Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600

[Steve Jones]

i gotchu fam.

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 4:46 PM  wrote:

> Maybe I need a sarcasm filter.
>
> Nobody should do any of this, these are not serious “solutions”, and
> there’s no “EIRP Problem”.  The EIRP limit (and other rules) are there to
> protect incumbent licensed operators who have invested a small fortune into
> radio equipment they are relying on to provide critical communication
> services as well as to protect the new unlicensed users from harming each
> other.  Anybody who does any of the things in those bullet points should be
> flogged.
>
>
>
> ….but there’s also nothing new here.  People will misconfigure EIRP and
> install bigger antennas out of ignorance even if they’re an upright
> citizen.  Hell I’m getting the impression from Peter Kranz’s original
> question that he didn’t even know there was an EIRP limit.  So that’s
> exhibit A.  The people who would use hacked or international radios know
> exactly what they’re doing and if they don’t already know how to get them
> then they’ll learn it from Reddit, or from shady vendors, or they’ll figure
> it out by accident when they buy a foreign model off EBay.   Or they’re
> already doing it.
>
>
>
> My point is 6ghz is not going to be safe for licensed PTP anymore.  Maybe
> I’m being pessimistic about it.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 06, 2023 5:29 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600
>
>
>
> I'm baffled that you would even propose or share that information
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2023, 1:56 PM  wrote:
>
> The industry already has solutions to the EIRP problem.
>
>
>
>- Buy international units set to follow the rules in Russia or Hong
>Kong and then you can run any channel you want at whatever power you want.
>- Alter the firmware on a US unit to enable rules for another country
>or maybe put it in an engineering test mode with no limitations.
>- “Misconfigure” the antenna gain so you can turn up the Tx power.
>- If antenna gain can’t be adjusted in the config, then buy integrated
>units with small antennas and then run pigtails off the circuit board to a
>bigger antenna
>
>
>
> You shouldn’t really do any of this, but all of those “solutions” have
> been seen in the wild.  For awhile you could factory reset AirMax gear and
> then on first login just pick whatever country you wanted.  I knew a guy
> who did that for all of his PTP links and I got him in trouble with his
> boss.  Or at least his boss pretended he was in trouble, but for all I know
> maybe they started laughing together as soon as I was out of the room.
>
>
>
> If I had 6ghz licensed links right now I would be coming up with
> contingency plans for if/when they get trashed by some jabroni.  Like the
> private pool is about to become a public pool and you know all the
> neighborhood kids are gonna pee in it.  It might be time to look for
> another pool.  Just saying.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 06, 2023 3:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600
>
>
>
> 36dbm is max for 6ghz, and that is assuming an SM with built in GPS.  SMs
> without GPS will be limited to 30dbm.  I haven't used any Mimosa, but I bet
> they will limit it to the same EIRP if you set them up with the correct
> antenna gain.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 1:56 PM Peter Kranz via AF  wrote:
>
> I currently have a few experimental 6Ghz licenses, where we have been
> trialing the Mimosa A6 equipment. So far the A6 has not been super stable,
> although the performance when it is stable was exciting at > 800 Mbps for
> subs. Also has problems with timing for customers past 5 miles or so.
>
>
>
> Anyway, I’m thinking of switching gears to Cambium’s 4600 platform to have
> something more stable. Am I correct in that Cambium is limiting the EIRP of
> the SMs to 36db? So the 25db subscriber dish transmits into the dish at +11?
>
>
>
> This sounds like the solution is limited to about 4-5 miles as a result..
> Am I missing something here?
>
>
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600

[Mike Hammett]

I got what you threw down the first time. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 4:46:00 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600 



Maybe I need a sarcasm filter. 
Nobody should do any of this, these are not serious “solutions”, and there’s no 
“EIRP Problem”. The EIRP limit (and other rules) are there to protect incumbent 
licensed operators who have invested a small fortune into radio equipment they 
are relying on to provide critical communication services as well as to protect 
the new unlicensed users from harming each other. Anybody who does any of the 
things in those bullet points should be flogged. 

….but there’s also nothing new here. People will misconfigure EIRP and install 
bigger antennas out of ignorance even if they’re an upright citizen. Hell I’m 
getting the impression from Peter Kranz’s original question that he didn’t even 
know there was an EIRP limit. So that’s exhibit A. The people who would use 
hacked or international radios know exactly what they’re doing and if they 
don’t already know how to get them then they’ll learn it from Reddit, or from 
shady vendors, or they’ll figure it out by accident when they buy a foreign 
model off EBay. Or they’re already doing it. 

My point is 6ghz is not going to be safe for licensed PTP anymore. Maybe I’m 
being pessimistic about it. 




From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout 
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2023 5:29 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600 


I'm baffled that you would even propose or share that information 







On Wed, Sep 6, 2023, 1:56 PM < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 




The industry already has solutions to the EIRP problem. 


* Buy international units set to follow the rules in Russia or Hong Kong 
and then you can run any channel you want at whatever power you want. 
* Alter the firmware on a US unit to enable rules for another country or 
maybe put it in an engineering test mode with no limitations. 
* “Misconfigure” the antenna gain so you can turn up the Tx power. 
* If antenna gain can’t be adjusted in the config, then buy integrated 
units with small antennas and then run pigtails off the circuit board to a 
bigger antenna 


You shouldn’t really do any of this, but all of those “solutions” have been 
seen in the wild. For awhile you could factory reset AirMax gear and then on 
first login just pick whatever country you wanted. I knew a guy who did that 
for all of his PTP links and I got him in trouble with his boss. Or at least 
his boss pretended he was in trouble, but for all I know maybe they started 
laughing together as soon as I was out of the room. 

If I had 6ghz licensed links right now I would be coming up with contingency 
plans for if/when they get trashed by some jabroni. Like the private pool is 
about to become a public pool and you know all the neighborhood kids are gonna 
pee in it. It might be time to look for another pool. Just saying. 

-Adam 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of castarritt 
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2023 3:03 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600 


36dbm is max for 6ghz, and that is assuming an SM with built in GPS. SMs 
without GPS will be limited to 30dbm. I haven't used any Mimosa, but I bet they 
will limit it to the same EIRP if you set them up with the correct antenna 
gain. 



On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 1:56 PM Peter Kranz via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 





I currently have a few experimental 6Ghz licenses, where we have been trialing 
the Mimosa A6 equipment. So far the A6 has not been super stable, although the 
performance when it is stable was exciting at > 800 Mbps for subs. Also has 
problems with timing for customers past 5 miles or so. 

Anyway, I’m thinking of switching gears to Cambium’s 4600 platform to have 
something more stable. Am I correct in that Cambium is limiting the EIRP of the 
SMs to 36db? So the 25db subscriber dish transmits into the dish at +11? 

This sounds like the solution is limited to about 4-5 miles as a result.. Am I 
missing something here? 

Peter Kranz 
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
Mobile: 510-207- 
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600

[dmmoffett]

Maybe I need a sarcasm filter.  

Nobody should do any of this, these are not serious “solutions”, and there’s no 
“EIRP Problem”.  The EIRP limit (and other rules) are there to protect 
incumbent licensed operators who have invested a small fortune into radio 
equipment they are relying on to provide critical communication services as 
well as to protect the new unlicensed users from harming each other.  Anybody 
who does any of the things in those bullet points should be flogged.

 

….but there’s also nothing new here.  People will misconfigure EIRP and install 
bigger antennas out of ignorance even if they’re an upright citizen.  Hell I’m 
getting the impression from Peter Kranz’s original question that he didn’t even 
know there was an EIRP limit.  So that’s exhibit A.  The people who would use 
hacked or international radios know exactly what they’re doing and if they 
don’t already know how to get them then they’ll learn it from Reddit, or from 
shady vendors, or they’ll figure it out by accident when they buy a foreign 
model off EBay.   Or they’re already doing it.

 

My point is 6ghz is not going to be safe for licensed PTP anymore.  Maybe I’m 
being pessimistic about it.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2023 5:29 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600

 

I'm baffled that you would even propose or share that information

 

 

 

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023, 1:56 PM mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:

The industry already has solutions to the EIRP problem.

 

*   Buy international units set to follow the rules in Russia or Hong Kong 
and then you can run any channel you want at whatever power you want.
*   Alter the firmware on a US unit to enable rules for another country or 
maybe put it in an engineering test mode with no limitations.
*   “Misconfigure” the antenna gain so you can turn up the Tx power.
*   If antenna gain can’t be adjusted in the config, then buy integrated 
units with small antennas and then run pigtails off the circuit board to a 
bigger antenna 

 

You shouldn’t really do any of this, but all of those “solutions” have been 
seen in the wild.  For awhile you could factory reset AirMax gear and then on 
first login just pick whatever country you wanted.  I knew a guy who did that 
for all of his PTP links and I got him in trouble with his boss.  Or at least 
his boss pretended he was in trouble, but for all I know maybe they started 
laughing together as soon as I was out of the room.  

 

If I had 6ghz licensed links right now I would be coming up with contingency 
plans for if/when they get trashed by some jabroni.  Like the private pool is 
about to become a public pool and you know all the neighborhood kids are gonna 
pee in it.  It might be time to look for another pool.  Just saying.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of castarritt
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2023 3:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600

 

36dbm is max for 6ghz, and that is assuming an SM with built in GPS.  SMs 
without GPS will be limited to 30dbm.  I haven't used any Mimosa, but I bet 
they will limit it to the same EIRP if you set them up with the correct antenna 
gain.

 

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 1:56 PM Peter Kranz via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

I currently have a few experimental 6Ghz licenses, where we have been trialing 
the Mimosa A6 equipment. So far the A6 has not been super stable, although the 
performance when it is stable was exciting at > 800 Mbps for subs. Also has 
problems with timing for customers past 5 miles or so.

 

Anyway, I’m thinking of switching gears to Cambium’s 4600 platform to have 
something more stable. Am I correct in that Cambium is limiting the EIRP of the 
SMs to 36db? So the 25db subscriber dish transmits into the dish at +11?

 

This sounds like the solution is limited to about 4-5 miles as a result.. Am I 
missing something here? 

 

Peter Kranz
 <http://www.unwiredltd.com/> www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
 <mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com> pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Yeah, that is completely illegal and that sort of thing gives our entire industry a bad name.On top of that, if you go to sell, you are going to have a major CF on your hands.Jeff BroadwickCTIconnect312-205-2519 Office574-220-7826 Celljbroadw...@cticonnect.comOn Sep 6, 2023, at 4:56 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:The industry already has solutions to the EIRP problem. Buy international units set to follow the rules in Russia or Hong Kong and then you can run any channel you want at whatever power you want.Alter the firmware on a US unit to enable rules for another country or maybe put it in an engineering test mode with no limitations.“Misconfigure” the antenna gain so you can turn up the Tx power.If antenna gain can’t be adjusted in the config, then buy integrated units with small antennas and then run pigtails off the circuit board to a bigger antenna  You shouldn’t really do any of this, but all of those “solutions” have been seen in the wild.  For awhile you could factory reset AirMax gear and then on first login just pick whatever country you wanted.  I knew a guy who did that for all of his PTP links and I got him in trouble with his boss.  Or at least his boss pretended he was in trouble, but for all I know maybe they started laughing together as soon as I was out of the room.   If I had 6ghz licensed links right now I would be coming up with contingency plans for if/when they get trashed by some jabroni.  Like the private pool is about to become a public pool and you know all the neighborhood kids are gonna pee in it.  It might be time to look for another pool.  Just saying. -Adam  From: AF  On Behalf Of castarrittSent: Wednesday, September 06, 2023 3:03 PMTo: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600 36dbm is max for 6ghz, and that is assuming an SM with built in GPS.  SMs without GPS will be limited to 30dbm.  I haven't used any Mimosa, but I bet they will limit it to the same EIRP if you set them up with the correct antenna gain. On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 1:56 PM Peter Kranz via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote:I currently have a few experimental 6Ghz licenses, where we have been trialing the Mimosa A6 equipment. So far the A6 has not been super stable, although the performance when it is stable was exciting at > 800 Mbps for subs. Also has problems with timing for customers past 5 miles or so. Anyway, I’m thinking of switching gears to Cambium’s 4600 platform to have something more stable. Am I correct in that Cambium is limiting the EIRP of the SMs to 36db? So the 25db subscriber dish transmits into the dish at +11? This sounds like the solution is limited to about 4-5 miles as a result.. Am I missing something here?  Peter Kranzwww.UnwiredLtd.comDesk: 510-868-1614 x100Mobile: 510-207-pkr...@unwiredltd.com -- AF mailing listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com-- AF mailing listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600

[TJ Trout]

I'm baffled that you would even propose or share that information



On Wed, Sep 6, 2023, 1:56 PM  wrote:

> The industry already has solutions to the EIRP problem.
>
>
>
>- Buy international units set to follow the rules in Russia or Hong
>Kong and then you can run any channel you want at whatever power you want.
>- Alter the firmware on a US unit to enable rules for another country
>or maybe put it in an engineering test mode with no limitations.
>- “Misconfigure” the antenna gain so you can turn up the Tx power.
>- If antenna gain can’t be adjusted in the config, then buy integrated
>units with small antennas and then run pigtails off the circuit board to a
>bigger antenna
>
>
>
> You shouldn’t really do any of this, but all of those “solutions” have
> been seen in the wild.  For awhile you could factory reset AirMax gear and
> then on first login just pick whatever country you wanted.  I knew a guy
> who did that for all of his PTP links and I got him in trouble with his
> boss.  Or at least his boss pretended he was in trouble, but for all I know
> maybe they started laughing together as soon as I was out of the room.
>
>
>
> If I had 6ghz licensed links right now I would be coming up with
> contingency plans for if/when they get trashed by some jabroni.  Like the
> private pool is about to become a public pool and you know all the
> neighborhood kids are gonna pee in it.  It might be time to look for
> another pool.  Just saying.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 06, 2023 3:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600
>
>
>
> 36dbm is max for 6ghz, and that is assuming an SM with built in GPS.  SMs
> without GPS will be limited to 30dbm.  I haven't used any Mimosa, but I bet
> they will limit it to the same EIRP if you set them up with the correct
> antenna gain.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 1:56 PM Peter Kranz via AF  wrote:
>
> I currently have a few experimental 6Ghz licenses, where we have been
> trialing the Mimosa A6 equipment. So far the A6 has not been super stable,
> although the performance when it is stable was exciting at > 800 Mbps for
> subs. Also has problems with timing for customers past 5 miles or so.
>
>
>
> Anyway, I’m thinking of switching gears to Cambium’s 4600 platform to have
> something more stable. Am I correct in that Cambium is limiting the EIRP of
> the SMs to 36db? So the 25db subscriber dish transmits into the dish at +11?
>
>
>
> This sounds like the solution is limited to about 4-5 miles as a result..
> Am I missing something here?
>
>
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600

[dmmoffett]

The industry already has solutions to the EIRP problem.

 

*   Buy international units set to follow the rules in Russia or Hong Kong 
and then you can run any channel you want at whatever power you want.
*   Alter the firmware on a US unit to enable rules for another country or 
maybe put it in an engineering test mode with no limitations.
*   “Misconfigure” the antenna gain so you can turn up the Tx power.
*   If antenna gain can’t be adjusted in the config, then buy integrated 
units with small antennas and then run pigtails off the circuit board to a 
bigger antenna 

 

You shouldn’t really do any of this, but all of those “solutions” have been 
seen in the wild.  For awhile you could factory reset AirMax gear and then on 
first login just pick whatever country you wanted.  I knew a guy who did that 
for all of his PTP links and I got him in trouble with his boss.  Or at least 
his boss pretended he was in trouble, but for all I know maybe they started 
laughing together as soon as I was out of the room.  

 

If I had 6ghz licensed links right now I would be coming up with contingency 
plans for if/when they get trashed by some jabroni.  Like the private pool is 
about to become a public pool and you know all the neighborhood kids are gonna 
pee in it.  It might be time to look for another pool.  Just saying.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of castarritt
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2023 3:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600

 

36dbm is max for 6ghz, and that is assuming an SM with built in GPS.  SMs 
without GPS will be limited to 30dbm.  I haven't used any Mimosa, but I bet 
they will limit it to the same EIRP if you set them up with the correct antenna 
gain.

 

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 1:56 PM Peter Kranz via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

I currently have a few experimental 6Ghz licenses, where we have been trialing 
the Mimosa A6 equipment. So far the A6 has not been super stable, although the 
performance when it is stable was exciting at > 800 Mbps for subs. Also has 
problems with timing for customers past 5 miles or so.

 

Anyway, I’m thinking of switching gears to Cambium’s 4600 platform to have 
something more stable. Am I correct in that Cambium is limiting the EIRP of the 
SMs to 36db? So the 25db subscriber dish transmits into the dish at +11?

 

This sounds like the solution is limited to about 4-5 miles as a result.. Am I 
missing something here? 

 

Peter Kranz
 <http://www.unwiredltd.com/> www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
 <mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com> pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600

[castarritt]

36dbm is max for 6ghz, and that is assuming an SM with built in GPS.  SMs
without GPS will be limited to 30dbm.  I haven't used any Mimosa, but I bet
they will limit it to the same EIRP if you set them up with the correct
antenna gain.

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 1:56 PM Peter Kranz via AF  wrote:

> I currently have a few experimental 6Ghz licenses, where we have been
> trialing the Mimosa A6 equipment. So far the A6 has not been super stable,
> although the performance when it is stable was exciting at > 800 Mbps for
> subs. Also has problems with timing for customers past 5 miles or so.
>
>
>
> Anyway, I’m thinking of switching gears to Cambium’s 4600 platform to have
> something more stable. Am I correct in that Cambium is limiting the EIRP of
> the SMs to 36db? So the 25db subscriber dish transmits into the dish at +11?
>
>
>
> This sounds like the solution is limited to about 4-5 miles as a result..
> Am I missing something here?
>
>
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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[AFMUG] EPMP4600

[Peter Kranz via AF]

I currently have a few experimental 6Ghz licenses, where we have been
trialing the Mimosa A6 equipment. So far the A6 has not been super stable,
although the performance when it is stable was exciting at > 800 Mbps for
subs. Also has problems with timing for customers past 5 miles or so.

 

Anyway, I'm thinking of switching gears to Cambium's 4600 platform to have
something more stable. Am I correct in that Cambium is limiting the EIRP of
the SMs to 36db? So the 25db subscriber dish transmits into the dish at +11?

 

This sounds like the solution is limited to about 4-5 miles as a result.. Am
I missing something here? 

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

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