Re: Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA
Hi Curtis, Curtis Preston wrote: David, Although hate is a very strong word and I may not convince you Good luck :) I therefore had NO INTEREST in building another community that was not connected to the existing one. Does this list want connect to other community ? I'm already connected to communities I like. Almost all README, IBM Guides and Redbooks point to this list with subscribe commands. If newbies don't find this information, they will not find basic info like how to exclude this file, how to run an incremental backup and I don't want ADSM-L flooded with this kind of questions. About traffic, are you trying to convince me that browsing your forum with PDA is lighter than client email on same PDA ? DIGEST mode is also a solution. I'm on this list since 2000 and I like it, I'm mainly reader, not poster because my bad english. I don't want this list change. I don't want everyone points his own tools here. Your forum is a good tool for browsing archive, but should we accept it for incoming message without discussion with list members ? Should we accept a kind of take-over (I'm IRC addicted ;) Some people like forums, other like mailing list, don't be intrusive. ++ David Rigaudiere
Re: Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA
On Mon, 14 May 2007 18:40:37 -0400, Curtis Preston [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Allen, Thanks for taking the time to read my response and to create your own. Oh, verbose is my middle name! It's nothing. ;) It doesn't look like you've blindly looked for this mailing list lately. If someone looks for this list without having consulted -any- of the IBM docs on TSM, I'd just as soon they don't find it. If they have looked at the IBM docs (as others have noted) they'll have subscription instructions. Again, not 'sweat equity', more 'basic citizenship'. So here's a suggestion: You moderate incoming messages, and then report back in, say, a year or so, about how many you had to weed out? I'm on it! OK, so from here on any messages that come from your interface represent both Someone came to the forum, and also Curtis thought the message to be appropriate. This means you have volunteered your own reputation as hostage for the flow of messages from your forum. If we don't like the flow of messages, then we can simultaneously reject your audience and your opinion. :) Sounds fair, and if our bozo filters aren't set off by the New flood of clueless messages which we think we expect, well, maybe we're just wrong. BUT IT'S MY JOB TO DO WHAT I CAN TO MAKE SURE THIS LIST IS HAPPY WITH WHAT I'M DOING SO THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN. Cool. We agree. ;) Especially when you're confusing the official imprimatur of IBM with the evolving opinion of exactly the community you're trying to attract. I had to look up imprimatur. ;) I went to Boys' Latin School. Whee! I don't think I'm doing that, and am not sure what I wrote to make you think that. It was ...Only product to reject TSM, the product, is under the control of IBM. ADSM-L is, while sometimes slavishly worshipful (*blush*) distinctly not under IBM's control. - Allen S. Rout - Says stuff like Extant and Imprimatur... and he means it.
Re: Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA
This guy won't post to the list any more. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of soptotech Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 2:14 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: [ADSM-L] Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA Hi everyone, It is hill from Sopto technology Co.Hongkong, I want to take this chance to intruduce our SFP, GBIC and HBA products to you. We can provide totally new finisar 4GB sfp and Qlogic HBA with a very nice price. all the product is reliable and absolutely suitable for 4GB SAN switch. I listed part of our promotion below, kindly review it and advise for any, US$55 Finisar SFP, FTRJ8524P2BNV: Finisar 1G/2G/4G Fiber Channel 850nm multimode SFP Transceiver US$85 Finisar SFP, FTLF8524P2BNV: 4.25 Gb/s SFP Transceiver Built-in digital diagnostic 850nm Oxide VCSEL laser RoHS Compliant and Lead 1x, 2x, 4x Fibre Channel and Gigabit Ethernet US$30 Finisar SFP, FTRJ8519P1BNL: Finisar 850nm 1000BaseSX + Dual Rate 1G/2G Fiber Channel SFP Transceiver US$599 Storage Area Networks (SAN), Host Bus Adapter (HBA), Qlogic, QLA2340-CK: 64-bit 133MHz PCI-X to 2Gb Fibre Channel Adapter with multi-mode optic LC connector For more information , pls visit our website, www.sopto.com or contact me for detail. Look forward to hearing from you. thanks Best regards Hill Wu Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: hill.wu AIM:hillwuster Sopto Technology Co. Hongkong.[/b]
Re: Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA
From: soptotech [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, May 14, 2007 11:14 To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU I hate this idea where your forum is a proxy-in for ADSM-L. David Rigaudiere
Re: Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA
David, Although hate is a very strong word and I may not convince you otherwise, please permit me to defend the idea for a moment. I hope you'll see that it was done to help the list. I believe you can agree that a single large community supporting a given product is better than several smaller communities. I think it's bad, for example, that ADSM has the adsm.org forums that are looked at by one group of people, the tek-tips.com forums that are looked at by another group of people, and the mailing list that's looked at by another group of people. The biggest problem is that newbies don't have any idea where to post their question. They post it to a forum that's got low traffic and they get frustrated. I therefore had NO INTEREST in building another community that was not connected to the existing one. I also believe that there are many people that can contribute to the discussion that do not want to consent to a barrage of emails every day. For example, many people send their email to the blackberries or treos, and don't want that kind of traffic. BUT, they wouldn't find following and contributing to postings on a forum. I started this with the NetBackup NetWorker lists, and things have gone very well. In only a few months, we've got great synergy between the two. On any given day, I'd say about 5% of the postings on the list are coming from the forum, and most of them are actually ANSWERS, not flyby newbie questions that some were worried about. (One concern that some people stated was that they thought that newbies would jump in and out of a forum more often than they would a mailing list, that joining the list was considered sweat equity.) Connecting it this way also provides a really great threaded search of the mailing list and all its history. (Check it out at http://www.backupcentral.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=13) After successfully doing this for the other products, I moved on to TSM. My questions to the list administrator went unanswered, so I went the easier to ask forgiveness route. As far as SPAM, which started this thread, I hate it as much as you do, and am vigilant against it. I'm actually continually working on minor and major updates to the site to let posters know that this is not what the site is for, and that we have a zero tolerance policy for SPAM. You may notice that I was quite quick on responding to this clown, the FIRST person, actually to use the forums to send SPAM to any of the three mailing lists I've done this for. The other list admins and I work together on this issue, and I hope that we can come to the same kind of arrangement here. I think the cross posting is good for all concerned, and I'd hate to see TSM listed as the only product that won't allow it. --- W. Curtis Preston Author of O'Reilly's Backup Recovery and Using SANs and NAS VP Data Protection GlassHouse Technologies -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David 'Sniper' Rigaudiere Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 6:13 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA From: soptotech [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, May 14, 2007 11:14 To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU I hate this idea where your forum is a proxy-in for ADSM-L. David Rigaudiere
Re: Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA
Very well put... I was suprised, and disapointed to see that an actual ADSM Member had a Concern was (One concern that some people stated was that they thought that newbies would jump in and out of a forum more often than they would a mailing list, that joining the list was considered sweat equity.) For the most part the folks on this list are great about sharing than the default RTFM response. One note on the Archive Mailing List Search. I know I missed something a while back when the ADSM Archive List Search function was changed, but it's not the most intuitive compared to the last interface, I guress I have to RTFM Charles Hart Curtis Preston [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 05/14/2007 12:05 PM Please respond to ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA David, Although hate is a very strong word and I may not convince you otherwise, please permit me to defend the idea for a moment. I hope you'll see that it was done to help the list. I believe you can agree that a single large community supporting a given product is better than several smaller communities. I think it's bad, for example, that ADSM has the adsm.org forums that are looked at by one group of people, the tek-tips.com forums that are looked at by another group of people, and the mailing list that's looked at by another group of people. The biggest problem is that newbies don't have any idea where to post their question. They post it to a forum that's got low traffic and they get frustrated. I therefore had NO INTEREST in building another community that was not connected to the existing one. I also believe that there are many people that can contribute to the discussion that do not want to consent to a barrage of emails every day. For example, many people send their email to the blackberries or treos, and don't want that kind of traffic. BUT, they wouldn't find following and contributing to postings on a forum. I started this with the NetBackup NetWorker lists, and things have gone very well. In only a few months, we've got great synergy between the two. On any given day, I'd say about 5% of the postings on the list are coming from the forum, and most of them are actually ANSWERS, not flyby newbie questions that some were worried about. (One concern that some people stated was that they thought that newbies would jump in and out of a forum more often than they would a mailing list, that joining the list was considered sweat equity.) Connecting it this way also provides a really great threaded search of the mailing list and all its history. (Check it out at http://www.backupcentral.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=13) After successfully doing this for the other products, I moved on to TSM. My questions to the list administrator went unanswered, so I went the easier to ask forgiveness route. As far as SPAM, which started this thread, I hate it as much as you do, and am vigilant against it. I'm actually continually working on minor and major updates to the site to let posters know that this is not what the site is for, and that we have a zero tolerance policy for SPAM. You may notice that I was quite quick on responding to this clown, the FIRST person, actually to use the forums to send SPAM to any of the three mailing lists I've done this for. The other list admins and I work together on this issue, and I hope that we can come to the same kind of arrangement here. I think the cross posting is good for all concerned, and I'd hate to see TSM listed as the only product that won't allow it. --- W. Curtis Preston Author of O'Reilly's Backup Recovery and Using SANs and NAS VP Data Protection GlassHouse Technologies -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David 'Sniper' Rigaudiere Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 6:13 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA From: soptotech [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, May 14, 2007 11:14 To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU I hate this idea where your forum is a proxy-in for ADSM-L. David Rigaudiere This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately.
Re: Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA
The biggest problem is that newbies don't have any idea where to post their question. They post it to a forum that's got low traffic and they get frustrated. I disagree that this is the biggest problem. The problem you describe is a problem rooted in ignorance, whose unpleasant impact is felt by the ignorant requestor. This is undesirable, but often unavoidable. (Please don't read 'ignorant' as connoting disdain: It's just ignorance, not evil) For those who are both ignorant and unwilling to self-educate (I mean, come on: wikipedia has us, and an RSS feed, and Richard's quick facts, and so on) your site is not going to be more accessible an interface than those already present. They still won't be able to find it. But you say: On any given day, I'd say about 5% of the postings on the list are coming from the forum, and most of them are actually ANSWERS, not flyby newbie questions that some were worried about. OK. That looks like a well reasoned counterclaim. I'm Really-really sceptical, and the first obvious example sure looks like it contradicts your claim, but what the heck. (One concern that some people stated was that they thought that newbies would jump in and out of a forum more often than they would a mailing list, that joining the list was considered sweat equity.) Well, 'sweat equity' is a rather supercilious way to put it. More a matter of Read the FAQ, please? Here: How to ask smart questions, by Eric Raymond. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html As far as SPAM, which started this thread, I hate it as much as you do, and am vigilant against it. I'm actually continually working on minor and major updates to the site to let posters know that this is not what the site is for, and that we have a zero tolerance policy for SPAM. So here's a suggestion: You moderate incoming messages, and then report back in, say, a year or so, about how many you had to weed out? That makes the initial traffic a measure of your own reputation, and makes sure you're acknowledging it. You're taking responsibility for the (possible) flow of clueless questions, and it'll take up -your- time, not ours. I'd hate to see TSM listed as the only product that won't allow it. Heh. So did you deliberately type that in-character as the Godfather? husky That's a nice piece of backup software you got there. Be a shame if something were to happen... to it. /husky I'd hate for you to go out of your way to say something unpleasant about TSM too. Especially when you're confusing the official imprimatur of IBM with the evolving opinion of exactly the community you're trying to attract. Wow. I'm amazed at how much less charitable I feel towards your efforts after reading that last bit. - Allen S. Rout
Re: Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA
Allen, Thanks for taking the time to read my response and to create your own. I said: The biggest problem is that newbies don't have any idea where to post their question. They post it to a forum that's got low traffic and they get frustrated. You said: I disagree that this is the biggest problem. The problem you describe is a problem rooted in ignorance, whose unpleasant impact is felt by the ignorant requestor. It doesn't look like you've blindly looked for this mailing list lately. Consider a first time poster. I start at Google and search on TSM mailing list The first two links are for adsm.org. adsm.org has an ADSM-L mailing list ARCHIVE, but no mention on how to join the list. The fifth link (with only a few weeks in existence) was my forum linking to the TSM list. On my site, I show you how to subscribe to the mailing list or forum. If I search on ADSM-L, I get taken all over the place, including back to the IBM website where they have their own forums, a mention of this list, but no instructions on how to get into it. So we look at Wikipedia. I see a link on Wikipedia to the ADSM.org site, which SAYS it's known for the ADSM-L mailing list. I've already discussed that problem. There's references to some of the archives, and a reference to RSS feeds, but no reference on the good ol' email interface. How do I join this thing, and is it the thing I want to join? Most links seem to point to adsm.org, which is NOT this list and isn't connected to this list. This is undesirable, but often unavoidable. All I'm saying is that I didn't want to add to the confusion by adding another forum that wasn't connected to one of the other methods of communication. That's why I wanted to connect the two. I said: On any given day, I'd say about 5% of the postings on the list are coming from the forum, and most of them are actually ANSWERS, not flyby newbie questions that some were worried about. You said: OK. That looks like a well reasoned counterclaim. I'm Really-really sceptical, and the first obvious example sure looks like it contradicts your claim, but what the heck. Ah, but that's not the case! In the very short time that the mailing list and forum have been connected, 41 messages have gone to the mailing list from forum users, and you haven't even noticed. And the first incident of SPAM (which can happen on any list) was caught and dealt with promptly. You said: So here's a suggestion: You moderate incoming messages, and then report back in, say, a year or so, about how many you had to weed out? I'm on it! I said: I'd hate to see TSM listed as the only product that won't allow it. Heh. So did you deliberately type that in-character as the Godfather? That's HILARIOUS! I was watching The Godfather for the first time in a few years and was typing this as I watched it! What actually happened is it appeared that the email address I was using for the forum had already been locked out before we even got a chance to discuss it. Turns out that was just a mixup. I'd hate for you to go out of your way to say something unpleasant about TSM too. I wouldn't say anything unpleasant. I was merely saying that if this mailing list will only let me archive and not post, I'll have to put a sticky to that effect on the forum so people don't post in the wrong place. I'll let them know it's a read only forum due to the request of the ADSM-L mailing list. I wouldn't put a negative spin on it; I would just notify them of the fact. BUT IT'S MY JOB TO DO WHAT I CAN TO MAKE SURE THIS LIST IS HAPPY WITH WHAT I'M DOING SO THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN. Especially when you're confusing the official imprimatur of IBM with the evolving opinion of exactly the community you're trying to attract. I had to look up imprimatur. ;) I don't think I'm doing that, and am not sure what I wrote to make you think that. Wow. I'm amazed at how much less charitable I feel towards your efforts after reading that last bit. Well, thanks for sending the rest of what you said. And for being honest about how that made you feel. I'm an honest and blunt person myself. It was a poor choice of words from a very tired guy who felt he had been booted off the list with no chance to even describe what he was up to. Please forgive. I'm a nice guy just trying to help and I thought I'd been kicked out of the party already. I'll be keeping a close eye and we'll see how it goes, OK?
Re: Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA
BTW, to further discourage SPAM, I now have the following above and below the posting interface: ATTENTI0N SPAMMERS: These forums are gateways to opt-in mailing lists whose members are helping each other with technical questions. Any commercial messages will be deleted and your User ID and email address will be permanently blocked from this site. --- W. Curtis Preston Author of O'Reilly's Backup Recovery and Using SANs and NAS VP Data Protection GlassHouse Technologies -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allen S. Rout Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 2:05 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA The biggest problem is that newbies don't have any idea where to post their question. They post it to a forum that's got low traffic and they get frustrated. I disagree that this is the biggest problem. The problem you describe is a problem rooted in ignorance, whose unpleasant impact is felt by the ignorant requestor. This is undesirable, but often unavoidable. (Please don't read 'ignorant' as connoting disdain: It's just ignorance, not evil) For those who are both ignorant and unwilling to self-educate (I mean, come on: wikipedia has us, and an RSS feed, and Richard's quick facts, and so on) your site is not going to be more accessible an interface than those already present. They still won't be able to find it. But you say: On any given day, I'd say about 5% of the postings on the list are coming from the forum, and most of them are actually ANSWERS, not flyby newbie questions that some were worried about. OK. That looks like a well reasoned counterclaim. I'm Really-really sceptical, and the first obvious example sure looks like it contradicts your claim, but what the heck. (One concern that some people stated was that they thought that newbies would jump in and out of a forum more often than they would a mailing list, that joining the list was considered sweat equity.) Well, 'sweat equity' is a rather supercilious way to put it. More a matter of Read the FAQ, please? Here: How to ask smart questions, by Eric Raymond. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html As far as SPAM, which started this thread, I hate it as much as you do, and am vigilant against it. I'm actually continually working on minor and major updates to the site to let posters know that this is not what the site is for, and that we have a zero tolerance policy for SPAM. So here's a suggestion: You moderate incoming messages, and then report back in, say, a year or so, about how many you had to weed out? That makes the initial traffic a measure of your own reputation, and makes sure you're acknowledging it. You're taking responsibility for the (possible) flow of clueless questions, and it'll take up -your- time, not ours. I'd hate to see TSM listed as the only product that won't allow it. Heh. So did you deliberately type that in-character as the Godfather? husky That's a nice piece of backup software you got there. Be a shame if something were to happen... to it. /husky I'd hate for you to go out of your way to say something unpleasant about TSM too. Especially when you're confusing the official imprimatur of IBM with the evolving opinion of exactly the community you're trying to attract. Wow. I'm amazed at how much less charitable I feel towards your efforts after reading that last bit. - Allen S. Rout
Re: Looking for a broker or buyer for Finisar SFP and Qlogic HBA
On May 14, 2007, at 6:40 PM, Curtis Preston wrote: It doesn't look like you've blindly looked for this mailing list lately. Consider a first time poster. I start at Google and search on TSM mailing list The first two links are for adsm.org. adsm.org has an ADSM-L mailing list ARCHIVE, but no mention on how to join the list. The fifth link (with only a few weeks in existence) was my forum linking to the TSM list. On my site, I show you how to subscribe to the mailing list or forum. If I search on ADSM-L, I get taken all over the place, including back to the IBM website where they have their own forums, a mention of this list, but no instructions on how to get into it. So we look at Wikipedia. I see a link on Wikipedia to the ADSM.org site, which SAYS it's known for the ADSM-L mailing list. I've already discussed that problem. There's references to some of the archives, and a reference to RSS feeds, but no reference on the good ol' email interface. How do I join this thing, and is it the thing I want to join? Most links seem to point to adsm.org, which is NOT this list and isn't connected to this list. Curtis - I think you're stretching the point for some reason... Using TSM means using a TSM client, and thereby get a client manual, and all the client manuals describe the ADSM-L mailing list and how to join. Open, read, participate. Or, online: From the TSM Support Page (cited in the TSM manuals) http://www-306.ibm.com/software/sysmgmt/products/support/ IBMTivoliStorageManager.html click on Tivoli communities, and you get to http://www-306.ibm.com/software/sysmgmt/products/support/ Tivoli_Communities.html which contains instructions for joining. The IBM Web staff have done a good job organizing this info and making it readily findable. We should applaud their efforts. Further, do a Google search on adsm-l subscribe and you get the goods. This is not challenging. A customer technician with the skills to install and maintain vendor software is sufficiently proficient to find basic info like this. Richard Simssometime documenter
