background, he/she > cannot pronounce many of the legal maxims properly. Then, what would be my position? > I am not talking without evidence. I already had a bitter experience in it. > Last year, I appeared for AP PG Law CET 2012, for which the scribe was > provided by the University in which I wrote my exam. Do you know what > was the result of it? > The scribe was a clerk in some department in the University who was > aged more than 55 years, who did not know English, read me the > question paper in such a manner that I am not able to understand even > the basic questions properly because he told me openly when I asked > him to repeat the questions once more, you are irritating me. > At last, I scored only 86 for 120 marks, though I know 110 answers > perfectly(when my father read the questions at home, I am able to answer). > So, bringing our own scribe is nothing wrong in my opinion. But, VI > candidates should not misuse the privileges given to them by the > Government. > one more point here is, > not only for science students, but also for literature, law etc, there > is a need for them to get a scribe from their own background. > Sorry if it hurts anyone, its my personal opinion. > On 11/19/13, Vamshi. G wrote: >> Srikanth and Kartik, >> >> I second Srinivasu's second mail that you are certainly not wasting >> any time. In fact, this is one of the most fruitful discussions on >> the list. >> >> I'm somewhat busy with personal assignments, hence will write briefly. >> No conclusions, only analysis. >> >> 1. Writing exam on the computer >> >> Very few visually challenged people have access to the computer with >> screen reader in India. So, can't expect every one to do it. >> >> 2. Own scribe >> >> Very helpful for genuine candidates. At the same time, very easy to >> cheat the examination body if candidate is not genuine, especially >> with the present guidelines. >> >> 3. Scribe provided by examination body >> >> Okay if scribe is good. Hell if otherwise. Spelling every word to >> the scribe is impossible. As far as selective words are concerned, >> you won't know which words are misspelt by the scribe.
