Re: Backing up virtual machines
Hi Buddy, I'm afraid I have to disagree somewhat. You've only described the fullvm backup option, and that's not what most people use, at least on Windows. The TSM default behaviour is actually to back up individual files from each guest (windows) to each node set up for that guest. Doing a restore only requires a guest to have TSM installed if you *want* to restore there. You could alternatively use the usual restore asnode (grant proxy) stuff, if you prefer - and that's what most of my VCB customers do. Hope that clarifies things a bit. Craig McAllister 2009/9/25 Buddy Howeth bhow...@pcoastp.com When you backup a VM, you are getting a snapshot of the computer you are saving, if you later need to restore a specific file on that VM and you didn't install the client then you only have the snapshot and you must restore the entire snapshot, convert it back into a VM and then copy out what you need.
Re: Backing up virtual machines
Every time we snapshot a VM, we have the option of doing the entire farm or just a single vm. When we do a single VM, we are getting the entire machine, not just what changed. We use the B/A client to get the individual file level changes. If we dump the entire farm, we get snapshots for every machine in the VM farm and the snapshots are the entire machine. The is from our VM guy. Buddy Howeth Computer Operations Specialist Information Systems Pacific Coast Producers Corporate Offices 631 N. Cluff Ave Lodi, CA 95240-0756 (209) 367-8800 - Main# (209) 367-6288 - Computer Room (209) 366-6240 - Alpha Pager Craig McAllister cra...@gmail.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 09/30/2009 06:07 AM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Backing up virtual machines Hi Buddy, I'm afraid I have to disagree somewhat. You've only described the fullvm backup option, and that's not what most people use, at least on Windows. The TSM default behaviour is actually to back up individual files from each guest (windows) to each node set up for that guest. Doing a restore only requires a guest to have TSM installed if you *want* to restore there. You could alternatively use the usual restore asnode (grant proxy) stuff, if you prefer - and that's what most of my VCB customers do. Hope that clarifies things a bit. Craig McAllister 2009/9/25 Buddy Howeth bhow...@pcoastp.com When you backup a VM, you are getting a snapshot of the computer you are saving, if you later need to restore a specific file on that VM and you didn't install the client then you only have the snapshot and you must restore the entire snapshot, convert it back into a VM and then copy out what you need. _ Scanned by IBM Email Security Management Services powered by MessageLabs. For more information please visit http://www.ers.ibm.com _
Re: Backing up virtual machines
Actually the response from me below was to someone that didn't want to use the B/A client to get the individual file level changes. We back up VMs both ways. We had our first DR test using VMs last Feb in Boulder, CO at IBM and everything went without a problem. We use the VM snapshots for bare metal restores and the B/A client to bring the VM back up to date with the individual file level changes. VMs are snapshot about once a month. Buddy Howeth Computer Operations Specialist Information Systems Pacific Coast Producers Corporate Offices 631 N. Cluff Ave Lodi, CA 95240-0756 (209) 367-8800 - Main# (209) 367-6288 - Computer Room (209) 366-6240 - Alpha Pager Craig McAllister cra...@gmail.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 09/30/2009 06:07 AM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Backing up virtual machines Hi Buddy, I'm afraid I have to disagree somewhat. You've only described the fullvm backup option, and that's not what most people use, at least on Windows. The TSM default behaviour is actually to back up individual files from each guest (windows) to each node set up for that guest. Doing a restore only requires a guest to have TSM installed if you *want* to restore there. You could alternatively use the usual restore asnode (grant proxy) stuff, if you prefer - and that's what most of my VCB customers do. Hope that clarifies things a bit. Craig McAllister 2009/9/25 Buddy Howeth bhow...@pcoastp.com When you backup a VM, you are getting a snapshot of the computer you are saving, if you later need to restore a specific file on that VM and you didn't install the client then you only have the snapshot and you must restore the entire snapshot, convert it back into a VM and then copy out what you need. _ Scanned by IBM Email Security Management Services powered by MessageLabs. For more information please visit http://www.ers.ibm.com _
Re: Backing up virtual machines
Hi all Can someone point me to a licensing document as I'm trying to get some costings for backing up clients either individual, via VM, both etc. I seem to be finding bits and pieces of information but I need something a bit more self-contained. Regards Farren This email (and any attachment) is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please do not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please tell us by reply and delete all copies on your system. Although this email has been scanned for viruses you should rely on your own virus check as the sender accepts no liability for any damage arising out of any bug or virus infection. Please note that email traffic data may be monitored and that emails may be viewed for security reasons. John Wiley Sons Limited is a private limited company registered in England with registered number 641132. Registered office address: The Atrium, Southern Gate, Chichester, West Sussex, PO19 8SQ.
Re: Backing up virtual machines
I've used the links off IBM's TSM page: http://www-01.ibm.com/software/tivoli/products/storage-mgr/ You can get the retail license costs and there's a link to the PVU calculator. the PVU calculator also includes info for how virtualization is licensed. Minns, Farren - Chichester wrote: Hi all Can someone point me to a licensing document as I'm trying to get some costings for backing up clients either individual, via VM, both etc. I seem to be finding bits and pieces of information but I need something a bit more self-contained. Regards Farren This email (and any attachment) is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please do not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please tell us by reply and delete all copies on your system. Although this email has been scanned for viruses you should rely on your own virus check as the sender accepts no liability for any damage arising out of any bug or virus infection. Please note that email traffic data may be monitored and that emails may be viewed for security reasons. John Wiley Sons Limited is a private limited company registered in England with registered number 641132. Registered office address: The Atrium, Southern Gate, Chichester, West Sussex, PO19 8SQ. -- -- Skylar Thompson (skyl...@u.washington.edu) -- Genome Sciences Department, System Administrator -- Foege Building S048, (206)-685-7354 -- University of Washington School of Medicine
Re: Backing up virtual machines
Download the 5.4-5.5 Technical Guide redbook SG24-7447 from www.redbooks.ibm.com. Read Chap. 24, which covers the features up through the 5.5 client. The 6.1 client adds direct support for fullvm backups. W On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Minns, Farren - Chichester fmi...@wiley.com wrote: Hi all I have been asked to look into the backing up of virtual machines with a view to lowering the number of TSM client licenses we require. Can someone point me in the right direction of documentation regarding working with TSM and virtual machines as I'm not even sure what's possible. From what I gather, there is a plugin that allows the direct backing up of the ESX side of things? Thanks in advance for any help/advice you can provide. Regards Farren -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew Raibeck Sent: 08 September 2009 16:15 To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Mac Client Still being severed. Why? One thing to do: start a backup, then use the Admin client to monitor the client activity (use the QUERY SESSION command). Watch the run state, bytes sent, and bytes received... how many sessions do you see, and what is the activity pattern? What do you see on the client side? Are there errors in the schedule or error logs? Also, what is the history of this problem on that client? Did it ever work correctly? If so, when did it stop working, and what changes were made around that timeframe? Regards, Andy Andy Raibeck IBM Software Group Tivoli Storage Manager Client Product Development Level 3 Team Lead Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Hartford/i...@ibmus Internet e-mail: stor...@us.ibm.com IBM Tivoli Storage Manager support web page: http://www.ibm.com/software/sysmgmt/products/support/IBMTivoliStorageManager.html The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked. The command line is your friend. Good enough is the enemy of excellence. ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU wrote on 09/08/2009 11:01:19 AM: [image removed] Re: Mac Client Still being severed. Why? Minns, Farren - Chichester to: ADSM-L 09/08/2009 11:02 AM Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager Hi I have been logging onto the server as root and running an incremental backup. It seems to run ok, checking files, backing them up if necessary then suddenly just says ANR0480W Session 21409 for node CHXSERVE03 (Mac) terminated - connection with client severed Regards Farren -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Remco Post Sent: 08 September 2009 15:52 To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Mac Client Still being severed. Why? On 8 sep 2009, at 16:37, Minns, Farren - Chichester wrote: Hi all Running TSM Server 5.5.2.0 on Solaris and having a problem with just one of our Mac Clients. The Mac Client is running TSM Client 5.4.3.0 (the OS is version 10.4.11). My problem is that both scheduled and manual backups fail after approx an hour (running a few more tests to see if it's exactly an hour) with the message ANR0480W Session 21409 for node CHXSERVE03 (Mac) terminated - connection with client severed. I had read a few things saying that perhaps I was running two schedulers which I'm sure I'm not (at least, I don't think so), and even if I would still be able to run a manual backup during the day when schedules do not run. Does anyone have any ideas? do you have logfiles? when you run dsmc i on the mac in a terminal, what happens? This being a Mac, it probably has about 250.000 to more than 1 000 000 files just in / Many thanks as always. Farren Minns John Wiley Sons -- Met vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Remco Post This email (and any attachment) is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please do not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please tell us by reply and delete all copies on your system. Although this email has been scanned for viruses you should rely on your own virus check as the sender accepts no liability for any damage arising out of any bug or virus infection. Please note that email traffic data may be monitored and that emails may be viewed for security reasons. John Wiley Sons Limited is a private limited company registered in England with registered number 641132. Registered office address: The Atrium, Southern Gate, Chichester, West Sussex, PO19
Re: Backing up virtual machines
IBM has a licensing guide for VMware: ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/passportadvantage/SubCapacity/Scenarios_VMware.pdf It appears that you license based on the lower of the number of virtual CPUs provided to your VMs, or the number of physical CPUs in the server. Depending on how you have your VMs setup you might not save much on licensing. Minns, Farren - Chichester wrote: Hi all I have been asked to look into the backing up of virtual machines with a view to lowering the number of TSM client licenses we require. Can someone point me in the right direction of documentation regarding working with TSM and virtual machines as I'm not even sure what's possible. From what I gather, there is a plugin that allows the direct backing up of the ESX side of things? Thanks in advance for any help/advice you can provide. Regards Farren -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew Raibeck Sent: 08 September 2009 16:15 To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Mac Client Still being severed. Why? One thing to do: start a backup, then use the Admin client to monitor the client activity (use the QUERY SESSION command). Watch the run state, bytes sent, and bytes received... how many sessions do you see, and what is the activity pattern? What do you see on the client side? Are there errors in the schedule or error logs? Also, what is the history of this problem on that client? Did it ever work correctly? If so, when did it stop working, and what changes were made around that timeframe? Regards, Andy Andy Raibeck IBM Software Group Tivoli Storage Manager Client Product Development Level 3 Team Lead Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Hartford/i...@ibmus Internet e-mail: stor...@us.ibm.com IBM Tivoli Storage Manager support web page: http://www.ibm.com/software/sysmgmt/products/support/IBMTivoliStorageManager.html The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked. The command line is your friend. Good enough is the enemy of excellence. ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU wrote on 09/08/2009 11:01:19 AM: [image removed] Re: Mac Client Still being severed. Why? Minns, Farren - Chichester to: ADSM-L 09/08/2009 11:02 AM Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager Hi I have been logging onto the server as root and running an incremental backup. It seems to run ok, checking files, backing them up if necessary then suddenly just says ANR0480W Session 21409 for node CHXSERVE03 (Mac) terminated - connection with client severed Regards Farren -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Remco Post Sent: 08 September 2009 15:52 To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Mac Client Still being severed. Why? On 8 sep 2009, at 16:37, Minns, Farren - Chichester wrote: Hi all Running TSM Server 5.5.2.0 on Solaris and having a problem with just one of our Mac Clients. The Mac Client is running TSM Client 5.4.3.0 (the OS is version 10.4.11). My problem is that both scheduled and manual backups fail after approx an hour (running a few more tests to see if it's exactly an hour) with the message ANR0480W Session 21409 for node CHXSERVE03 (Mac) terminated - connection with client severed. I had read a few things saying that perhaps I was running two schedulers which I'm sure I'm not (at least, I don't think so), and even if I would still be able to run a manual backup during the day when schedules do not run. Does anyone have any ideas? do you have logfiles? when you run dsmc i on the mac in a terminal, what happens? This being a Mac, it probably has about 250.000 to more than 1 000 000 files just in / Many thanks as always. Farren Minns John Wiley Sons -- Met vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Remco Post This email (and any attachment) is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please do not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please tell us by reply and delete all copies on your system. Although this email has been scanned for viruses you should rely on your own virus check as the sender accepts no liability for any damage arising out of any bug or virus infection. Please note that email traffic data may be monitored and that emails may be viewed for security reasons. John Wiley Sons Limited is a private limited company registered in England with registered number 641132. Registered office address: The Atrium, Southern Gate, Chichester, West Sussex, PO19 8SQ.
Re: Backing up virtual machines
If you backup a V.M., you still need to install the windows client on each VM in order to get the file updates so there are no savings on licenses. We have about 20 VMs now which are backed up using VCB (Virtual Consolidated Backup). Buddy Howeth Computer Operations Specialist Information Systems Pacific Coast Producers Corporate Offices 631 N. Cluff Ave Lodi, CA 95240-0756 (209) 367-8800 - Main# (209) 367-6288 - Computer Room (209) 366-6240 - Alpha Pager Minns, Farren - Chichester fmi...@wiley.com Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 09/25/2009 05:59 AM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject [ADSM-L] Backing up virtual machines Hi all I have been asked to look into the backing up of virtual machines with a view to lowering the number of TSM client licenses we require. Can someone point me in the right direction of documentation regarding working with TSM and virtual machines as I'm not even sure what's possible. From what I gather, there is a plugin that allows the direct backing up of the ESX side of things? Thanks in advance for any help/advice you can provide. Regards Farren -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew Raibeck Sent: 08 September 2009 16:15 To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Mac Client Still being severed. Why? One thing to do: start a backup, then use the Admin client to monitor the client activity (use the QUERY SESSION command). Watch the run state, bytes sent, and bytes received... how many sessions do you see, and what is the activity pattern? What do you see on the client side? Are there errors in the schedule or error logs? Also, what is the history of this problem on that client? Did it ever work correctly? If so, when did it stop working, and what changes were made around that timeframe? Regards, Andy Andy Raibeck IBM Software Group Tivoli Storage Manager Client Product Development Level 3 Team Lead Internal Notes e-mail: Andrew Raibeck/Hartford/i...@ibmus Internet e-mail: stor...@us.ibm.com IBM Tivoli Storage Manager support web page: http://www.ibm.com/software/sysmgmt/products/support/IBMTivoliStorageManager.html The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked. The command line is your friend. Good enough is the enemy of excellence. ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU wrote on 09/08/2009 11:01:19 AM: [image removed] Re: Mac Client Still being severed. Why? Minns, Farren - Chichester to: ADSM-L 09/08/2009 11:02 AM Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager Hi I have been logging onto the server as root and running an incremental backup. It seems to run ok, checking files, backing them up if necessary then suddenly just says ANR0480W Session 21409 for node CHXSERVE03 (Mac) terminated - connection with client severed Regards Farren -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Remco Post Sent: 08 September 2009 15:52 To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Mac Client Still being severed. Why? On 8 sep 2009, at 16:37, Minns, Farren - Chichester wrote: Hi all Running TSM Server 5.5.2.0 on Solaris and having a problem with just one of our Mac Clients. The Mac Client is running TSM Client 5.4.3.0 (the OS is version 10.4.11). My problem is that both scheduled and manual backups fail after approx an hour (running a few more tests to see if it's exactly an hour) with the message ANR0480W Session 21409 for node CHXSERVE03 (Mac) terminated - connection with client severed. I had read a few things saying that perhaps I was running two schedulers which I'm sure I'm not (at least, I don't think so), and even if I would still be able to run a manual backup during the day when schedules do not run. Does anyone have any ideas? do you have logfiles? when you run dsmc i on the mac in a terminal, what happens? This being a Mac, it probably has about 250.000 to more than 1 000 000 files just in / Many thanks as always. Farren Minns John Wiley Sons -- Met vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Remco Post This email (and any attachment) is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please do not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please tell us by reply and delete all copies on your system. Although this email has been scanned for viruses you should rely on your own virus check as the sender accepts no liability for any damage arising out of any bug or virus infection. Please note
Re: Backing up virtual machines
On 25 sep 2009, at 15:50, Buddy Howeth wrote: If you backup a V.M., you still need to install the windows client on each VM in order to get the file updates so there are no savings on licenses. care to explain? The essence of VCB is to not have to install a client on each VM And the number of clients installed actually has nothing to do with the number of licenses you need, IIRC. We have about 20 VMs now which are backed up using VCB (Virtual Consolidated Backup). -- Met vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Remco Post
Re: Backing up virtual machines
Whether you use VCB or not, does not affect your licensing. You pay licenses based on the physical processors on the machine, no matter how many guests you run. So if you have many guests, you may get a significant reduction in license costs. You can do file-level backups by installing the b/a client and running on the guest, or by using VCB if you want to offload the work from the ESX server (and you have sufficient SAN connections). Even if you use VCB, you'll want to have the b/a client installed on each guest for doing file-level restores. For fullvm backups, you need to use VCB. The information is in the 5.4-5.5 Technical Guide redbook, SG24-7447, chap. 24. The TSM 6.1 client is better, it provides integrated support for fullvms as well as for file-level backups with VCB. W On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Remco Post r.p...@plcs.nl wrote: On 25 sep 2009, at 15:50, Buddy Howeth wrote: If you backup a V.M., you still need to install the windows client on each VM in order to get the file updates so there are no savings on licenses. care to explain? The essence of VCB is to not have to install a client on each VM And the number of clients installed actually has nothing to do with the number of licenses you need, IIRC. We have about 20 VMs now which are backed up using VCB (Virtual Consolidated Backup). -- Met vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Remco Post
Re: Backing up virtual machines
On 25 sep 2009, at 16:07, Wanda Prather wrote: Even if you use VCB, you'll want to have the b/a client installed on each guest for doing file-level restores. map destination as a network drive on the vcb proxy restore to alternate location using the client on the proxy unmap (ok, If you can't make that mapping, that might be a reason for a client on the guest/target). -- Met vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Remco Post
Re: Backing up virtual machines
When you backup a VM, you are getting a snapshot of the computer you are saving, if you later need to restore a specific file on that VM and you didn't install the client then you only have the snapshot and you must restore the entire snapshot, convert it back into a VM and then copy out what you need. We annually test our DR plan and last year was the first using VMs. We take a snapshot once every week and then use the client on each VM to get the changes that are occurring daily. During our DR test at IBM, we restored the VMs, then brought it up to date using the windows client If you don't use a client to get the indivdual changes at the file system level, then you have to take a snapshot everyday and still deal with restoring the entire VM and conversion when you need to do a restore. We are using 5.5 and have 3 ESX servers hosting 20 VMs. We are in the process of ordering another ESX server to increase our VM farm. If we didn't also backup the individual file changes on each VM, we would have to snapshot everyone each night and the amount of data being saved each day would be about 25 terabytes despite the fact that only part of the file system may have changed. Also during our production season, taking a snapshot on a active server will cause processes on that server to be delayed while the snapshot log file is being created. Everytime this happens, our helpdesk gets calls from users saying that for several minutes everything stopped. TSM 6.x may change how this works, but we are using 5.5 with VCB and this is how it works. Been up and running more than a year now. Buddy Howeth Computer Operations Specialist Information Systems Pacific Coast Producers Corporate Offices 631 N. Cluff Ave Lodi, CA 95240-0756 (209) 367-8800 - Main# (209) 367-6288 - Computer Room (209) 366-6240 - Alpha Pager Remco Post r.p...@plcs.nl Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 09/25/2009 07:00 AM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Backing up virtual machines On 25 sep 2009, at 15:50, Buddy Howeth wrote: If you backup a V.M., you still need to install the windows client on each VM in order to get the file updates so there are no savings on licenses. care to explain? The essence of VCB is to not have to install a client on each VM And the number of clients installed actually has nothing to do with the number of licenses you need, IIRC. We have about 20 VMs now which are backed up using VCB (Virtual Consolidated Backup). -- Met vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Remco Post _ Scanned by IBM Email Security Management Services powered by MessageLabs. For more information please visit http://www.ers.ibm.com _
Re: Backing up virtual machines
We looked at this from both angles. First from the point of creating a VMcluster of only guests that require backups and sub-capacity licensing and only backing up vm guests that require backups. Turned out we didn't have enough guests in any one site to justify licensing a 6 node - 8 core VMcluster for TSM. So we are looking deeper into sub capacity licensing and making sure there aren't any gotchas. It is the most cost effective way, but also doesn't penalize you if you need to eventually license the entire ESX node. However, I have come across a concern that hopefully someone can help me with. Right now we are preparing to deploy 3 node vmclusters to all remote sites. By our standards, there will be two or three guests that will require backups. Backing up the vm datastores has not really been discussed. The scenario I'm concerned with is the possibility of storage becoming corrupt. What are some others using for full vmcluster recovery? Or is the most cost effective way, rebuilding the guests ? -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Remco Post Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:00 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Backing up virtual machines On 25 sep 2009, at 15:50, Buddy Howeth wrote: If you backup a V.M., you still need to install the windows client on each VM in order to get the file updates so there are no savings on licenses. care to explain? The essence of VCB is to not have to install a client on each VM And the number of clients installed actually has nothing to do with the number of licenses you need, IIRC. We have about 20 VMs now which are backed up using VCB (Virtual Consolidated Backup). -- Met vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Remco Post
Re: Backing up virtual machines
Hi all Thanks for the information. Gives me plenty to think about. Regards Farren -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Buddy Howeth Sent: 25 September 2009 15:16 To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Backing up virtual machines When you backup a VM, you are getting a snapshot of the computer you are saving, if you later need to restore a specific file on that VM and you didn't install the client then you only have the snapshot and you must restore the entire snapshot, convert it back into a VM and then copy out what you need. We annually test our DR plan and last year was the first using VMs. We take a snapshot once every week and then use the client on each VM to get the changes that are occurring daily. During our DR test at IBM, we restored the VMs, then brought it up to date using the windows client If you don't use a client to get the indivdual changes at the file system level, then you have to take a snapshot everyday and still deal with restoring the entire VM and conversion when you need to do a restore. We are using 5.5 and have 3 ESX servers hosting 20 VMs. We are in the process of ordering another ESX server to increase our VM farm. If we didn't also backup the individual file changes on each VM, we would have to snapshot everyone each night and the amount of data being saved each day would be about 25 terabytes despite the fact that only part of the file system may have changed. Also during our production season, taking a snapshot on a active server will cause processes on that server to be delayed while the snapshot log file is being created. Everytime this happens, our helpdesk gets calls from users saying that for several minutes everything stopped. TSM 6.x may change how this works, but we are using 5.5 with VCB and this is how it works. Been up and running more than a year now. Buddy Howeth Computer Operations Specialist Information Systems Pacific Coast Producers Corporate Offices 631 N. Cluff Ave Lodi, CA 95240-0756 (209) 367-8800 - Main# (209) 367-6288 - Computer Room (209) 366-6240 - Alpha Pager Remco Post r.p...@plcs.nl Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 09/25/2009 07:00 AM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Backing up virtual machines On 25 sep 2009, at 15:50, Buddy Howeth wrote: If you backup a V.M., you still need to install the windows client on each VM in order to get the file updates so there are no savings on licenses. care to explain? The essence of VCB is to not have to install a client on each VM And the number of clients installed actually has nothing to do with the number of licenses you need, IIRC. We have about 20 VMs now which are backed up using VCB (Virtual Consolidated Backup). -- Met vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Remco Post _ Scanned by IBM Email Security Management Services powered by MessageLabs. For more information please visit http://www.ers.ibm.com _ This email (and any attachment) is confidential, may be legally privileged and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient please do not disclose, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please tell us by reply and delete all copies on your system. Although this email has been scanned for viruses you should rely on your own virus check as the sender accepts no liability for any damage arising out of any bug or virus infection. Please note that email traffic data may be monitored and that emails may be viewed for security reasons. John Wiley Sons Limited is a private limited company registered in England with registered number 641132. Registered office address: The Atrium, Southern Gate, Chichester, West Sussex, PO19 8SQ.
Re: Backing up virtual machines
On 25 sep 2009, at 16:15, Buddy Howeth wrote: When you backup a VM, you are getting a snapshot of the computer you are saving, if you later need to restore a specific file on that VM and you didn't install the client then you only have the snapshot and you must restore the entire snapshot, convert it back into a VM and then copy out what you need. with VCB? In what implementation of which client? If you don't use a client to get the indivdual changes at the file system level, then you have to take a snapshot everyday and still deal with restoring the entire VM and conversion when you need to do a restore. We are using 5.5 and have 3 ESX servers hosting 20 VMs. We are in the process of ordering another ESX server to increase our VM farm. Again, in what implementation of which client? TSM 6.x may change how this works, but we are using 5.5 with VCB and this is how it works. Been up and running more than a year now. Ah, in my limited understanding of the TSM 5.5 client's VM capabilities (I prefer the STORServer VCB agent), it was capable of actually making a file-level incremental of your VM guests. Making full image backups is nice for DR, but otherwise quite useless, as you pointed out. -- Met vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Remco Post
Re: Backing up virtual machines
And with the Storserver Agent you can restore file-level back to the guest machine without needing the TSM client installed on the guest, only on the proxy. Steve Schaub Systems Engineer, Windows BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Remco Post Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:58 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Backing up virtual machines On 25 sep 2009, at 16:15, Buddy Howeth wrote: When you backup a VM, you are getting a snapshot of the computer you are saving, if you later need to restore a specific file on that VM and you didn't install the client then you only have the snapshot and you must restore the entire snapshot, convert it back into a VM and then copy out what you need. with VCB? In what implementation of which client? If you don't use a client to get the indivdual changes at the file system level, then you have to take a snapshot everyday and still deal with restoring the entire VM and conversion when you need to do a restore. We are using 5.5 and have 3 ESX servers hosting 20 VMs. We are in the process of ordering another ESX server to increase our VM farm. Again, in what implementation of which client? TSM 6.x may change how this works, but we are using 5.5 with VCB and this is how it works. Been up and running more than a year now. Ah, in my limited understanding of the TSM 5.5 client's VM capabilities (I prefer the STORServer VCB agent), it was capable of actually making a file-level incremental of your VM guests. Making full image backups is nice for DR, but otherwise quite useless, as you pointed out. -- Met vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Remco Post - Please see the following link for the BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee E-mail disclaimer: http://www.bcbst.com/email_disclaimer.shtm
Re: Backing up virtual machines
I think TSM Client you can restore file-level or full level. Also you can save incremental backup during the week days and full backup each 7 or 15 or .. days. - Mensaje original De: Schaub, Steve steve_sch...@bcbst.com Para: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Enviado: viernes, 25 de septiembre, 2009 18:34:45 Asunto: Re: Backing up virtual machines And with the Storserver Agent you can restore file-level back to the guest machine without needing the TSM client installed on the guest, only on the proxy. Steve Schaub Systems Engineer, Windows BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Remco Post Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:58 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Backing up virtual machines On 25 sep 2009, at 16:15, Buddy Howeth wrote: When you backup a VM, you are getting a snapshot of the computer you are saving, if you later need to restore a specific file on that VM and you didn't install the client then you only have the snapshot and you must restore the entire snapshot, convert it back into a VM and then copy out what you need. with VCB? In what implementation of which client? If you don't use a client to get the indivdual changes at the file system level, then you have to take a snapshot everyday and still deal with restoring the entire VM and conversion when you need to do a restore. We are using 5.5 and have 3 ESX servers hosting 20 VMs. We are in the process of ordering another ESX server to increase our VM farm. Again, in what implementation of which client? TSM 6.x may change how this works, but we are using 5.5 with VCB and this is how it works. Been up and running more than a year now. Ah, in my limited understanding of the TSM 5.5 client's VM capabilities (I prefer the STORServer VCB agent), it was capable of actually making a file-level incremental of your VM guests. Making full image backups is nice for DR, but otherwise quite useless, as you pointed out. -- Met vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Remco Post - Please see the following link for the BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee E-mail disclaimer: http://www.bcbst.com/email_disclaimer.shtm
Re: Backing up virtual machines
If we're getting off in to 3rd party products, check out the Veeam Backup Recovery product (http://www.veeam.com) Bill Boyer Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun. -Unknown- -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Schaub, Steve Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:35 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Backing up virtual machines And with the Storserver Agent you can restore file-level back to the guest machine without needing the TSM client installed on the guest, only on the proxy. Steve Schaub Systems Engineer, Windows BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Remco Post Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:58 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Backing up virtual machines On 25 sep 2009, at 16:15, Buddy Howeth wrote: When you backup a VM, you are getting a snapshot of the computer you are saving, if you later need to restore a specific file on that VM and you didn't install the client then you only have the snapshot and you must restore the entire snapshot, convert it back into a VM and then copy out what you need. with VCB? In what implementation of which client? If you don't use a client to get the indivdual changes at the file system level, then you have to take a snapshot everyday and still deal with restoring the entire VM and conversion when you need to do a restore. We are using 5.5 and have 3 ESX servers hosting 20 VMs. We are in the process of ordering another ESX server to increase our VM farm. Again, in what implementation of which client? TSM 6.x may change how this works, but we are using 5.5 with VCB and this is how it works. Been up and running more than a year now. Ah, in my limited understanding of the TSM 5.5 client's VM capabilities (I prefer the STORServer VCB agent), it was capable of actually making a file-level incremental of your VM guests. Making full image backups is nice for DR, but otherwise quite useless, as you pointed out. -- Met vriendelijke groeten/Kind regards, Remco Post - Please see the following link for the BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee E-mail disclaimer: http://www.bcbst.com/email_disclaimer.shtm
