Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
Dave, Remember that by going from "B" drives to "H" drives you are now writing 3 times as many tracks (128 vs 384) per tape, and 3 times as much data per cartridge. Consequently, you will almost certainly have some "marginal" tapes that would work at the lower density that will now likely give problems. Every site that we have assisted with such an upgrade has experienced some number of cartridges that have shown up as bad after the upgrade. Upgrading Atape will probably not be much help here. If these are IBM cartridges, remember that these have a lengthy warranty that you can take advantage of (800-IBM-MEDIA); if they are another brand, check their warranty policies. Regards, -Lloyd On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:27:01 -0700 "Pearson, Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote thusly: > Hi Zlatko, > > Thanks for replying... > > The problems we are having is we been getting a lots of read/write error > on our 3590 J tapes. We have about 1300 tapes in our 3494library and in > just the last 2 months, we have gotten 13 read/write errors on our > tapes. Before the upgrade we very rarely see a bad tape and now we see > too many. > > Last summer, we did expand our 3494library adding two frame and another > assessor to the library. We also upgraded our 3590 tape drive from B1A > to H1A. We are on the latest ATAPE driver too. > > David C. Pearson > IS Production Support Analyst > System & Network Service > Snohomish County PUD # 1 > <> > Phone: 425.347.4420 > Pager: 425.290.0944 > FAX: 425.267.6380 > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -Original Message- > From: Zlatko Krastev [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 4:50 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject:Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges > > You did not called it IBM but I assumed it being unaware of the > device. Thanks to Richard's clarification I was able to figure > it out. > > Now to the topic: > if you really need to use such machine, it would certainly mean > your server room environment is *dirty*! If it indeed is, the > risk of losing data would be rather close to the risk when you > are not doing backups at all. I can only quote a sentence not > invented by me:"Poor security is worse than no security at all, > as it provides fake sense of security!" > > If your library environment is clean enough (through using and > regular cleaning of appropriate filters in conditioners) and > your operators are handling tapes only through library I/O > station - you should not need such a device. At that point I > personally would react nearly as Tom suggested. > > Zlatko Krastev > IT Consultant > > > > > > > "Pearson, Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 23.10.2003 17:26 > Please respond to "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > cc: > Subject:Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges > > > I apolgise for calling the 3599 model an IBM My mistake. > > I was just giving one model of cartridge cleaning machine called > 3599 (Yes there are cartridge cleaning meachine out there.) > > There is another cleaning machine called.. "STAR" 3590 cartridge > cleaning machine. > I'm sure there are many other 'brand' of machine that clean > tapes/cartridge. > > Ziatko, does you company clean their cartridges on these type > of machine? If so, Is it worth it? > if not... why you don't use them? > > Thanks again Ziatko. > > Dave Pearson > > > -Original Message- > > From: Zlatko Krastev [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:13 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges > IBM 3599 is not a machine, but so called "machine type > / model" > for > ordering any Magstar cartridges. > 3599-001, -002, -003 are 3590 J cartridges (10/20/30 GB) > 3599-004, -005, -006 are 3590 K cartridges (20/40/60 GB) > 3599-007 is 3590 cleaning cartridge (what probably you > are looking > for!!!) > 3599-011, -012
Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
Hi Zlatko,
Thanks for replying...
The problems we are having is we been getting a lots of read/write error on our 3590 J
tapes. We have about 1300 tapes in our 3494library and in just the last 2 months, we
have gotten 13 read/write errors on our tapes. Before the upgrade we very rarely see a
bad tape and now we see too many.
Last summer, we did expand our 3494library adding two frame and another assessor to
the library. We also upgraded our 3590 tape drive from B1A to H1A. We are on the
latest ATAPE driver too.
David C. Pearson
IS Production Support Analyst
System & Network Service
Snohomish County PUD # 1
<>
Phone: 425.347.4420
Pager: 425.290.0944
FAX: 425.267.6380
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Zlatko Krastev [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 4:50 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
You did not called it IBM but I assumed it being unaware of the device.
Thanks to Richard's clarification I was able to figure it out.
Now to the topic:
if you really need to use such machine, it would certainly mean your
server room environment is *dirty*! If it indeed is, the risk of losing
data would be rather close to the risk when you are not doing backups at
all. I can only quote a sentence not invented by me:
"Poor security is worse than no security at all, as it provides fake sense
of security!"
If your library environment is clean enough (through using and regular
cleaning of appropriate filters in conditioners) and your operators are
handling tapes only through library I/O station - you should not need such
a device. At that point I personally would react nearly as Tom suggested.
Zlatko Krastev
IT Consultant
"Pearson, Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23.10.2003 17:26
Please respond to "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
I apolgise for calling the 3599 model an IBM My mistake.
I was just giving one model of cartridge cleaning machine called 3599 (Yes
there are cartridge cleaning meachine out there.)
There is another cleaning machine called.. "STAR" 3590 cartridge cleaning
machine.
I'm sure there are many other 'brand' of machine that clean
tapes/cartridge.
Ziatko, does you company clean their cartridges on these type of machine?
If so, Is it worth it?
if not... why you don't use them?
Thanks again Ziatko.
Dave Pearson
> -Original Message-
> From: Zlatko Krastev [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:13 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
IBM 3599 is not a machine, but so called "machine type / model"
for
ordering any Magstar cartridges.
3599-001, -002, -003 are 3590 J cartridges (10/20/30 GB)
3599-004, -005, -006 are 3590 K cartridges (20/40/60 GB)
3599-007 is 3590 cleaning cartridge (what probably you are looking
for!!!)
3599-011, -012, -013 are 3592 cartridges (300 GB)
3599-017 is 3592 cleaning cartridge.
This is a second method to order cartridges through IBM Storage
channel.
The first is as components of 3590 drives. Same is for LTO - they
can be
ordered as part of 358x unit or separately as 3589-xxx media.
If you need short confirm: Yes, this is working/supported cleaning
media
for any IBM 3590 drives (standalone, within IBM 3494, or within
StorageTek
silo)!
Machine type does not mean automatically hardware. For example
before
joining Passport Advantage, TSM was machine type/model 5697-TSM
and later
5698-TSM!
Zlatko Krastev
IT Consultant
<>
Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
> if you really need to use such machine, it would certainly mean your > server room environment is *dirty*! Zlatko has a good point, but it could be worth considering for your disaster vault, if it's not quite as clean as your machine room. Places like vaults can get dusty after a while. For example, keep tapes in the vault a max of say 3 years. Clean them with a gadget like this every year. It saves on tape reclaim, but it (hopefully) means your DR copies are readable. My 2 (euro-) cents' worth. Richard Foster *** NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it, may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete the e-mail and attached documents. Thank you. ***
Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
You did not called it IBM but I assumed it being unaware of the device.
Thanks to Richard's clarification I was able to figure it out.
Now to the topic:
if you really need to use such machine, it would certainly mean your
server room environment is *dirty*! If it indeed is, the risk of losing
data would be rather close to the risk when you are not doing backups at
all. I can only quote a sentence not invented by me:
"Poor security is worse than no security at all, as it provides fake sense
of security!"
If your library environment is clean enough (through using and regular
cleaning of appropriate filters in conditioners) and your operators are
handling tapes only through library I/O station - you should not need such
a device. At that point I personally would react nearly as Tom suggested.
Zlatko Krastev
IT Consultant
"Pearson, Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23.10.2003 17:26
Please respond to "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager"
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
I apolgise for calling the 3599 model an IBM My mistake.
I was just giving one model of cartridge cleaning machine called 3599 (Yes
there are cartridge cleaning meachine out there.)
There is another cleaning machine called.. "STAR" 3590 cartridge cleaning
machine.
I'm sure there are many other 'brand' of machine that clean
tapes/cartridge.
Ziatko, does you company clean their cartridges on these type of machine?
If so, Is it worth it?
if not... why you don't use them?
Thanks again Ziatko.
Dave Pearson
> -Original Message-
> From: Zlatko Krastev [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:13 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
IBM 3599 is not a machine, but so called "machine type / model"
for
ordering any Magstar cartridges.
3599-001, -002, -003 are 3590 J cartridges (10/20/30 GB)
3599-004, -005, -006 are 3590 K cartridges (20/40/60 GB)
3599-007 is 3590 cleaning cartridge (what probably you are looking
for!!!)
3599-011, -012, -013 are 3592 cartridges (300 GB)
3599-017 is 3592 cleaning cartridge.
This is a second method to order cartridges through IBM Storage
channel.
The first is as components of 3590 drives. Same is for LTO - they
can be
ordered as part of 358x unit or separately as 3589-xxx media.
If you need short confirm: Yes, this is working/supported cleaning
media
for any IBM 3590 drives (standalone, within IBM 3494, or within
StorageTek
silo)!
Machine type does not mean automatically hardware. For example
before
joining Passport Advantage, TSM was machine type/model 5697-TSM
and later
5698-TSM!
Zlatko Krastev
IT Consultant
Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
>I take it that you company do not use these model 3599 cleaning machine? Dave - True, we do not. In the dim past I recall seeing cleaning machines for open reel tapes, with a supply of special razor blades for scraping gunk off the oxide surface of the tape as it sped by. Such external cleaning measures were certainly appropriate in those days, where operators touched the surface of the media and the tape was very much more open to the environment. These days, all removeable media remains at least somewhat exposed to the atmosphere, but contact through handling is virtually non-existent, and so the need for such externalized cleaning is dubious. The real value of a device such as the Bow Industries "3599", in my experience, is in detecting and reporting anomalies in the tape: wrinkles, creases, ripples, etc., which I have seen in post mortems of failed cartridges. It is valuable to determine such without having to unreel the tape into a cardboard box, to be able to return such tapes to the manufacturer with a report telling them that their manufacturing process was stinko that day, letting defectively made tapes get out of the factory. Richard Sims, http://people.bu.edu/rbs/ADSM.QuickFacts
Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
I apolgise for calling the 3599 model an IBM My mistake. I was just giving one model of cartridge cleaning machine called 3599 (Yes there are cartridge cleaning meachine out there.) There is another cleaning machine called.. "STAR" 3590 cartridge cleaning machine. I'm sure there are many other 'brand' of machine that clean tapes/cartridge. Ziatko, does you company clean their cartridges on these type of machine? If so, Is it worth it? if not... why you don't use them? Thanks again Ziatko. Dave Pearson > -Original Message- > From: Zlatko Krastev [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:13 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges IBM 3599 is not a machine, but so called "machine type / model" for ordering any Magstar cartridges. 3599-001, -002, -003 are 3590 J cartridges (10/20/30 GB) 3599-004, -005, -006 are 3590 K cartridges (20/40/60 GB) 3599-007 is 3590 cleaning cartridge (what probably you are looking for!!!) 3599-011, -012, -013 are 3592 cartridges (300 GB) 3599-017 is 3592 cleaning cartridge. This is a second method to order cartridges through IBM Storage channel. The first is as components of 3590 drives. Same is for LTO - they can be ordered as part of 358x unit or separately as 3589-xxx media. If you need short confirm: Yes, this is working/supported cleaning media for any IBM 3590 drives (standalone, within IBM 3494, or within StorageTek silo)! Machine type does not mean automatically hardware. For example before joining Passport Advantage, TSM was machine type/model 5697-TSM and later 5698-TSM! Zlatko Krastev IT Consultant
Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
I can't talk to 3590 -- but I've been running 360 LTO cartridges through 10 drives for two years now, averaging about 300 GB per tape and over 1.6 TB per day -- and the DRIVES haven't needed cleaning yet. At this point, anyone trying to sell me a tape cleaning machine will get escorted to the door and instructed to not come back. Tom Kauffman NIBCO, Inc -Original Message- From: Pearson, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 9:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges Thank Richard, I take it that you company do not use these model 3599 cleaning machine? Back int the "old days" we had a cleaning machine for the old "round wheels" tape. But since the cartridge came out, there wasn't a cleaning maching then. I was hoping to get information from other if they do use a cleaning machine for their cartridge and is it worth it or if not, why? Dave Pearson > -Original Message- > From: Richard Sims [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:47 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges > > >IBM 3599 is not a machine, but so called "machine type / model" for > >ordering any Magstar cartridges. ... > > The original posting was overly limited in information, and I found the bitmap > attachment unprocessable; but I think the reference was to: > > 3599A product from Bow Industries for > cleaning and retensioning 3590 tape > cartridges. > www.bowindustries.com/3599.htm > Richard Sims, BU CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments are for the exclusive and confidential use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, distribute or take action in reliance upon this message. If you have received this in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this message and its attachments from your computer system. We do not waive attorney-client or work product privilege by the transmission of this message.
Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
Thank Richard, I take it that you company do not use these model 3599 cleaning machine? Back int the "old days" we had a cleaning machine for the old "round wheels" tape. But since the cartridge came out, there wasn't a cleaning maching then. I was hoping to get information from other if they do use a cleaning machine for their cartridge and is it worth it or if not, why? Dave Pearson > -Original Message- > From: Richard Sims [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:47 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges > > >IBM 3599 is not a machine, but so called "machine type / model" for > >ordering any Magstar cartridges. ... > > The original posting was overly limited in information, and I found the bitmap > attachment unprocessable; but I think the reference was to: > > 3599A product from Bow Industries for > cleaning and retensioning 3590 tape > cartridges. > www.bowindustries.com/3599.htm > Richard Sims, BU
Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
>IBM 3599 is not a machine, but so called "machine type / model" for >ordering any Magstar cartridges. ... The original posting was overly limited in information, and I found the bitmap attachment unprocessable; but I think the reference was to: 3599A product from Bow Industries for cleaning and retensioning 3590 tape cartridges. www.bowindustries.com/3599.htm Richard Sims, BU
Re: Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges
- (on mbox.infotel.bg) ole0.bmp was scanned and no virus found - IBM 3599 is not a machine, but so called "machine type / model" for ordering any Magstar cartridges. 3599-001, -002, -003 are 3590 J cartridges (10/20/30 GB) 3599-004, -005, -006 are 3590 K cartridges (20/40/60 GB) 3599-007 is 3590 cleaning cartridge (what probably you are looking for!!!) 3599-011, -012, -013 are 3592 cartridges (300 GB) 3599-017 is 3592 cleaning cartridge. This is a second method to order cartridges through IBM Storage channel. The first is as components of 3590 drives. Same is for LTO - they can be ordered as part of 358x unit or separately as 3589-xxx media. If you need short confirm: Yes, this is working/supported cleaning media for any IBM 3590 drives (standalone, within IBM 3494, or within StorageTek silo)! Machine type does not mean automatically hardware. For example before joining Passport Advantage, TSM was machine type/model 5697-TSM and later 5698-TSM! Zlatko Krastev IT Consultant "Pearson, Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 22.10.2003 18:17 Please respond to "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Cleaning Machine for 3590 cartridges Hello Everyone, Do any of you use the model 3599 cleaning machine to clean your 3590 cartridges? If you do, What do you think of it. If you don't, Why not? Thanks David C. Pearson IS Production Support Analyst System & Network Service Snohomish County PUD # 1 <> Phone: 425.347.4420 Pager: 425.290.0944 FAX: 425.267.6380 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ole0.bmp Description: Binary data
