Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread Ken Hohhof 
We are in a rural area.  All the old houses have lightning rods.  Almost none 
of the new ones do.  I’m unclear why they used to be needed but aren’t now.

 

You could say they were just a scam by door-to-door lightning rod salesmen, but 
I suspect not.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

 

Seat belts, covid masks, surge suppressors... safety glasses, ear plugs...  
vaccines, vitamins, exercise...

Religion, politics, health insurance, lottery...   Lots of things have 
believers.  

 

I know in the early days of telephone, people were getting killed by talking on 
the phone during thunderstorms.  So the first surge suppressors were invented.  
They were called protectors.  And the phone companies all started publishing a 
notice in the phone book about not talking on the phone during storms.  

 

My first telco job, first job task, first morning on the job,  was to clean the 
carbon blocks on protectors after a thunderstorm rolled through Mt. Vernon, 
Oregon the night before.   The surges would blast chunks of graphite off one 
side of the air gap and contaminate the air gap noising up the phone line.  You 
would take them out, wipe the two halves on your jeans and put them back 
together.  

 

The central office protectors almost never got hit, but the ones at the house 
did.  This is somewhat analogous to top of tower and bottom of tower.  

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 9:19 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

 

It would be nice of us users to report damage done vs installed method.  Maybe 
set up a form if you're feeling frisky :)


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:12 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

I don’t have data.  Hard to replicate strikes and do A/B tests.

 

Some folks believe surge suppressors are simply snake oil.  I can’t find my 
folder of all the photos sent to me over the years where the surge suppressor 
is nothing but a charred black crisp but the radio and the customers equipment 
were OK.  

 

Direct strikes kills everything including your hot water heater and your 
microwave.  

 

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 9:02 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

 

The Tik was definitely not damaged.  Did the surge suppressors protect it?  I 
don't know, I guess that's part of my question here. 

 

Never seen a surge suppressor blown I don't think.  Never seen one charred.  I 
have had to swap them out in a few cases to fix ethernet problems.

 

>Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some at top 
>and bottom. 

Do you have any data on which is best?

 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:49 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

OK, but did the surge suppressors protect the Tik?  

 

Nearby strikes induce hundreds to thousands of volts per meter in all 
conductors.  

Most of the stories I hear is that the surge suppressor is blown to bits but 
the devices it is connected to are OK.  

But the closer the strike, the more damage.  

 

Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some at top 
and bottom.  

 

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:35 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

 

The Tik is grounded to the bus bar.  The surge cards use the WBMFG metal boxes 
which ground to the same ground, but a different bus bar.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:30 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

And was the Tik connected to the surge suppressors?

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:21 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

 

Surge cards are only inside the building. 


We lost 0 ethernet ports on the Tik.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

We’ve gone to the “Cat6” (gas tube) versions but I don’t think that has any 
bearing on your question, if anything they may offer less protection, but 
better Ethernet data integrity.

 

Are you putting these at both ends of the cable, or only at the switch or 
router end?

 

I never assume they protect the radios, unless the surge is coming from the 
network side, e.g. a power line surge.  They protect the network equipment like 
s

Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread chuck 
Seat belts, covid masks, surge suppressors... safety glasses, ear plugs...  
vaccines, vitamins, exercise...
Religion, politics, health insurance, lottery...   Lots of things have 
believers.  

I know in the early days of telephone, people were getting killed by talking on 
the phone during thunderstorms.  So the first surge suppressors were invented.  
They were called protectors.  And the phone companies all started publishing a 
notice in the phone book about not talking on the phone during storms.  

My first telco job, first job task, first morning on the job,  was to clean the 
carbon blocks on protectors after a thunderstorm rolled through Mt. Vernon, 
Oregon the night before.   The surges would blast chunks of graphite off one 
side of the air gap and contaminate the air gap noising up the phone line.  You 
would take them out, wipe the two halves on your jeans and put them back 
together.  

The central office protectors almost never got hit, but the ones at the house 
did.  This is somewhat analogous to top of tower and bottom of tower.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 9:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

It would be nice of us users to report damage done vs installed method.  Maybe 
set up a form if you're feeling frisky :)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:12 AM  wrote:

  I don’t have data.  Hard to replicate strikes and do A/B tests.

  Some folks believe surge suppressors are simply snake oil.  I can’t find my 
folder of all the photos sent to me over the years where the surge suppressor 
is nothing but a charred black crisp but the radio and the customers equipment 
were OK.  

  Direct strikes kills everything including your hot water heater and your 
microwave.  


  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 9:02 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

  The Tik was definitely not damaged.  Did the surge suppressors protect it?  I 
don't know, I guess that's part of my question here. 

  Never seen a surge suppressor blown I don't think.  Never seen one charred.  
I have had to swap them out in a few cases to fix ethernet problems.

  >Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some at 
top and bottom. 

  Do you have any data on which is best?

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:49 AM  wrote:

OK, but did the surge suppressors protect the Tik?  

Nearby strikes induce hundreds to thousands of volts per meter in all 
conductors.  
Most of the stories I hear is that the surge suppressor is blown to bits 
but the devices it is connected to are OK.  
But the closer the strike, the more damage.  

Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some at 
top and bottom.  


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:35 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

The Tik is grounded to the bus bar.  The surge cards use the WBMFG metal 
boxes which ground to the same ground, but a different bus bar.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:30 AM  wrote:

  And was the Tik connected to the surge suppressors?

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:21 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

  Surge cards are only inside the building. 

  We lost 0 ethernet ports on the Tik.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

We’ve gone to the “Cat6” (gas tube) versions but I don’t think that has 
any bearing on your question, if anything they may offer less protection, but 
better Ethernet data integrity.



Are you putting these at both ends of the cable, or only at the switch 
or router end?



I never assume they protect the radios, unless the surge is coming from 
the network side, e.g. a power line surge.  They protect the network equipment 
like switch, router or POE.  If the surge is coming from the radio end, my 
personal opinion is a surge protector may actually increase the chance of radio 
damage by giving the surge a path to ground via the cable.  But let’s face it, 
if the tower take a hit, you may lose equipment no matter what you do for 
grounding or surge protection.  Best bet may be fiber for data and a direct 
power cable with a DC surge protector right at the radio.



Strange t

Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread Josh Luthman 
It would be nice of us users to report damage done vs installed method.
Maybe set up a form if you're feeling frisky :)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:12 AM  wrote:

> I don’t have data.  Hard to replicate strikes and do A/B tests.
>
> Some folks believe surge suppressors are simply snake oil.  I can’t find
> my folder of all the photos sent to me over the years where the surge
> suppressor is nothing but a charred black crisp but the radio and the
> customers equipment were OK.
>
> Direct strikes kills everything including your hot water heater and your
> microwave.
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2020 9:02 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?
>
> The Tik was definitely not damaged.  Did the surge suppressors protect
> it?  I don't know, I guess that's part of my question here.
>
> Never seen a surge suppressor blown I don't think.  Never seen one
> charred.  I have had to swap them out in a few cases to fix ethernet
> problems.
>
> >Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some at
> top and bottom.
> Do you have any data on which is best?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:49 AM  wrote:
>
>> OK, but did the surge suppressors protect the Tik?
>>
>> Nearby strikes induce hundreds to thousands of volts per meter in all
>> conductors.
>> Most of the stories I hear is that the surge suppressor is blown to bits
>> but the devices it is connected to are OK.
>> But the closer the strike, the more damage.
>>
>> Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some at
>> top and bottom.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2020 8:35 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?
>>
>> The Tik is grounded to the bus bar.  The surge cards use the WBMFG metal
>> boxes which ground to the same ground, but a different bus bar.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:30 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> And was the Tik connected to the surge suppressors?
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2020 8:21 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?
>>>
>>> Surge cards are only inside the building.
>>>
>>> We lost 0 ethernet ports on the Tik.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>>> We’ve gone to the “Cat6” (gas tube) versions but I don’t think that has
>>>> any bearing on your question, if anything they may offer less protection,
>>>> but better Ethernet data integrity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you putting these at both ends of the cable, or only at the switch
>>>> or router end?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I never assume they protect the radios, unless the surge is coming from
>>>> the network side, e.g. a power line surge.  They protect the network
>>>> equipment like switch, router or POE.  If the surge is coming from the
>>>> radio end, my personal opinion is a surge protector may actually increase
>>>> the chance of radio damage by giving the surge a path to ground via the
>>>> cable.  But let’s face it, if the tower take a hit, you may lose equipment
>>>> no matter what you do for grounding or surge protection.  Best bet may be
>>>> fiber for data and a direct power cable with a DC surge protector right at
>>>> the radio.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Strange that the Powerbridge was the only survivor, as you say, it’s
>>>> not exactly a high end piece of equipment, basically a Rocket PCB built
>>>> into a panel antenna.  But it might be interesting to do a failure analysis
>>>> on the stuff that died.  Most of the time I find it’s the power supply that
>>>> got fried, the

Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread chuck 
I don’t have data.  Hard to replicate strikes and do A/B tests.

Some folks believe surge suppressors are simply snake oil.  I can’t find my 
folder of all the photos sent to me over the years where the surge suppressor 
is nothing but a charred black crisp but the radio and the customers equipment 
were OK.  

Direct strikes kills everything including your hot water heater and your 
microwave.  


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 9:02 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

The Tik was definitely not damaged.  Did the surge suppressors protect it?  I 
don't know, I guess that's part of my question here. 

Never seen a surge suppressor blown I don't think.  Never seen one charred.  I 
have had to swap them out in a few cases to fix ethernet problems.

>Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some at top 
>and bottom. 

Do you have any data on which is best?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:49 AM  wrote:

  OK, but did the surge suppressors protect the Tik?  

  Nearby strikes induce hundreds to thousands of volts per meter in all 
conductors.  
  Most of the stories I hear is that the surge suppressor is blown to bits but 
the devices it is connected to are OK.  
  But the closer the strike, the more damage.  

  Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some at top 
and bottom.  


  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:35 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

  The Tik is grounded to the bus bar.  The surge cards use the WBMFG metal 
boxes which ground to the same ground, but a different bus bar.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:30 AM  wrote:

And was the Tik connected to the surge suppressors?

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:21 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

Surge cards are only inside the building. 

We lost 0 ethernet ports on the Tik.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  We’ve gone to the “Cat6” (gas tube) versions but I don’t think that has 
any bearing on your question, if anything they may offer less protection, but 
better Ethernet data integrity.



  Are you putting these at both ends of the cable, or only at the switch or 
router end?



  I never assume they protect the radios, unless the surge is coming from 
the network side, e.g. a power line surge.  They protect the network equipment 
like switch, router or POE.  If the surge is coming from the radio end, my 
personal opinion is a surge protector may actually increase the chance of radio 
damage by giving the surge a path to ground via the cable.  But let’s face it, 
if the tower take a hit, you may lose equipment no matter what you do for 
grounding or surge protection.  Best bet may be fiber for data and a direct 
power cable with a DC surge protector right at the radio.



  Strange that the Powerbridge was the only survivor, as you say, it’s not 
exactly a high end piece of equipment, basically a Rocket PCB built into a 
panel antenna.  But it might be interesting to do a failure analysis on the 
stuff that died.  Most of the time I find it’s the power supply that got fried, 
the radio won’t even power up.  I looked at a Transtector product once that had 
fuses in the protection modules, that would seem to mean you always have to 
replace the modules after a surge, but maybe the fuse opening up is better for 
the radio.



  I suspect you just had a bad day.  It happens despite best efforts.  



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:27 AM
  To: AFMUG 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?



  I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively for years 
we've been using the GIGE-APC-HV.



  On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them.  We've had 0 problems on 
this tower since adding the surge cards almost 6 years ago.  A mix of 
Ubnt/Cambium.  The one device that survived was a Powerbridge (the shitty 
panel) with one of the old surge cards that has an LED on it indicating power.  
All 8 other devices needed to be replaced on the tower.



  What should I expect the surge cards to do?  I keep reading that the card 
should sacrifice itself so we can just replace the card on the ground instead 
of the radio on the tower - better for a 1 person fix, way cheaper, ground 
instead of tower, faster, etc.  The tower owner is a big Motorola R56

Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread dave 

Josh,
 Call me around 11 CST if you can..
Thanks


On 8/31/20 8:27 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively for years 
we've been using the GIGE-APC-HV.


On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them.  We've had 0 problems on 
this tower since adding the surge cards almost 6 years ago.  A mix of 
Ubnt/Cambium.  The one device that survived was a Powerbridge (the 
shitty panel) with one of the old surge cards that has an LED on it 
indicating power.  All 8 other devices needed to be replaced on the tower.


What should I expect the surge cards to do?  I keep reading that the 
card should sacrifice itself so we can just replace the card on the 
ground instead of the radio on the tower - better for a 1 person fix, 
way cheaper, ground instead of tower, faster, etc.  The tower owner is 
a big Motorola R56 guy and gave us the thumbs up with how we did the 
grounding.


Did I just get screwed hard for some reason?  An employee of the tower 
owner came out and had to fix some of their gear for their two way 
Motorola radio stuff, too, so maybe it was just a really shitty day.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread Adam Moffett 
I'm always torn about having one at the top.   Seems like one more thing 
that might leak or give me an issue.  For a lot of WISP equipment, the 
cost of replacing it vs the cost of replacing a blown SS is irrelevant 
compared to the cost of the downtime and the tower climber.


Maybe I'm wrong.  I'm open to other opinions.


On 8/31/2020 10:48 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

OK, but did the surge suppressors protect the Tik?
Nearby strikes induce hundreds to thousands of volts per meter in all 
conductors.
Most of the stories I hear is that the surge suppressor is blown to 
bits but the devices it is connected to are OK.

But the closer the strike, the more damage.
Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some 
at top and bottom.

*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2020 8:35 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?
The Tik is grounded to the bus bar.  The surge cards use the WBMFG 
metal boxes which ground to the same ground, but a different bus bar.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:30 AM  wrote:

And was the Tik connected to the surge suppressors?
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2020 8:21 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?
Surge cards are only inside the building.

We lost 0 ethernet ports on the Tik.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

We’ve gone to the “Cat6” (gas tube) versions but I don’t think
that has any bearing on your question, if anything they may
offer less protection, but better Ethernet data integrity.

Are you putting these at both ends of the cable, or only at
the switch or router end?

I never assume they protect the radios, unless the surge is
coming from the network side, e.g. a power line surge.  They
protect the network equipment like switch, router or POE.  If
the surge is coming from the radio end, my personal opinion is
a surge protector may actually increase the chance of radio
damage by giving the surge a path to ground via the cable. 
But let’s face it, if the tower take a hit, you may lose
equipment no matter what you do for grounding or surge
protection.  Best bet may be fiber for data and a direct power
cable with a DC surge protector right at the radio.

Strange that the Powerbridge was the only survivor, as you
say, it’s not exactly a high end piece of equipment, basically
a Rocket PCB built into a panel antenna.  But it might be
interesting to do a failure analysis on the stuff that died. 
Most of the time I find it’s the power supply that got fried,
the radio won’t even power up.  I looked at a Transtector
product once that had fuses in the protection modules, that
would seem to mean you always have to replace the modules
after a surge, but maybe the fuse opening up is better for the
radio.

I suspect you just had a bad day.  It happens despite best
efforts.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2020 8:27 AM
*To:* AFMUG 
    *Subject:* [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively
for years we've been using the GIGE-APC-HV.

On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them. We've had 0
problems on this tower since adding the surge cards almost 6
years ago.  A mix of Ubnt/Cambium.  The one device that
survived was a Powerbridge (the shitty panel) with one of the
old surge cards that has an LED on it indicating power.  All 8
other devices needed to be replaced on the tower.

What should I expect the surge cards to do?  I keep reading
that the card should sacrifice itself so we can just replace
the card on the ground instead of the radio on the tower -
better for a 1 person fix, way cheaper, ground instead of
tower, faster, etc.  The tower owner is a big Motorola R56 guy
and gave us the thumbs up with how we did the grounding.

Did I just get screwed hard for some reason?  An employee of
the tower owner came out and had to fix some of their gear for
their two way Motorola radio stuff, too, so maybe it was just
a really shitty day.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http:/

Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread Josh Luthman 
The Tik was definitely not damaged.  Did the surge suppressors protect it?
I don't know, I guess that's part of my question here.

Never seen a surge suppressor blown I don't think.  Never seen one
charred.  I have had to swap them out in a few cases to fix ethernet
problems.

>Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some at
top and bottom.
Do you have any data on which is best?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:49 AM  wrote:

> OK, but did the surge suppressors protect the Tik?
>
> Nearby strikes induce hundreds to thousands of volts per meter in all
> conductors.
> Most of the stories I hear is that the surge suppressor is blown to bits
> but the devices it is connected to are OK.
> But the closer the strike, the more damage.
>
> Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some at
> top and bottom.
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2020 8:35 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?
>
> The Tik is grounded to the bus bar.  The surge cards use the WBMFG metal
> boxes which ground to the same ground, but a different bus bar.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:30 AM  wrote:
>
>> And was the Tik connected to the surge suppressors?
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2020 8:21 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?
>>
>> Surge cards are only inside the building.
>>
>> We lost 0 ethernet ports on the Tik.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> We’ve gone to the “Cat6” (gas tube) versions but I don’t think that has
>>> any bearing on your question, if anything they may offer less protection,
>>> but better Ethernet data integrity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you putting these at both ends of the cable, or only at the switch
>>> or router end?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I never assume they protect the radios, unless the surge is coming from
>>> the network side, e.g. a power line surge.  They protect the network
>>> equipment like switch, router or POE.  If the surge is coming from the
>>> radio end, my personal opinion is a surge protector may actually increase
>>> the chance of radio damage by giving the surge a path to ground via the
>>> cable.  But let’s face it, if the tower take a hit, you may lose equipment
>>> no matter what you do for grounding or surge protection.  Best bet may be
>>> fiber for data and a direct power cable with a DC surge protector right at
>>> the radio.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Strange that the Powerbridge was the only survivor, as you say, it’s not
>>> exactly a high end piece of equipment, basically a Rocket PCB built into a
>>> panel antenna.  But it might be interesting to do a failure analysis on the
>>> stuff that died.  Most of the time I find it’s the power supply that got
>>> fried, the radio won’t even power up.  I looked at a Transtector product
>>> once that had fuses in the protection modules, that would seem to mean you
>>> always have to replace the modules after a surge, but maybe the fuse
>>> opening up is better for the radio.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I suspect you just had a bad day.  It happens despite best efforts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2020 8:27 AM
>>> *To:* AFMUG 
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively for years
>>> we've been using the GIGE-APC-HV.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them.  We've had 0 problems on
>>> this tower since adding the surge cards almost 6 years ago.  A mix of
>>> Ubnt/Cambium.  The one device that survived was a Powerbridge (the shitty
>>> panel) with one of the old surge cards that has an LED on it indicating
>>> power.  All 8 other devices needed to be replaced on the tower.
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread chuck 
OK, but did the surge suppressors protect the Tik?  

Nearby strikes induce hundreds to thousands of volts per meter in all 
conductors.  
Most of the stories I hear is that the surge suppressor is blown to bits but 
the devices it is connected to are OK.  
But the closer the strike, the more damage.  

Some folks have surge suppressors at the top, some at the bottom, some at top 
and bottom.  


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:35 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

The Tik is grounded to the bus bar.  The surge cards use the WBMFG metal boxes 
which ground to the same ground, but a different bus bar.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:30 AM  wrote:

  And was the Tik connected to the surge suppressors?

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:21 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

  Surge cards are only inside the building. 

  We lost 0 ethernet ports on the Tik.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

We’ve gone to the “Cat6” (gas tube) versions but I don’t think that has any 
bearing on your question, if anything they may offer less protection, but 
better Ethernet data integrity.



Are you putting these at both ends of the cable, or only at the switch or 
router end?



I never assume they protect the radios, unless the surge is coming from the 
network side, e.g. a power line surge.  They protect the network equipment like 
switch, router or POE.  If the surge is coming from the radio end, my personal 
opinion is a surge protector may actually increase the chance of radio damage 
by giving the surge a path to ground via the cable.  But let’s face it, if the 
tower take a hit, you may lose equipment no matter what you do for grounding or 
surge protection.  Best bet may be fiber for data and a direct power cable with 
a DC surge protector right at the radio.



Strange that the Powerbridge was the only survivor, as you say, it’s not 
exactly a high end piece of equipment, basically a Rocket PCB built into a 
panel antenna.  But it might be interesting to do a failure analysis on the 
stuff that died.  Most of the time I find it’s the power supply that got fried, 
the radio won’t even power up.  I looked at a Transtector product once that had 
fuses in the protection modules, that would seem to mean you always have to 
replace the modules after a surge, but maybe the fuse opening up is better for 
the radio.



I suspect you just had a bad day.  It happens despite best efforts.  



From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:27 AM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?



I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively for years we've 
been using the GIGE-APC-HV.



On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them.  We've had 0 problems on this 
tower since adding the surge cards almost 6 years ago.  A mix of Ubnt/Cambium.  
The one device that survived was a Powerbridge (the shitty panel) with one of 
the old surge cards that has an LED on it indicating power.  All 8 other 
devices needed to be replaced on the tower.



What should I expect the surge cards to do?  I keep reading that the card 
should sacrifice itself so we can just replace the card on the ground instead 
of the radio on the tower - better for a 1 person fix, way cheaper, ground 
instead of tower, faster, etc.  The tower owner is a big Motorola R56 guy and 
gave us the thumbs up with how we did the grounding.



Did I just get screwed hard for some reason?  An employee of the tower 
owner came out and had to fix some of their gear for their two way Motorola 
radio stuff, too, so maybe it was just a really shitty day.




Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread Josh Luthman 
The Tik is grounded to the bus bar.  The surge cards use the WBMFG metal
boxes which ground to the same ground, but a different bus bar.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:30 AM  wrote:

> And was the Tik connected to the surge suppressors?
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2020 8:21 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?
>
> Surge cards are only inside the building.
>
> We lost 0 ethernet ports on the Tik.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> We’ve gone to the “Cat6” (gas tube) versions but I don’t think that has
>> any bearing on your question, if anything they may offer less protection,
>> but better Ethernet data integrity.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you putting these at both ends of the cable, or only at the switch or
>> router end?
>>
>>
>>
>> I never assume they protect the radios, unless the surge is coming from
>> the network side, e.g. a power line surge.  They protect the network
>> equipment like switch, router or POE.  If the surge is coming from the
>> radio end, my personal opinion is a surge protector may actually increase
>> the chance of radio damage by giving the surge a path to ground via the
>> cable.  But let’s face it, if the tower take a hit, you may lose equipment
>> no matter what you do for grounding or surge protection.  Best bet may be
>> fiber for data and a direct power cable with a DC surge protector right at
>> the radio.
>>
>>
>>
>> Strange that the Powerbridge was the only survivor, as you say, it’s not
>> exactly a high end piece of equipment, basically a Rocket PCB built into a
>> panel antenna.  But it might be interesting to do a failure analysis on the
>> stuff that died.  Most of the time I find it’s the power supply that got
>> fried, the radio won’t even power up.  I looked at a Transtector product
>> once that had fuses in the protection modules, that would seem to mean you
>> always have to replace the modules after a surge, but maybe the fuse
>> opening up is better for the radio.
>>
>>
>>
>> I suspect you just had a bad day.  It happens despite best efforts.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2020 8:27 AM
>> *To:* AFMUG 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?
>>
>>
>>
>> I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively for years
>> we've been using the GIGE-APC-HV.
>>
>>
>>
>> On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them.  We've had 0 problems on
>> this tower since adding the surge cards almost 6 years ago.  A mix of
>> Ubnt/Cambium.  The one device that survived was a Powerbridge (the shitty
>> panel) with one of the old surge cards that has an LED on it indicating
>> power.  All 8 other devices needed to be replaced on the tower.
>>
>>
>>
>> What should I expect the surge cards to do?  I keep reading that the card
>> should sacrifice itself so we can just replace the card on the ground
>> instead of the radio on the tower - better for a 1 person fix, way cheaper,
>> ground instead of tower, faster, etc.  The tower owner is a big Motorola
>> R56 guy and gave us the thumbs up with how we did the grounding.
>>
>>
>>
>> Did I just get screwed hard for some reason?  An employee of the tower
>> owner came out and had to fix some of their gear for their two way Motorola
>> radio stuff, too, so maybe it was just a really shitty day.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread chuck 
And was the Tik connected to the surge suppressors?

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:21 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

Surge cards are only inside the building. 

We lost 0 ethernet ports on the Tik.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  We’ve gone to the “Cat6” (gas tube) versions but I don’t think that has any 
bearing on your question, if anything they may offer less protection, but 
better Ethernet data integrity.



  Are you putting these at both ends of the cable, or only at the switch or 
router end?



  I never assume they protect the radios, unless the surge is coming from the 
network side, e.g. a power line surge.  They protect the network equipment like 
switch, router or POE.  If the surge is coming from the radio end, my personal 
opinion is a surge protector may actually increase the chance of radio damage 
by giving the surge a path to ground via the cable.  But let’s face it, if the 
tower take a hit, you may lose equipment no matter what you do for grounding or 
surge protection.  Best bet may be fiber for data and a direct power cable with 
a DC surge protector right at the radio.



  Strange that the Powerbridge was the only survivor, as you say, it’s not 
exactly a high end piece of equipment, basically a Rocket PCB built into a 
panel antenna.  But it might be interesting to do a failure analysis on the 
stuff that died.  Most of the time I find it’s the power supply that got fried, 
the radio won’t even power up.  I looked at a Transtector product once that had 
fuses in the protection modules, that would seem to mean you always have to 
replace the modules after a surge, but maybe the fuse opening up is better for 
the radio.



  I suspect you just had a bad day.  It happens despite best efforts.  



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:27 AM
  To: AFMUG 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?



  I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively for years we've 
been using the GIGE-APC-HV.



  On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them.  We've had 0 problems on this 
tower since adding the surge cards almost 6 years ago.  A mix of Ubnt/Cambium.  
The one device that survived was a Powerbridge (the shitty panel) with one of 
the old surge cards that has an LED on it indicating power.  All 8 other 
devices needed to be replaced on the tower.



  What should I expect the surge cards to do?  I keep reading that the card 
should sacrifice itself so we can just replace the card on the ground instead 
of the radio on the tower - better for a 1 person fix, way cheaper, ground 
instead of tower, faster, etc.  The tower owner is a big Motorola R56 guy and 
gave us the thumbs up with how we did the grounding.



  Did I just get screwed hard for some reason?  An employee of the tower owner 
came out and had to fix some of their gear for their two way Motorola radio 
stuff, too, so maybe it was just a really shitty day.




  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread Josh Luthman 
Surge cards are only inside the building.

We lost 0 ethernet ports on the Tik.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> We’ve gone to the “Cat6” (gas tube) versions but I don’t think that has
> any bearing on your question, if anything they may offer less protection,
> but better Ethernet data integrity.
>
>
>
> Are you putting these at both ends of the cable, or only at the switch or
> router end?
>
>
>
> I never assume they protect the radios, unless the surge is coming from
> the network side, e.g. a power line surge.  They protect the network
> equipment like switch, router or POE.  If the surge is coming from the
> radio end, my personal opinion is a surge protector may actually increase
> the chance of radio damage by giving the surge a path to ground via the
> cable.  But let’s face it, if the tower take a hit, you may lose equipment
> no matter what you do for grounding or surge protection.  Best bet may be
> fiber for data and a direct power cable with a DC surge protector right at
> the radio.
>
>
>
> Strange that the Powerbridge was the only survivor, as you say, it’s not
> exactly a high end piece of equipment, basically a Rocket PCB built into a
> panel antenna.  But it might be interesting to do a failure analysis on the
> stuff that died.  Most of the time I find it’s the power supply that got
> fried, the radio won’t even power up.  I looked at a Transtector product
> once that had fuses in the protection modules, that would seem to mean you
> always have to replace the modules after a surge, but maybe the fuse
> opening up is better for the radio.
>
>
>
> I suspect you just had a bad day.  It happens despite best efforts.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2020 8:27 AM
> *To:* AFMUG 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?
>
>
>
> I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively for years
> we've been using the GIGE-APC-HV.
>
>
>
> On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them.  We've had 0 problems on this
> tower since adding the surge cards almost 6 years ago.  A mix of
> Ubnt/Cambium.  The one device that survived was a Powerbridge (the shitty
> panel) with one of the old surge cards that has an LED on it indicating
> power.  All 8 other devices needed to be replaced on the tower.
>
>
>
> What should I expect the surge cards to do?  I keep reading that the card
> should sacrifice itself so we can just replace the card on the ground
> instead of the radio on the tower - better for a 1 person fix, way cheaper,
> ground instead of tower, faster, etc.  The tower owner is a big Motorola
> R56 guy and gave us the thumbs up with how we did the grounding.
>
>
>
> Did I just get screwed hard for some reason?  An employee of the tower
> owner came out and had to fix some of their gear for their two way Motorola
> radio stuff, too, so maybe it was just a really shitty day.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread Josh Luthman 
Just got off the phone with a customer that's probably the closest one to
that tower.  The tree in his front yard was taken down at the same time as
the storm Friday - with no winds.  I'm guessing that was the strike.

Hopefully we can last more than 6 years this time around :)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:48 AM Eric Muehleisen  wrote:

> We had a similar situation. No amount of grounding can protect you 100%.
> You'll lose AP's on direct strikes. Hopefully the surges will protect your
> cabinet guts.
>
> We co-locate on a couple towers with an electric coop. They way
> over-engineer all their installs. As you might expect, their grounding
> policies are super strict. However, they tend to lose equipment far more
> often than we do.
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:28 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively for years
>> we've been using the GIGE-APC-HV.
>>
>> On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them.  We've had 0 problems on
>> this tower since adding the surge cards almost 6 years ago.  A mix of
>> Ubnt/Cambium.  The one device that survived was a Powerbridge (the shitty
>> panel) with one of the old surge cards that has an LED on it indicating
>> power.  All 8 other devices needed to be replaced on the tower.
>>
>> What should I expect the surge cards to do?  I keep reading that the card
>> should sacrifice itself so we can just replace the card on the ground
>> instead of the radio on the tower - better for a 1 person fix, way cheaper,
>> ground instead of tower, faster, etc.  The tower owner is a big Motorola
>> R56 guy and gave us the thumbs up with how we did the grounding.
>>
>> Did I just get screwed hard for some reason?  An employee of the tower
>> owner came out and had to fix some of their gear for their two way Motorola
>> radio stuff, too, so maybe it was just a really shitty day.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread Ken Hohhof 
We’ve gone to the “Cat6” (gas tube) versions but I don’t think that has any 
bearing on your question, if anything they may offer less protection, but 
better Ethernet data integrity.

 

Are you putting these at both ends of the cable, or only at the switch or 
router end?

 

I never assume they protect the radios, unless the surge is coming from the 
network side, e.g. a power line surge.  They protect the network equipment like 
switch, router or POE.  If the surge is coming from the radio end, my personal 
opinion is a surge protector may actually increase the chance of radio damage 
by giving the surge a path to ground via the cable.  But let’s face it, if the 
tower take a hit, you may lose equipment no matter what you do for grounding or 
surge protection.  Best bet may be fiber for data and a direct power cable with 
a DC surge protector right at the radio.

 

Strange that the Powerbridge was the only survivor, as you say, it’s not 
exactly a high end piece of equipment, basically a Rocket PCB built into a 
panel antenna.  But it might be interesting to do a failure analysis on the 
stuff that died.  Most of the time I find it’s the power supply that got fried, 
the radio won’t even power up.  I looked at a Transtector product once that had 
fuses in the protection modules, that would seem to mean you always have to 
replace the modules after a surge, but maybe the fuse opening up is better for 
the radio.

 

I suspect you just had a bad day.  It happens despite best efforts.  

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:27 AM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

 

I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively for years we've 
been using the GIGE-APC-HV.

 

On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them.  We've had 0 problems on this 
tower since adding the surge cards almost 6 years ago.  A mix of Ubnt/Cambium.  
The one device that survived was a Powerbridge (the shitty panel) with one of 
the old surge cards that has an LED on it indicating power.  All 8 other 
devices needed to be replaced on the tower.

 

What should I expect the surge cards to do?  I keep reading that the card 
should sacrifice itself so we can just replace the card on the ground instead 
of the radio on the tower - better for a 1 person fix, way cheaper, ground 
instead of tower, faster, etc.  The tower owner is a big Motorola R56 guy and 
gave us the thumbs up with how we did the grounding.

 

Did I just get screwed hard for some reason?  An employee of the tower owner 
came out and had to fix some of their gear for their two way Motorola radio 
stuff, too, so maybe it was just a really shitty day.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

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Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread Adam Moffett 
YeahI think sometimes lightning does what lightning wants. And I 
don't think we understand it as well as we would like to believe.  We've 
certainly seen incinerated surge protectors, so they do the job at least 
some of the time.


I do think there was some magic in the old Canopy plastic box. There was 
no electrical connection to anything except via the Cat5 with it's surge 
protector.  That would seem to fly in the face of R56, but we didn't 
have lightning trouble with those hardly ever.



On 8/31/2020 9:47 AM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:
We had a similar situation. No amount of grounding can protect you 
100%. You'll lose AP's on direct strikes. Hopefully the surges will 
protect your cabinet guts.


We co-locate on a couple towers with an electric coop. They way 
over-engineer all their installs. As you might expect, their grounding 
policies are super strict. However, they tend to lose equipment far 
more often than we do.


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:28 AM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively for
years we've been using the GIGE-APC-HV.

On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them.  We've had 0 problems
on this tower since adding the surge cards almost 6 years ago.  A
mix of Ubnt/Cambium.  The one device that survived was a
Powerbridge (the shitty panel) with one of the old surge cards
that has an LED on it indicating power.  All 8 other devices
needed to be replaced on the tower.

What should I expect the surge cards to do?  I keep reading that
the card should sacrifice itself so we can just replace the card
on the ground instead of the radio on the tower - better for a 1
person fix, way cheaper, ground instead of tower, faster, etc. 
The tower owner is a big Motorola R56 guy and gave us the thumbs
up with how we did the grounding.

Did I just get screwed hard for some reason?  An employee of the
tower owner came out and had to fix some of their gear for their
two way Motorola radio stuff, too, so maybe it was just a really
shitty day.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
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Re: [AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread Eric Muehleisen 
We had a similar situation. No amount of grounding can protect you 100%.
You'll lose AP's on direct strikes. Hopefully the surges will protect your
cabinet guts.

We co-locate on a couple towers with an electric coop. They way
over-engineer all their installs. As you might expect, their grounding
policies are super strict. However, they tend to lose equipment far more
often than we do.

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:28 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively for years
> we've been using the GIGE-APC-HV.
>
> On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them.  We've had 0 problems on this
> tower since adding the surge cards almost 6 years ago.  A mix of
> Ubnt/Cambium.  The one device that survived was a Powerbridge (the shitty
> panel) with one of the old surge cards that has an LED on it indicating
> power.  All 8 other devices needed to be replaced on the tower.
>
> What should I expect the surge cards to do?  I keep reading that the card
> should sacrifice itself so we can just replace the card on the ground
> instead of the radio on the tower - better for a 1 person fix, way cheaper,
> ground instead of tower, faster, etc.  The tower owner is a big Motorola
> R56 guy and gave us the thumbs up with how we did the grounding.
>
> Did I just get screwed hard for some reason?  An employee of the tower
> owner came out and had to fix some of their gear for their two way Motorola
> radio stuff, too, so maybe it was just a really shitty day.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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[AFMUG] Surge cards, what should I expect?

2020-08-31 Thread Josh Luthman 
I've regularly used the 444 cards.  Pretty much exclusively for years we've
been using the GIGE-APC-HV.

On a tower with 9 devices, I lost 8 of them.  We've had 0 problems on this
tower since adding the surge cards almost 6 years ago.  A mix of
Ubnt/Cambium.  The one device that survived was a Powerbridge (the shitty
panel) with one of the old surge cards that has an LED on it indicating
power.  All 8 other devices needed to be replaced on the tower.

What should I expect the surge cards to do?  I keep reading that the card
should sacrifice itself so we can just replace the card on the ground
instead of the radio on the tower - better for a 1 person fix, way cheaper,
ground instead of tower, faster, etc.  The tower owner is a big Motorola
R56 guy and gave us the thumbs up with how we did the grounding.

Did I just get screwed hard for some reason?  An employee of the tower
owner came out and had to fix some of their gear for their two way Motorola
radio stuff, too, so maybe it was just a really shitty day.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
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