Re: Backing up virtual machines
Hi all Can someone point me to a licensing document as I'm trying to get some costings for backing up clients either individual, via VM, both etc. I seem to be finding bits and pieces of information but I need something a bit more self-contained. Regards Farren This email (and any attachment) is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please do not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please tell us by reply and delete all copies on your system. Although this email has been scanned for viruses you should rely on your own virus check as the sender accepts no liability for any damage arising out of any bug or virus infection. Please note that email traffic data may be monitored and that emails may be viewed for security reasons. John Wiley Sons Limited is a private limited company registered in England with registered number 641132. Registered office address: The Atrium, Southern Gate, Chichester, West Sussex, PO19 8SQ.
Age-old licensing question
Hi all I know I started this in a reply to my backing up of virtual machines bit thought it best to start a new thread. My simple question is... how do I find out how much licensing costs? :-) I know it's not that simple though. My basic questions are this... 1) do I need to use the PVU calculations to work out how much a standard BA client license will cost or can I just pay for a standard client license? 2) do I use the PVU calculations to back up virtual machines? 3) are standard BA client licenses cpu based (or PVU)? Thanks in advance Farren This email (and any attachment) is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please do not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please tell us by reply and delete all copies on your system. Although this email has been scanned for viruses you should rely on your own virus check as the sender accepts no liability for any damage arising out of any bug or virus infection. Please note that email traffic data may be monitored and that emails may be viewed for security reasons. John Wiley Sons Limited is a private limited company registered in England with registered number 641132. Registered office address: The Atrium, Southern Gate, Chichester, West Sussex, PO19 8SQ.
Re: Age-old licensing question
It is all based on PVU. For virtual machines you are paying for the number of processors of the ESX server. Gary On Sep 28, 2009, at 4:28 AM, Minns, Farren - Chichester wrote: Hi all I know I started this in a reply to my backing up of virtual machines bit thought it best to start a new thread. My simple question is... how do I find out how much licensing costs? :-) I know it's not that simple though. My basic questions are this... 1) do I need to use the PVU calculations to work out how much a standard BA client license will cost or can I just pay for a standard client license? 2) do I use the PVU calculations to back up virtual machines? 3) are standard BA client licenses cpu based (or PVU)? Thanks in advance Farren This email (and any attachment) is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please do not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please tell us by reply and delete all copies on your system. Although this email has been scanned for viruses you should rely on your own virus check as the sender accepts no liability for any damage arising out of any bug or virus infection. Please note that email traffic data may be monitored and that emails may be viewed for security reasons. John Wiley Sons Limited is a private limited company registered in England with registered number 641132. Registered office address: The Atrium, Southern Gate, Chichester, West Sussex, PO19 8SQ.
Re: Per terabyte licensing
We are actually looking into the cost difference. From what I understand, IBM is offering both. However, per terabyte licensing eliminates sub-capacity licensing. And it is your entire site. Not just where it works out best. We are in the midst of passport renewals and found an increase due to core type upgrades. Previously we had older xeons using 50 PVUs per core. And the new machines replacing the older ones are either same cores but at xeon 5540 cores which are now 70 PVUs or double the cores. They brought up per TB licensing. Since then sales has sent me two E-mails inquiring total number of hosts, total TSM sites and total library capacity at each. I was hesitant to say the least. It's been about a week and I haven't heard back yet. When I hear more I'll drop a line. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Skylar Thompson Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:02 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Per terabyte licensing We're in that boat too. We have a GPFS cluster we expect to grow into the petabyte range, so unless IBM sets the per-byte cost *really* low we'll get hammered with that licensing scheme. Zoltan Forray/AC/VCU wrote: Or more costly. We have test VM servers with quad-core processors running 15-VM guests. If I started counting by T-Bytes backed-up, it would cost a lot more than 4-CPU's! From: David Longo david.lo...@health-first.org To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 09/25/2009 03:22 PM Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Haven't heard that. My first thought is that it would make licensing a LOT easier to figure out! David Longo Thomas Denier thomas.den...@jeffersonhospital.org 9/25/2009 3:09 PM Within the last few months there was a series of messages on counting processor cores. A couple of the messages stated that TSM is moving to licensing based on terabytes of stored data rather than processor cores. Where can I find more information on this? # This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain private, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity to give such views or opinions. # -- -- Skylar Thompson (skyl...@u.washington.edu) -- Systems Administrator, Genome Sciences Department -- University of Washington, School of Medicine
Re: Backing up virtual machines
I've used the links off IBM's TSM page: http://www-01.ibm.com/software/tivoli/products/storage-mgr/ You can get the retail license costs and there's a link to the PVU calculator. the PVU calculator also includes info for how virtualization is licensed. Minns, Farren - Chichester wrote: Hi all Can someone point me to a licensing document as I'm trying to get some costings for backing up clients either individual, via VM, both etc. I seem to be finding bits and pieces of information but I need something a bit more self-contained. Regards Farren This email (and any attachment) is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please do not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please tell us by reply and delete all copies on your system. Although this email has been scanned for viruses you should rely on your own virus check as the sender accepts no liability for any damage arising out of any bug or virus infection. Please note that email traffic data may be monitored and that emails may be viewed for security reasons. John Wiley Sons Limited is a private limited company registered in England with registered number 641132. Registered office address: The Atrium, Southern Gate, Chichester, West Sussex, PO19 8SQ. -- -- Skylar Thompson (skyl...@u.washington.edu) -- Genome Sciences Department, System Administrator -- Foege Building S048, (206)-685-7354 -- University of Washington School of Medicine
Re: Per terabyte licensing
Duane, I asked our TSM rep this question, and he asked Ron Broucek, the North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader. His response was: just a rumor at this time as we occasionally evaluate pricing strategies to make sure we're delivering the right value in the marketplace. Ron Broucek North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader So if he says it is just a rumor, then how do you know IBM is offering both? Do you have this from a reliable source within IBM? Best Regards, John D. Schneider The Computer Coaching Community, LLC Office: (314) 635-5424 / Toll Free: (866) 796-9226 Cell: (314) 750-8721 Original Message Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing From: Ochs, Duane duane.o...@qg.com Date: Mon, September 28, 2009 9:07 am To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU We are actually looking into the cost difference. From what I understand, IBM is offering both. However, per terabyte licensing eliminates sub-capacity licensing. And it is your entire site. Not just where it works out best. We are in the midst of passport renewals and found an increase due to core type upgrades. Previously we had older xeons using 50 PVUs per core. And the new machines replacing the older ones are either same cores but at xeon 5540 cores which are now 70 PVUs or double the cores. They brought up per TB licensing. Since then sales has sent me two E-mails inquiring total number of hosts, total TSM sites and total library capacity at each. I was hesitant to say the least. It's been about a week and I haven't heard back yet. When I hear more I'll drop a line. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Skylar Thompson Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:02 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Per terabyte licensing We're in that boat too. We have a GPFS cluster we expect to grow into the petabyte range, so unless IBM sets the per-byte cost *really* low we'll get hammered with that licensing scheme. Zoltan Forray/AC/VCU wrote: Or more costly. We have test VM servers with quad-core processors running 15-VM guests. If I started counting by T-Bytes backed-up, it would cost a lot more than 4-CPU's! From: David Longo david.lo...@health-first.org To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 09/25/2009 03:22 PM Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Haven't heard that. My first thought is that it would make licensing a LOT easier to figure out! David Longo Thomas Denier thomas.den...@jeffersonhospital.org 9/25/2009 3:09 PM Within the last few months there was a series of messages on counting processor cores. A couple of the messages stated that TSM is moving to licensing based on terabytes of stored data rather than processor cores. Where can I find more information on this? # This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain private, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity to give such views or opinions. # -- -- Skylar Thompson (skyl...@u.washington.edu) -- Systems Administrator, Genome Sciences Department -- University of Washington, School of Medicine
TSM DP for Oracle (Windows) error
Hello, Anyone had this problem? IBM Tivoli Storage Manager for Databases: Data Protection for Oracle Version 5, Release 5, Level 1.0 (C) Copyright IBM Corporation 1997, 2008. All rights reserved. Data Protection for Oracle Information Version: 5 Release: 5 Level:1 Sublevel: 0 Platform: 32bit DP Oracle Win32 Tivoli Storage Manager Server Information Server Name: DSMSERV Server Address: 10.81.35.29 Communication Method: TCP/IP Session Information Node Name:ORACLE_GRID_HLS DSMI_DIR: C:\Program Files\Common Files\Tivoli\TSM\api DSMI_ORC_CONFIG: c:\Program Files\tivoli\tsm\agentoba\dsm_hls.opt TDPO_OPTFILE: tdpo_hls.opt Compression: TRUE License Information: License file exists and contains valid license data. ANS0237E (RC2033) On dsmInit, the node is not allowed when PASSWORDACCESS=genera te. Dsm_hls.opt: * * Tivoli Storage Manager * * Sample dsm.opt for the Microsoft Windows Backup-Archive Client * * * TCP/IP * commmethod tcpip tcpport 1500 TCPServeraddress 10.81.35.29 nodename ORACLE_GRID_HLS *tracefile c:\program files\tivoli\tsm\agentoba\tdpo.trc *traceflag service passworddir c:\progra~1\tivoli\tsm\agentoba\ COMPression ON PASSWORDACCESS GENERATE Tdpo_hsl.opt: * * IBM Tivoli Storage Manager for Databases * Data Protection for Oracle * * Sample tdpo.opt for the Data Protection for Oracle on Win32 * * * TSM API configuration * DSMI_ORC_CONFIGc:\Progra~1\tivoli\tsm\agentoba\dsm_hls.opt DSMI_LOG c:\Progra~1\tivoli\tsm\agentoba TDPO_NODE ORACLE_GRID_HLS TDPO_PSWDPATH c:\Progra~1\tivoli\tsm\agentoba TDPO_DATE_FMT 1 TDPO_NUM_FMT 1 TDPO_TIME_FMT 1 *TDPO_TRACE_FLAGSorclevel0 orclevel1 orclevel2 *TDPO_TRACE_FILE c:\Program Files\tivoli\tsm\agentoba\tdpo.out * * TSM Server - filespace name * * TDPO_FS default: adsmorc * * TDPO_FSGRID_DB
vmware server backups with vcb and tsm
Just some basic questions on how others are utiling VCB for VMWare servers and TSM 1. Just prod servers or all servers (Test and Dev) ? 2. How many servers is one backing up ? 3. My backup time range anywhere from 20 minutes to 106 minutes (avg 36 minutes 14 servers) Typical throughput ?? 4. Does the output location have enough space for all servers or are they broken apart vcb group 1, back to tsm group 1, delete group1 ... ?? 5. How often does one perform the backups weekly, semi weekly... ?? Also coordinate with file level backups done daily. 6. Dedicted storge pool for VCB backups ? Tim Brown Systems Specialist - Project Leader Central Hudson Gas Electric 284 South Ave Poughkeepsie, NY 12601 Email: tbr...@cenhud.com mailto:tbr...@cenhud.com Phone: 845-486-5643 Fax: 845-486-5921 Cell: 845-235-4255 This message contains confidential information and is only for the intended recipient. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this note and deleting all copies and attachments. Thank you.
Re: Age-old licensing question
Farren, This discussion comes up a few times a year from new and old alike. Here is the link to the PVU table from IBM. It changes regularly. http://www-01.ibm.com/software/lotus/passportadvantage/pvu_licensing_for_customers.html Sub-capacity licensing is available for VMs. However, if all your VMs need to be backed up, you are probably better off licensing all the procs on the ESX server. It most cases it is cheaper than licensing each guests processor entitlement. If you only have a few VMs that require backups sub-capacity may be cheaper. TSM license costs are based on PVU per core multiplied by number of cores per client/server. Also take into account whether you are using TSM standard or enterprise edition. A comparison is here. http://www-142.ibm.com/software/dre/hmc/compare.wss?HMC02=C136879G75391P17 Duane -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Minns, Farren - Chichester Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 4:28 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Age-old licensing question Hi all I know I started this in a reply to my backing up of virtual machines bit thought it best to start a new thread. My simple question is... how do I find out how much licensing costs? :-) I know it's not that simple though. My basic questions are this... 1) do I need to use the PVU calculations to work out how much a standard BA client license will cost or can I just pay for a standard client license? 2) do I use the PVU calculations to back up virtual machines? 3) are standard BA client licenses cpu based (or PVU)? Thanks in advance Farren This email (and any attachment) is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please do not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please tell us by reply and delete all copies on your system. Although this email has been scanned for viruses you should rely on your own virus check as the sender accepts no liability for any damage arising out of any bug or virus infection. Please note that email traffic data may be monitored and that emails may be viewed for security reasons. John Wiley Sons Limited is a private limited company registered in England with registered number 641132. Registered office address: The Atrium, Southern Gate, Chichester, West Sussex, PO19 8SQ.
Re: Age-old licensing question
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this today. I'll pop off and do the maths now :-) Regards Farren -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Ochs, Duane Sent: 28 September 2009 16:28 To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Age-old licensing question Farren, This discussion comes up a few times a year from new and old alike. Here is the link to the PVU table from IBM. It changes regularly. http://www-01.ibm.com/software/lotus/passportadvantage/pvu_licensing_for_customers.html Sub-capacity licensing is available for VMs. However, if all your VMs need to be backed up, you are probably better off licensing all the procs on the ESX server. It most cases it is cheaper than licensing each guests processor entitlement. If you only have a few VMs that require backups sub-capacity may be cheaper. TSM license costs are based on PVU per core multiplied by number of cores per client/server. Also take into account whether you are using TSM standard or enterprise edition. A comparison is here. http://www-142.ibm.com/software/dre/hmc/compare.wss?HMC02=C136879G75391P17 Duane -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Minns, Farren - Chichester Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 4:28 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Age-old licensing question Hi all I know I started this in a reply to my backing up of virtual machines bit thought it best to start a new thread. My simple question is... how do I find out how much licensing costs? :-) I know it's not that simple though. My basic questions are this... 1) do I need to use the PVU calculations to work out how much a standard BA client license will cost or can I just pay for a standard client license? 2) do I use the PVU calculations to back up virtual machines? 3) are standard BA client licenses cpu based (or PVU)? Thanks in advance Farren This email (and any attachment) is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please do not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please tell us by reply and delete all copies on your system. Although this email has been scanned for viruses you should rely on your own virus check as the sender accepts no liability for any damage arising out of any bug or virus infection. Please note that email traffic data may be monitored and that emails may be viewed for security reasons. John Wiley Sons Limited is a private limited company registered in England with registered number 641132. Registered office address: The Atrium, Southern Gate, Chichester, West Sussex, PO19 8SQ. This email (and any attachment) is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please do not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please tell us by reply and delete all copies on your system. Although this email has been scanned for viruses you should rely on your own virus check as the sender accepts no liability for any damage arising out of any bug or virus infection. Please note that email traffic data may be monitored and that emails may be viewed for security reasons. John Wiley Sons Limited is a private limited company registered in England with registered number 641132. Registered office address: The Atrium, Southern Gate, Chichester, West Sussex, PO19 8SQ.
Re: TSM DP for Oracle (Windows) error
In the TDP manual, refer to the tdpo_node description and what it says about passwordaccess generate. Richard Sims
Re: Per terabyte licensing
My Tivoli S/W rep here in the UK is happy to sell by PVU or per TB. It sounds like it's not quite made it over the water yet. Steven Langdale Global Information Services EAME SAN/Storage Planning and Implementation ( Phone : +44 (0)1733 584175 ( Mob: +44 (0)7876 216782 ü Conference: +44 (0)208 609 7400 Code: 331817 + Email: steven.langd...@cat.com John D. Schneider john.schnei...@computercoachingcommunity.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 28/09/2009 15:38 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 28/10/2009 Duane, I asked our TSM rep this question, and he asked Ron Broucek, the North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader. His response was: just a rumor at this time as we occasionally evaluate pricing strategies to make sure we're delivering the right value in the marketplace. Ron Broucek North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader So if he says it is just a rumor, then how do you know IBM is offering both? Do you have this from a reliable source within IBM? Best Regards, John D. Schneider The Computer Coaching Community, LLC Office: (314) 635-5424 / Toll Free: (866) 796-9226 Cell: (314) 750-8721 Original Message Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing From: Ochs, Duane duane.o...@qg.com Date: Mon, September 28, 2009 9:07 am To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU We are actually looking into the cost difference. From what I understand, IBM is offering both. However, per terabyte licensing eliminates sub-capacity licensing. And it is your entire site. Not just where it works out best. We are in the midst of passport renewals and found an increase due to core type upgrades. Previously we had older xeons using 50 PVUs per core. And the new machines replacing the older ones are either same cores but at xeon 5540 cores which are now 70 PVUs or double the cores. They brought up per TB licensing. Since then sales has sent me two E-mails inquiring total number of hosts, total TSM sites and total library capacity at each. I was hesitant to say the least. It's been about a week and I haven't heard back yet. When I hear more I'll drop a line. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Skylar Thompson Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:02 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Per terabyte licensing We're in that boat too. We have a GPFS cluster we expect to grow into the petabyte range, so unless IBM sets the per-byte cost *really* low we'll get hammered with that licensing scheme. Zoltan Forray/AC/VCU wrote: Or more costly. We have test VM servers with quad-core processors running 15-VM guests. If I started counting by T-Bytes backed-up, it would cost a lot more than 4-CPU's! From: David Longo david.lo...@health-first.org To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 09/25/2009 03:22 PM Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Haven't heard that. My first thought is that it would make licensing a LOT easier to figure out! David Longo Thomas Denier thomas.den...@jeffersonhospital.org 9/25/2009 3:09 PM Within the last few months there was a series of messages on counting processor cores. A couple of the messages stated that TSM is moving to licensing based on terabytes of stored data rather than processor cores. Where can I find more information on this? # This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain private, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity to give such views or opinions. # -- -- Skylar Thompson (skyl...@u.washington.edu) -- Systems Administrator, Genome Sciences Department -- University of Washington, School of Medicine
Re: Per terabyte licensing
Really. How much does a TB of storage cost? Kelly Lipp Chief Technical Officer www.storserver.com 719-266-8777 x7105 STORServer solves your data backup challenges. Once and for all. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Langdale Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:02 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing My Tivoli S/W rep here in the UK is happy to sell by PVU or per TB. It sounds like it's not quite made it over the water yet. Steven Langdale Global Information Services EAME SAN/Storage Planning and Implementation ( Phone : +44 (0)1733 584175 ( Mob: +44 (0)7876 216782 ü Conference: +44 (0)208 609 7400 Code: 331817 + Email: steven.langd...@cat.com John D. Schneider john.schnei...@computercoachingcommunity.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 28/09/2009 15:38 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 28/10/2009 Duane, I asked our TSM rep this question, and he asked Ron Broucek, the North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader. His response was: just a rumor at this time as we occasionally evaluate pricing strategies to make sure we're delivering the right value in the marketplace. Ron Broucek North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader So if he says it is just a rumor, then how do you know IBM is offering both? Do you have this from a reliable source within IBM? Best Regards, John D. Schneider The Computer Coaching Community, LLC Office: (314) 635-5424 / Toll Free: (866) 796-9226 Cell: (314) 750-8721 Original Message Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing From: Ochs, Duane duane.o...@qg.com Date: Mon, September 28, 2009 9:07 am To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU We are actually looking into the cost difference. From what I understand, IBM is offering both. However, per terabyte licensing eliminates sub-capacity licensing. And it is your entire site. Not just where it works out best. We are in the midst of passport renewals and found an increase due to core type upgrades. Previously we had older xeons using 50 PVUs per core. And the new machines replacing the older ones are either same cores but at xeon 5540 cores which are now 70 PVUs or double the cores. They brought up per TB licensing. Since then sales has sent me two E-mails inquiring total number of hosts, total TSM sites and total library capacity at each. I was hesitant to say the least. It's been about a week and I haven't heard back yet. When I hear more I'll drop a line. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Skylar Thompson Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:02 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Per terabyte licensing We're in that boat too. We have a GPFS cluster we expect to grow into the petabyte range, so unless IBM sets the per-byte cost *really* low we'll get hammered with that licensing scheme. Zoltan Forray/AC/VCU wrote: Or more costly. We have test VM servers with quad-core processors running 15-VM guests. If I started counting by T-Bytes backed-up, it would cost a lot more than 4-CPU's! From: David Longo david.lo...@health-first.org To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 09/25/2009 03:22 PM Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Haven't heard that. My first thought is that it would make licensing a LOT easier to figure out! David Longo Thomas Denier thomas.den...@jeffersonhospital.org 9/25/2009 3:09 PM Within the last few months there was a series of messages on counting processor cores. A couple of the messages stated that TSM is moving to licensing based on terabytes of stored data rather than processor cores. Where can I find more information on this? # This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain private, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity to give such views or opinions. # -- -- Skylar Thompson (skyl...@u.washington.edu) -- Systems
Re: Per terabyte licensing
He was a bit cagey about the actual cost, but said we should expect approx 20% reduction in overall cost. Not pursued it as yet. Steven Langdale Global Information Services EAME SAN/Storage Planning and Implementation ( Phone : +44 (0)1733 584175 ( Mob: +44 (0)7876 216782 ü Conference: +44 (0)208 609 7400 Code: 331817 + Email: steven.langd...@cat.com Kelly Lipp l...@storserver.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 28/09/2009 19:00 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 28/10/2009 Really. How much does a TB of storage cost? Kelly Lipp Chief Technical Officer www.storserver.com 719-266-8777 x7105 STORServer solves your data backup challenges. Once and for all. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Langdale Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:02 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing My Tivoli S/W rep here in the UK is happy to sell by PVU or per TB. It sounds like it's not quite made it over the water yet. Steven Langdale Global Information Services EAME SAN/Storage Planning and Implementation ( Phone : +44 (0)1733 584175 ( Mob: +44 (0)7876 216782 ü Conference: +44 (0)208 609 7400 Code: 331817 + Email: steven.langd...@cat.com John D. Schneider john.schnei...@computercoachingcommunity.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 28/09/2009 15:38 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 28/10/2009 Duane, I asked our TSM rep this question, and he asked Ron Broucek, the North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader. His response was: just a rumor at this time as we occasionally evaluate pricing strategies to make sure we're delivering the right value in the marketplace. Ron Broucek North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader So if he says it is just a rumor, then how do you know IBM is offering both? Do you have this from a reliable source within IBM? Best Regards, John D. Schneider The Computer Coaching Community, LLC Office: (314) 635-5424 / Toll Free: (866) 796-9226 Cell: (314) 750-8721 Original Message Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing From: Ochs, Duane duane.o...@qg.com Date: Mon, September 28, 2009 9:07 am To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU We are actually looking into the cost difference. From what I understand, IBM is offering both. However, per terabyte licensing eliminates sub-capacity licensing. And it is your entire site. Not just where it works out best. We are in the midst of passport renewals and found an increase due to core type upgrades. Previously we had older xeons using 50 PVUs per core. And the new machines replacing the older ones are either same cores but at xeon 5540 cores which are now 70 PVUs or double the cores. They brought up per TB licensing. Since then sales has sent me two E-mails inquiring total number of hosts, total TSM sites and total library capacity at each. I was hesitant to say the least. It's been about a week and I haven't heard back yet. When I hear more I'll drop a line. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Skylar Thompson Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:02 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Per terabyte licensing We're in that boat too. We have a GPFS cluster we expect to grow into the petabyte range, so unless IBM sets the per-byte cost *really* low we'll get hammered with that licensing scheme. Zoltan Forray/AC/VCU wrote: Or more costly. We have test VM servers with quad-core processors running 15-VM guests. If I started counting by T-Bytes backed-up, it would cost a lot more than 4-CPU's! From: David Longo david.lo...@health-first.org To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 09/25/2009 03:22 PM Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Haven't heard that. My first thought is that it would make licensing a LOT easier to figure out! David Longo Thomas Denier thomas.den...@jeffersonhospital.org 9/25/2009 3:09 PM Within the last few months there was a series of messages on counting processor cores. A couple of the messages stated that TSM is moving to licensing based on terabytes of stored data rather than processor cores. Where can I find more information on this? # This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain private, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy
Re: Per terabyte licensing
And the key to that would be to add the phrase in some cases... No matter what IBM does there will be happy people and unhappy people. While a core based model doesn't make sense to many of us, a per TB model may turn out to make even less sense. To argue on their side, they must find a model that is compatible with the industry and that does not diminish their own cash flow. We need for IBM to continue to enhance the product. They do that by keeping us as customers and by attracting new customers. That balance is a lot harder than one may think. I was fairly vocal about this at a previous Oxford. While we're the loudest of the constituent parties, we also matter the least from a cash flow perspective: new customers actually spend more money (they've already gotten ours). The dance is tricky and sometimes comes down to a they won't really leave (where would they go?) so let's worry about them but not too much. As I own my own business I can understand the complexity they face. It's really hard, though, not to simply say it's their problem. Kelly Lipp Chief Technical Officer www.storserver.com 719-266-8777 x7105 STORServer solves your data backup challenges. Once and for all. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Langdale Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:38 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing He was a bit cagey about the actual cost, but said we should expect approx 20% reduction in overall cost. Not pursued it as yet. Steven Langdale Global Information Services EAME SAN/Storage Planning and Implementation ( Phone : +44 (0)1733 584175 ( Mob: +44 (0)7876 216782 ü Conference: +44 (0)208 609 7400 Code: 331817 + Email: steven.langd...@cat.com Kelly Lipp l...@storserver.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 28/09/2009 19:00 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 28/10/2009 Really. How much does a TB of storage cost? Kelly Lipp Chief Technical Officer www.storserver.com 719-266-8777 x7105 STORServer solves your data backup challenges. Once and for all. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Langdale Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:02 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing My Tivoli S/W rep here in the UK is happy to sell by PVU or per TB. It sounds like it's not quite made it over the water yet. Steven Langdale Global Information Services EAME SAN/Storage Planning and Implementation ( Phone : +44 (0)1733 584175 ( Mob: +44 (0)7876 216782 ü Conference: +44 (0)208 609 7400 Code: 331817 + Email: steven.langd...@cat.com John D. Schneider john.schnei...@computercoachingcommunity.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 28/09/2009 15:38 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 28/10/2009 Duane, I asked our TSM rep this question, and he asked Ron Broucek, the North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader. His response was: just a rumor at this time as we occasionally evaluate pricing strategies to make sure we're delivering the right value in the marketplace. Ron Broucek North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader So if he says it is just a rumor, then how do you know IBM is offering both? Do you have this from a reliable source within IBM? Best Regards, John D. Schneider The Computer Coaching Community, LLC Office: (314) 635-5424 / Toll Free: (866) 796-9226 Cell: (314) 750-8721 Original Message Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing From: Ochs, Duane duane.o...@qg.com Date: Mon, September 28, 2009 9:07 am To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU We are actually looking into the cost difference. From what I understand, IBM is offering both. However, per terabyte licensing eliminates sub-capacity licensing. And it is your entire site. Not just where it works out best. We are in the midst of passport renewals and found an increase due to core type upgrades. Previously we had older xeons using 50 PVUs per core. And the new machines replacing the older ones are either same cores but at xeon 5540 cores which are now 70 PVUs or double the cores. They brought up per TB licensing. Since then sales has sent me two E-mails inquiring total number of hosts, total TSM sites and total library capacity at each. I was hesitant to say the least. It's been about a week and I haven't heard back yet. When I hear more I'll drop a line. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Skylar Thompson Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:02 AM
Re: Per terabyte licensing
I agree fully. However, my primary concern has always been the method used for charging. For instance a client with 4 cores or 8 cores more than likely doesn't bring very much to the improvement of a TSM client that has a 1Gbit connection to the TSM server. At one time I thought it made more sense to charge per TB of retention, of data sent, or of some tiered system. But I have also designed our implementation to make the most of that licensing scheme. Per TB would be a pretty straight forward licensing method. But I'm sure we'd all complain about the amount of static data we were paying for :) I should be receiving a per TB quote for my full installation this week. Should be interesting. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Kelly Lipp Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:05 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Per terabyte licensing And the key to that would be to add the phrase in some cases... No matter what IBM does there will be happy people and unhappy people. While a core based model doesn't make sense to many of us, a per TB model may turn out to make even less sense. To argue on their side, they must find a model that is compatible with the industry and that does not diminish their own cash flow. We need for IBM to continue to enhance the product. They do that by keeping us as customers and by attracting new customers. That balance is a lot harder than one may think. I was fairly vocal about this at a previous Oxford. While we're the loudest of the constituent parties, we also matter the least from a cash flow perspective: new customers actually spend more money (they've already gotten ours). The dance is tricky and sometimes comes down to a they won't really leave (where would they go?) so let's worry about them but not too much. As I own my own business I can understand the complexity they face. It's really hard, though, not to simply say it's their problem. Kelly Lipp Chief Technical Officer www.storserver.com 719-266-8777 x7105 STORServer solves your data backup challenges. Once and for all. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Langdale Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:38 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing He was a bit cagey about the actual cost, but said we should expect approx 20% reduction in overall cost. Not pursued it as yet. Steven Langdale Global Information Services EAME SAN/Storage Planning and Implementation ( Phone : +44 (0)1733 584175 ( Mob: +44 (0)7876 216782 ü Conference: +44 (0)208 609 7400 Code: 331817 + Email: steven.langd...@cat.com Kelly Lipp l...@storserver.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 28/09/2009 19:00 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 28/10/2009 Really. How much does a TB of storage cost? Kelly Lipp Chief Technical Officer www.storserver.com 719-266-8777 x7105 STORServer solves your data backup challenges. Once and for all. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Langdale Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:02 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing My Tivoli S/W rep here in the UK is happy to sell by PVU or per TB. It sounds like it's not quite made it over the water yet. Steven Langdale Global Information Services EAME SAN/Storage Planning and Implementation ( Phone : +44 (0)1733 584175 ( Mob: +44 (0)7876 216782 ü Conference: +44 (0)208 609 7400 Code: 331817 + Email: steven.langd...@cat.com John D. Schneider john.schnei...@computercoachingcommunity.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 28/09/2009 15:38 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 28/10/2009 Duane, I asked our TSM rep this question, and he asked Ron Broucek, the North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader. His response was: just a rumor at this time as we occasionally evaluate pricing strategies to make sure we're delivering the right value in the marketplace. Ron Broucek North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader So if he says it is just a rumor, then how do you know IBM is offering both? Do you have this from a reliable source within IBM? Best Regards, John D. Schneider The Computer Coaching Community, LLC Office: (314) 635-5424 / Toll Free: (866) 796-9226 Cell: (314) 750-8721 Original Message Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing From: Ochs, Duane duane.o...@qg.com Date: Mon, September 28, 2009 9:07 am To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU We are actually looking
RC from dsmc incr
I have a user, a reluctant but still very loud user who claims to have a problem. His procedure is that his Mainframe job scheduler executes a REXX Exec which sshs to a WinNT box where it executes a Windoze script which eventually does a dsmc incr. The Mainframe job gets a return code which is used to determine his next step, the assumption being that the RC comes from TSM. His claim is that 5.4.x clients return a 0 RC for success, as do 6.1.x, but 5.5.x give RC=8 for success. I find nothing in documentation that he should see from TSM the normal 0,4,8 series of RC, but I'd feel better if someone would verify that. I wonder if his RC di9fferences might come from different versions of WinNT. Fred Johanson TSM Administrator University of Chicago 773-702-8464
Re: RC from dsmc incr
Fred, I'm not sure I understand the question. For dsmc (as well as the scheduler), RC 0, 4, and 8 are all treated as successful, with success being qualified as described in the client manual. RC 12 is treated as failed. The exception to the above rules is that for scheduled events where ACTION=COMMAND, an event is treated as successful only when the RC is 0. The client has worked this way since 5.1, and has not changed since. If your user is getting an RC 8, check the client dsmerror.log file for any warning messages (ANSW) that were issued during the course of the operation. Best regards, Andy Andy Raibeck IBM Software Group Tivoli Storage Manager Client Product Development Level 3 Team Lead Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Hartford/i...@ibmus Internet e-mail: stor...@us.ibm.com IBM Tivoli Storage Manager support web page: http://www.ibm.com/software/sysmgmt/products/support/IBMTivoliStorageManager.html The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked. The command line is your friend. Good enough is the enemy of excellence. ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU wrote on 09/28/2009 04:31:08 PM: [image removed] RC from dsmc incr Fred Johanson to: ADSM-L 09/28/2009 04:32 PM Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager I have a user, a reluctant but still very loud user who claims to have a problem. His procedure is that his Mainframe job scheduler executes a REXX Exec which sshs to a WinNT box where it executes a Windoze script which eventually does a dsmc incr. The Mainframe job gets a return code which is used to determine his next step, the assumption being that the RC comes from TSM. His claim is that 5.4.x clients return a 0 RC for success, as do 6. 1.x, but 5.5.x give RC=8 for success. I find nothing in documentation that he should see from TSM the normal 0,4,8 series of RC, but I'd feel better if someone would verify that. I wonder if his RC di9fferences might come from different versions of WinNT. Fred Johanson TSM Administrator University of Chicago 773-702-8464
Re: Per terabyte licensing
My big concern with per-TB pricing is the risk of IBM not proactively dropping their price rate each year. Think back several years as to how much storage you had. Then think forward a few years and predict how much you will have going forward. Now figure out how much your license fees will go up if IBM doesn't proactively drop their per-TB rates. The same is true of per-core licensing, of course, but I don't think it's as dramatic. As Kelly said, any scheme they change to will result in happy and unhappy customers. I've gotten to the point where I almost don't care what scheme they use, so long as they don't keep changing it; and I wish they would provide better tools to help us figure out what we need in the way of licensing. For us, the change is a big pain. If they change the scheme, I only ask that this be the _last_ time they change it. I'm tired of figuring out how the latest _new_ scheme works. ..Paul At 04:05 PM 9/28/2009, Kelly Lipp wrote: And the key to that would be to add the phrase in some cases... No matter what IBM does there will be happy people and unhappy people. While a core based model doesn't make sense to many of us, a per TB model may turn out to make even less sense. To argue on their side, they must find a model that is compatible with the industry and that does not diminish their own cash flow. We need for IBM to continue to enhance the product. They do that by keeping us as customers and by attracting new customers. That balance is a lot harder than one may think. I was fairly vocal about this at a previous Oxford. While we're the loudest of the constituent parties, we also matter the least from a cash flow perspective: new customers actually spend more money (they've already gotten ours). The dance is tricky and sometimes comes down to a they won't really leave (where would they go?) so let's worry about them but not too much. As I own my own business I can understand the complexity they face. It's really hard, though, not to simply say it's their problem. Kelly Lipp Chief Technical Officer www.storserver.com 719-266-8777 x7105 STORServer solves your data backup challenges. Once and for all. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Langdale Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:38 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing He was a bit cagey about the actual cost, but said we should expect approx 20% reduction in overall cost. Not pursued it as yet. Steven Langdale Global Information Services EAME SAN/Storage Planning and Implementation ( Phone : +44 (0)1733 584175 ( Mob: +44 (0)7876 216782 ü Conference: +44 (0)208 609 7400 Code: 331817 + Email: steven.langd...@cat.com Kelly Lipp l...@storserver.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 28/09/2009 19:00 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 28/10/2009 Really. How much does a TB of storage cost? Kelly Lipp Chief Technical Officer www.storserver.com 719-266-8777 x7105 STORServer solves your data backup challenges. Once and for all. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Langdale Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 11:02 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing My Tivoli S/W rep here in the UK is happy to sell by PVU or per TB. It sounds like it's not quite made it over the water yet. Steven Langdale Global Information Services EAME SAN/Storage Planning and Implementation ( Phone : +44 (0)1733 584175 ( Mob: +44 (0)7876 216782 ü Conference: +44 (0)208 609 7400 Code: 331817 + Email: steven.langd...@cat.com John D. Schneider john.schnei...@computercoachingcommunity.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 28/09/2009 15:38 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 28/10/2009 Duane, I asked our TSM rep this question, and he asked Ron Broucek, the North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader. His response was: just a rumor at this time as we occasionally evaluate pricing strategies to make sure we're delivering the right value in the marketplace. Ron Broucek North America Tivoli Storage Software Sales Leader So if he says it is just a rumor, then how do you know IBM is offering both? Do you have this from a reliable source within IBM? Best Regards, John D. Schneider The Computer Coaching Community, LLC Office: (314) 635-5424 / Toll Free: (866) 796-9226 Cell: (314) 750-8721 Original Message Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing From: Ochs, Duane duane.o...@qg.com Date: Mon, September 28, 2009 9:07 am
Re: RC from dsmc incr
Thanks Andy. I know the question wasn't very coherent, but neither was the original complaint.However your response gives me the answer I was looking for. Since he's not using the TSM scheduler, his RCs are consistent: one machine shows 0 where another shows 8. Both succeed, but his scripts need some more work. Fred Johanson TSM Administrator University of Chicago 773-702-8464 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew Raibeck Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:42 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] RC from dsmc incr Fred, I'm not sure I understand the question. For dsmc (as well as the scheduler), RC 0, 4, and 8 are all treated as successful, with success being qualified as described in the client manual. RC 12 is treated as failed. The exception to the above rules is that for scheduled events where ACTION=COMMAND, an event is treated as successful only when the RC is 0. The client has worked this way since 5.1, and has not changed since. If your user is getting an RC 8, check the client dsmerror.log file for any warning messages (ANSW) that were issued during the course of the operation. Best regards, Andy Andy Raibeck IBM Software Group Tivoli Storage Manager Client Product Development Level 3 Team Lead Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Hartford/i...@ibmus Internet e-mail: stor...@us.ibm.com IBM Tivoli Storage Manager support web page: http://www.ibm.com/software/sysmgmt/products/support/IBMTivoliStorageManager.html The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked. The command line is your friend. Good enough is the enemy of excellence. ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU wrote on 09/28/2009 04:31:08 PM: [image removed] RC from dsmc incr Fred Johanson to: ADSM-L 09/28/2009 04:32 PM Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager I have a user, a reluctant but still very loud user who claims to have a problem. His procedure is that his Mainframe job scheduler executes a REXX Exec which sshs to a WinNT box where it executes a Windoze script which eventually does a dsmc incr. The Mainframe job gets a return code which is used to determine his next step, the assumption being that the RC comes from TSM. His claim is that 5.4.x clients return a 0 RC for success, as do 6. 1.x, but 5.5.x give RC=8 for success. I find nothing in documentation that he should see from TSM the normal 0,4,8 series of RC, but I'd feel better if someone would verify that. I wonder if his RC di9fferences might come from different versions of WinNT. Fred Johanson TSM Administrator University of Chicago 773-702-8464
Re: Per terabyte licensing
Kelly, You are right, IBM must build their license model to ensure the profit they expect. We can't blame them for doing this as a business. They can't give their product away for free. But the PVU based licensing model is a huge problem for an environment like ours that has over 2000 clients of all different shapes and kinds. Lots of separate servers, but also VMWare partitions, and AIX LPARs, and NDMP clients, etc. Keeping up with the PVU rules is a huge effort, especially the way IBM did it. In Windows, the OS might tell you that you have 2 processors. But is that a single-core dual processor, or two separate processors. The OS can't tell, but IBM insists there is a difference, because it counts PVUs differently in this case. That is too nit-picky if you ask me, and places too difficult a burden on the customer. There are freeware utilities that will correctly count processors IBM's way, but to run them on 2000 servers is a pain, too. We ended up writing our own scripts to call a freeware tool IBM recommended, then parse the resulting answer to get the details into a summarized format. As if that wasn't enough, the freeware tool crashed about 20 of our servers before we realized it. Boy, was that hard to explain to management! It is also very objectionable to us that they don't have sub-processor licensing for large servers like pSeries 595s. We have a 128 processor p595, with a 2-processor LPAR carved out of it running Oracle. Even if we aren't running Oracle on any of the other LPARs, we have to pay for a 128 processor Oracle license. That is insane, and bad for everybody, including IBM. We also have to pay for 128 processors of regular TSM client licenses, even if we have only allocated half the processors in the p595. These are unfair licensing practices, and just make IBM look greedy. To simplify the license counting problem, we are looking at IBM License Metric Tool, but it is a big software product to install and deploy on 2000 servers, too, just to count TSM licenses. ILMT 7.1 was deeply flawed, and 7.2 just came out, so we are going to take a look at that. From my perspective, a total-TB-under-management model would be very easy on the customer, as long as it was reasonably fair. It would be easy to run 'q occ' on all our TSM servers and pull together the result. You could find out your whole TSM license footprint in 10 minutes. The first time we had to it counting PVUs, it took us two months. Best Regards, John D. Schneider The Computer Coaching Community, LLC Office: (314) 635-5424 / Toll Free: (866) 796-9226 Cell: (314) 750-8721 Original Message Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing From: Kelly Lipp l...@storserver.com Date: Mon, September 28, 2009 3:05 pm To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU And the key to that would be to add the phrase in some cases... No matter what IBM does there will be happy people and unhappy people. While a core based model doesn't make sense to many of us, a per TB model may turn out to make even less sense. To argue on their side, they must find a model that is compatible with the industry and that does not diminish their own cash flow. We need for IBM to continue to enhance the product. They do that by keeping us as customers and by attracting new customers. That balance is a lot harder than one may think. I was fairly vocal about this at a previous Oxford. While we're the loudest of the constituent parties, we also matter the least from a cash flow perspective: new customers actually spend more money (they've already gotten ours). The dance is tricky and sometimes comes down to a they won't really leave (where would they go?) so let's worry about them but not too much. As I own my own business I can understand the complexity they face. It's really hard, though, not to simply say it's their problem. Kelly Lipp Chief Technical Officer www.storserver.com 719-266-8777 x7105 STORServer solves your data backup challenges. Once and for all. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Langdale Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:38 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing He was a bit cagey about the actual cost, but said we should expect approx 20% reduction in overall cost. Not pursued it as yet. Steven Langdale Global Information Services EAME SAN/Storage Planning and Implementation ( Phone : +44 (0)1733 584175 ( Mob: +44 (0)7876 216782 ü Conference: +44 (0)208 609 7400 Code: 331817 + Email: steven.langd...@cat.com Kelly Lipp l...@storserver.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 28/09/2009 19:00 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 28/10/2009 Really. How much does a TB of storage cost? Kelly Lipp Chief Technical Officer
Re: Per terabyte licensing
And remember, too, that the PVU thing contemplated something like a DB2 license. Perhaps you had two or three systems that would run DB2. It did not contemplate something like TSM where EVERY system in the environment would have the software running. Keeping track of a couple of systems and their various processor/core/PVU stuff is relatively simple. Keeping track of that same thing across several hundred (never mind your case!) is very difficult. The one size fits all mentality of Tivoli software clearly missed the mark with TSM. Kelly Lipp Chief Technical Officer www.storserver.com 719-266-8777 x7105 STORServer solves your data backup challenges. Once and for all. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of John D. Schneider Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 4:47 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Kelly, You are right, IBM must build their license model to ensure the profit they expect. We can't blame them for doing this as a business. They can't give their product away for free. But the PVU based licensing model is a huge problem for an environment like ours that has over 2000 clients of all different shapes and kinds. Lots of separate servers, but also VMWare partitions, and AIX LPARs, and NDMP clients, etc. Keeping up with the PVU rules is a huge effort, especially the way IBM did it. In Windows, the OS might tell you that you have 2 processors. But is that a single-core dual processor, or two separate processors. The OS can't tell, but IBM insists there is a difference, because it counts PVUs differently in this case. That is too nit-picky if you ask me, and places too difficult a burden on the customer. There are freeware utilities that will correctly count processors IBM's way, but to run them on 2000 servers is a pain, too. We ended up writing our own scripts to call a freeware tool IBM recommended, then parse the resulting answer to get the details into a summarized format. As if that wasn't enough, the freeware tool crashed about 20 of our servers before we realized it. Boy, was that hard to explain to management! It is also very objectionable to us that they don't have sub-processor licensing for large servers like pSeries 595s. We have a 128 processor p595, with a 2-processor LPAR carved out of it running Oracle. Even if we aren't running Oracle on any of the other LPARs, we have to pay for a 128 processor Oracle license. That is insane, and bad for everybody, including IBM. We also have to pay for 128 processors of regular TSM client licenses, even if we have only allocated half the processors in the p595. These are unfair licensing practices, and just make IBM look greedy. To simplify the license counting problem, we are looking at IBM License Metric Tool, but it is a big software product to install and deploy on 2000 servers, too, just to count TSM licenses. ILMT 7.1 was deeply flawed, and 7.2 just came out, so we are going to take a look at that. From my perspective, a total-TB-under-management model would be very easy on the customer, as long as it was reasonably fair. It would be easy to run 'q occ' on all our TSM servers and pull together the result. You could find out your whole TSM license footprint in 10 minutes. The first time we had to it counting PVUs, it took us two months. Best Regards, John D. Schneider The Computer Coaching Community, LLC Office: (314) 635-5424 / Toll Free: (866) 796-9226 Cell: (314) 750-8721 Original Message Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing From: Kelly Lipp l...@storserver.com Date: Mon, September 28, 2009 3:05 pm To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU And the key to that would be to add the phrase in some cases... No matter what IBM does there will be happy people and unhappy people. While a core based model doesn't make sense to many of us, a per TB model may turn out to make even less sense. To argue on their side, they must find a model that is compatible with the industry and that does not diminish their own cash flow. We need for IBM to continue to enhance the product. They do that by keeping us as customers and by attracting new customers. That balance is a lot harder than one may think. I was fairly vocal about this at a previous Oxford. While we're the loudest of the constituent parties, we also matter the least from a cash flow perspective: new customers actually spend more money (they've already gotten ours). The dance is tricky and sometimes comes down to a they won't really leave (where would they go?) so let's worry about them but not too much. As I own my own business I can understand the complexity they face. It's really hard, though, not to simply say it's their problem. Kelly Lipp Chief Technical Officer www.storserver.com 719-266-8777 x7105 STORServer solves your data backup challenges. Once and for all. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor
Re: Per terabyte licensing
IBM does have a sub-capacity license process. You need to talk to your sales rep to find out the details. Basically, if you are only using 2 cpus for Oracle out of 128 total cpus available, then you only have to pay for 2 DB licenses. Obvioulsy other LPARs are probably servicing other data requirements which will need backing up, but you don't have to pay for the lot if you don't use the lot. regards, Mark Kelly Lipp l...@storserver. COM To Sent by: ADSM: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Dist Stor cc Manager ads...@vm.marist Subject .EDU Re: Per terabyte licensing 29/09/2009 09:48 AM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ads...@vm.marist .EDU And remember, too, that the PVU thing contemplated something like a DB2 license. Perhaps you had two or three systems that would run DB2. It did not contemplate something like TSM where EVERY system in the environment would have the software running. Keeping track of a couple of systems and their various processor/core/PVU stuff is relatively simple. Keeping track of that same thing across several hundred (never mind your case!) is very difficult. The one size fits all mentality of Tivoli software clearly missed the mark with TSM. Kelly Lipp Chief Technical Officer www.storserver.com 719-266-8777 x7105 STORServer solves your data backup challenges. Once and for all. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of John D. Schneider Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 4:47 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Per terabyte licensing Kelly, You are right, IBM must build their license model to ensure the profit they expect. We can't blame them for doing this as a business. They can't give their product away for free. But the PVU based licensing model is a huge problem for an environment like ours that has over 2000 clients of all different shapes and kinds. Lots of separate servers, but also VMWare partitions, and AIX LPARs, and NDMP clients, etc. Keeping up with the PVU rules is a huge effort, especially the way IBM did it. In Windows, the OS might tell you that you have 2 processors. But is that a single-core dual processor, or two separate processors. The OS can't tell, but IBM insists there is a difference, because it counts PVUs differently in this case. That is too nit-picky if you ask me, and places too difficult a burden on the customer. There are freeware utilities that will correctly count processors IBM's way, but to run them on 2000 servers is a pain, too. We ended up writing our own scripts to call a freeware tool IBM recommended, then parse the resulting answer to get the details into a summarized format. As if that wasn't enough, the freeware tool crashed about 20 of our servers before we realized it. Boy, was that hard to explain to management! It is also very objectionable to us that they don't have sub-processor licensing for large servers like pSeries 595s. We have a 128 processor p595, with a 2-processor LPAR carved out of it running Oracle. Even if we aren't running Oracle on any of the other LPARs, we have to pay for a 128 processor Oracle license. That is insane, and bad for everybody, including IBM. We also have to pay for 128 processors of regular TSM client licenses, even if we have only allocated half the processors in the p595. These are unfair licensing practices, and just make IBM look greedy. To simplify the license counting problem, we are looking at IBM License Metric Tool, but it is a big software product to install and deploy on 2000 servers, too, just to count TSM licenses. ILMT 7.1 was deeply flawed, and 7.2
