RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes
I've read(haven't tested) in the Exchange Server Cookbook that giving Full mailbox access in ADUC on the user attrib, that doen't automatically give Send As perm. Also, excuse me for being clueless, but I always thought Receive As gave you the right to open a mailbox and view it, when set on the mailbox via ADUC? Is that wrong? When you write on the config container ACLs..., thats setting that right on the enitre store not just one mailbox. Aside from editing the msFxchMailboxSecurityDescriptor, is there any other way to modify the ACLs on just one mailbox? Thanks -Original Message- From: joe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 9:19 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes Receive As rights would be on the AD Object ACL, not the Exchange mailbox ACL. From what I have seen, that won't do anything for you. The only place I have seen Receive As do anything is when it is in combination with Send As on the config container ACLs for Exchange and then the pair are converted to Full Mailbox rights inside of the store. If you set permissions on an non-instantiated mailbox again, the permissions are set on the msExchMailboxSecurityDescriptor attribute. That is supposed to be used for setting up the initial store permissions, HOWEVER, I have seen this work pretty flakey through the years so I have gotten in the habit of not setting permissions on mailboxes until I know they have been instantiated in the store. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kern, Tom Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 5:44 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes If the box is not instantiated then when you edit that attribute, it doesn't get mirrored back to the mailbox in the store. That's what I've seen and read. Just trying to confirm that. So if I create a mailbox and give another user receive as rights before the first user has opened outlook or received an email, that won't be reflected on the mailbox store after he/she has had the box instantiated. Is that correct? Just curious. Thanks -- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ: http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ: http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ: http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/
RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes
Tom, where are you heading with this? Is this just to better understand Exchange permissioning? If so, keep in mind that Exchange store does some conversions on the permissions. It's one of the reasons upgrades are such a PITA as you have to convert from 5.5 permissions structure to NT permissions structure and the store has to do it. Send As permissions is the right of the authenticated entity to Send As that mailstore owner object. Unfortunately, there is no one answer to your question. You'll notice that Microsoft has some confusion around this, at least on their public web page: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/exchange/guides/WorkingE2k3Store/fe474de0-b0e4-48a0-aec1-dcd9fcb4a53c.mspx (Seems odd to try and figure out how 2003 versions work by looking at the readme files for 2000 but there you have it. ) There is some more information available here, although I haven't read it to know if your exact question has been answered in it. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/exchange/2003/library/storperm.mspx Al From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Kern, Tom Sent: Fri 7/15/2005 10:20 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes I've read(haven't tested) in the Exchange Server Cookbook that giving Full mailbox access in ADUC on the user attrib, that doen't automatically give Send As perm. Also, excuse me for being clueless, but I always thought Receive As gave you the right to open a mailbox and view it, when set on the mailbox via ADUC? Is that wrong? When you write on the config container ACLs..., thats setting that right on the enitre store not just one mailbox. Aside from editing the msFxchMailboxSecurityDescriptor, is there any other way to modify the ACLs on just one mailbox? Thanks -Original Message- From: joe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 9:19 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes Receive As rights would be on the AD Object ACL, not the Exchange mailbox ACL. From what I have seen, that won't do anything for you. The only place I have seen Receive As do anything is when it is in combination with Send As on the config container ACLs for Exchange and then the pair are converted to Full Mailbox rights inside of the store. If you set permissions on an non-instantiated mailbox again, the permissions are set on the msExchMailboxSecurityDescriptor attribute. That is supposed to be used for setting up the initial store permissions, HOWEVER, I have seen this work pretty flakey through the years so I have gotten in the habit of not setting permissions on mailboxes until I know they have been instantiated in the store. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kern, Tom Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 5:44 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes If the box is not instantiated then when you edit that attribute, it doesn't get mirrored back to the mailbox in the store. That's what I've seen and read. Just trying to confirm that. So if I create a mailbox and give another user receive as rights before the first user has opened outlook or received an email, that won't be reflected on the mailbox store after he/she has had the box instantiated. Is that correct? Just curious. Thanks -- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ: http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ: http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ: http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ winmail.dat
RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes
Title: RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes I had some free time and I am trying to better understand the 2 headed beast that Exchange makes when married to AD. I'm just trying to figure out how Exchange changes AD perms and how the mailstore perms relate back to the ones in AD and vice versa. I know some tricks are done like listing an "Allow" in the sd's for aDG for the Exchange Domain Servers group before a "Deny" so it can read the hidden memeberships for delivery and it got me curious about other things Exchange does to AD. Sorry. Its a little slow here right now... -Original Message-From: Al Mulnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Al MulnickSent: Friday, July 15, 2005 3:37 PMTo: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes Tom, where are you heading with this? Is this just to better understand Exchange permissioning? If so, keep in mind that Exchange store does some conversions on the permissions. It's one of the reasons upgrades are such a PITA as you have to convert from 5.5 permissions structure to NT permissions structure and the store has to do it. Send As permissions is the right of the authenticated entity to Send As that mailstore owner object.Unfortunately,there is noone answer toyour question.You'll notice that Microsoft has some confusion around this, at least on their public web page: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/exchange/guides/WorkingE2k3Store/fe474de0-b0e4-48a0-aec1-dcd9fcb4a53c.mspx (Seems odd to try and figure out how 2003 versions work by looking at the readme filesfor 2000 but there you have it.) There is some more information available here, although I haven't read it to know if your exact question has been answered in it. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/exchange/2003/library/storperm.mspx Al From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Kern, TomSent: Fri 7/15/2005 10:20 AMTo: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes I've read(haven't tested) in the Exchange Server Cookbook that giving Full mailbox access in ADUC on the user attrib, that doen't automatically give Send As perm.Also, excuse me for being clueless, but I always thought Receive As gave you the right to open a mailbox and view it, when set on the mailbox via ADUC?Is that wrong?When you write "on the config container ACLs...", thats setting that right on the enitre store not just one mailbox.Aside from editing the msFxchMailboxSecurityDescriptor, is there any other way to modify the ACLs on just one mailbox?Thanks-Original Message-From: joe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 9:19 PMTo: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- ExchangeattributesReceive As rights would be on the AD Object ACL, not the Exchange mailboxACL. From what I have seen, that won't do anything for you. The only place Ihave seen Receive As do anything is when it is in combination with Send Ason the config container ACLs for Exchange and then the pair are converted toFull Mailbox rights inside of the store.If you set permissions on an non-instantiated mailbox again, the permissionsare set on the msExchMailboxSecurityDescriptor attribute. That is supposedto be used for setting up the initial store permissions, HOWEVER, I haveseen this work pretty flakey through the years so I have gotten in the habitof not setting permissions on mailboxes until I know they have beeninstantiated in the store.-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kern, TomSent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 5:44 PMTo: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: Re: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- ExchangeattributesIf the box is not instantiated then when you edit that attribute, it doesn'tget mirrored back to the mailbox in the store.That's what I've seen and read.Just trying to confirm that.So if I "create" a mailbox and give another user "receive as" rights beforethe first user has opened outlook or received an email, that won't bereflected on the mailbox store after he/she has had the box instantiated.Is that correct?Just curious.Thanks--Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net)List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspxList FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspxList archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspxList FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspxList archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/List info : ht
RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes
Strictly according to Microsoft, Full Mailbox access given to a user should NOT give the ability to send a message as that user. However, this has been broken I think more than it has worked; broken meaning users with Full Mailbox access on a mailbox but not Send As rights can send as that user. I don't even recall right now if the latest functionality in E2K3 is broken or it works. I think it is actually broken but it depends on HOW you try to send the email. I do know that it has flipped back and forth. Receive as from everything I have seen is ONLY used in the config container. When applied to a user object in the domain partition it doesn't seem to impart anything. I could easily be wrong, but that has been my experience. Permissions written to the config partition can impact an entire DB, an entire store, an entire server, an entire SG, or an entire AG, or all of Exchange, it really depends on what level you put it. You certainly can't set user level perms there. The perms set in the config are the ones you see that show inherited when you look at the actual mailbox permissions. Again when modifying the ACL on a mailbox in the supported way (i.e. through mailboxrights), you have to understand that if the mailbox is instantiated, you are actually writing permissions to the store via MAPI. These are then later shipped out and stamped on the msExchMailboxSecurityDescriptor. If the mailbox isn't instantiated, then you will be writing to the AD attribute directly and you will quickly notice that no inherited permissions are listed, it should be, and it has been a bit since I looked, simply SELF with access on the ACL. Permissions for Exchange are extremely convoluted and weird to say the least. nTSecurityDescriptor permissions applied to config Exchange service objects come into play, permissions in msExchMailboxSecurityDescriptor come into play, permissions set in the store for the mailbox itself come into play, MAPI properties which are actually just fields in the mailbox pretend to be permissions (or roles) and come into play at the calendar and other folder level, and even permissions set on the nTSecurityDescriptor attribute of the user objects comes into play. Specifically in the last case is Send As which is the permission for someone to send a message as someone and have it look like it came directly from the person. It doesn't stop there though, you also have publicDelegates attribute which grants permissions to Send On Behalf of someone else. You also have basically a hack to allow for hidden membership on DLs. There are other things. Every time I dig more into Exchange I tend to bang my forehead a lot. Consquently my forehead is 8.63% (+/- .005%) flatter than it was prior to me having to worry at all about Exchange. joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kern, Tom Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 10:20 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes I've read(haven't tested) in the Exchange Server Cookbook that giving Full mailbox access in ADUC on the user attrib, that doen't automatically give Send As perm. Also, excuse me for being clueless, but I always thought Receive As gave you the right to open a mailbox and view it, when set on the mailbox via ADUC? Is that wrong? When you write on the config container ACLs..., thats setting that right on the enitre store not just one mailbox. Aside from editing the msFxchMailboxSecurityDescriptor, is there any other way to modify the ACLs on just one mailbox? Thanks -Original Message- From: joe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 9:19 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes Receive As rights would be on the AD Object ACL, not the Exchange mailbox ACL. From what I have seen, that won't do anything for you. The only place I have seen Receive As do anything is when it is in combination with Send As on the config container ACLs for Exchange and then the pair are converted to Full Mailbox rights inside of the store. If you set permissions on an non-instantiated mailbox again, the permissions are set on the msExchMailboxSecurityDescriptor attribute. That is supposed to be used for setting up the initial store permissions, HOWEVER, I have seen this work pretty flakey through the years so I have gotten in the habit of not setting permissions on mailboxes until I know they have been instantiated in the store. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kern, Tom Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 5:44 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes If the box is not instantiated then when you edit that attribute, it doesn't get mirrored back to the mailbox in the store. That's what I've seen and read
RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes
It depends. If the mailbox is instantiated in the store then you are updating some MAPI attributes on the mailbox which later get reflected to the AD msExchMailboxSecurityDescriptor attribute. If the mailbox not instantiated, you are modifying the AD msExchMailboxSecurityDescriptor attribute directly. I am not sure if I understand your second question. Mailboxes are represented in AD by the users they are connected to. This doesn't represent disconnected mailboxes though and in fact, these are not represented in AD at all and must be enumerated directly out of the store. I think that is a rather major shortcoming btw. You should be able to get all of that info directly from AD. That is why ESM can be so slow in pulling up info on mailboxs. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kern, Tom Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 1:44 PM To: ActiveDir (E-mail) Subject: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes when you give full control to a user's mailbox in ADCU, are you editing the security descriptor on the mailbox or the msExchMailboxSecurityDescriptor attribute of the user object? I know changing the atrribute does not get mirrored back to the mailbox sd but it works in the opposite direction- changing the sd on the mailbox updates the atrribute. I was just wondering how that worked under the hood- changing a user's rights on a mailbox and wheter you do it thru ADUC or change thru ESM. Also, am I right in assuming AD only contains the info store object but NOT objects for the mailboxes themselves(at least thats what i see thru adsiedit.msc). Thanks. I apologize for all the questions. I guess it got kinda slow here at work and I started thinking about things. Thanks again List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ: http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ: http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/
Re: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes
If the box is not instantiated then when you edit that attribute, it doesn't get mirrored back to the mailbox in the store. That's what I've seen and read. Just trying to confirm that. So if I create a mailbox and give another user receive as rights before the first user has opened outlook or received an email, that won't be reflected on the mailbox store after he/she has had the box instantiated. Is that correct? Just curious. Thanks -- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ: http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/
RE: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes
Receive As rights would be on the AD Object ACL, not the Exchange mailbox ACL. From what I have seen, that won't do anything for you. The only place I have seen Receive As do anything is when it is in combination with Send As on the config container ACLs for Exchange and then the pair are converted to Full Mailbox rights inside of the store. If you set permissions on an non-instantiated mailbox again, the permissions are set on the msExchMailboxSecurityDescriptor attribute. That is supposed to be used for setting up the initial store permissions, HOWEVER, I have seen this work pretty flakey through the years so I have gotten in the habit of not setting permissions on mailboxes until I know they have been instantiated in the store. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kern, Tom Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 5:44 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] My endless question day continued- Exchange attributes If the box is not instantiated then when you edit that attribute, it doesn't get mirrored back to the mailbox in the store. That's what I've seen and read. Just trying to confirm that. So if I create a mailbox and give another user receive as rights before the first user has opened outlook or received an email, that won't be reflected on the mailbox store after he/she has had the box instantiated. Is that correct? Just curious. Thanks -- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ: http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ: http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/
