Re: VTL's and D2D solutions
Thanks everyone for your comments and useful information. Kevin >>> Richard Rhodes 7/3/2012 8:38 AM >>> We use DataDomain with the NFS interface. When we did our evaluation we were only interested in NFS interface (not VTL). We looked at DataDomain and Quantum DXi8500. We wanted Exagrid to take part in the evaluation but they had just released TSM support and decided not to respond to the RFP. Rick From: Kevin Boatright To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 07/02/2012 10:49 AM Subject: VTL's and D2D solutions Sent by:"ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" We are currently looking at adding a Disk to Disk backup solution. Our current solution has a 3584 tape library with LTO-5 drives using TKLM. We have looked at Exagrid and Data Domain. Also, I believe HP has a solution. We will need to have encryption on the device and the ability to replicate between the two disk units. Anyone have any comments or recommendations? Thanks, Kevin - The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the original message.
Re: VTL's and D2D solutions
- All physical media (tapes/disk drives/CDs/etc) are tagged, tracked and audited every quarter - No physical media (tapes/disk drives/CDs/etc) leaves the site - Malfunctioning media is marked for destruction & collected in a safe - When enough media marked for destruction has been collected, a vendor brings a on-site shredder to the site and shreds the media following rigorous audit procedures - If media must be shipped, it is essentially done using armed guards, sealed containers and GPS monitoring, using three different vendors, two of which are decoys. Paranoia is another's reality. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Shawn Drew Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 4:53 PM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] VTL's and D2D solutions If someone pulls a disk out of the array, (replacing a bad disk, etc), you can't tell a regulator/auditor that it was encrypted. A purely bureaucratic reason, but still valid. Regulations pop up all the time without actual technical consideration. (I want to punch anyone who says the words "7 years" to me!) The OP's email address sounds like he's involved in the health care industry. They have the worst of it. Almost as bad as the financial industry. Regards, Shawn Shawn Drew Internet dplafla...@gmail.com Sent by: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 07/02/2012 05:35 PM Please respond to ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] VTL's and D2D solutions On Jul 2, 2012, at 9:35 AM, Kevin Boatright wrote: > We are currently looking at adding a Disk to Disk backup solution. Our current solution has a 3584 tape library with LTO-5 drives using TKLM. > > We have looked at Exagrid and Data Domain. Also, I believe HP has a solution. > > We will need to have encryption on the device and the ability to replicate between the two disk units. Why do you have to have encryption on the device? No, that wasn't a sarcastic question. If someone pulls a disk out of your DataDomain RAID, what can they do with it? Your data is striped across many drives, in chunks that are admittedly large enough to have a whole mailing address on it. Is someone afraid that someone else will steal one or more drives and then read unstructured streams of data looking for PII? Really? There's no chance that a tape will fall off a truck as you ship your backups off site. Sure, encrypt the VPN between sites, or use a dedicated network. But that doesn't mean you have to encrypt your data on the appliance, unless you're more paranoid than I am (or answer to people who are more paranoid than I am). At this point, I start worrying more about debacles from poor implementation or management of encryption than I do about loss of unencrypted data. > Anyone have any comments or recommendations? Besides DataDomain, HP, and IBM, I'm sure the rest of EMC, Oracle, and even small brands like Coraid would propose different solutions. For example, why not replicate cheap disk, on top of which you build FILE devices? Do you need the cost of a DataDomain or ProtecTier front-end, or do you just replicate unduplicated data? Oracle and Coraid will sell you large arrays of cheap disk with ZFS front-ends that could replicate data if you need it and could deduplicate the data as justified. I'm not saying I'd want to bet my job on Coraid, but others find there cost advantage over DataDomain attractive. > Thanks, > Kevin Nick This message and any attachments (the "message") is intended solely for the addressees and is confidential. If you receive this message in error, please delete it and immediately notify the sender. Any use not in accord with its purpose, any dissemination or disclosure, either whole or partial, is prohibited except formal approval. The internet can not guarantee the integrity of this message. BNP PARIBAS (and its subsidiaries) shall (will) not therefore be liable for the message if modified. Please note that certain functions and services for BNP Paribas may be performed by BNP Paribas RCC, Inc.
Re: VTL's and D2D solutions
On Jul 3, 2012, at 2:02 AM, Chavdar Cholev wrote: > I would say > Data Domain de-dupe ratio ==> 24:1 > or > protecTier 7650G de-dupe ratio => 34:1 What application are you using to get a dedupe ratio of 24:1 on a DataDomain? We've got about 25 DataDomains or DataDomain replication pairs set up; admittedly, we erred on the side of not overloading the front ends. Of those 25 pairs, the only one whose dedupe ratio approaches 20:1 is the one that's that's almost all DB2 full backups. Like many TDP clients, those aren't "incremental forever," the dedupe ratio looks better. For TSM hetergeneous environments, we're seeing ~8:1 on average. 6:1 for planning purposes, 9:1 when we're feeling generous toward our account team. Nick
Re: VTL's and D2D solutions
This implementation will be in a medical environment. One or our priorities is protecting patient's health information. It all has something to do with this thing call HIPPA. There have been lawsuits from just a patient name and diagnosis. Thanks, Kevin >>> Nick Laflamme 7/2/2012 5:35 PM >>> On Jul 2, 2012, at 9:35 AM, Kevin Boatright wrote: > We are currently looking at adding a Disk to Disk backup solution. Our > current solution has a 3584 tape library with LTO-5 drives using TKLM. > > We have looked at Exagrid and Data Domain. Also, I believe HP has a solution. > > We will need to have encryption on the device and the ability to replicate > between the two disk units. Why do you have to have encryption on the device? No, that wasn't a sarcastic question. If someone pulls a disk out of your DataDomain RAID, what can they do with it? Your data is striped across many drives, in chunks that are admittedly large enough to have a whole mailing address on it. Is someone afraid that someone else will steal one or more drives and then read unstructured streams of data looking for PII? Really? There's no chance that a tape will fall off a truck as you ship your backups off site. Sure, encrypt the VPN between sites, or use a dedicated network. But that doesn't mean you have to encrypt your data on the appliance, unless you're more paranoid than I am (or answer to people who are more paranoid than I am). At this point, I start worrying more about debacles from poor implementation or management of encryption than I do about loss of unencrypted data. > Anyone have any comments or recommendations? Besides DataDomain, HP, and IBM, I'm sure the rest of EMC, Oracle, and even small brands like Coraid would propose different solutions. For example, why not replicate cheap disk, on top of which you build FILE devices? Do you need the cost of a DataDomain or ProtecTier front-end, or do you just replicate unduplicated data? Oracle and Coraid will sell you large arrays of cheap disk with ZFS front-ends that could replicate data if you need it and could deduplicate the data as justified. I'm not saying I'd want to bet my job on Coraid, but others find there cost advantage over DataDomain attractive. > Thanks, > Kevin Nick
Re: VTL's and D2D solutions
HP has StoreOnce B6000 series, and you also have the Sepaton S2100-ES2. Both are stable, high-performing alternatives with encryption and VTL>VTL replication. Daniel Sparrman Exist i Stockholm AB Växel: 08-754 98 00 Fax: 08-754 97 30 daniel.sparr...@exist.se http://www.existgruppen.se Posthusgatan 1 761 30 NORRTÄLJE -"ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" wrote: - To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU From: Richard Rhodes Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" Date: 07/03/2012 14:39 Subject: Re: VTL's and D2D solutions We use DataDomain with the NFS interface. When we did our evaluation we were only interested in NFS interface (not VTL). We looked at DataDomain and Quantum DXi8500. We wanted Exagrid to take part in the evaluation but they had just released TSM support and decided not to respond to the RFP. Rick From: Kevin Boatright To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 07/02/2012 10:49 AM Subject: VTL's and D2D solutions Sent by: "ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" We are currently looking at adding a Disk to Disk backup solution. Our current solution has a 3584 tape library with LTO-5 drives using TKLM. We have looked at Exagrid and Data Domain. Also, I believe HP has a solution. We will need to have encryption on the device and the ability to replicate between the two disk units. Anyone have any comments or recommendations? Thanks, Kevin - The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the original message.
Re: VTL's and D2D solutions
We use DataDomain with the NFS interface. When we did our evaluation we were only interested in NFS interface (not VTL). We looked at DataDomain and Quantum DXi8500. We wanted Exagrid to take part in the evaluation but they had just released TSM support and decided not to respond to the RFP. Rick From: Kevin Boatright To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 07/02/2012 10:49 AM Subject:VTL's and D2D solutions Sent by:"ADSM: Dist Stor Manager" We are currently looking at adding a Disk to Disk backup solution. Our current solution has a 3584 tape library with LTO-5 drives using TKLM. We have looked at Exagrid and Data Domain. Also, I believe HP has a solution. We will need to have encryption on the device and the ability to replicate between the two disk units. Anyone have any comments or recommendations? Thanks, Kevin - The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the original message.
Re: VTL's and D2D solutions
I would say Data Domain de-dupe ratio ==> 24:1 or protecTier 7650G de-dupe ratio => 34:1 On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:52 AM, Shawn Drew wrote: > If someone pulls a disk out of the array, (replacing a bad disk, etc), you > can't tell a regulator/auditor that it was encrypted. A purely > bureaucratic reason, but still valid. > Regulations pop up all the time without actual technical consideration. (I > want to punch anyone who says the words "7 years" to me!) > > The OP's email address sounds like he's involved in the health care > industry. They have the worst of it. Almost as bad as the financial > industry. > > > Regards, > Shawn > > Shawn Drew > > > > > > Internet > dplafla...@gmail.com > > Sent by: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU > 07/02/2012 05:35 PM > Please respond to > ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU > > > To > ADSM-L > cc > > Subject > Re: [ADSM-L] VTL's and D2D solutions > > > > > > > On Jul 2, 2012, at 9:35 AM, Kevin Boatright wrote: > >> We are currently looking at adding a Disk to Disk backup solution. Our > current solution has a 3584 tape library with LTO-5 drives using TKLM. >> >> We have looked at Exagrid and Data Domain. Also, I believe HP has a > solution. >> >> We will need to have encryption on the device and the ability to > replicate between the two disk units. > > Why do you have to have encryption on the device? > > No, that wasn't a sarcastic question. > > If someone pulls a disk out of your DataDomain RAID, what can they do with > it? Your data is striped across many drives, in chunks that are admittedly > large enough to have a whole mailing address on it. Is someone afraid that > someone else will steal one or more drives and then read unstructured > streams of data looking for PII? Really? > > There's no chance that a tape will fall off a truck as you ship your > backups off site. Sure, encrypt the VPN between sites, or use a dedicated > network. But that doesn't mean you have to encrypt your data on the > appliance, unless you're more paranoid than I am (or answer to people who > are more paranoid than I am). At this point, I start worrying more about > debacles from poor implementation or management of encryption than I do > about loss of unencrypted data. > >> Anyone have any comments or recommendations? > > Besides DataDomain, HP, and IBM, I'm sure the rest of EMC, Oracle, and > even small brands like Coraid would propose different solutions. For > example, why not replicate cheap disk, on top of which you build FILE > devices? Do you need the cost of a DataDomain or ProtecTier front-end, or > do you just replicate unduplicated data? Oracle and Coraid will sell you > large arrays of cheap disk with ZFS front-ends that could replicate data > if you need it and could deduplicate the data as justified. I'm not saying > I'd want to bet my job on Coraid, but others find there cost advantage > over DataDomain attractive. > >> Thanks, >> Kevin > > Nick > > > This message and any attachments (the "message") is intended solely for > the addressees and is confidential. If you receive this message in error, > please delete it and immediately notify the sender. Any use not in accord > with its purpose, any dissemination or disclosure, either whole or partial, > is prohibited except formal approval. The internet can not guarantee the > integrity of this message. BNP PARIBAS (and its subsidiaries) shall (will) > not therefore be liable for the message if modified. Please note that certain > functions and services for BNP Paribas may be performed by BNP Paribas RCC, > Inc.
Re: VTL's and D2D solutions
If someone pulls a disk out of the array, (replacing a bad disk, etc), you can't tell a regulator/auditor that it was encrypted. A purely bureaucratic reason, but still valid. Regulations pop up all the time without actual technical consideration. (I want to punch anyone who says the words "7 years" to me!) The OP's email address sounds like he's involved in the health care industry. They have the worst of it. Almost as bad as the financial industry. Regards, Shawn Shawn Drew Internet dplafla...@gmail.com Sent by: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU 07/02/2012 05:35 PM Please respond to ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU To ADSM-L cc Subject Re: [ADSM-L] VTL's and D2D solutions On Jul 2, 2012, at 9:35 AM, Kevin Boatright wrote: > We are currently looking at adding a Disk to Disk backup solution. Our current solution has a 3584 tape library with LTO-5 drives using TKLM. > > We have looked at Exagrid and Data Domain. Also, I believe HP has a solution. > > We will need to have encryption on the device and the ability to replicate between the two disk units. Why do you have to have encryption on the device? No, that wasn't a sarcastic question. If someone pulls a disk out of your DataDomain RAID, what can they do with it? Your data is striped across many drives, in chunks that are admittedly large enough to have a whole mailing address on it. Is someone afraid that someone else will steal one or more drives and then read unstructured streams of data looking for PII? Really? There's no chance that a tape will fall off a truck as you ship your backups off site. Sure, encrypt the VPN between sites, or use a dedicated network. But that doesn't mean you have to encrypt your data on the appliance, unless you're more paranoid than I am (or answer to people who are more paranoid than I am). At this point, I start worrying more about debacles from poor implementation or management of encryption than I do about loss of unencrypted data. > Anyone have any comments or recommendations? Besides DataDomain, HP, and IBM, I'm sure the rest of EMC, Oracle, and even small brands like Coraid would propose different solutions. For example, why not replicate cheap disk, on top of which you build FILE devices? Do you need the cost of a DataDomain or ProtecTier front-end, or do you just replicate unduplicated data? Oracle and Coraid will sell you large arrays of cheap disk with ZFS front-ends that could replicate data if you need it and could deduplicate the data as justified. I'm not saying I'd want to bet my job on Coraid, but others find there cost advantage over DataDomain attractive. > Thanks, > Kevin Nick This message and any attachments (the "message") is intended solely for the addressees and is confidential. If you receive this message in error, please delete it and immediately notify the sender. Any use not in accord with its purpose, any dissemination or disclosure, either whole or partial, is prohibited except formal approval. The internet can not guarantee the integrity of this message. BNP PARIBAS (and its subsidiaries) shall (will) not therefore be liable for the message if modified. Please note that certain functions and services for BNP Paribas may be performed by BNP Paribas RCC, Inc.
Re: VTL's and D2D solutions
On Jul 2, 2012, at 9:35 AM, Kevin Boatright wrote: > We are currently looking at adding a Disk to Disk backup solution. Our > current solution has a 3584 tape library with LTO-5 drives using TKLM. > > We have looked at Exagrid and Data Domain. Also, I believe HP has a solution. > > We will need to have encryption on the device and the ability to replicate > between the two disk units. Why do you have to have encryption on the device? No, that wasn't a sarcastic question. If someone pulls a disk out of your DataDomain RAID, what can they do with it? Your data is striped across many drives, in chunks that are admittedly large enough to have a whole mailing address on it. Is someone afraid that someone else will steal one or more drives and then read unstructured streams of data looking for PII? Really? There's no chance that a tape will fall off a truck as you ship your backups off site. Sure, encrypt the VPN between sites, or use a dedicated network. But that doesn't mean you have to encrypt your data on the appliance, unless you're more paranoid than I am (or answer to people who are more paranoid than I am). At this point, I start worrying more about debacles from poor implementation or management of encryption than I do about loss of unencrypted data. > Anyone have any comments or recommendations? Besides DataDomain, HP, and IBM, I'm sure the rest of EMC, Oracle, and even small brands like Coraid would propose different solutions. For example, why not replicate cheap disk, on top of which you build FILE devices? Do you need the cost of a DataDomain or ProtecTier front-end, or do you just replicate unduplicated data? Oracle and Coraid will sell you large arrays of cheap disk with ZFS front-ends that could replicate data if you need it and could deduplicate the data as justified. I'm not saying I'd want to bet my job on Coraid, but others find there cost advantage over DataDomain attractive. > Thanks, > Kevin Nick
Re: VTL's and D2D solutions
I have had good success with Data Domain both as VTL and CIFS storage for TSM. It will encrypt at rest and encrypt the replication stream to another Data Domain. Andy Huebner -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Hart, Charles A Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 11:06 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] VTL's and D2D solutions With Gary's point below using the PT Gateway you can slide in Encrypted disk underneath the other appliances don't support encryption. With using your own disk you can leverage your volume purchasing power with your existing disk vendor as well. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee, Gary Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:35 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] VTL's and D2D solutions We are looking at vtls as well. You might check into the ibm protectier 7650. This is a head end that you attach to whatever storage you have. Emulates a lot of libraries, including the 3484 and 3494 I believe. Should know more in a couple of weeks after we review the answers to our RFPs. Gary Lee Senior System Programmer Ball State University phone: 765-285-1310 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Kevin Boatright Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:35 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: [ADSM-L] VTL's and D2D solutions We are currently looking at adding a Disk to Disk backup solution. Our current solution has a 3584 tape library with LTO-5 drives using TKLM. We have looked at Exagrid and Data Domain. Also, I believe HP has a solution. We will need to have encryption on the device and the ability to replicate between the two disk units. Anyone have any comments or recommendations? Thanks, Kevin This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. This e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient or an authorized representative of an intended recipient, you are prohibited from using, copying or distributing the information in this e-mail or its attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies of this message and any attachments. Thank you.
Re: VTL's and D2D solutions
With Gary's point below using the PT Gateway you can slide in Encrypted disk underneath the other appliances don't support encryption. With using your own disk you can leverage your volume purchasing power with your existing disk vendor as well. -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee, Gary Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:35 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] VTL's and D2D solutions We are looking at vtls as well. You might check into the ibm protectier 7650. This is a head end that you attach to whatever storage you have. Emulates a lot of libraries, including the 3484 and 3494 I believe. Should know more in a couple of weeks after we review the answers to our RFPs. Gary Lee Senior System Programmer Ball State University phone: 765-285-1310 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Kevin Boatright Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:35 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: [ADSM-L] VTL's and D2D solutions We are currently looking at adding a Disk to Disk backup solution. Our current solution has a 3584 tape library with LTO-5 drives using TKLM. We have looked at Exagrid and Data Domain. Also, I believe HP has a solution. We will need to have encryption on the device and the ability to replicate between the two disk units. Anyone have any comments or recommendations? Thanks, Kevin This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately.
Re: VTL's and D2D solutions
We are looking at vtls as well. You might check into the ibm protectier 7650. This is a head end that you attach to whatever storage you have. Emulates a lot of libraries, including the 3484 and 3494 I believe. Should know more in a couple of weeks after we review the answers to our RFPs. Gary Lee Senior System Programmer Ball State University phone: 765-285-1310 -Original Message- From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Kevin Boatright Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:35 AM To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: [ADSM-L] VTL's and D2D solutions We are currently looking at adding a Disk to Disk backup solution. Our current solution has a 3584 tape library with LTO-5 drives using TKLM. We have looked at Exagrid and Data Domain. Also, I believe HP has a solution. We will need to have encryption on the device and the ability to replicate between the two disk units. Anyone have any comments or recommendations? Thanks, Kevin
VTL's and D2D solutions
We are currently looking at adding a Disk to Disk backup solution. Our current solution has a 3584 tape library with LTO-5 drives using TKLM. We have looked at Exagrid and Data Domain. Also, I believe HP has a solution. We will need to have encryption on the device and the ability to replicate between the two disk units. Anyone have any comments or recommendations? Thanks, Kevin
