Re: [AFMUG] Prevailing Wage

2023-12-18 Thread dmmoffett 
The act itself is quite short and refers to “excavation projects” multiple 
times.  The stated intention of the rule is to maintain road quality by not 
allowing utility companies to get some cut-rate hacks to patch the pavement 
after they’ve dug it up.  The trouble stems from the broad interpretation by 
the Department of Labor.  They’re saying that a “covered excavation project” 
doesn’t require any excavation at all due to the word “use”.  Rather, if you 
have to be on the road in any sense then that’s “use”, and if that locality 
requires a permit for the work you’re doing then it’s prevailing wage.

 

Some jurisdictions require a road work permit any time you’re doing work inside 
the boundaries of the ROW.  I had a conversation with one city’s engineering 
department about road work permits, and their policy is you need a permit any 
time you have “construction equipment” in the ROW, and for that purpose their 
feeling is that our cable placer and splice trucks count but vans and pickups 
don’t.   Some towns explicitly only want a permit if you’re cutting pavement.  
Some rural towns don’t have any permit process at all.  This variability from 
town to town and county to county creates a mish mash of situations where you 
may or may not be required to pay prevailing wage for the same work in 
different places.  That one where vans don’t count could mean you don’t pay 
prevailing wage if you force everybody to work from ladders or hooks, so 
arguably that creates a perverse incentive to compromise safety.  

 

I’m not blaming communism.  I’d love to hear their real rationale for that 
interpretation, but I think most likely someone was worried about potential 
loopholes and doesn’t really understand how their DOL rules will interact with 
the rules of the DOT and countless county and local highway departments.  I.E.: 
Plain old dumb stuff, not commie stuff.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2023 3:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Prevailing Wage

 

Was that a mistake or intentional? With all the taxpayer funded welfare going 
out to the ISPs, I can see a "well meaning bureaucrat" intentionally putting 
the wording in to get some of the welfare back to those workers controlling the 
"means of production" 

 

 

 

well meaning bureaucrat - commie

means of production - commie speak

 

On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 8:10 AM mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

There’s a new rule in NY State:
https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2023/a5608

https://dol.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2023/12/enforcement-guidance-roadway-excavation-quality-assurance-act-update-3.pdf

 

'a "Covered excavation project" shall mean construction work for which a permit 
may be issued to a contractor or subcontractor of a utility company by the 
state, a county or a municipality to use, excavate, or open a street. '

 

Intentionally or not, they put the word “use” in that sentence.  The DOL issued 
that enforcement guidance saying it means any time you are working “in, on, or 
under” a street.  Basically, if you’re working as a contractor on a job that 
needs any kind of permit from a state, local, or county to work in their ROW 
then you have to pay prevailing wage.  That’s regardless of whether it’s a 
state job or not.  This does not apply to in-house employees or work outside 
the ROW.  This is going to cause some waves for a lot of us in NY State.

 

If I can get the “prevailing” $54/hour as a lineman on almost every job, then I 
might quit this “Network Engineering” thing and just be a builder.  

 

So where do federal and state labor departments get their data to determine 
“prevailing wage”?  I have never met a tradesman of any sort who made 
prevailing wage outside of when the government mandates it, and I have never 
understood how it was “prevailing” if nobody seems to actually get that wage. 
Is it a selection bias issue like maybe they’re only getting data from large 
union shops?  

 

-Adam

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Prevailing Wage

2023-12-17 Thread Steve Jones 
Was that a mistake or intentional? With all the taxpayer funded welfare
going out to the ISPs, I can see a "well meaning bureaucrat" intentionally
putting the wording in to get some of the welfare back to those workers
controlling the "means of production"



well meaning bureaucrat - commie
means of production - commie speak

On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 8:10 AM  wrote:

> There’s a new rule in NY State:
> https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2023/a5608
>
>
> https://dol.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2023/12/enforcement-guidance-roadway-excavation-quality-assurance-act-update-3.pdf
>
>
>
> 'a "Covered excavation project" shall mean construction work for which a
> permit may be issued to a contractor or subcontractor of a utility company
> by the state, a county or a municipality to *use*, excavate, or open a
> street. '
>
>
>
> Intentionally or not, they put the word “use” in that sentence.  The DOL
> issued that enforcement guidance saying it means any time you are working
> “in, on, or under” a street.  Basically, if you’re working as a contractor
> on a job that needs any kind of permit from a state, local, or county to
> work in their ROW then you have to pay prevailing wage.  That’s regardless
> of whether it’s a state job or not.  This does not apply to in-house
> employees or work outside the ROW.  This is going to cause some waves for a
> lot of us in NY State.
>
>
>
> If I can get the “prevailing” $54/hour as a lineman on almost every job,
> then I might quit this “Network Engineering” thing and just be a builder.
>
>
>
> So where do federal and state labor departments get their data to
> determine “prevailing wage”?  I have never met a tradesman of any sort who
> made prevailing wage outside of when the government mandates it, and I have
> never understood how it was “prevailing” if nobody seems to actually get
> that wage. Is it a selection bias issue like maybe they’re only getting
> data from large union shops?
>
>
>
> -Adam
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Prevailing Wage

2023-12-15 Thread Mark Radabaugh 
The number comes from the unions and includes all of the retirement, health 
care, vacation, and other benefits in the amount.   It’s not the employees pay 
rate on the check.

Mark



> On Dec 15, 2023, at 9:08 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> There’s a new rule in NY State:
> https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2023/a5608
> https://dol.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2023/12/enforcement-guidance-roadway-excavation-quality-assurance-act-update-3.pdf
>  
> 'a "Covered excavation project" shall mean construction work for which a 
> permit may be issued to a contractor or subcontractor of a utility company by 
> the state, a county or a municipality to use, excavate, or open a street. '
>  
> Intentionally or not, they put the word “use” in that sentence.  The DOL 
> issued that enforcement guidance saying it means any time you are working 
> “in, on, or under” a street.  Basically, if you’re working as a contractor on 
> a job that needs any kind of permit from a state, local, or county to work in 
> their ROW then you have to pay prevailing wage.  That’s regardless of whether 
> it’s a state job or not.  This does not apply to in-house employees or work 
> outside the ROW.  This is going to cause some waves for a lot of us in NY 
> State.
>  
> If I can get the “prevailing” $54/hour as a lineman on almost every job, then 
> I might quit this “Network Engineering” thing and just be a builder.  
>  
> So where do federal and state labor departments get their data to determine 
> “prevailing wage”?  I have never met a tradesman of any sort who made 
> prevailing wage outside of when the government mandates it, and I have never 
> understood how it was “prevailing” if nobody seems to actually get that wage. 
> Is it a selection bias issue like maybe they’re only getting data from large 
> union shops?  
>  
> -Adam
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage

2023-10-12 Thread dmmoffett 
I know you know, but Lawyers and/or Accountants are the people for this 
question.

If any of us tell you wrong stuff it’s still on you for believing a bunch of 
jerks on the Internet.  If lawyers tell you wrong it’s on them (at least up to 
a point).

 

In my experience, if you do do something wrong, the gov employees are going to 
be lenient as long as you have a compliant attitude and you correct it.  Like 
they don’t throw you in jail for not understanding the rules, they throw you in 
jail for establishing a pattern of acting in bad faith over time.

 

I would *assume* a 1099 worker above prevailing wage is just as ok as an 
employee above prevailing wage, but you should absolutely not believe anything 
I say.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 9:41 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage

 

partner is not technically and employee, but the partnership is not formal, so 
hes technically a 1099 contractor. he definitely makes over prevailing wage 
though. I just dont knw what documentation i need to show it. Or if i have to 
payroll him rather than 1099, he meets the IRS 1099 worksheet requirements

 

On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 8:34 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

I don't think it matters how many layers are between the person working and the 
government body, the worker still has to meet those wage thresholds.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "Steve Jones" < <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> 
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
af@af.afmug.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 6:09:15 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage

My part er is informal. I have his 1099, he gets 50 percent after expenses, one 
of those expenses is operator pay. On PW jobs am I allowed to have 1099, or 
would I have to put him on payroll? I don't have any actual payroll right now. 
Last year I ended up having my accountant stop submitting because other than my 
son I didn't have any and this year I still didn't have enout to reach back out.

I don't know anything about this stuff

 

On Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:14 PM < <mailto:coordina...@town.warwick.ma.us> 
coordina...@town.warwick.ma.us> wrote:

Prevailing wage is the state equivalent of federal Davis Bacon.
Typically, your state's Dept of Labor maintains the schedules.
You have to get the rates and make sure the workers get paid the rate 
and then retain the documentation in case of claim or objection. Part of 
my town administrator job is running our town owned wisp.
the only workaround is hiring a sole proprietor or using your own 
laborforce.
David Young
Town of Warwick MA
 <http://warwickbroadband.net> warwickbroadband.net

On 2023-10-11 17:03, Steve Jones wrote:
> I have a solar project that's come up for horizontal drilling. it
> requires prevailing wage.
> I don't know exactly what this means from my standpoint.
> to this point I've just been busy enough to run by myself or with my
> informal 1099 partner or with my son.
> 
> I've used day labor periodically but never got to the need where I
> hired them. I'm not saying I pay cash, but people are compensated. I
> do carry a work comp policy for more wage than I pay out.
> 
> what's it mean for me and what paperwork do I have to have in order to
> meet the requirement

-- 
AF mailing list
 <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> AF@af.afmug.com
 <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list
 <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> AF@af.afmug.com
 <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage

2023-10-11 Thread Steve Jones 
partner is not technically and employee, but the partnership is not formal,
so hes technically a 1099 contractor. he definitely makes over prevailing
wage though. I just dont knw what documentation i need to show it. Or if i
have to payroll him rather than 1099, he meets the IRS 1099 worksheet
requirements

On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 8:34 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I don't think it matters how many layers are between the person working
> and the government body, the worker still has to meet those wage thresholds.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 11, 2023 6:09:15 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage
>
> My part er is informal. I have his 1099, he gets 50 percent after
> expenses, one of those expenses is operator pay. On PW jobs am I allowed to
> have 1099, or would I have to put him on payroll? I don't have any actual
> payroll right now. Last year I ended up having my accountant stop
> submitting because other than my son I didn't have any and this year I
> still didn't have enout to reach back out.
> I don't know anything about this stuff
>
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:14 PM  wrote:
>
>> Prevailing wage is the state equivalent of federal Davis Bacon.
>> Typically, your state's Dept of Labor maintains the schedules.
>> You have to get the rates and make sure the workers get paid the rate
>> and then retain the documentation in case of claim or objection. Part of
>> my town administrator job is running our town owned wisp.
>> the only workaround is hiring a sole proprietor or using your own
>> laborforce.
>> David Young
>> Town of Warwick MA
>> warwickbroadband.net
>>
>> On 2023-10-11 17:03, Steve Jones wrote:
>> > I have a solar project that's come up for horizontal drilling. it
>> > requires prevailing wage.
>> > I don't know exactly what this means from my standpoint.
>> > to this point I've just been busy enough to run by myself or with my
>> > informal 1099 partner or with my son.
>> >
>> > I've used day labor periodically but never got to the need where I
>> > hired them. I'm not saying I pay cash, but people are compensated. I
>> > do carry a work comp policy for more wage than I pay out.
>> >
>> > what's it mean for me and what paperwork do I have to have in order to
>> > meet the requirement
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage

2023-10-11 Thread Mike Hammett 
I don't think it matters how many layers are between the person working and the 
government body, the worker still has to meet those wage thresholds. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 6:09:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage 


My part er is informal. I have his 1099, he gets 50 percent after expenses, one 
of those expenses is operator pay. On PW jobs am I allowed to have 1099, or 
would I have to put him on payroll? I don't have any actual payroll right now. 
Last year I ended up having my accountant stop submitting because other than my 
son I didn't have any and this year I still didn't have enout to reach back 
out. 
I don't know anything about this stuff 


On Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:14 PM < coordina...@town.warwick.ma.us > wrote: 


Prevailing wage is the state equivalent of federal Davis Bacon. 
Typically, your state's Dept of Labor maintains the schedules. 
You have to get the rates and make sure the workers get paid the rate 
and then retain the documentation in case of claim or objection. Part of 
my town administrator job is running our town owned wisp. 
the only workaround is hiring a sole proprietor or using your own 
laborforce. 
David Young 
Town of Warwick MA 
warwickbroadband.net 

On 2023-10-11 17:03, Steve Jones wrote: 
> I have a solar project that's come up for horizontal drilling. it 
> requires prevailing wage. 
> I don't know exactly what this means from my standpoint. 
> to this point I've just been busy enough to run by myself or with my 
> informal 1099 partner or with my son. 
> 
> I've used day labor periodically but never got to the need where I 
> hired them. I'm not saying I pay cash, but people are compensated. I 
> do carry a work comp policy for more wage than I pay out. 
> 
> what's it mean for me and what paperwork do I have to have in order to 
> meet the requirement 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage

2023-10-11 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
Just tell them all payroll employees are paid prevailing wages or higher.  



From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 5:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage

My part er is informal. I have his 1099, he gets 50 percent after expenses, one 
of those expenses is operator pay. On PW jobs am I allowed to have 1099, or 
would I have to put him on payroll? I don't have any actual payroll right now. 
Last year I ended up having my accountant stop submitting because other than my 
son I didn't have any and this year I still didn't have enout to reach back 
out. 
I don't know anything about this stuff

On Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:14 PM  wrote:

  Prevailing wage is the state equivalent of federal Davis Bacon.
  Typically, your state's Dept of Labor maintains the schedules.
  You have to get the rates and make sure the workers get paid the rate 
  and then retain the documentation in case of claim or objection. Part of 
  my town administrator job is running our town owned wisp.
  the only workaround is hiring a sole proprietor or using your own 
  laborforce.
  David Young
  Town of Warwick MA
  warwickbroadband.net

  On 2023-10-11 17:03, Steve Jones wrote:
  > I have a solar project that's come up for horizontal drilling. it
  > requires prevailing wage.
  > I don't know exactly what this means from my standpoint.
  > to this point I've just been busy enough to run by myself or with my
  > informal 1099 partner or with my son.
  > 
  > I've used day labor periodically but never got to the need where I
  > hired them. I'm not saying I pay cash, but people are compensated. I
  > do carry a work comp policy for more wage than I pay out.
  > 
  > what's it mean for me and what paperwork do I have to have in order to
  > meet the requirement

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage

2023-10-11 Thread Steve Jones 
My part er is informal. I have his 1099, he gets 50 percent after expenses,
one of those expenses is operator pay. On PW jobs am I allowed to have
1099, or would I have to put him on payroll? I don't have any actual
payroll right now. Last year I ended up having my accountant stop
submitting because other than my son I didn't have any and this year I
still didn't have enout to reach back out.
I don't know anything about this stuff

On Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:14 PM  wrote:

> Prevailing wage is the state equivalent of federal Davis Bacon.
> Typically, your state's Dept of Labor maintains the schedules.
> You have to get the rates and make sure the workers get paid the rate
> and then retain the documentation in case of claim or objection. Part of
> my town administrator job is running our town owned wisp.
> the only workaround is hiring a sole proprietor or using your own
> laborforce.
> David Young
> Town of Warwick MA
> warwickbroadband.net
>
> On 2023-10-11 17:03, Steve Jones wrote:
> > I have a solar project that's come up for horizontal drilling. it
> > requires prevailing wage.
> > I don't know exactly what this means from my standpoint.
> > to this point I've just been busy enough to run by myself or with my
> > informal 1099 partner or with my son.
> >
> > I've used day labor periodically but never got to the need where I
> > hired them. I'm not saying I pay cash, but people are compensated. I
> > do carry a work comp policy for more wage than I pay out.
> >
> > what's it mean for me and what paperwork do I have to have in order to
> > meet the requirement
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage

2023-10-11 Thread coordinator 

Prevailing wage is the state equivalent of federal Davis Bacon.
Typically, your state's Dept of Labor maintains the schedules.
You have to get the rates and make sure the workers get paid the rate 
and then retain the documentation in case of claim or objection. Part of 
my town administrator job is running our town owned wisp.
the only workaround is hiring a sole proprietor or using your own 
laborforce.

David Young
Town of Warwick MA
warwickbroadband.net

On 2023-10-11 17:03, Steve Jones wrote:

I have a solar project that's come up for horizontal drilling. it
requires prevailing wage.
I don't know exactly what this means from my standpoint.
to this point I've just been busy enough to run by myself or with my
informal 1099 partner or with my son.

I've used day labor periodically but never got to the need where I
hired them. I'm not saying I pay cash, but people are compensated. I
do carry a work comp policy for more wage than I pay out.

what's it mean for me and what paperwork do I have to have in order to
meet the requirement


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com