Re: Off site copy with one drive???
May I try to express an opinion here. Why should we scare the newcomers in TSM world - TSM is not a tool for companies able to spend tens and hundreds thousand dollars. This is high-class product which can provide the best not only for Fortune 500 companies but even for Small and Meduim Enterprises. Of course standard limitations apply - more you invest in your IT infrastructure, more it will pay back. If ADSM/(I)TSM was targeted only to installations able to buy a many-drives libraries why developers spent additional time to have LIBTYPE=MANUAL, mount requests and replies, reclamation stgpools, etc. During the decades IBM showed many times that is targeting mainly high-end markets but cannot behave like mass market does not exist. Example of how they learned this was creation of IBM PC. Another example is the famous old joke about how IT companies will make toasters - IBM will create a toaster producing 20 toasts/day and will plan market for 5-6 such toasters in year :-) IMO this is not true anymore - IBM had to change and definitely have changed. In fact I do agree in some parts with both Etienne and Mark: - TSM can work with standalone drives and autoloaders. I have made some posts on the list about such configurations. If IBM/Tivoli would count my vote it is to improve offsite reclamation with some sort of reclamation stgpool. But even without it currently ITSM is still worth the money and SMEs can buy ITSM Base Edition (no SAN/Library sharing, no DRM, no big libraries) and benefit over full/incrmental/differential backup tools. For example in mass market ITSM is much better than BackupExec and has comparable price. A centure ago the cars were luxury, now they are not. - I completely agree single drive is having less functionality than multi-drive library. However there are a lot of companies needing only the base functionaly and excess one is of no significant benefit to them. Many many others will do themselves a BIG favour if buy more drives (this year we convinced only two such companies, next year maybe more :-) A penny invested even with 1000% profit will return less than the return of a hundred with just 20-30% profit. Each company/organization is specific. Ones prefer more automation and less human interaction while others admit lower investment with little bit more human work. It is just matter of policy and a really good product (I think TSM *is* such a product) can successfully target both types. Some of my posts on this list also were very emotional and sometimes even offensive. I hope they were forgiven. Zlatko Krastev IT Consultant Mark Stapleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02.10.2002 16:26 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Off site copy with one drive??? ... I guess it all comes down to what's more important--the cost of a proper library vs. the ability to dependably make multiple backups of your valuable data. I completely agree with you that a three drive (or at least two drives) library is far more practical with TSM but it is very expensive. In addition, what is the use of buying a 2 or 3 Tbytes library when you need only 200 or 300 Gbytes. You buy a smaller, scaled-down library. I stated earlier that single-drive libraries were pretty much worthless. I should have said that they were pretty much worthless when used with TSM. ...
Re: Off site copy with one drive???
Sorry, I used before some of these softwares and except the fact that they don't use tape-tape copies, they aren't from my point of view better solutions than TSM, even for small companies. What I saw with another software is that each time I was not in office for some times (2 or 3 weeks), when I came back, there had always been a problem which had made the backup stop. With TSM, I can leave the office and not look at it for a month, when I look back, everythings is ok, except for hardware failures. And the point is : as Tivoli did it for a part of the software, why don't they do it for the whole software ? I would like to know what is the use of a disk reclaim storage pool when you have a three drives library. So if they did it for main pools, why don't they make it for copy pools. And why isn't there a possibility to have a next storage pool for a copy pool ? which would allow me to make a backup of my storage pool to disk and then back on a copy tape. What make me angry is that I think that the main functionalities of TSM are exactly what I look for, and only for a few small functionnalities that would probably be easy to add and that wouldn't cause any problem to other users, I can't use it in a lot of cases. And you tell me that I should buy a low level software ? It's a little bit like if I told you that I like Mercedes except for the ash tray which I prefer on a Fiat and you respond me : Buy a Fiat ! but the Fiat has everything I prefer on the Mercedes, except the ash tray ! Etienne GUILLAUMONT e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] RGB Technologie Parc d'Innovation, Batiment PYTHAGORE 11 Rue Jean SAPIDUS 67400 ILLKIRCH Tél : 03 90 40 60 60 Fax : 03 90 40 60 61 I have to agree with Mark in this case. Unless there is some critical functionality that TSM has that nothing else does, using TSM with a single drive library is kind of a square-peg/round-hole solution. There are better solutions for environments of this scale, specifically solutions that don't use tape-tape copies as part of their base functionality. Grandfather-father-son schemed backup utilities would probably be better. Alex Paschal Storage Administrator Freightliner, LLC (503) 745-6850 phone/vmail -Original Message- From: Mark Stapleton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Off site copy with one drive??? From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of GUILLAUMONT Etienne I hope you will excuse me to be so direct but I think that you last answer is stupid, Actually, I won't excuse you, and there's no need to be insulting. did you ever look at the price of a single drive library compared to a three drive library ? Indeed I have. I install and configure them for a living. And I don't talk of the fact that most 3 drives libraries require the advanced library TSM feature which multiplies the price of TSM by 4 ! But I think this is why you talk of a BIG favour, it is because the price is BIG. If you compare the whole solution, you will see that the whole solution has a price multiplied bye 4 or more which makes it unaffordable for most companies. I guess it all comes down to what's more important--the cost of a proper library vs. the ability to dependably make multiple backups of your valuable data. I completely agree with you that a three drive (or at least two drives) library is far more practical with TSM but it is very expensive. In addition, what is the use of buying a 2 or 3 Tbytes library when you need only 200 or 300 Gbytes. You buy a smaller, scaled-down library. I stated earlier that single-drive libraries were pretty much worthless. I should have said that they were pretty much worthless when used with TSM. I saw in this list some people saying that TSM is only for big companies and that if you can't afford a 2 drives library, you should'nt buy TSM. I don't ever recall anyone on this mailing list claiming that TSM is only for big companies. Is TSM expensive? Yes. But if I want to run a high-end computer game, I don't go out a buy a cheap video card, either. I also disagree with that, TSM has some functionalities which make it usefull also for small companies (I had another storage software before and for example, I saw that with TSM, I could reduce the number of tapes to buy, and then to manage by 2 or 3) Indeed it has. I think it wouldn't be a lot of work for Tivoli just to add a few functionnalities which would allow small companies to use it with a single drive or with a small library. And just how do you propose to use a single drive to run space reclamation on copy pool tapes? (This was the original question for this thread.) Copy pool reclamation uses files from the primary tape pool, and you just can't access two tapes at a time with one drive. If you're going to use a single drive, you're either going to have to forgo copy pools, or live with the fact that you can't run reclaims on them
Re: Off site copy with one drive???
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of GUILLAUMONT Etienne I hope you will excuse me to be so direct but I think that you last answer is stupid, Actually, I won't excuse you, and there's no need to be insulting. did you ever look at the price of a single drive library compared to a three drive library ? Indeed I have. I install and configure them for a living. And I don't talk of the fact that most 3 drives libraries require the advanced library TSM feature which multiplies the price of TSM by 4 ! But I think this is why you talk of a BIG favour, it is because the price is BIG. If you compare the whole solution, you will see that the whole solution has a price multiplied bye 4 or more which makes it unaffordable for most companies. I guess it all comes down to what's more important--the cost of a proper library vs. the ability to dependably make multiple backups of your valuable data. I completely agree with you that a three drive (or at least two drives) library is far more practical with TSM but it is very expensive. In addition, what is the use of buying a 2 or 3 Tbytes library when you need only 200 or 300 Gbytes. You buy a smaller, scaled-down library. I stated earlier that single-drive libraries were pretty much worthless. I should have said that they were pretty much worthless when used with TSM. I saw in this list some people saying that TSM is only for big companies and that if you can't afford a 2 drives library, you should'nt buy TSM. I don't ever recall anyone on this mailing list claiming that TSM is only for big companies. Is TSM expensive? Yes. But if I want to run a high-end computer game, I don't go out a buy a cheap video card, either. I also disagree with that, TSM has some functionalities which make it usefull also for small companies (I had another storage software before and for example, I saw that with TSM, I could reduce the number of tapes to buy, and then to manage by 2 or 3) Indeed it has. I think it wouldn't be a lot of work for Tivoli just to add a few functionnalities which would allow small companies to use it with a single drive or with a small library. And just how do you propose to use a single drive to run space reclamation on copy pool tapes? (This was the original question for this thread.) Copy pool reclamation uses files from the primary tape pool, and you just can't access two tapes at a time with one drive. If you're going to use a single drive, you're either going to have to forgo copy pools, or live with the fact that you can't run reclaims on them. (You can just delete copy pool volumes; they'll just get recreated the next time you do a storage pool backup. Don't forget that many companies uses only a single drive on each server and if you talk to them of the price of TSM with advanced library and a 3 drives library, they laugh. Let 'em laugh. If you can't afford a multi-drive library, you just can't afford it. You're just not going to get to use TSM's full functionality. -- Mark Stapleton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Certified TSM consultant Certified AIX system engineer MCSE
Re: Off site copy with one drive???
Hello Mark, One-drive libraries are pretty much worthless False With our add-on SOS-MB (sorry only french) we use this technology. and it works fine (SOS-MB is promoted in France by IBM/Tivoli) We guarantee a day - 1 recovery of the backup server (the worst case) and without the DRM of TSM If we have one drive, we suppose that volumes of datas to backup are not very big The primary storage pool on disk must be big enough Tape drive is only for offsite tapes And the trick is to use a backup strategy with no need for reclaiming offsite tapes. In this way, there is no reclaim at all (and no collocation) which is very practical in little companies with no specialist. Joking with your style : Do yourself a BIG favor. Think about this strategy. (For myself, I know, I have to think about improving my english) By example : 1 - You have 400 Go of datas, a disk of 400 Go and a LTO 3581 2 - First day of use : you do a full copy on tapes and each day after you copy all the new things of the storage pool disk on tapes 3 - At the end of the week (by example) you put the tapes offsite with the database on an other tape 4 - You clear the disk storage pool and delete the same in the database 5 - You take a new set of tapes for the next week and do the same than the previous week 6 - You can rotate on 3 sets, by example I hope it will help Regards Christian Bagard SOS-restore - Aix-en-Provence - France [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.sos-restore.com (in french) - Original Message - From: Mark Stapleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Off site copy with one drive??? From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Etienne Brodeur Is it possible if I have a one drive library to use a copy storage pool for my backups? Yes. I can backup to disk, then backup the diskpool to the copypool. (this way I should have all my data onsite and offsite). Exactly. You backup from diskpool to offsite pool, and then you migrate from diskpool to primary tape pool. How do I then reclaim my copypool volumes? You can't. TSM doesn't support a disk-based reclamation pool for reclamation of offsite tape pools. I can't reclaim to disk like I do with my onsite volumes for some reason (I don't see why not since the DB can track which file is on which onsite tape mount it and copy it to my reclaimpool on disk. Once that is done it can mount a scratch or copypool volume and the offsite volumes would be reclaimed no? One-drive libraries are pretty much worthless. Particularly if you have large-capacity tape volumes, your disk-based reclamation pool needs to be at least 40% of the maximum size of the tape volume. In the case of LTO tapes, that means 80GB of disk space for the reclamation pool. Do yourself a BIG favor. Get a three-drive library. -- Mark Stapleton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Certified TSM consultant Certified AIX system engineer MCSE
Re: Off site copy with one drive???
The only small things I would need to be able to use TSM with a single drive library is to have the ability of having a next storage pool on a copy pool, I must be possible to do as it is already done on a backup storage pool. And the ability of using a disk reclaim storage pool for offsite copy pool reclaim. My solutions would be the following : A backup pool on tape in the library 1 or more copy pools in a vault with only one or two empty tapes in the library. Each day, I backup on tape and make a copy on one of the copy pools, if an offsite tape is to be reclaimed, TSM copies the files in the disk reclaim pool from the backup pool and then switch tapes to write to the copy pool tapes Except the fact that if my drive goes down, I must wait until it is repaired (with a three drives library, you will still have this problem if the whole library goes down), the functionalities would be the same than with two tapes. Except for performances but everyone don't need performances in backup and restore. But everyone needs reliability in backups and TSM is very good for that. I agree with you that if there is no other possibility, it's better to buy and expensive library than having unreliable backups. But TSM requires very few modifications to be fully usable with a single drive library. Don't forget that most other softwares work perfectly with a single drive library, and some of them must probably be as good as TSM or not far from it. Excuse me for having been insulting but each time I hear There's no way to do it it upsets me. (And my english is not that good, I probably could have found a more adequate word than stupid) Etienne GUILLAUMONT e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] RGB Technologie Parc d'Innovation, Batiment PYTHAGORE 11 Rue Jean SAPIDUS 67400 ILLKIRCH Tél : 03 90 40 60 60 Fax : 03 90 40 60 61 Mark StapletonTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] stapleto@BERcc: BEE.COM Subject: Re: Off site copy with one drive??? Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] RIST.EDU 02/10/02 15:26 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of GUILLAUMONT Etienne I hope you will excuse me to be so direct but I think that you last answer is stupid, Actually, I won't excuse you, and there's no need to be insulting. did you ever look at the price of a single drive library compared to a three drive library ? Indeed I have. I install and configure them for a living. And I don't talk of the fact that most 3 drives libraries require the advanced library TSM feature which multiplies the price of TSM by 4 ! But I think this is why you talk of a BIG favour, it is because the price is BIG. If you compare the whole solution, you will see that the whole solution has a price multiplied bye 4 or more which makes it unaffordable for most companies. I guess it all comes down to what's
Re: Off site copy with one drive???
Yes, you CAN DO off site reclaimation with one drive. The way it should be set up is in the tsm books (online version) or one of the redbooks. I set it ones up, and it work. Slowly but it work. The compagny I work for has divert libraries with 6 to 10 drives (and still growing), but some of the clients I have to do locally. So I went and have a look at TSM and working with one drive. Short story, IT CAN BE DONE. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: GUILLAUMONT Etienne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Verzonden: woensdag 2 oktober 2002 16:09 Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Onderwerp: Re: Off site copy with one drive??? The only small things I would need to be able to use TSM with a single drive library is to have the ability of having a next storage pool on a copy pool, I must be possible to do as it is already done on a backup storage pool. And the ability of using a disk reclaim storage pool for offsite copy pool reclaim. My solutions would be the following : A backup pool on tape in the library 1 or more copy pools in a vault with only one or two empty tapes in the library. Each day, I backup on tape and make a copy on one of the copy pools, if an offsite tape is to be reclaimed, TSM copies the files in the disk reclaim pool from the backup pool and then switch tapes to write to the copy pool tapes Except the fact that if my drive goes down, I must wait until it is repaired (with a three drives library, you will still have this problem if the whole library goes down), the functionalities would be the same than with two tapes. Except for performances but everyone don't need performances in backup and restore. But everyone needs reliability in backups and TSM is very good for that. I agree with you that if there is no other possibility, it's better to buy and expensive library than having unreliable backups. But TSM requires very few modifications to be fully usable with a single drive library. Don't forget that most other softwares work perfectly with a single drive library, and some of them must probably be as good as TSM or not far from it. Excuse me for having been insulting but each time I hear There's no way to do it it upsets me. (And my english is not that good, I probably could have found a more adequate word than stupid) Etienne GUILLAUMONT e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] RGB Technologie Parc d'Innovation, Batiment PYTHAGORE 11 Rue Jean SAPIDUS 67400 ILLKIRCH Tél : 03 90 40 60 60 Fax : 03 90 40 60 61 Mark StapletonTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] stapleto@BERcc: BEE.COM Subject: Re: Off site copy with one drive??? Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] RIST.EDU 02/10/02 15:26 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of GUILLAUMONT Etienne I hope you will excuse me to be so direct but I think that you last answer is stupid, Actually, I won't excuse you, and there's no need to be insulting. did you ever look at the price of a single drive library compared to a three drive library ? Indeed I have. I install and configure them for a living. And I don't talk of the fact that most 3 drives libraries require the advanced library TSM feature which multiplies the price of TSM by 4 ! But I think this is why you talk of a BIG favour, it is because the price is BIG. If you compare the whole solution, you will see that the whole solution has a price multiplied bye 4 or more which makes it unaffordable for most companies. I guess it all comes down to what's more important--the cost of a proper library vs. the ability to dependably make multiple backups of your valuable data. I completely agree with you that a three drive (or at least two drives) library is far more practical with TSM but it is very expensive. In addition, what is the use of buying a 2 or 3 Tbytes library when you need only 200 or 300 Gbytes. You buy a smaller, scaled-down library. I stated earlier that single-drive libraries were pretty much worthless. I should have said that they were pretty much worthless when used with TSM. I saw in this list some people saying that TSM is only for big companies and that if you can't afford a 2 drives library, you should'nt buy TSM. I don't ever recall anyone on this mailing list claiming that TSM is only for big companies. Is TSM expensive? Yes. But if I want to run a high-end computer game, I don't go out a buy a cheap video card, either. I also disagree with that, TSM has some functionalities which make it usefull also for small companies (I had another storage software before and for example, I saw that with TSM, I
Re: Off site copy with one drive???
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Karel Bos Yes, you CAN DO off site reclaimation with one drive. The way it should be set up is in the tsm books (online version) or one of the redbooks. I set it ones up, and it work. Slowly but it work. The compagny I work for has divert libraries with 6 to 10 drives (and still growing), but some of the clients I have to do locally. So I went and have a look at TSM and working with one drive. Short story, IT CAN BE DONE. Please read the thread more carefully. You can run reclamation on primary tape pools, but not on copy tape pools (this thread's original question). -- Mark Stapleton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Certified TSM consultant Certified AIX system engineer MCSE
Re: Off site copy with one drive???
Hi, Sorry. An error in my last post ! It's not : 4 - You clear the disk storage pool and delete the same in the database but of course : 4 - You clear the copy storage pool and delete the same in the database in other words the knowledge that TSM has about the offsite tapes. Sorry again Regards
Re: Off site copy with one drive???
I have to agree with Mark in this case. Unless there is some critical functionality that TSM has that nothing else does, using TSM with a single drive library is kind of a square-peg/round-hole solution. There are better solutions for environments of this scale, specifically solutions that don't use tape-tape copies as part of their base functionality. Grandfather-father-son schemed backup utilities would probably be better. Alex Paschal Storage Administrator Freightliner, LLC (503) 745-6850 phone/vmail -Original Message- From: Mark Stapleton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Off site copy with one drive??? From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of GUILLAUMONT Etienne I hope you will excuse me to be so direct but I think that you last answer is stupid, Actually, I won't excuse you, and there's no need to be insulting. did you ever look at the price of a single drive library compared to a three drive library ? Indeed I have. I install and configure them for a living. And I don't talk of the fact that most 3 drives libraries require the advanced library TSM feature which multiplies the price of TSM by 4 ! But I think this is why you talk of a BIG favour, it is because the price is BIG. If you compare the whole solution, you will see that the whole solution has a price multiplied bye 4 or more which makes it unaffordable for most companies. I guess it all comes down to what's more important--the cost of a proper library vs. the ability to dependably make multiple backups of your valuable data. I completely agree with you that a three drive (or at least two drives) library is far more practical with TSM but it is very expensive. In addition, what is the use of buying a 2 or 3 Tbytes library when you need only 200 or 300 Gbytes. You buy a smaller, scaled-down library. I stated earlier that single-drive libraries were pretty much worthless. I should have said that they were pretty much worthless when used with TSM. I saw in this list some people saying that TSM is only for big companies and that if you can't afford a 2 drives library, you should'nt buy TSM. I don't ever recall anyone on this mailing list claiming that TSM is only for big companies. Is TSM expensive? Yes. But if I want to run a high-end computer game, I don't go out a buy a cheap video card, either. I also disagree with that, TSM has some functionalities which make it usefull also for small companies (I had another storage software before and for example, I saw that with TSM, I could reduce the number of tapes to buy, and then to manage by 2 or 3) Indeed it has. I think it wouldn't be a lot of work for Tivoli just to add a few functionnalities which would allow small companies to use it with a single drive or with a small library. And just how do you propose to use a single drive to run space reclamation on copy pool tapes? (This was the original question for this thread.) Copy pool reclamation uses files from the primary tape pool, and you just can't access two tapes at a time with one drive. If you're going to use a single drive, you're either going to have to forgo copy pools, or live with the fact that you can't run reclaims on them. (You can just delete copy pool volumes; they'll just get recreated the next time you do a storage pool backup. Don't forget that many companies uses only a single drive on each server and if you talk to them of the price of TSM with advanced library and a 3 drives library, they laugh. Let 'em laugh. If you can't afford a multi-drive library, you just can't afford it. You're just not going to get to use TSM's full functionality. -- Mark Stapleton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Certified TSM consultant Certified AIX system engineer MCSE
Re: Off site copy with one drive???
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Etienne Brodeur Is it possible if I have a one drive library to use a copy storage pool for my backups? Yes. I can backup to disk, then backup the diskpool to the copypool. (this way I should have all my data onsite and offsite). Exactly. You backup from diskpool to offsite pool, and then you migrate from diskpool to primary tape pool. How do I then reclaim my copypool volumes? You can't. TSM doesn't support a disk-based reclamation pool for reclamation of offsite tape pools. I can't reclaim to disk like I do with my onsite volumes for some reason (I don't see why not since the DB can track which file is on which onsite tape mount it and copy it to my reclaimpool on disk. Once that is done it can mount a scratch or copypool volume and the offsite volumes would be reclaimed no? One-drive libraries are pretty much worthless. Particularly if you have large-capacity tape volumes, your disk-based reclamation pool needs to be at least 40% of the maximum size of the tape volume. In the case of LTO tapes, that means 80GB of disk space for the reclamation pool. Do yourself a BIG favor. Get a three-drive library. -- Mark Stapleton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Certified TSM consultant Certified AIX system engineer MCSE
Re: Off site copy with one drive???
I hope you will excuse me to be so direct but I think that you last answer is stupid, did you ever look at the price of a single drive library compared to a three drive library ? And I don't talk of the fact that most 3 drives libraries require the advanced library TSM feature which multiplies the price of TSM by 4 ! But I think this is why you talk of a BIG favour, it is because the price is BIG. If you compare the whole solution, you will see that the whole solution has a price multiplied bye 4 or more which makes it unaffordable for most companies. I completely agree with you that a three drive (or at least two drives) library is far more practical with TSM but it is very expensive. In addition, what is the use of buying a 2 or 3 Tbytes library when you need only 200 or 300 Gbytes. I saw in this list some people saying that TSM is only for big companies and that if you can't afford a 2 drives library, you should'nt buy TSM. I also disagree with that, TSM has some functionalities which make it usefull also for small companies (I had another storage software before and for example, I saw that with TSM, I could reduce the number of tapes to buy, and then to manage by 2 or 3) I think it wouldn't be a lot of work for Tivoli just to add a few functionnalities which would allow small companies to use it with a single drive or with a small library. Don't forget that many companies uses only a single drive on each server and if you talk to them of the price of TSM with advanced library and a 3 drives library, they laugh. Anyway, the cheapest configuration which I use without buying a BIG library and which is practical with TSM is to add an external drive which I use for the copy pool. You just need to have a drive which can contain at least the amount of data you backup each day. It is not a real problem that you have to change the copypool tapes each day as it is what everybody make usually, even with a library. The only thing which is a bit annoying is that I still didn't find a best way than creating a script which set all the copypool tapes to writeonly except the tape which is intended to be used. And I have to modify the script each time I change a tape which is full. But I must admit I still didn't understand very well how TSM manages the use of a single external drive. Sometimes, I can put any tape and everything is ok, and some other times, I put in an empty tape and TSM asks me for another. This is why I had to create this script. But I still didn't spend the time I should have to solve this problem. Etienne GUILLAUMONT e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] RGB Technologie Parc d'Innovation, Batiment PYTHAGORE 11 Rue Jean SAPIDUS 67400 ILLKIRCH Tél : 03 90 40 60 60 Fax : 03 90 40 60 61 Mark StapletonTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] stapleto@BERcc: BEE.COM Subject: Re: Off site copy with one drive??? Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] RIST.EDU 01/10/02 13:19 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager
Re: Off site copy with one drive???
Bonjour Etienne, Je viens de lire ton message sur la liste ADSM/TSM a propos de l'utilisation d'une unite de tape avec TSM. Je n'ai pas tres bien compris ta solution au probleme. Puisque je suis francophone (et que j'imagine que tu l'es egalement) je me demandais si tu pouvais me l'expliquer rapidement SVP? Mon probleme est que sans deuxiememe unite de tape dans ma librarie je ne peus pas reclamer mes volumes de copypool. Je peu faire un backup STG de mon diskpool sur un copypool, mais les tapes ne seront jamais reclames. Donc sa coute cher de tapes!! Merci de ton aide, Etienne Brodeur [EMAIL PROTECTED] Serti Informatique Inc. Anjou, QC http://www.serti.com I hope you will excuse me to be so direct but I think that you last answer is stupid, did you ever look at the price of a single drive library compared to a three drive library ? And I don't talk of the fact that most 3 drives libraries require the advanced library TSM feature which multiplies the price of TSM by 4 ! But I think this is why you talk of a BIG favour, it is because the price is BIG. If you compare the whole solution, you will see that the whole solution has a price multiplied bye 4 or more which makes it unaffordable for most companies. I completely agree with you that a three drive (or at least two drives) library is far more practical with TSM but it is very expensive. In addition, what is the use of buying a 2 or 3 Tbytes library when you need only 200 or 300 Gbytes. I saw in this list some people saying that TSM is only for big companies and that if you can't afford a 2 drives library, you should'nt buy TSM. I also disagree with that, TSM has some functionalities which make it usefull also for small companies (I had another storage software before and for example, I saw that with TSM, I could reduce the number of tapes to buy, and then to manage by 2 or 3) I think it wouldn't be a lot of work for Tivoli just to add a few functionnalities which would allow small companies to use it with a single drive or with a small library. Don't forget that many companies uses only a single drive on each server and if you talk to them of the price of TSM with advanced library and a 3 drives library, they laugh. Anyway, the cheapest configuration which I use without buying a BIG library and which is practical with TSM is to add an external drive which I use for the copy pool. You just need to have a drive which can contain at least the amount of data you backup each day. It is not a real problem that you have to change the copypool tapes each day as it is what everybody make usually, even with a library. The only thing which is a bit annoying is that I still didn't find a best way than creating a script which set all the copypool tapes to writeonly except the tape which is intended to be used. And I have to modify the script each time I change a tape which is full. But I must admit I still didn't understand very well how TSM manages the use of a single external drive. Sometimes, I can put any tape and everything is ok, and some other times, I put in an empty tape and TSM asks me for another. This is why I had to create this script. But I still didn't spend the time I should have to solve this problem. Etienne GUILLAUMONT e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] RGB Technologie Parc d'Innovation, Batiment PYTHAGORE 11 Rue Jean SAPIDUS 67400 ILLKIRCH Tél : 03 90 40 60 60 Fax : 03 90 40 60 61 Mark StapletonTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] stapleto@BERcc: BEE.COM Subject: Re: Off site copy with one drive??? Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] RIST.EDU 01/10/02 13:19 Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Etienne Brodeur Is it possible if I have a one drive library to use a copy storage pool for my backups? Yes. I can backup to disk, then backup the diskpool to the copypool. (this way I should have all my data onsite and offsite). Exactly. You backup from diskpool to offsite pool, and then you migrate from diskpool to primary tape pool. How do I then reclaim my copypool volumes? You can't. TSM doesn't support a disk-based reclamation pool for reclamation of offsite tape pools. I can't reclaim to disk like I do with my onsite volumes for some reason (I don't see why not since the DB can track which file is on which onsite tape mount it and copy it to my reclaimpool on disk. Once that is done it can mount a scratch or copypool volume and the offsite volumes would be reclaimed no? One-drive libraries are pretty much worthless. Particularly if you have
Off site copy with one drive???
Is it possible if I have a one drive library to use a copy storage pool for my backups? I can backup to disk, then backup the diskpool to the copypool. (this way I should have all my data onsite and offsite). How do I then reclaim my copypool volumes? I can't reclaim to disk like I do with my onsite volumes for some reason (I don't see why not since the DB can track which file is on which onsite tape mount it and copy it to my reclaimpool on disk. Once that is done it can mount a scratch or copypool volume and the offsite volumes would be reclaimed no? Help please! Thanks Etienne Brodeur
