Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

[Steve Jones]

My wife's been a CNA, they call them PCN now, for like 20 years now. It's a
shot job, never will be high pay, but shes good at it and enjoys it most of
the time.

Her supervisor recently sent an email out about how she ha worked hard
advocating for the staff and had a suprise for them about compensation she
would discuss with them individually.

What it turned out was she had "advocated" to get them all up to 15 dollars
and hour. What she didnt remember was that the healthcare system had
publicly announced that they were moving to a 15 dollar minimum starting
pay.

This lady tried to take credit for that. Her "advocating" consisted of
getting staff exactly the bare minimum.

Needless to say, the wife was pissed, she had been training this new girl
for a couple weeks, who was now making the same wage as her. I normally
dont condone underporforming on purpose. But I told her if they're going to
pay her the same with her 20 years experience as the girl with two weeks
experience, then she should only give them two weeks experience performance.

Shes a bigger person than me and opted to apply for a lateral position in a
different department and negotiated herself another 1.50 on top.

That is a prime example of how not to keep valued staff. In case you were
looking for a what not to do.

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 11:31 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

>
> A lot of the advice now is to always keep changing jobs. Take the bigger
> offer. Don't spend too much time in one place. Don't be loyal to a
> company. And I can't really fault any of that that; there's rarely a
> payoff these days to putting in a career at a single company.
>
> I'm the kind of worker where if I feel my work is unappreciated I'm
> going to perform just the minimum until I quit. I had a manager that was
> all about penalties and punishment. I was early in college with no
> life-level bills to pay, so the threat of losing a paycheck didn't hold
> any sway over me. I worked for the love of the craft, getting paid was
> not the payoff. When I did quit, I didn't get another job that was
> anywhere near the upper half of my skill level for years because I
> didn't feel like anyone deserved to benefit from my skills.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

[Seth Mattinen]

A lot of the advice now is to always keep changing jobs. Take the bigger 
offer. Don't spend too much time in one place. Don't be loyal to a 
company. And I can't really fault any of that that; there's rarely a 
payoff these days to putting in a career at a single company.


I'm the kind of worker where if I feel my work is unappreciated I'm 
going to perform just the minimum until I quit. I had a manager that was 
all about penalties and punishment. I was early in college with no 
life-level bills to pay, so the threat of losing a paycheck didn't hold 
any sway over me. I worked for the love of the craft, getting paid was 
not the payoff. When I did quit, I didn't get another job that was 
anywhere near the upper half of my skill level for years because I 
didn't feel like anyone deserved to benefit from my skills.


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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti 60GHz install

[Jaime Solorza]

They have all kinds of goodies in there...the MT and DLink are used on
their two way radio controllers up on the Franklin Mountains...over Airaya
and Ubiquiti links...
This 60 GHz is a short link from office to new security business office.
They provide two way radio, GPS and security alarm systems ...
This link is for Internet and cameras.

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 8:05 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Ooooh, I see Mikrotik and D-Link in the rack.  The D-Link is just a
> switch, which is pretty hard to screw up, but still, D-Link is on my shit
> list, like Sheldon’s mortal enemies list.  Some of the worst routers ever,
> they proved you can be bad at both hardware and firmware design.  I did
> have a D-Link gigabit switch once, it worked OK, but they screwed up the
> holes in the rackmount ears.  They could screw up the proverbial one car
> funeral.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 29, 2020 8:38 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ubiquiti 60GHz install
>
>
>
> Condor's techs installed the radios and ran cabling...I configured it and
> showed them what they needed to do to get it 100% on both sides.
>
> It hit 1235 Mbps a couple of times we was interesting since AT is
> providing a 1 gig link.
>
> Most trees averaged over 800...
>
> Will go by next week after they fine align the remote side.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

[Ken Hohhof]

Like.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 8:54 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

 

I prefer this method, low base pay, incentive based recurring bonuses. Team 
bonuses like profit share etc (makes guys push crummy workers to do better or 
quit) individual, team, and company performance based pay can help you ride 
through tough times too without job cuts.

 

Pay increases based on metrics help you weed out idlers. We offered a buck to 
get A+ that we played for, nobody took it

 

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 7:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:


You get some entry level guy off the street at $15/ hour how do you give them 
something to look forward to.  How do you keep them from jumping ship once they 
have gained experience?  Some of my hires don’t even have drivers licenses.  

Sent from my iPhone





On Oct 29, 2020, at 5:45 PM, Matt Hoppes mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote:



So you’re going to pay them more to do their job?  Seems bad. 





On Oct 29, 2020, at 7:16 PM, Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

 

I am considering telling all new interviewees that we start at $15/hour but 
they can make more quickly according to this schedule.  And we also do COLA and 
Merit increases every 6 months.

 

Love to have feedback on this idea.

 

Please note my new email address: ch...@go-mtc.com  



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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti 60GHz install

[Ken Hohhof]

Ooooh, I see Mikrotik and D-Link in the rack.  The D-Link is just a switch, 
which is pretty hard to screw up, but still, D-Link is on my shit list, like 
Sheldon’s mortal enemies list.  Some of the worst routers ever, they proved you 
can be bad at both hardware and firmware design.  I did have a D-Link gigabit 
switch once, it worked OK, but they screwed up the holes in the rackmount ears. 
 They could screw up the proverbial one car funeral.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 8:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti 60GHz install

 

Condor's techs installed the radios and ran cabling...I configured it and 
showed them what they needed to do to get it 100% on both sides.

It hit 1235 Mbps a couple of times we was interesting since AT is providing a 
1 gig link.

Most trees averaged over 800...

Will go by next week after they fine align the remote side.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

[Steve Jones]

I prefer this method, low base pay, incentive based recurring bonuses. Team
bonuses like profit share etc (makes guys push crummy workers to do better
or quit) individual, team, and company performance based pay can help you
ride through tough times too without job cuts.

Pay increases based on metrics help you weed out idlers. We offered a buck
to get A+ that we played for, nobody took it

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 7:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

>
> You get some entry level guy off the street at $15/ hour how do you give
> them something to look forward to.  How do you keep them from jumping ship
> once they have gained experience?  Some of my hires don’t even have drivers
> licenses.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 29, 2020, at 5:45 PM, Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> 
> So you’re going to pay them more to do their job?  Seems bad.
>
> On Oct 29, 2020, at 7:16 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> 
> I am considering telling all new interviewees that we start at $15/hour
> but they can make more quickly according to this schedule.  And we also do
> COLA and Merit increases every 6 months.
>
> Love to have feedback on this idea.
>
> Please note my new email address: ch...@go-mtc.com
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

[Matt Hoppes]

Theory Y here as well. 

I reward employees when the company does well and they’ve helped to get us 
here. 

> On Oct 29, 2020, at 9:46 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> I am theory Y all the way.  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 7:39 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> I’m probably out of date since my experience as a manager in corporate 
>> America is from about 1980-2000.  Back then pay was pretty much according to 
>> position, you qualified for a position requiring more skill or 
>> responsibility, you got a new title and a bigger paycheck.  The only gerbils 
>> that required constant food pellets to keep running in the wheel were the 
>> salespeople.  (Yes, there were merit reviews, but also something HR called 
>> “compa ratio” which applied negative feedback on raises if you were above 
>> midpoint for your grade, to the point where at 120% of midpoint you were 
>> capped out.)
>>  
>> Maybe today all the employees need constant food pellets.
>> 
>> I’ll bet there was a Dilbert strip about that, let me Google it.  Yep:
>> https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-01-25
>>  
>> I also seem to remember from the days of management flavor of the week there 
>> was Theory X and Theory Y.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_X_and_Theory_Y
>>  
>>  
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
>> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 7:27 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation
>>  
>> I’m in the process of doing something very similar here shortly.
>>  
>> Start pay a bit more for technical type positions so $18/hr and then up from 
>> there every few months with bonus for projects completed on time, or good 
>> customer facing reviews on work done etc.
>>  
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
>> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 5:16 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Cc: Chuck McCown 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT compensation
>>  
>> I am considering telling all new interviewees that we start at $15/hour but 
>> they can make more quickly according to this schedule.  And we also do COLA 
>> and Merit increases every 6 months.
>>  
>> Love to have feedback on this idea.
>>  
>> Please note my new email address: ch...@go-mtc.com
>> -- 
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[AFMUG] Xbox 200gb update

[Steve Jones]

Had a customer dispute few hundred GB data transfer. The only suspect
device is an xbox. They say the kids "didnt do anything different" they
play fortnite, forza and Roblox primarily.  Was there any big updates this
weekend?
Kid probably downloaded 2 demos or something
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Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

[Chuck McCown]

I am theory Y all the way.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2020, at 7:39 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> 
> I’m probably out of date since my experience as a manager in corporate 
> America is from about 1980-2000.  Back then pay was pretty much according to 
> position, you qualified for a position requiring more skill or 
> responsibility, you got a new title and a bigger paycheck.  The only gerbils 
> that required constant food pellets to keep running in the wheel were the 
> salespeople.  (Yes, there were merit reviews, but also something HR called 
> “compa ratio” which applied negative feedback on raises if you were above 
> midpoint for your grade, to the point where at 120% of midpoint you were 
> capped out.)
>  
> Maybe today all the employees need constant food pellets.
> 
> I’ll bet there was a Dilbert strip about that, let me Google it.  Yep:
> https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-01-25
>  
> I also seem to remember from the days of management flavor of the week there 
> was Theory X and Theory Y.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_X_and_Theory_Y
>  
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 7:27 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation
>  
> I’m in the process of doing something very similar here shortly.
>  
> Start pay a bit more for technical type positions so $18/hr and then up from 
> there every few months with bonus for projects completed on time, or good 
> customer facing reviews on work done etc.
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 5:16 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: Chuck McCown 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT compensation
>  
> I am considering telling all new interviewees that we start at $15/hour but 
> they can make more quickly according to this schedule.  And we also do COLA 
> and Merit increases every 6 months.
>  
> Love to have feedback on this idea.
>  
> Please note my new email address: ch...@go-mtc.com
> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

[Ken Hohhof]

I'm probably out of date since my experience as a manager in corporate
America is from about 1980-2000.  Back then pay was pretty much according to
position, you qualified for a position requiring more skill or
responsibility, you got a new title and a bigger paycheck.  The only gerbils
that required constant food pellets to keep running in the wheel were the
salespeople.  (Yes, there were merit reviews, but also something HR called
"compa ratio" which applied negative feedback on raises if you were above
midpoint for your grade, to the point where at 120% of midpoint you were
capped out.)

 

Maybe today all the employees need constant food pellets.



I'll bet there was a Dilbert strip about that, let me Google it.  Yep:

https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-01-25

 

I also seem to remember from the days of management flavor of the week there
was Theory X and Theory Y.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_X_and_Theory_Y

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 7:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

 

I'm in the process of doing something very similar here shortly.

 

Start pay a bit more for technical type positions so $18/hr and then up from
there every few months with bonus for projects completed on time, or good
customer facing reviews on work done etc.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 5:16 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] OT compensation

 

I am considering telling all new interviewees that we start at $15/hour but
they can make more quickly according to this schedule.  And we also do COLA
and Merit increases every 6 months.

 

Love to have feedback on this idea.

 

Please note my new email address: ch...@go-mtc.com 


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Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

[Sterling Jacobson]

I'm in the process of doing something very similar here shortly.

Start pay a bit more for technical type positions so $18/hr and then up from 
there every few months with bonus for projects completed on time, or good 
customer facing reviews on work done etc.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 5:16 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT compensation

I am considering telling all new interviewees that we start at $15/hour but 
they can make more quickly according to this schedule.  And we also do COLA and 
Merit increases every 6 months.

Love to have feedback on this idea.

Please note my new email address: ch...@go-mtc.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

[Chuck McCown via AF]

You get some entry level guy off the street at $15/ hour how do you give them 
something to look forward to.  How do you keep them from jumping ship once they 
have gained experience?  Some of my hires don’t even have drivers licenses.  
Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2020, at 5:45 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> So you’re going to pay them more to do their job?  Seems bad. 
> 
>>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 7:16 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> I am considering telling all new interviewees that we start at $15/hour but 
>> they can make more quickly according to this schedule.  And we also do COLA 
>> and Merit increases every 6 months.
>>  
>> Love to have feedback on this idea.
>>  
>> Please note my new email address: ch...@go-mtc.com
>> 
>> -- 
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

[Ken Hohhof]

Where is the list of deductions?

 

I do kind of like the approach at the pizza place I worked at in college.  One 
month review.  You either got a raise or the boot.  This wasn’t stated up 
front, so you were surprised, either pleasantly or not.

 

Anybody remember the TV show Newsradio?  Everybody got the same bonus, except 
one person got “The Big Bonus”, and one got “The Shaft”.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 6:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

 

So you’re going to pay them more to do their job?  Seems bad. 





On Oct 29, 2020, at 7:16 PM, Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

 

I am considering telling all new interviewees that we start at $15/hour but 
they can make more quickly according to this schedule.  And we also do COLA and 
Merit increases every 6 months.

 

Love to have feedback on this idea.

 

Please note my new email address: ch...@go-mtc.com  



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Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

[Adam Moffett]

Looks like his schedule would bring them up to just above $20/hour.  I 
think that's reasonable for a good technician.  The person who can do 
all of that stuff is worth /at least/ that much.  I'd figure more like 
$25/hour.but maybe they'll get there after a few 6 month increases.



On 10/29/2020 7:45 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

So you’re going to pay them more to do their job?  Seems bad.


On Oct 29, 2020, at 7:16 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:


I am considering telling all new interviewees that we start at 
$15/hour but they can make more quickly according to this schedule.  
And we also do COLA and Merit increases every 6 months.

Love to have feedback on this idea.
Please note my new email address: ch...@go-mtc.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT compensation

[Matt Hoppes]

So you’re going to pay them more to do their job?  Seems bad. 

> On Oct 29, 2020, at 7:16 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
> 
> 
> I am considering telling all new interviewees that we start at $15/hour but 
> they can make more quickly according to this schedule.  And we also do COLA 
> and Merit increases every 6 months.
>  
> Love to have feedback on this idea.
>  
> Please note my new email address: ch...@go-mtc.com
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Trango Orion SPF Question

[Adam Moffett]

Follow the arrows.  "RADIO CPU" means access to the device itself.  In 
this case GE1 can only connect to the "RADIO CPU" for mgmt access.  GE2 
and RF interface can't connect to mgmt.


GE2 and the RF Interface connect to each other and nothing else. So 
that's the path for your payload.


So yeah you're always going through the switch, but the arrows show you 
which ports are grouped together.  Ports with arrows between could be 
thought of like ports in the same bridge on a Mikrotik.


PLA I think is for N+1.  So one switch module could take over a 
different radio module through the PLA port.  On this particular diagram 
it's just clutter and can be ignored.



On 10/29/2020 3:05 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

I just downloaded the manual.  The short version is

IBM ON = both ports are switched together (but you can choose to allow 
mgmt traffic on only a specific one).  If you have IBM ON at both ends 
then you can use either port on either end for service traffic, and 
assuming you only connected one port you should probably make that one 
the mgmt port, but also note that mgmt access is allowed through the 
RF port regardless of which ethernet port is selected for Mgmt.


IBM OFF = both ports are separate.  The Mgmt port only access the 
radio, and the other carries the service traffic.


If you have IBM OFF then whichever port is NOT your mgmt port is the 
service traffic port.  So you could still mix SFP+Copper if you pick 
opposite mgmt ports on each side.  And in this mode it's noteworthy 
that mgmt access is NOT allowed through the RF interface, so mgmt 
traffic must be allowed to pass all the way through to the site's 
switch/router and back up through the second cable to the mgmt port.


That's 5 pages of manual condensed to 4 sentences.

They don't spell it out in the manual, but if IBM is ON then you could 
create a switch loop by connecting both cables to one switch.  I know 
this because I've done it accidentally.  Probably should avoid that.



On 10/29/2020 2:50 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
I read through the manual, and saw all the different modes described, 
but wasn't super clear how you configured those different modes.  It 
looks like the copper and SFP are in the same switch group 
regardless, but you have to choose which port management is on.


On 10/29/2020 1:47 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Now that I think about it more, the Plus had two modes shown in the 
GUI.  I think it was "Smart Mode" or something like that.  In one 
mode all the ports were in one switch group, and in the other mode 
they were separated by internal VLAN's.  If you wanted that VLAN 
mode on, but wanted to get creative like map port 2 on one to port 4 
on the other, then that was where only Trango support could do it.


On the Lynx/Orion the settings for this are not obvious until you 
read the manual.  The OOB mode was one of the options that affected 
it, but there was another one too.  They had diagrams showing the 
pathways you'd create when you set those options in different ways.



On 10/29/2020 2:39 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
On Giga/Apex Plus the ports were mapped 1 to 1, and there wasn't a 
way to change that mapping through the normal means (but Trango 
could by logging in as root and editing a VLAN config file).


On Giga/Apex Lynx the ports are all switched together in the 
default config.  You could change that behavior and the manual 
described a few different modes, but in the default config it 
absolutely did work to use SFP on one side and copper on the other.


I have not used Orion.but it has the same software and 
instruction manual as the Lynx, so I'd bet it's switched together 
on that one too.



On 10/29/2020 2:27 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
It's been years since I've had to mess with the configuration, but 
something is rattling around in the back recesses of my mind.  Can 
you use the Copper port on one end of the link, and the SPF Port 
on the other end of the link? Something keeps popping up in my 
mind about virtual channels between interfaces, and the copper on 
one end only talks to the copper on the other end and same for the 
SFP. Maybe it was a different radio manufacturer that did that?







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Re: [AFMUG] Trango Orion SPF Question

[Adam Moffett]

I just downloaded the manual.  The short version is

IBM ON = both ports are switched together (but you can choose to allow 
mgmt traffic on only a specific one).  If you have IBM ON at both ends 
then you can use either port on either end for service traffic, and 
assuming you only connected one port you should probably make that one 
the mgmt port, but also note that mgmt access is allowed through the RF 
port regardless of which ethernet port is selected for Mgmt.


IBM OFF = both ports are separate.  The Mgmt port only access the radio, 
and the other carries the service traffic.


If you have IBM OFF then whichever port is NOT your mgmt port is the 
service traffic port.  So you could still mix SFP+Copper if you pick 
opposite mgmt ports on each side.  And in this mode it's noteworthy that 
mgmt access is NOT allowed through the RF interface, so mgmt traffic 
must be allowed to pass all the way through to the site's switch/router 
and back up through the second cable to the mgmt port.


That's 5 pages of manual condensed to 4 sentences.

They don't spell it out in the manual, but if IBM is ON then you could 
create a switch loop by connecting both cables to one switch.  I know 
this because I've done it accidentally.  Probably should avoid that.



On 10/29/2020 2:50 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
I read through the manual, and saw all the different modes described, 
but wasn't super clear how you configured those different modes.  It 
looks like the copper and SFP are in the same switch group regardless, 
but you have to choose which port management is on.


On 10/29/2020 1:47 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Now that I think about it more, the Plus had two modes shown in the 
GUI.  I think it was "Smart Mode" or something like that.  In one 
mode all the ports were in one switch group, and in the other mode 
they were separated by internal VLAN's.  If you wanted that VLAN mode 
on, but wanted to get creative like map port 2 on one to port 4 on 
the other, then that was where only Trango support could do it.


On the Lynx/Orion the settings for this are not obvious until you 
read the manual.  The OOB mode was one of the options that affected 
it, but there was another one too.  They had diagrams showing the 
pathways you'd create when you set those options in different ways.



On 10/29/2020 2:39 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
On Giga/Apex Plus the ports were mapped 1 to 1, and there wasn't a 
way to change that mapping through the normal means (but Trango 
could by logging in as root and editing a VLAN config file).


On Giga/Apex Lynx the ports are all switched together in the default 
config.  You could change that behavior and the manual described a 
few different modes, but in the default config it absolutely did 
work to use SFP on one side and copper on the other.


I have not used Orion.but it has the same software and 
instruction manual as the Lynx, so I'd bet it's switched together on 
that one too.



On 10/29/2020 2:27 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
It's been years since I've had to mess with the configuration, but 
something is rattling around in the back recesses of my mind.  Can 
you use the Copper port on one end of the link, and the SPF Port on 
the other end of the link? Something keeps popping up in my mind 
about virtual channels between interfaces, and the copper on one 
end only talks to the copper on the other end and same for the SFP. 
Maybe it was a different radio manufacturer that did that?









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Re: [AFMUG] Trango Orion SPF Question

[Nate Burke]

I read through the manual, and saw all the different modes described, 
but wasn't super clear how you configured those different modes.  It 
looks like the copper and SFP are in the same switch group regardless, 
but you have to choose which port management is on.


On 10/29/2020 1:47 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Now that I think about it more, the Plus had two modes shown in the 
GUI.  I think it was "Smart Mode" or something like that.  In one mode 
all the ports were in one switch group, and in the other mode they 
were separated by internal VLAN's.  If you wanted that VLAN mode on, 
but wanted to get creative like map port 2 on one to port 4 on the 
other, then that was where only Trango support could do it.


On the Lynx/Orion the settings for this are not obvious until you read 
the manual.  The OOB mode was one of the options that affected it, but 
there was another one too.  They had diagrams showing the pathways 
you'd create when you set those options in different ways.



On 10/29/2020 2:39 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
On Giga/Apex Plus the ports were mapped 1 to 1, and there wasn't a 
way to change that mapping through the normal means (but Trango could 
by logging in as root and editing a VLAN config file).


On Giga/Apex Lynx the ports are all switched together in the default 
config.  You could change that behavior and the manual described a 
few different modes, but in the default config it absolutely did work 
to use SFP on one side and copper on the other.


I have not used Orion.but it has the same software and 
instruction manual as the Lynx, so I'd bet it's switched together on 
that one too.



On 10/29/2020 2:27 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
It's been years since I've had to mess with the configuration, but 
something is rattling around in the back recesses of my mind.  Can 
you use the Copper port on one end of the link, and the SPF Port on 
the other end of the link? Something keeps popping up in my mind 
about virtual channels between interfaces, and the copper on one end 
only talks to the copper on the other end and same for the SFP. 
Maybe it was a different radio manufacturer that did that?







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Re: [AFMUG] Trango Orion SPF Question

[Adam Moffett]

Now that I think about it more, the Plus had two modes shown in the 
GUI.  I think it was "Smart Mode" or something like that.  In one mode 
all the ports were in one switch group, and in the other mode they were 
separated by internal VLAN's.  If you wanted that VLAN mode on, but 
wanted to get creative like map port 2 on one to port 4 on the other, 
then that was where only Trango support could do it.


On the Lynx/Orion the settings for this are not obvious until you read 
the manual.  The OOB mode was one of the options that affected it, but 
there was another one too.  They had diagrams showing the pathways you'd 
create when you set those options in different ways.



On 10/29/2020 2:39 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
On Giga/Apex Plus the ports were mapped 1 to 1, and there wasn't a way 
to change that mapping through the normal means (but Trango could by 
logging in as root and editing a VLAN config file).


On Giga/Apex Lynx the ports are all switched together in the default 
config.  You could change that behavior and the manual described a few 
different modes, but in the default config it absolutely did work to 
use SFP on one side and copper on the other.


I have not used Orion.but it has the same software and instruction 
manual as the Lynx, so I'd bet it's switched together on that one too.



On 10/29/2020 2:27 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
It's been years since I've had to mess with the configuration, but 
something is rattling around in the back recesses of my mind.  Can 
you use the Copper port on one end of the link, and the SPF Port on 
the other end of the link? Something keeps popping up in my mind 
about virtual channels between interfaces, and the copper on one end 
only talks to the copper on the other end and same for the SFP. Maybe 
it was a different radio manufacturer that did that?




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Re: [AFMUG] Trango Orion SPF Question

[Adam Moffett]

And in fact, on the Lynx with default config you'd have a switch loop if 
you connected the copper and SFP to the same switch.


On 10/29/2020 2:39 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
On Giga/Apex Plus the ports were mapped 1 to 1, and there wasn't a way 
to change that mapping through the normal means (but Trango could by 
logging in as root and editing a VLAN config file).


On Giga/Apex Lynx the ports are all switched together in the default 
config.  You could change that behavior and the manual described a few 
different modes, but in the default config it absolutely did work to 
use SFP on one side and copper on the other.


I have not used Orion.but it has the same software and instruction 
manual as the Lynx, so I'd bet it's switched together on that one too.



On 10/29/2020 2:27 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
It's been years since I've had to mess with the configuration, but 
something is rattling around in the back recesses of my mind.  Can 
you use the Copper port on one end of the link, and the SPF Port on 
the other end of the link? Something keeps popping up in my mind 
about virtual channels between interfaces, and the copper on one end 
only talks to the copper on the other end and same for the SFP. Maybe 
it was a different radio manufacturer that did that?




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Re: [AFMUG] Trango Orion SPF Question

[Adam Moffett]

On Giga/Apex Plus the ports were mapped 1 to 1, and there wasn't a way 
to change that mapping through the normal means (but Trango could by 
logging in as root and editing a VLAN config file).


On Giga/Apex Lynx the ports are all switched together in the default 
config.  You could change that behavior and the manual described a few 
different modes, but in the default config it absolutely did work to use 
SFP on one side and copper on the other.


I have not used Orion.but it has the same software and instruction 
manual as the Lynx, so I'd bet it's switched together on that one too.



On 10/29/2020 2:27 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
It's been years since I've had to mess with the configuration, but 
something is rattling around in the back recesses of my mind.  Can you 
use the Copper port on one end of the link, and the SPF Port on the 
other end of the link?  Something keeps popping up in my mind about 
virtual channels between interfaces, and the copper on one end only 
talks to the copper on the other end and same for the SFP. Maybe it 
was a different radio manufacturer that did that?




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[AFMUG] Trango Orion SPF Question

[Nate Burke]

It's been years since I've had to mess with the configuration, but 
something is rattling around in the back recesses of my mind.  Can you 
use the Copper port on one end of the link, and the SPF Port on the 
other end of the link?  Something keeps popping up in my mind about 
virtual channels between interfaces, and the copper on one end only 
talks to the copper on the other end and same for the SFP. Maybe it was 
a different radio manufacturer that did that?


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Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

[Robert]

I have been looking into how to set up the MorningStar Mppt-60 for 
LiFePo2 batteries now that a 12v 200AH is $1000 and makes the price very 
equal to doing 6V golf cart batteries from Interstate.   Reading about 
them says that they want constant current at 40 amps to 80% charge ( 
some say 60% ) and then the last 20% at constant voltage until full.   
But that like most Li batteries it's better to not charge above 80% ( is 
that the same loss of capacity as not discharging below 20%? for 100% 
)...   So for the morningstar they have you use the High voltage 
disconnect to stop charging at a certain voltage and leave it at that.   
No Float, No Equal, No Absorb...


On 10/29/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


I don't really know Adam. I know that multi-cell LiFePo batteries need 
(and usually include) a BMU to manage the states/flow between cells, 
and I know that LiFePo batteries don't want (or need) a bulk or 
equalization. Beyond that, I think they just need a different charger, 
but I don't know how sophisticated it needs to be.



bp

On 10/28/2020 3:12 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:


Hi Bill

I thought with the drop in replacements the BMU handled the charging?

*From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 28, 2020 12:37 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

LiFePo (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is considered very safe. Completely 
different charge profile vs lead acid though.


bp


On 10/28/2020 12:32 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

my biggest concern with lithium is im a dolt and dont know for
sure which variants arent prone to explode

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:11 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:

https://batteryhookup.com/

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:11 AM Harold Bledsoe
mailto:hrbled...@outlook.com>> wrote:

I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries for other
applications.  They work well and have a BMS. That said,
they cannot be used with a lead-acid charging profile. 
Another option would be to disable the charger on the UPS
(if possible?) and use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the
batteries.  That will give you more options.

*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>
*Date: *Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 11:44 AM
*To: *'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it
there UPS setups.   Our standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp
hour external batteries on APC or Alpha UPSs.   I read
that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop
in replacements for lead acid.   Are all with built in
BMUs considered drop in?

Any one doing this?   What make and model have you used. 
Price?  Also interested to hear if anyone has purchased
though Alibaba?   Prices look good, but are they too good
to be true?

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Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

[Harold Bledsoe]

Yeah the BMUs in the merit sun ones are handling equalization of the cells 
inside and enforcing limit on over-current etc.  It also determines how many 
series/parallel ones you can have too.

The chargers are pretty basic – they are just a single-stage power supply with 
a fixed current.  They do typically shut off after the batteries are charged.

The problem with a lead acid charger is that they are doing constant current 
until a certain voltage is hit and then switches to constant voltage for how 
long it took to finish the first stage and then switch to float.  The BMU would 
have to do a bit of trickery to make that work and pretend to be a lead acid 
battery.  For reference, the charger for the 48V LiFePO4 system is a single 
stage, 57.6V/20A power supply.

From: AF 
Date: Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 10:18 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

I don't really know Adam. I know that multi-cell LiFePo batteries need (and 
usually include) a BMU to manage the states/flow between cells, and I know that 
LiFePo batteries don't want (or need) a bulk or equalization. Beyond that, I 
think they just need a different charger, but I don't know how sophisticated it 
needs to be.



bp


On 10/28/2020 3:12 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:
Hi Bill

I thought with the drop in replacements the BMU handled the charging?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 12:37 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries


LiFePo (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is considered very safe. Completely different 
charge profile vs lead acid though.



bp


On 10/28/2020 12:32 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
my biggest concern with lithium is im a dolt and dont know for sure which 
variants arent prone to explode

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:11 PM TJ Trout 
mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:
https://batteryhookup.com/

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:11 AM Harold Bledsoe 
mailto:hrbled...@outlook.com>> wrote:
I’ve used the Merit Sun batteries for other applications.  They work well and 
have a BMS.  That said, they cannot be used with a lead-acid charging profile.  
Another option would be to disable the charger on the UPS (if possible?) and 
use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the batteries.  That will give you more 
options.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>
Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 11:44 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries
Is anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid it there UPS setups.   Our 
standard setup is 4 12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or Alpha UPSs.   
I read that some of the LiFePO4 12v Lithium batteries are drop in replacements 
for lead acid.   Are all with built in BMUs considered drop in?

Any one doing this?   What make and model have you used.  Price?  Also 
interested to hear if anyone has purchased though Alibaba?   Prices look good, 
but are they too good to be true?
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Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement batteries

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I don't really know Adam. I know that multi-cell LiFePo batteries
  need (and usually include) a BMU to manage the states/flow between
  cells, and I know that LiFePo batteries don't want (or need) a
  bulk or equalization. Beyond that, I think they just need a
  different charger, but I don't know how sophisticated it needs to
  be.


bp

On 10/28/2020 3:12 PM, SmarterBroadband
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
Hi Bill
 
I thought with the drop in replacements the
  BMU handled the charging?
 

  
From: AF
  [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill
  Prince
  Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 12:37 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid replacement
  batteries
  

 
LiFePo (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is considered very safe.
  Completely different charge profile vs lead acid though.
 
bp


  On 10/28/2020 12:32 PM, Steve Jones
wrote:


  
my biggest concern with lithium is im
  a dolt and dont know for sure which variants arent prone
  to explode
  
   
  

  On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:11 PM TJ
Trout  wrote:


  
https://batteryhookup.com/
  
   
  

  On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:11 AM
Harold Bledsoe 
wrote:


  

  I’ve
used the Merit Sun batteries for other
applications.  They work well and have a BMS. 
That said, they cannot be used with a lead-acid
charging profile.  Another option would be to
disable the charger on the UPS (if possible?)
and use a separate LiFePO4 charger for the
batteries.  That will give you more options.
   
  
From:
AF 
Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at
11:44 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group' 
Subject: [AFMUG] Lithium lead acid
replacement batteries
  
  Is
anyone using Lithium replacements for lead acid
it there UPS setups.   Our standard setup is 4
12v 100 amp hour external batteries on APC or
Alpha UPSs.   I read that some of the LiFePO4
12v Lithium batteries are drop in replacements
for lead acid.   Are all with built in BMUs
considered drop in?
   
  Any
one doing this?   What make and model have you
used.  Price?  Also interested to hear if anyone
has purchased though Alibaba?   Prices look
good, but are they too good to be true?

  
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  -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Silos

[Steve Jones]

When we went on a harvestore I read about them, they are beasts. And at one
point a rep had to inspect foundation before election, they were mad crazy
expensive to build.

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 9:45 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Most of the silos around here aren't used anymore and sit empty (both
> cement and harvestore)... I don't think if I've ever seen, or even heard
> of, a collapsed Harvestore that didn't have a tornado involved.
>
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 8:52 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> My understanding was the concrete silos with the bands are plenty strong,
>> empty or full, but that the silage in a Harvestore is structural and they
>> are weak when empty.
>>
>>
>>
>> Watch this video:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nljxk1auzHQ
>>
>>
>>
>> There are also videos like this one, and I just don’t see how you mount
>> antennas, especially licensed dishes, at the top of a Harvestore.  He also
>> mentions the bags they inflate to replace the silage as they empty the silo
>> to prevent a collapse.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdsm4BdM5Gs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *David Coudron
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2020 7:48 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Silos
>>
>>
>>
>> While we certainly haven’t done the engineering work on it, I think that
>> most cement stave silos are never really full.   We had one on the dairy
>> farm when we were kids.   Even when we fill it all the way up the top is
>> never really full since you need enough room to operate the silo
>> unloader.   So the top 3-4 ft, maybe more is empty.   And, you unload top
>> down in a cement stave silo, so after the first day of use, the silo is
>> already getting emptier on the top.   So I think there never is really much
>> added strength on the top rows of staves where we would mount from the silo
>> being full.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2020 7:35 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Silos
>>
>>
>>
>> Somewhat related: is it safe to mount a bunch of equipment on an empt
>> silo?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 27, 2020, at 8:08 PM, David Coudron 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Yes,
>>
>>
>>
>> There was  recent thread we started about cement stave silos that folks
>> really helped us out on.For Harvestor silos, we usually brace the upper
>> rail to make it sturdier.   Biggest thing is we don’t mount very high on
>> those.   We keep the radios no higher than the top railing.   For the
>> cement stave silos, here is what folks came up with, we are just now making
>> the same brackets.  Picture attached:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *David Coudron*
>>
>> david.coud...@advantenon.com  |  *Mobile: *612-991-7474
>>
>>
>>
>> *Advantenon, Inc.  *
>>
>> i...@advantenon.com  |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
>> 55447  |  www.advantenon.com  |  *Phone:* 800-704-4720  |  *Local: *
>> 612-454-1545
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jeremy Grip
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2020 3:42 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Silos
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I know I’ve seen posts in the dimly remembered past about approaches to
>> mounting gear to silos, but…
>>
>>
>>
>> Looking for approaches to mounting radios, antennas (3.65 and licensed
>> backhaul--Cambium/Ceragon, 1-2ft dishes) to both concrete and blue
>> harvestore silos. Can’t believe how flimsy the guardrails on top of those
>> harvestores are.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Grip
>>
>> North Branch Networks
>>
>> 
>>
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