Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Josh Luthman]

Is it a problem at all to boot to Clonezilla?  If so there are other
options.  If you don't mind the machine being down for a bit, this is ideal.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 10:53 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Yeah, clonezilla is what I was planning on using.  Looks like it will
> write an image file to a nfs mount or similar, so I can mount my nas disk
> and write to it.
>
> On Dec 26, 2017 4:21 PM, "Brian Webster"  wrote:
>
> I would still just do clonezilla disk images. For what you have described
> it seems to be the most simple solution for your needs. If you are used to
> working with ghost then clonezilla would be familiar to use. I feel you on
> the old computer hardware, as was previously mentioned I have to keep old
> relics running just to program various land mobile radios. I have on
> program that pukes on an old Pentium 2 400 MHz because the serial port is
> too fast. I can get the program to run with a slowdown program but it still
> won’t talk to the serial port. Running old DOS boxes can be a drag. I
> certainly wish they could all just be run under emulators but alas they
> won’t.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Brian Webster
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 26, 2017 3:02 PM
>
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>
>
>
> So we have a local NAS which is backed up to a couple cloud services.
>
>
>
> The current working plan is to do an image backup to the NAS box during
> our biweekly maintenance day using the open source tool mentioned earlier
> in the thread.  I'll verify that this is reliable over the next few
> maintenance days.
>
>
>
> I'm also going to set up a daily file backup as well.  This should catch
> changes between the images.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 26, 2017 12:46 PM,  wrote:
>
> How about putting all the files on network drive/ dropbox/ google drive,
> have duplicate boxes always connected to the net so all the files stay in
> sync.
>
>
>
> Then at least all the configs and data will be fresh and hot standby.
>
>
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:38 PM
>
> *To:* af
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>
>
>
> Thats sort of what I do now, the concern being keeping them in sync.
>
>
>
> As time goes on machine configs change, bugs are fixed, drivers updated
> etc..   So I want to be able to make a copy of the image regularly to some
> backup medium without going through the hassle of starting up the backup
> machines.  Which is what I started this thread about.
>
>
>
> Most of these I have identical devices on the shelf.   With varying
> definitions of identical.  Usually the only change will be memory or disk
> or something like a video card which doesn't matter that much.  Definitely
> not enough to prevent an image copy from working.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 26, 2017 8:33 AM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
> What if you just bought say 2-4 identical new machines at $400 each and
> then imaged from one to the next.  Then just store the extra machines
> nearby.
>
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
> Suite 1337
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
> Troy, OH 45373
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert  wrote:
>
> Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct
> cause of with their moving target of proprietary OS's...   I hope the
> designers of that are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for
> eternity...
>
> On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which
> works consistently on modern hardware.  Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd
> have to triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the
> whole issue would be irrelevant.  So I'm stuck with a chunk of older
> equipment, which still works extremely well, except for it being a pain to
> set up automation with it.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Yeah, clonezilla is what I was planning on using.  Looks like it will write
an image file to a nfs mount or similar, so I can mount my nas disk and
write to it.

On Dec 26, 2017 4:21 PM, "Brian Webster"  wrote:

I would still just do clonezilla disk images. For what you have described
it seems to be the most simple solution for your needs. If you are used to
working with ghost then clonezilla would be familiar to use. I feel you on
the old computer hardware, as was previously mentioned I have to keep old
relics running just to program various land mobile radios. I have on
program that pukes on an old Pentium 2 400 MHz because the serial port is
too fast. I can get the program to run with a slowdown program but it still
won’t talk to the serial port. Running old DOS boxes can be a drag. I
certainly wish they could all just be run under emulators but alas they
won’t.



Thank You,

Brian Webster



*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
(List Account)
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 26, 2017 3:02 PM

*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore



So we have a local NAS which is backed up to a couple cloud services.



The current working plan is to do an image backup to the NAS box during our
biweekly maintenance day using the open source tool mentioned earlier in
the thread.  I'll verify that this is reliable over the next few
maintenance days.



I'm also going to set up a daily file backup as well.  This should catch
changes between the images.







On Dec 26, 2017 12:46 PM,  wrote:

How about putting all the files on network drive/ dropbox/ google drive,
have duplicate boxes always connected to the net so all the files stay in
sync.



Then at least all the configs and data will be fresh and hot standby.



*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:38 PM

*To:* af

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore



Thats sort of what I do now, the concern being keeping them in sync.



As time goes on machine configs change, bugs are fixed, drivers updated
etc..   So I want to be able to make a copy of the image regularly to some
backup medium without going through the hassle of starting up the backup
machines.  Which is what I started this thread about.



Most of these I have identical devices on the shelf.   With varying
definitions of identical.  Usually the only change will be memory or disk
or something like a video card which doesn't matter that much.  Definitely
not enough to prevent an image copy from working.





On Dec 26, 2017 8:33 AM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

What if you just bought say 2-4 identical new machines at $400 each and
then imaged from one to the next.  Then just store the extra machines
nearby.





Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
1100 Wayne St
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
Suite 1337
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
Troy, OH 45373
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>



On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert  wrote:

Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct
cause of with their moving target of proprietary OS's...   I hope the
designers of that are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for
eternity...

On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which works
consistently on modern hardware.  Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd have
to triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the
whole issue would be irrelevant.  So I'm stuck with a chunk of older
equipment, which still works extremely well, except for it being a pain to
set up automation with it.





On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman" mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:

We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a
specific window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We
had to use an intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough
to make them work eventually.
We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program
various ages of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to
decide it want worth it and just told the customers it was EOL. I
know you don't have the luxury.


On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account)
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:

The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild
last time we had a software issue even with carefully logged
instructions.

To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this
machine two particular drivers for two di

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Brian Webster]

I would still just do clonezilla disk images. For what you have described it 
seems to be the most simple solution for your needs. If you are used to working 
with ghost then clonezilla would be familiar to use. I feel you on the old 
computer hardware, as was previously mentioned I have to keep old relics 
running just to program various land mobile radios. I have on program that 
pukes on an old Pentium 2 400 MHz because the serial port is too fast. I can 
get the program to run with a slowdown program but it still won’t talk to the 
serial port. Running old DOS boxes can be a drag. I certainly wish they could 
all just be run under emulators but alas they won’t.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 3:02 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

 

So we have a local NAS which is backed up to a couple cloud services.

 

The current working plan is to do an image backup to the NAS box during our 
biweekly maintenance day using the open source tool mentioned earlier in the 
thread.  I'll verify that this is reliable over the next few maintenance days.

 

I'm also going to set up a daily file backup as well.  This should catch 
changes between the images.

 

 

 

On Dec 26, 2017 12:46 PM,  wrote:

How about putting all the files on network drive/ dropbox/ google drive, have 
duplicate boxes always connected to the net so all the files stay in sync.  

 

Then at least all the configs and data will be fresh and hot standby.  

 

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 

Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:38 PM

To: af 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

 

Thats sort of what I do now, the concern being keeping them in sync.   

 

As time goes on machine configs change, bugs are fixed, drivers updated etc..   
So I want to be able to make a copy of the image regularly to some backup 
medium without going through the hassle of starting up the backup machines.  
Which is what I started this thread about.

 

Most of these I have identical devices on the shelf.   With varying definitions 
of identical.  Usually the only change will be memory or disk or something like 
a video card which doesn't matter that much.  Definitely not enough to prevent 
an image copy from working.

 

 

On Dec 26, 2017 8:33 AM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

What if you just bought say 2-4 identical new machines at $400 each and then 
imaged from one to the next.  Then just store the extra machines nearby.

 

 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340  
Direct: 937-552-2343  
1100 Wayne St 
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
 
Suite 1337 
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
 
Troy, OH 45373 
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
 

 

On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert  wrote:

Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct cause 
of with their moving target of proprietary OS's...   I hope the designers of 
that are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for eternity...

On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which works 
consistently on modern hardware.  Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd have to 
triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the whole issue 
would be irrelevant.  So I'm stuck with a chunk of older equipment, which still 
works extremely well, except for it being a pain to set up automation with it.





On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman" mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com%20%3cmailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:

We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a
specific window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We
had to use an intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough
to make them work eventually.
We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program
various ages of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to
decide it want worth it and just told the customers it was EOL. I
know you don't have the luxury.


On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account)
mailto:li...@packetflux.com%20%3cmailto:li...@packetflux.com> 
<mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:

The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild
last time we had a software issue even with carefully logged
instructions.

To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this
machine two particular drivers for two different pieces of
hardware.   One won't install on anything af

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

So we have a local NAS which is backed up to a couple cloud services.

The current working plan is to do an image backup to the NAS box during our
biweekly maintenance day using the open source tool mentioned earlier in
the thread.  I'll verify that this is reliable over the next few
maintenance days.

I'm also going to set up a daily file backup as well.  This should catch
changes between the images.



On Dec 26, 2017 12:46 PM,  wrote:

> How about putting all the files on network drive/ dropbox/ google drive,
> have duplicate boxes always connected to the net so all the files stay in
> sync.
>
> Then at least all the configs and data will be fresh and hot standby.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:38 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>
> Thats sort of what I do now, the concern being keeping them in sync.
>
> As time goes on machine configs change, bugs are fixed, drivers updated
> etc..   So I want to be able to make a copy of the image regularly to some
> backup medium without going through the hassle of starting up the backup
> machines.  Which is what I started this thread about.
>
> Most of these I have identical devices on the shelf.   With varying
> definitions of identical.  Usually the only change will be memory or disk
> or something like a video card which doesn't matter that much.  Definitely
> not enough to prevent an image copy from working.
>
>
> On Dec 26, 2017 8:33 AM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
>> What if you just bought say 2-4 identical new machines at $400 each and
>> then imaged from one to the next.  Then just store the extra machines
>> nearby.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> Suite 1337
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>
>>> Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct
>>> cause of with their moving target of proprietary OS's...   I hope the
>>> designers of that are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for
>>> eternity...
>>>
>>> On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>>
>>>> There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which
>>>> works consistently on modern hardware.  Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd
>>>> have to triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the
>>>> whole issue would be irrelevant.  So I'm stuck with a chunk of older
>>>> equipment, which still works extremely well, except for it being a pain to
>>>> set up automation with it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman" >>> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a
>>>> specific window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We
>>>> had to use an intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough
>>>> to make them work eventually.
>>>> We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program
>>>> various ages of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to
>>>> decide it want worth it and just told the customers it was EOL. I
>>>> know you don't have the luxury.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account)
>>>> mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild
>>>> last time we had a software issue even with carefully logged
>>>> instructions.
>>>>
>>>> To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this
>>>> machine two particular drivers for two different pieces of
>>>> hardware.   One won't install on anything after Windows 7.  The
>>>> other one requires windows 8.1 or 10.   Fortunately the driver
>>>> wh

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[chuck]

How about putting all the files on network drive/ dropbox/ google drive, have 
duplicate boxes always connected to the net so all the files stay in sync.  

Then at least all the configs and data will be fresh and hot standby.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:38 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

Thats sort of what I do now, the concern being keeping them in sync.   

As time goes on machine configs change, bugs are fixed, drivers updated etc..   
So I want to be able to make a copy of the image regularly to some backup 
medium without going through the hassle of starting up the backup machines.  
Which is what I started this thread about.

Most of these I have identical devices on the shelf.   With varying definitions 
of identical.  Usually the only change will be memory or disk or something like 
a video card which doesn't matter that much.  Definitely not enough to prevent 
an image copy from working.


On Dec 26, 2017 8:33 AM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

  What if you just bought say 2-4 identical new machines at $400 each and then 
imaged from one to the next.  Then just store the extra machines nearby.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert  wrote:

Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct 
cause of with their moving target of proprietary OS's...   I hope the designers 
of that are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for eternity...

On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

  There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which 
works consistently on modern hardware.  Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd 
have to triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the 
whole issue would be irrelevant.  So I'm stuck with a chunk of older equipment, 
which still works extremely well, except for it being a pain to set up 
automation with it.





  On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman" mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:

  We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a
  specific window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We
  had to use an intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough
  to make them work eventually.
  We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program
  various ages of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to
  decide it want worth it and just told the customers it was EOL. I
  know you don't have the luxury.


  On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account)
  mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:

  The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild
  last time we had a software issue even with carefully logged
  instructions.

  To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this
  machine two particular drivers for two different pieces of
  hardware.   One won't install on anything after Windows 7.  The
  other one requires windows 8.1 or 10.   Fortunately the driver
  which requires windows 7 to install works just fine on the
  latter versions, it just won't install on them.  I think it uses
  some functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7.  So
  a rebuild involves installing windows 7, installing this driver,
  and then upgrading to Windows 10, at which point everything else
  can get installed.

  A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and
  physical machinery seems to be that it was designed with a
  specific age of computer in mind, and requires that system to run.

  On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman"
  mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

  How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC?  What if you
  had the files from the old one?


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340 
  Direct: 937-552-2343 
  1100 Wayne St
  
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
  Suite 1337
  
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
  Troy, OH 45373
  
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>

  On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 

  mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> w

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Mike Hammett]

https://www.veeam.com/windows-endpoint-server-backup-free.html 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 1:42:53 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore 


Not running a vm so seems not applicable 


On Dec 26, 2017 12:39 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Have you checked Veeam yet? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" < li...@packetflux.com > 
To: "af" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 1:38:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore 


Thats sort of what I do now, the concern being keeping them in sync. 


As time goes on machine configs change, bugs are fixed, drivers updated etc.. 
So I want to be able to make a copy of the image regularly to some backup 
medium without going through the hassle of starting up the backup machines. 
Which is what I started this thread about. 


Most of these I have identical devices on the shelf. With varying definitions 
of identical. Usually the only change will be memory or disk or something like 
a video card which doesn't matter that much. Definitely not enough to prevent 
an image copy from working. 




On Dec 26, 2017 8:33 AM, "Josh Luthman" < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > wrote: 



What if you just bought say 2-4 identical new machines at $400 each and then 
imaged from one to the next. Then just store the extra machines nearby. 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert < i...@avantwireless.com > wrote: 


Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct cause 
of with their moving target of proprietary OS's... I hope the designers of that 
are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for eternity... 

On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: 


There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which works 
consistently on modern hardware. Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd have to 
triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the whole issue 
would be irrelevant. So I'm stuck with a chunk of older equipment, which still 
works extremely well, except for it being a pain to set up automation with it. 





On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > wrote: 

We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a 
specific window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We 
had to use an intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough 
to make them work eventually. 
We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program 
various ages of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to 
decide it want worth it and just told the customers it was EOL. I 
know you don't have the luxury. 


On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
< li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 

The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild 
last time we had a software issue even with carefully logged 
instructions. 

To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this 
machine two particular drivers for two different pieces of 
hardware. One won't install on anything after Windows 7. The 
other one requires windows 8.1 or 10. Fortunately the driver 
which requires windows 7 to install works just fine on the 
latter versions, it just won't install on them. I think it uses 
some functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7. So 
a rebuild involves installing windows 7, installing this driver, 
and then upgrading to Windows 10, at which point everything else 
can get installed. 

A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and 
physical machinery seems to be that it was designed with a 
specific age of computer in mind, and requires that system to run. 

On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
< j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
> wrote: 

How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC? What if you 
had the files from the old one? 


Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340  
Direct: 937-552-2343  
1100 Wayne St 
< 
https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
 > 
Suite 1337 
< 
https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
 > 
Troy, OH 45373 
< 
https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
 > 

On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 


< li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 

If I coul

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Not running a vm so seems not applicable

On Dec 26, 2017 12:39 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Have you checked Veeam yet?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, December 26, 2017 1:38:29 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>
> Thats sort of what I do now, the concern being keeping them in sync.
>
> As time goes on machine configs change, bugs are fixed, drivers updated
> etc..   So I want to be able to make a copy of the image regularly to some
> backup medium without going through the hassle of starting up the backup
> machines.  Which is what I started this thread about.
>
> Most of these I have identical devices on the shelf.   With varying
> definitions of identical.  Usually the only change will be memory or disk
> or something like a video card which doesn't matter that much.  Definitely
> not enough to prevent an image copy from working.
>
>
> On Dec 26, 2017 8:33 AM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
>> What if you just bought say 2-4 identical new machines at $400 each and
>> then imaged from one to the next.  Then just store the extra machines
>> nearby.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> Suite 1337
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>
>>> Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct
>>> cause of with their moving target of proprietary OS's...   I hope the
>>> designers of that are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for
>>> eternity...
>>>
>>> On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>>
>>>> There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which
>>>> works consistently on modern hardware.  Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd
>>>> have to triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the
>>>> whole issue would be irrelevant.  So I'm stuck with a chunk of older
>>>> equipment, which still works extremely well, except for it being a pain to
>>>> set up automation with it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman" >>> <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a
>>>> specific window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We
>>>> had to use an intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough
>>>> to make them work eventually.
>>>> We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program
>>>> various ages of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to
>>>> decide it want worth it and just told the customers it was EOL. I
>>>> know you don't have the luxury.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account)
>>>> mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild
>>>> last time we had a software issue even with carefully logged
>>>> instructions.
>>>>
>>>> To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this
>>>> machine

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Mike Hammett]

Have you checked Veeam yet? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 1:38:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore 


Thats sort of what I do now, the concern being keeping them in sync. 


As time goes on machine configs change, bugs are fixed, drivers updated etc.. 
So I want to be able to make a copy of the image regularly to some backup 
medium without going through the hassle of starting up the backup machines. 
Which is what I started this thread about. 


Most of these I have identical devices on the shelf. With varying definitions 
of identical. Usually the only change will be memory or disk or something like 
a video card which doesn't matter that much. Definitely not enough to prevent 
an image copy from working. 




On Dec 26, 2017 8:33 AM, "Josh Luthman" < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > wrote: 



What if you just bought say 2-4 identical new machines at $400 each and then 
imaged from one to the next. Then just store the extra machines nearby. 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert < i...@avantwireless.com > wrote: 


Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct cause 
of with their moving target of proprietary OS's... I hope the designers of that 
are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for eternity... 

On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: 


There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which works 
consistently on modern hardware. Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd have to 
triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the whole issue 
would be irrelevant. So I'm stuck with a chunk of older equipment, which still 
works extremely well, except for it being a pain to set up automation with it. 





On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman" < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > wrote: 

We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a 
specific window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We 
had to use an intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough 
to make them work eventually. 
We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program 
various ages of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to 
decide it want worth it and just told the customers it was EOL. I 
know you don't have the luxury. 


On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
< li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 

The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild 
last time we had a software issue even with carefully logged 
instructions. 

To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this 
machine two particular drivers for two different pieces of 
hardware. One won't install on anything after Windows 7. The 
other one requires windows 8.1 or 10. Fortunately the driver 
which requires windows 7 to install works just fine on the 
latter versions, it just won't install on them. I think it uses 
some functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7. So 
a rebuild involves installing windows 7, installing this driver, 
and then upgrading to Windows 10, at which point everything else 
can get installed. 

A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and 
physical machinery seems to be that it was designed with a 
specific age of computer in mind, and requires that system to run. 

On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
< j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
> wrote: 

How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC? What if you 
had the files from the old one? 


Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340  
Direct: 937-552-2343  
1100 Wayne St 
< 
https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
 > 
Suite 1337 
< 
https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
 > 
Troy, OH 45373 
< 
https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g
 > 

On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 


< li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 

If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider 
it. Unfortunately, due to the fact that these machines 
are not really 'servers' or 'workstations' but instead 
'automation/test platforms', that is not really a 
possibility. The OS on these machines need direct 
access to the hardware. Often, the drivers/software are 
doing horrible things under the surface to windows to 
make it work. Adding a VM layer just isn't practical 
in this case. National Instruments describes it best: 

"N

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Thats sort of what I do now, the concern being keeping them in sync.

As time goes on machine configs change, bugs are fixed, drivers updated
etc..   So I want to be able to make a copy of the image regularly to some
backup medium without going through the hassle of starting up the backup
machines.  Which is what I started this thread about.

Most of these I have identical devices on the shelf.   With varying
definitions of identical.  Usually the only change will be memory or disk
or something like a video card which doesn't matter that much.  Definitely
not enough to prevent an image copy from working.


On Dec 26, 2017 8:33 AM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> What if you just bought say 2-4 identical new machines at $400 each and
> then imaged from one to the next.  Then just store the extra machines
> nearby.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> 
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>
> On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert  wrote:
>
>> Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct
>> cause of with their moving target of proprietary OS's...   I hope the
>> designers of that are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for
>> eternity...
>>
>> On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>>> There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which
>>> works consistently on modern hardware.  Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd
>>> have to triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the
>>> whole issue would be irrelevant.  So I'm stuck with a chunk of older
>>> equipment, which still works extremely well, except for it being a pain to
>>> set up automation with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman" >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a
>>> specific window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We
>>> had to use an intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough
>>> to make them work eventually.
>>> We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program
>>> various ages of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to
>>> decide it want worth it and just told the customers it was EOL. I
>>> know you don't have the luxury.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account)
>>> mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild
>>> last time we had a software issue even with carefully logged
>>> instructions.
>>>
>>> To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this
>>> machine two particular drivers for two different pieces of
>>> hardware.   One won't install on anything after Windows 7.  The
>>> other one requires windows 8.1 or 10.   Fortunately the driver
>>> which requires windows 7 to install works just fine on the
>>> latter versions, it just won't install on them.  I think it uses
>>> some functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7.  So
>>> a rebuild involves installing windows 7, installing this driver,
>>> and then upgrading to Windows 10, at which point everything else
>>> can get installed.
>>>
>>> A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and
>>> physical machinery seems to be that it was designed with a
>>> specific age of computer in mind, and requires that system to
>>> run.
>>>
>>> On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman"
>>> >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC?  What if you
>>> had the files from the old one?
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340 
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> 
>>> >> H+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> Suite 1337
>>> >> H+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> >> H+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>> On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
>>>
>>> mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider
>>> it.  Unfortunately

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Josh Luthman]

What if you just bought say 2-4 identical new machines at $400 each and
then imaged from one to the next.  Then just store the extra machines
nearby.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert  wrote:

> Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct
> cause of with their moving target of proprietary OS's...   I hope the
> designers of that are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for
> eternity...
>
> On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
>> There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which
>> works consistently on modern hardware.  Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd
>> have to triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the
>> whole issue would be irrelevant.  So I'm stuck with a chunk of older
>> equipment, which still works extremely well, except for it being a pain to
>> set up automation with it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman" > > wrote:
>>
>> We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a
>> specific window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We
>> had to use an intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough
>> to make them work eventually.
>> We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program
>> various ages of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to
>> decide it want worth it and just told the customers it was EOL. I
>> know you don't have the luxury.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account)
>> mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:
>>
>> The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild
>> last time we had a software issue even with carefully logged
>> instructions.
>>
>> To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this
>> machine two particular drivers for two different pieces of
>> hardware.   One won't install on anything after Windows 7.  The
>> other one requires windows 8.1 or 10.   Fortunately the driver
>> which requires windows 7 to install works just fine on the
>> latter versions, it just won't install on them.  I think it uses
>> some functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7.  So
>> a rebuild involves installing windows 7, installing this driver,
>> and then upgrading to Windows 10, at which point everything else
>> can get installed.
>>
>> A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and
>> physical machinery seems to be that it was designed with a
>> specific age of computer in mind, and requires that system to run.
>>
>> On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman"
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC?  What if you
>> had the files from the old one?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> > OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> Suite 1337
>> > OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> > OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
>>
>> mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:
>>
>> If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider
>> it.  Unfortunately, due to the fact that these machines
>> are not really 'servers' or 'workstations' but instead
>> 'automation/test platforms', that is not really a
>> possibility.   The OS on these machines need direct
>> access to the hardware.  Often, the drivers/software are
>> doing horrible things under the surface to windows to
>> make it work.   Adding a VM layer just isn't practical
>> in this case.   National Instruments describes it best:
>>
>> "NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to
>> communication challenges and the possibility of
>> incorrect data.Virtual machines generally cannot access
>> the PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments
>> are inherently incompatible with VMs, as are MXI
>> connected PXI and PXIe chassis. Modern VMs often allow
>> access to USB ports (known as USB pass-through). Given
>> the hosted nature of the VM, the variable speed of data
>> transfer ass

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Robert]

Which would be the whole loss of industry that Microsoft was the direct 
cause of with their moving target of proprietary OS's...   I hope the 
designers of that are headed to perdition of non-installing drivers for 
eternity...


On 12/23/17 9:56 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which 
works consistently on modern hardware.  Unfortunately to do so I figure 
I'd have to triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, 
and the whole issue would be irrelevant.  So I'm stuck with a chunk of 
older equipment, which still works extremely well, except for it being a 
pain to set up automation with it.






On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman" > wrote:


We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a
specific window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We
had to use an intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough
to make them work eventually.
We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program
various ages of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to
decide it want worth it and just told the customers it was EOL. I
know you don't have the luxury.


On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account)
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:

The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild
last time we had a software issue even with carefully logged
instructions.

To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this
machine two particular drivers for two different pieces of
hardware.   One won't install on anything after Windows 7.  The
other one requires windows 8.1 or 10.   Fortunately the driver
which requires windows 7 to install works just fine on the
latter versions, it just won't install on them.  I think it uses
some functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7.  So
a rebuild involves installing windows 7, installing this driver,
and then upgrading to Windows 10, at which point everything else
can get installed.

A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and
physical machinery seems to be that it was designed with a
specific age of computer in mind, and requires that system to run.

On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman"
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC?  What if you
had the files from the old one?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St


Suite 1337


Troy, OH 45373



On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:

If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider
it.  Unfortunately, due to the fact that these machines
are not really 'servers' or 'workstations' but instead
'automation/test platforms', that is not really a
possibility.   The OS on these machines need direct
access to the hardware.  Often, the drivers/software are
doing horrible things under the surface to windows to
make it work.   Adding a VM layer just isn't practical
in this case.   National Instruments describes it best:

"NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to
communication challenges and the possibility of
incorrect data.Virtual machines generally cannot access
the PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments
are inherently incompatible with VMs, as are MXI
connected PXI and PXIe chassis. Modern VMs often allow
access to USB ports (known as USB pass-through). Given
the hosted nature of the VM, the variable speed of data
transfer associated with USB pass-through may cause
errors when communicating with DAQ devices."

My experience is that even pci or pcie passthrough which
is supported in some VM's still isn't enough to permit
this stuff to run reliably - it's a lot like the
USB-passthrough issue described above.

In my experience, failures are usually going to be
software or disk, not the underlying hardware.   If the
underlying hardware fails, I realize

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[chuck]

Ah, I did a ATE relay matrix once using a ISA board.  

Yep, I guess lots of shift registers and something to feed them.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 10:58 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

Funny you should mention that, since I have been slowly trying to do that very 
thing with a few of the more annoying and easiest to recreate pieces.   The 
relay matrix being the current project.

On Dec 23, 2017 9:26 AM,  wrote:

  Forrest, I know you are smart enough to design your own ATE hardware that 
could either be USB based or have the CPU/MCU onboard.  Then you would not be 
dependent on the PC hardware.  I also understand that it would be a large 
undertaking and would use your talent resources that should be spent on your 
products.

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 2:18 AM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

  The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild last time we 
had a software issue even with carefully logged instructions. 

  To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this machine two 
particular drivers for two different pieces of hardware.   One won't install on 
anything after Windows 7.  The other one requires windows 8.1 or 10.   
Fortunately the driver which requires windows 7 to install works just fine on 
the latter versions, it just won't install on them.  I think it uses some 
functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7.  So a rebuild involves 
installing windows 7, installing this driver, and then upgrading to Windows 10, 
at which point everything else can get installed.

  A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and physical machinery 
seems to be that it was designed with a specific age of computer in mind, and 
requires that system to run.  

  On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC?  What if you had the files 
from the old one? 



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

  If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider it.  
Unfortunately, due to the fact that these machines are not really 'servers' or 
'workstations' but instead 'automation/test platforms', that is not really a 
possibility.   The OS on these machines need direct access to the hardware.  
Often, the drivers/software are doing horrible things under the surface to 
windows to make it work.   Adding a VM layer just isn't practical in this case. 
  National Instruments describes it best: 

  "NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to communication challenges and 
the possibility of incorrect data.Virtual machines generally cannot access the 
PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments are inherently incompatible 
with VMs, as are MXI connected PXI and PXIe chassis. Modern VMs often allow 
access to USB ports (known as USB pass-through). Given the hosted nature of the 
VM, the variable speed of data transfer associated with USB pass-through may 
cause errors when communicating with DAQ devices." 

  My experience is that even pci or pcie passthrough which is supported in 
some VM's still isn't enough to permit this stuff to run reliably - it's a lot 
like the USB-passthrough issue described above.


  In my experience, failures are usually going to be software or disk, not 
the underlying hardware.   If the underlying hardware fails, I realize that I'm 
stuck unless I have identical hardware.   Knowing this, I often actually have 
an identical motherboard and/or server setting as part of the spares.   And by 
identical, I mean exact version, often bought at the same time, or from the 
same batch. 

  On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

Images for Windows between any two machines simply isn't dependable.  
DO NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK. 

Now if you can put all your stuff in a VM, you're set.  Put it in 
Dropbox for a cheap smart (bit change only) backup.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Dec 21, 2017 11:06 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

  Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure 
I don't lose data. 

  I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to 
rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a 
machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.   
These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off the 
shelf hardware running various version

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Funny you should mention that, since I have been slowly trying to do that
very thing with a few of the more annoying and easiest to recreate pieces.
 The relay matrix being the current project.

On Dec 23, 2017 9:26 AM,  wrote:

> Forrest, I know you are smart enough to design your own ATE hardware that
> could either be USB based or have the CPU/MCU onboard.  Then you would not
> be dependent on the PC hardware.  I also understand that it would be a
> large undertaking and would use your talent resources that should be spent
> on your products.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 23, 2017 2:18 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>
> The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild last time
> we had a software issue even with carefully logged instructions.
>
> To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this machine two
> particular drivers for two different pieces of hardware.   One won't
> install on anything after Windows 7.  The other one requires windows 8.1 or
> 10.   Fortunately the driver which requires windows 7 to install works just
> fine on the latter versions, it just won't install on them.  I think it
> uses some functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7.  So a
> rebuild involves installing windows 7, installing this driver, and then
> upgrading to Windows 10, at which point everything else can get installed.
>
> A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and physical
> machinery seems to be that it was designed with a specific age of computer
> in mind, and requires that system to run.
>
> On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
> How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC?  What if you had the files
> from the old one?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
> Suite 1337
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
> Troy, OH 45373
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider it.  Unfortunately,
> due to the fact that these machines are not really 'servers' or
> 'workstations' but instead 'automation/test platforms', that is not really
> a possibility.   The OS on these machines need direct access to the
> hardware.  Often, the drivers/software are doing horrible things under the
> surface to windows to make it work.   Adding a VM layer just isn't
> practical in this case.   National Instruments describes it best:
>
> "NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to communication challenges and
> the possibility of incorrect data.Virtual machines generally cannot access
> the PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments are inherently
> incompatible with VMs, as are MXI connected PXI and PXIe chassis. Modern
> VMs often allow access to USB ports (known as USB pass-through). Given the
> hosted nature of the VM, the variable speed of data transfer associated
> with USB pass-through may cause errors when communicating with DAQ
> devices."
>
> My experience is that even pci or pcie passthrough which is supported in
> some VM's still isn't enough to permit this stuff to run reliably - it's a
> lot like the USB-passthrough issue described above.
>
> In my experience, failures are usually going to be software or disk, not
> the underlying hardware.   If the underlying hardware fails, I realize that
> I'm stuck unless I have identical hardware.   Knowing this, I often
> actually have an identical motherboard and/or server setting as part of the
> spares.   And by identical, I mean exact version, often bought at the same
> time, or from the same batch.
>
> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> Images for Windows between any two machines simply isn't dependable.  DO
>> NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK.
>>
>> Now if you can put all your stuff in a VM, you're set.  Put it in Dropbox
>> for a cheap smart (bit change only) backup.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=g

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

There are lots of days that I just want to go buy all new stuff which works
consistently on modern hardware.  Unfortunately to do so I figure I'd have
to triple my prices, at which point no one would buy anything, and the
whole issue would be irrelevant.  So I'm stuck with a chunk of older
equipment, which still works extremely well, except for it being a pain to
set up automation with it.





On Dec 23, 2017 4:19 AM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a specific
> window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We had to use an
> intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough to make them work
> eventually.
> We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program various ages
> of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to decide it want worth
> it and just told the customers it was EOL. I know you don't have the luxury.
>
> On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild last
>> time we had a software issue even with carefully logged instructions.
>>
>> To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this machine two
>> particular drivers for two different pieces of hardware.   One won't
>> install on anything after Windows 7.  The other one requires windows 8.1 or
>> 10.   Fortunately the driver which requires windows 7 to install works just
>> fine on the latter versions, it just won't install on them.  I think it
>> uses some functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7.  So a
>> rebuild involves installing windows 7, installing this driver, and then
>> upgrading to Windows 10, at which point everything else can get installed.
>>
>> A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and physical
>> machinery seems to be that it was designed with a specific age of computer
>> in mind, and requires that system to run.
>>
>> On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC?  What if you had the
>> files from the old one?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> 
>> Suite 1337
>> 
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>
>> On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>> If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider it.
>> Unfortunately, due to the fact that these machines are not really 'servers'
>> or 'workstations' but instead 'automation/test platforms', that is not
>> really a possibility.   The OS on these machines need direct access to the
>> hardware.  Often, the drivers/software are doing horrible things under the
>> surface to windows to make it work.   Adding a VM layer just isn't
>> practical in this case.   National Instruments describes it best:
>>
>> "NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to communication challenges and
>> the possibility of incorrect data.Virtual machines generally cannot access
>> the PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments are inherently
>> incompatible with VMs, as are MXI connected PXI and PXIe chassis. Modern
>> VMs often allow access to USB ports (known as USB pass-through). Given the
>> hosted nature of the VM, the variable speed of data transfer associated
>> with USB pass-through may cause errors when communicating with DAQ devices."
>>
>> My experience is that even pci or pcie passthrough which is supported in
>> some VM's still isn't enough to permit this stuff to run reliably - it's a
>> lot like the USB-passthrough issue described above.
>>
>> In my experience, failures are usually going to be software or disk, not
>> the underlying hardware.   If the underlying hardware fails, I realize that
>> I'm stuck unless I have identical hardware.   Knowing this, I often
>> actually have an identical motherboard and/or server setting as part of the
>> spares.   And by identical, I mean exact version, often bought at the same
>> time, or from the same batch.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Images for Windows between any two machines simply isn't dependable.  DO
>>> NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK.
>>>
>>> Now if you can put all your stuff in a VM, you're set.  Put it in
>>> Dropbox for a cheap smart (bit change only) backup.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> 
>>> Suite 1337
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[chuck]

Forrest, I know you are smart enough to design your own ATE hardware that could 
either be USB based or have the CPU/MCU onboard.  Then you would not be 
dependent on the PC hardware.  I also understand that it would be a large 
undertaking and would use your talent resources that should be spent on your 
products.

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 2:18 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild last time we 
had a software issue even with carefully logged instructions. 

To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this machine two 
particular drivers for two different pieces of hardware.   One won't install on 
anything after Windows 7.  The other one requires windows 8.1 or 10.   
Fortunately the driver which requires windows 7 to install works just fine on 
the latter versions, it just won't install on them.  I think it uses some 
functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7.  So a rebuild involves 
installing windows 7, installing this driver, and then upgrading to Windows 10, 
at which point everything else can get installed.

A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and physical machinery 
seems to be that it was designed with a specific age of computer in mind, and 
requires that system to run.  

On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

  How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC?  What if you had the files 
from the old one? 



  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider it.  Unfortunately, 
due to the fact that these machines are not really 'servers' or 'workstations' 
but instead 'automation/test platforms', that is not really a possibility.   
The OS on these machines need direct access to the hardware.  Often, the 
drivers/software are doing horrible things under the surface to windows to make 
it work.   Adding a VM layer just isn't practical in this case.   National 
Instruments describes it best: 

"NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to communication challenges and 
the possibility of incorrect data.Virtual machines generally cannot access the 
PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments are inherently incompatible 
with VMs, as are MXI connected PXI and PXIe chassis. Modern VMs often allow 
access to USB ports (known as USB pass-through). Given the hosted nature of the 
VM, the variable speed of data transfer associated with USB pass-through may 
cause errors when communicating with DAQ devices." 

My experience is that even pci or pcie passthrough which is supported in 
some VM's still isn't enough to permit this stuff to run reliably - it's a lot 
like the USB-passthrough issue described above.


In my experience, failures are usually going to be software or disk, not 
the underlying hardware.   If the underlying hardware fails, I realize that I'm 
stuck unless I have identical hardware.   Knowing this, I often actually have 
an identical motherboard and/or server setting as part of the spares.   And by 
identical, I mean exact version, often bought at the same time, or from the 
same batch. 

On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

  Images for Windows between any two machines simply isn't dependable.  DO 
NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK. 

  Now if you can put all your stuff in a VM, you're set.  Put it in Dropbox 
for a cheap smart (bit change only) backup.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Dec 21, 2017 11:06 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I 
don't lose data. 

I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to 
rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a 
machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.   
These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off the 
shelf hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take a full 
image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on similar 
hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage medium) and it 
just work.  

It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's 
been discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm 
looking for whatever the current modern version is.

I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis, 
etc).   But the reviews are all littered with 

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Lewis Bergman]

We delt with the same thing with radios. Programs requiring a specific
window of CPU clock speed to communicate with a device. We had to use an
intermediate program loop to slow the CPU down enough to make them work
eventually.
We ended up with a half dozen old computers around to program various ages
of equipment. Unlike you, we eventually were able to decide it want worth
it and just told the customers it was EOL. I know you don't have the luxury.

On Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 3:19 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild last time
> we had a software issue even with carefully logged instructions.
>
> To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this machine two
> particular drivers for two different pieces of hardware.   One won't
> install on anything after Windows 7.  The other one requires windows 8.1 or
> 10.   Fortunately the driver which requires windows 7 to install works just
> fine on the latter versions, it just won't install on them.  I think it
> uses some functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7.  So a
> rebuild involves installing windows 7, installing this driver, and then
> upgrading to Windows 10, at which point everything else can get installed.
>
> A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and physical
> machinery seems to be that it was designed with a specific age of computer
> in mind, and requires that system to run.
>
> On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
> How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC?  What if you had the files
> from the old one?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> 
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>
> On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider it.  Unfortunately,
> due to the fact that these machines are not really 'servers' or
> 'workstations' but instead 'automation/test platforms', that is not really
> a possibility.   The OS on these machines need direct access to the
> hardware.  Often, the drivers/software are doing horrible things under the
> surface to windows to make it work.   Adding a VM layer just isn't
> practical in this case.   National Instruments describes it best:
>
> "NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to communication challenges and
> the possibility of incorrect data.Virtual machines generally cannot access
> the PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments are inherently
> incompatible with VMs, as are MXI connected PXI and PXIe chassis. Modern
> VMs often allow access to USB ports (known as USB pass-through). Given the
> hosted nature of the VM, the variable speed of data transfer associated
> with USB pass-through may cause errors when communicating with DAQ devices."
>
> My experience is that even pci or pcie passthrough which is supported in
> some VM's still isn't enough to permit this stuff to run reliably - it's a
> lot like the USB-passthrough issue described above.
>
> In my experience, failures are usually going to be software or disk, not
> the underlying hardware.   If the underlying hardware fails, I realize that
> I'm stuck unless I have identical hardware.   Knowing this, I often
> actually have an identical motherboard and/or server setting as part of the
> spares.   And by identical, I mean exact version, often bought at the same
> time, or from the same batch.
>
> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> Images for Windows between any two machines simply isn't dependable.  DO
>> NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK.
>>
>> Now if you can put all your stuff in a VM, you're set.  Put it in Dropbox
>> for a cheap smart (bit change only) backup.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> 
>> Suite 1337
>> 
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>
>> On Dec 21, 2017 11:06 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I
>>> don't lose data.
>>>
>>> I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to
>>> rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a
>>> machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place 

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The machine I am most worried about took about a week to rebuild last time
we had a software issue even with carefully logged instructions.

To give everyone an idea about my pain, there are on this machine two
particular drivers for two different pieces of hardware.   One won't
install on anything after Windows 7.  The other one requires windows 8.1 or
10.   Fortunately the driver which requires windows 7 to install works just
fine on the latter versions, it just won't install on them.  I think it
uses some functionality that isn't shipped with windows after 7.  So a
rebuild involves installing windows 7, installing this driver, and then
upgrading to Windows 10, at which point everything else can get installed.

A lot of the problem with much of the test equipment and physical machinery
seems to be that it was designed with a specific age of computer in mind,
and requires that system to run.

On Dec 22, 2017 9:43 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC?  What if you had the files
from the old one?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
1100 Wayne St

Suite 1337

Troy, OH 45373


On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider it.  Unfortunately,
due to the fact that these machines are not really 'servers' or
'workstations' but instead 'automation/test platforms', that is not really
a possibility.   The OS on these machines need direct access to the
hardware.  Often, the drivers/software are doing horrible things under the
surface to windows to make it work.   Adding a VM layer just isn't
practical in this case.   National Instruments describes it best:

"NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to communication challenges and
the possibility of incorrect data.Virtual machines generally cannot access
the PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments are inherently
incompatible with VMs, as are MXI connected PXI and PXIe chassis. Modern
VMs often allow access to USB ports (known as USB pass-through). Given the
hosted nature of the VM, the variable speed of data transfer associated
with USB pass-through may cause errors when communicating with DAQ devices."

My experience is that even pci or pcie passthrough which is supported in
some VM's still isn't enough to permit this stuff to run reliably - it's a
lot like the USB-passthrough issue described above.

In my experience, failures are usually going to be software or disk, not
the underlying hardware.   If the underlying hardware fails, I realize that
I'm stuck unless I have identical hardware.   Knowing this, I often
actually have an identical motherboard and/or server setting as part of the
spares.   And by identical, I mean exact version, often bought at the same
time, or from the same batch.

On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Images for Windows between any two machines simply isn't dependable.  DO
> NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK.
>
> Now if you can put all your stuff in a VM, you're set.  Put it in Dropbox
> for a cheap smart (bit change only) backup.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> 
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>
> On Dec 21, 2017 11:06 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I
>> don't lose data.
>>
>> I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to
>> rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a
>> machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.
>>  These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off
>> the shelf hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take
>> a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on
>> similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage
>> medium) and it just work.
>>
>> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been
>> discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm
>> looking for whatever the current modern version is.
>>
>> I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis,
>> etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately
>> it's hard to tel

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Josh Luthman]

How hard is it to just throw in a brand new PC?  What if you had the files
from the old one?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Dec 22, 2017 5:01 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider it.  Unfortunately,
due to the fact that these machines are not really 'servers' or
'workstations' but instead 'automation/test platforms', that is not really
a possibility.   The OS on these machines need direct access to the
hardware.  Often, the drivers/software are doing horrible things under the
surface to windows to make it work.   Adding a VM layer just isn't
practical in this case.   National Instruments describes it best:

"NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to communication challenges and
the possibility of incorrect data.Virtual machines generally cannot access
the PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments are inherently
incompatible with VMs, as are MXI connected PXI and PXIe chassis. Modern
VMs often allow access to USB ports (known as USB pass-through). Given the
hosted nature of the VM, the variable speed of data transfer associated
with USB pass-through may cause errors when communicating with DAQ devices."

My experience is that even pci or pcie passthrough which is supported in
some VM's still isn't enough to permit this stuff to run reliably - it's a
lot like the USB-passthrough issue described above.

In my experience, failures are usually going to be software or disk, not
the underlying hardware.   If the underlying hardware fails, I realize that
I'm stuck unless I have identical hardware.   Knowing this, I often
actually have an identical motherboard and/or server setting as part of the
spares.   And by identical, I mean exact version, often bought at the same
time, or from the same batch.

On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Images for Windows between any two machines simply isn't dependable.  DO
> NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK.
>
> Now if you can put all your stuff in a VM, you're set.  Put it in Dropbox
> for a cheap smart (bit change only) backup.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> 
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>
> On Dec 21, 2017 11:06 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I
>> don't lose data.
>>
>> I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to
>> rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a
>> machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.
>>  These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off
>> the shelf hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take
>> a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on
>> similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage
>> medium) and it just work.
>>
>> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been
>> discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm
>> looking for whatever the current modern version is.
>>
>> I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis,
>> etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately
>> it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is
>> broken software.
>>
>> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern
>> equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es,
>> and can dump the image onto NAS.
>>
>> --
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> 
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>> 
>>   
>>
>>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Seth Mattinen]

On 12/22/17 2:01 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider it. 
Unfortunately, due to the fact that these machines are not really 
'servers' or 'workstations' but instead 'automation/test platforms', 
that is not really a possibility.   The OS on these machines need direct 
access to the hardware.  Often, the drivers/software are doing horrible 
things under the surface to windows to make it work.   Adding a VM layer 
just isn't practical in this case.   National Instruments describes it best:



lies, VM is perfect, everyone says so, must be true.

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Nate Burke]

It sounds like your biggest concern is a HD failure, or an unexpected 
software crash/update.  A quick amazon search turns up hardware disk 
duplicators, where you just drop in 2 drives and it clones them.  I 
would think something like that would accomplish what you are trying to 
go for.  I think you can also get SATA devices that do raid Transparent 
to the OS Can you boot off a DROBO?.
A long long time ago (Server 2000 maybe? I don't think drives were SATA 
yet), I would use the software raid built into windows.  I'm pretty sure 
I could pull one of the mirrored drives, and it would boot another 
machine of identical hardware.  Once a month change the disk and store 
it with your spare hardware.


On 12/22/2017 4:01 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider it.  
Unfortunately, due to the fact that these machines are not really 
'servers' or 'workstations' but instead 'automation/test platforms', 
that is not really a possibility.  The OS on these machines need 
direct access to the hardware. Often, the drivers/software are doing 
horrible things under the surface to windows to make it work.   Adding 
a VM layer just isn't practical in this case.   National Instruments 
describes it best:


"NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to communication challenges 
and the possibility of incorrect data.Virtual machines generally 
cannot access the PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments 
are inherently incompatible with VMs, as are MXI connected PXI and 
PXIe chassis. Modern VMs often allow access to USB ports (known as USB 
pass-through). Given the hosted nature of the VM, the variable speed 
of data transfer associated with USB pass-through may cause errors 
when communicating with DAQ devices."


My experience is that even pci or pcie passthrough which is supported 
in some VM's still isn't enough to permit this stuff to run reliably - 
it's a lot like the USB-passthrough issue described above.


In my experience, failures are usually going to be software or disk, 
not the underlying hardware.   If the underlying hardware fails, I 
realize that I'm stuck unless I have identical hardware.   Knowing 
this, I often actually have an identical motherboard and/or server 
setting as part of the spares.   And by identical, I mean exact 
version, often bought at the same time, or from the same batch.


On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


Images for Windows between any two machines simply isn't
dependable.  DO NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK.

Now if you can put all your stuff in a VM, you're set.  Put it in
Dropbox for a cheap smart (bit change only) backup.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St


Suite 1337


Troy, OH 45373



On Dec 21, 2017 11:06 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:

Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to
make sure I don't lose data.

I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to
have to rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally
computers which run a machine, such as the automatic test
system and the pick and place machine.   These machines area
all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off the shelf
hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to
take a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of
putting it back on similar hardware (probably same
motherboard, maybe different storage medium) and it just work.

It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But
that's been discontinued (and I understand it was going
downhill before that).  So I'm looking for whatever the
current modern version is.

I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium,
Acronis, etc).   But the reviews are all littered with
failures.  Unfortunately it's hard to tell how much of this is
lack of clue and how much of this is broken software.

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern
equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of
Windows OS'es, and can dump the image onto NAS.

-- 
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
59602


forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.pa

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

If I could put it on a VM, I would definitely consider it.  Unfortunately,
due to the fact that these machines are not really 'servers' or
'workstations' but instead 'automation/test platforms', that is not really
a possibility.   The OS on these machines need direct access to the
hardware.  Often, the drivers/software are doing horrible things under the
surface to windows to make it work.   Adding a VM layer just isn't
practical in this case.   National Instruments describes it best:

"NI hardware is not supported on VMs due to communication challenges and
the possibility of incorrect data.Virtual machines generally cannot access
the PCI bus. As such, PCI- and PCIe-based instruments are inherently
incompatible with VMs, as are MXI connected PXI and PXIe chassis. Modern
VMs often allow access to USB ports (known as USB pass-through). Given the
hosted nature of the VM, the variable speed of data transfer associated
with USB pass-through may cause errors when communicating with DAQ devices."

My experience is that even pci or pcie passthrough which is supported in
some VM's still isn't enough to permit this stuff to run reliably - it's a
lot like the USB-passthrough issue described above.

In my experience, failures are usually going to be software or disk, not
the underlying hardware.   If the underlying hardware fails, I realize that
I'm stuck unless I have identical hardware.   Knowing this, I often
actually have an identical motherboard and/or server setting as part of the
spares.   And by identical, I mean exact version, often bought at the same
time, or from the same batch.

On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Images for Windows between any two machines simply isn't dependable.  DO
> NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK.
>
> Now if you can put all your stuff in a VM, you're set.  Put it in Dropbox
> for a cheap smart (bit change only) backup.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> 
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>
> On Dec 21, 2017 11:06 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I
>> don't lose data.
>>
>> I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to
>> rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a
>> machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.
>>  These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off
>> the shelf hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take
>> a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on
>> similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage
>> medium) and it just work.
>>
>> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been
>> discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm
>> looking for whatever the current modern version is.
>>
>> I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis,
>> etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately
>> it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is
>> broken software.
>>
>> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern
>> equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es,
>> and can dump the image onto NAS.
>>
>> --
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> 
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>> 
>>   
>>
>>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Adam Moffett]

This is exactly what finally sold me on virtualization.  You don't need 
the hardware if you have the disk image.  Even if I ran a single 
installation on a single machine, I'd still consider whether I can put 
the hypervisor in between or if it needed direct access to hardware for 
some reason.


An added benefit that I saw which nobody ever talked about in the 
articles on the topic was this:  I need 20 servers, but I don't have the 
budget for 20 really nice servers, so I end up with 20 mediocre ones.  
If I virtualize, then I can buy 3 or 4 really nice servers and run 20 
VM's.  Everything ended up being more reliable, cheaper, and easier to 
manage.  I'm not ever going back.




-- Original Message --
From: "Stefan Englhardt" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/22/2017 11:03:27 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

Yes. Go virtual where possible. We use Vmware Esxi 6.5 which is free 
and has a Web admin interface. With ghettoVCB which is free we do 
backups while machines are running to a NAS. If the vmware machine dies 
we could start up the virtual machines from a second vmware server 
right from the NAS. Makes me sleep better than with HW which could fail 
and  it may last a day until restored. There are old win2003 virtual 
servers which you don't want to have on their original Hardware...


 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Faisal Imtiaz 
Datum: 22.12.17 16:37 (GMT+01:00)
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

FYI... Just because Norton Ghost is being discoed, it does not mean 
that your copy will stop working.

(At the end of the day, these are 'disc duplicators' / bit copiers)
There are a number of Open Source alternatives available... e.g  
Clonezilla , Partimage, FOG Projects etc etc etc.


Having said that.. My personal suggestion for you would be to re-think 
running stand alone machines and consider virtualization..
It may be a bit of a learning curve in the beginning, but moving 
forward in the future, it is going to save you a lot of time and grief.
(since VM's are just another File..doing backup other maint. events are 
easy as pie ! )


Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:06:30 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure 
I don't lose data.
I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to 
rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which 
run a machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and 
place machine.   These machines area all typically single-drive 
(non-mirrored) mostly off the shelf hardware running various versions 
of windows.   I'd like to take a full image, and have at least a 
reasonable chance of putting it back on similar hardware (probably 
same motherboard, maybe different storage medium) and it just work.


It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's 
been discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before 
that).  So I'm looking for whatever the current modern version is.


I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis, 
etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   
Unfortunately it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and 
how much of this is broken software.


I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern 
equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows 
OS'es, and can dump the image onto NAS.


--
Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com 
<http://www.packetflux.com/>
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>  
<http://facebook.com/packetflux>  <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Josh Luthman]

Images for Windows between any two machines simply isn't dependable.  DO
NOT EXPECT IT TO WORK.

Now if you can put all your stuff in a VM, you're set.  Put it in Dropbox
for a cheap smart (bit change only) backup.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Dec 21, 2017 11:06 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I
> don't lose data.
>
> I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to
> rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a
> machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.
>  These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off
> the shelf hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take
> a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on
> similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage
> medium) and it just work.
>
> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been
> discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm
> looking for whatever the current modern version is.
>
> I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis,
> etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately
> it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is
> broken software.
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern
> equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es,
> and can dump the image onto NAS.
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> 
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Stefan Englhardt]

Yes. Go virtual where possible. We use Vmware Esxi 6.5 which is free and has a 
Web admin interface. With ghettoVCB which is free we do backups while machines 
are running to a NAS. If the vmware machine dies we could start up the virtual 
machines from a second vmware server right from the NAS. Makes me sleep better 
than with HW which could fail and  it may last a day until restored. There are 
old win2003 virtual servers which you don't want to have on their original 
Hardware...

 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Faisal Imtiaz  
Datum: 22.12.17  16:37  (GMT+01:00) 
An: af@afmug.com 
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore 

FYI... Just because Norton Ghost is being discoed, it does not mean that your 
copy will stop working.
    (At the end of the day, these are 'disc duplicators' / bit copiers)
    There are a number of Open Source alternatives available... e.g  Clonezilla 
, Partimage, FOG Projects etc etc etc.

Having said that.. My personal suggestion for you would be to re-think running 
stand alone machines and consider virtualization..
It may be a bit of a learning curve in the beginning, but moving forward in the 
future, it is going to save you a lot of time and grief.
(since VM's are just another File..doing backup other maint. events are easy as 
pie ! )

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:06:30 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I don't 
lose data.
I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to rebuild 
due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a machine, 
such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.   These 
machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off the shelf 
hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take a full image, 
and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on similar hardware 
(probably same motherboard, maybe different storage medium) and it just work.  
It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been 
discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm 
looking for whatever the current modern version is.
I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis, etc).   
But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately it's hard to 
tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is broken software.
I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern equivalents?  
Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es, and can dump the 
image onto NAS.
-- 
Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 
59602forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Brian Webster]

Yes, it runs very much like ghost. 

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:29 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

 

So, clonezilla seems to be 'reboot into this tool and take an image'.   Is this 
correct?   

 

I'm definitely not opposed to this idea, probably actually better than the 
'make an image from the running windows box' option.I can then use a 
standard backup tool for the day to day (file) backup operations.

 

Mainly what I'm worried about backing up is all of the nightmarish driver 
installation and configuration which goes along with using a PC to control 
hardware.   And then on an ongoing basis 'operational programs', but those are 
more traditional files which a normal backup would grab.

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

+1 on Clonezilla.

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Brian Webster" 

To: af@afmug.com

Sent: 12/21/2017 11:18:30 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

 

I have used Clonezilla with good success. They have a live CD version you can 
burn the image, Linux based and free.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:07 PM
To: af
Subject: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

 

Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I don't 
lose data.

 

I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to rebuild 
due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a machine, 
such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.   These 
machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off the shelf 
hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take a full image, 
and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on similar hardware 
(probably same motherboard, maybe different storage medium) and it just work.  

 

It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been 
discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm 
looking for whatever the current modern version is.

 

I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis, etc).   
But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately it's hard to 
tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is broken software.

 

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern equivalents?  
Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es, and can dump the 
image onto NAS.

 

-- 


Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345   | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, 
Helena, MT 59602 
<https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>
 

 <mailto:forre...@imach.com> forre...@imach.com |  <http://www.packetflux.com/> 
http://www.packetflux.com

 <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>   <http://facebook.com/packetflux>   
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux> 

  <http://ws-stats.appspot.com/t/pixel.png?e=setup_page_outlook_compose>   
<http://ws-stats.appspot.com/t/pixel.png?e=setup_page_outlook_active&uid=e965778f9a351fad7a8a860dffc144ce>
   
<http://ws-stats.appspot.com/t/pixel.png?e=setup_page_outlook_active&uid=e965778f9a351fad7a8a860dffc144ce>
 





 

-- 


Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

 <mailto:forre...@imach.com> forre...@imach.com |  <http://www.packetflux.com/> 
http://www.packetflux.com

 <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>   <http://facebook.com/packetflux>   
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux> 

  <http://ws-stats.appspot.com/t/pixel.png?e=setup_page_outlook_compose>   
<http://ws-stats.appspot.com/t/pixel.png?e=setup_page_outlook_active&uid=e965778f9a351fad7a8a860dffc144ce>
   
<http://ws-stats.appspot.com/t/pixel.png?e=setup_page_outlook_active&uid=e965778f9a351fad7a8a860dffc144ce>
 

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Faisal Imtiaz]

FYI... Just because Norton Ghost is being discoed, it does not mean that your 
copy will stop working. 
(At the end of the day, these are 'disc duplicators' / bit copiers) 
There are a number of Open Source alternatives available... e.g Clonezilla , 
Partimage, FOG Projects etc etc etc. 

Having said that.. My personal suggestion for you would be to re-think running 
stand alone machines and consider virtualization.. 
It may be a bit of a learning curve in the beginning, but moving forward in the 
future, it is going to save you a lot of time and grief. 
(since VM's are just another File..doing backup other maint. events are easy as 
pie ! ) 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> To: "af" 
> Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:06:30 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

> Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I don't
> lose data.
> I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to rebuild
> due to hardware failure. These are generally computers which run a machine,
> such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine. These
> machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off the shelf
> hardware running various versions of windows. I'd like to take a full image,
> and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on similar hardware
> (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage medium) and it just work.

> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost. But that's been
> discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that). So I'm
> looking for whatever the current modern version is.

> I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis, etc). 
> But
> the reviews are all littered with failures. Unfortunately it's hard to tell 
> how
> much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is broken software.

> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern equivalents?
> Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es, and can dump the
> image onto NAS.

> --
> Forrest Christian CEO , PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Micah Miller]

Why not use Windows backup (assuming windows 7 or better)? It's included
and can be used over the network or to a local drive.  We do a full
baremetal image with it.

On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Timothy Steele 
wrote:

> https://www.acronis.com/en-us/lp/personal/semmob?cvosrc=ppc.
> google.acronis%20true%20image&cvo_campaign=905052710&cvo_
> crid=241247173177&matchtype=e&partner=mf&gclid=Cj0KCQiA9_
> LRBRDZARIsAAcLXjd4IPUPVI1JNz_aUDxrEVR__wQBrOO9eGAo-
> ThfySXtDUcdPoSi_ocaAqOXEALw_wcB
>
> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 7:23 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> Veeam?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
>> *To: *"af" 
>> *Sent: *Thursday, December 21, 2017 10:06:30 PM
>>
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>>
>> Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I
>> don't lose data.
>>
>> I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to
>> rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a
>> machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.
>>  These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off
>> the shelf hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take
>> a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on
>> similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage
>> medium) and it just work.
>>
>> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been
>> discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm
>> looking for whatever the current modern version is.
>>
>> I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis,
>> etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately
>> it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is
>> broken software.
>>
>> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern
>> equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es,
>> and can dump the image onto NAS.
>>
>> --
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>  <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>
>>


-- 
Micah Miller
Network/Server Administrator
Network Business Systems, Inc.
Phone: 309-944-8823

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Timothy Steele]

https://www.acronis.com/en-us/lp/personal/semmob?cvosrc=ppc.google.acronis%20true%20image&cvo_campaign=905052710&cvo_crid=241247173177&matchtype=e&partner=mf&gclid=Cj0KCQiA9_LRBRDZARIsAAcLXjd4IPUPVI1JNz_aUDxrEVR__wQBrOO9eGAo-ThfySXtDUcdPoSi_ocaAqOXEALw_wcB

On Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 7:23 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Veeam?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, December 21, 2017 10:06:30 PM
>
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>
> Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I
> don't lose data.
>
> I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to
> rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a
> machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.
>  These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off
> the shelf hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take
> a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on
> similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage
> medium) and it just work.
>
> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been
> discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm
> looking for whatever the current modern version is.
>
> I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis,
> etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately
> it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is
> broken software.
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern
> equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es,
> and can dump the image onto NAS.
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>  <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
>   <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Mike Hammett]

Veeam? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 10:06:30 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore 


Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I don't 
lose data. 


I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to rebuild 
due to hardware failure. These are generally computers which run a machine, 
such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine. These 
machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off the shelf 
hardware running various versions of windows. I'd like to take a full image, 
and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on similar hardware 
(probably same motherboard, maybe different storage medium) and it just work. 


It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost. But that's been 
discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that). So I'm 
looking for whatever the current modern version is. 


I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis, etc). But 
the reviews are all littered with failures. Unfortunately it's hard to tell how 
much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is broken software. 


I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern equivalents? 
Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es, and can dump the 
image onto NAS. 


-- 





Forrest Christian CEO , PacketFlux Technologies, Inc. 

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I really should add something like this,  but I'm also worried about
filesystem corruption.  In fact,  I think I've had more software failures
than hardware ones over the years on this type of device.

On Dec 21, 2017 11:59 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> Probably not what you want but I have been installing a $35 raid card in
> my win 10 or Linux machines. No drivers required and you can mirror the
> boot drive. Works really well. I have been using just 128 or so gig for the
> boot and then install a cheap 1TB for regular backups.
>
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 11:11 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> this is what i used to use for hdd duplication, was the best of all of
>> them at the time for my needs
>> https://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/discwizard/
>>
>> if youre running windows and move to windows 10 its pretty easy to swap
>> the drive to new hardware (licensing issues excluded)
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 10:57 PM, George Skorup > > wrote:
>>
>>> Can you run VMs for the stuff you need to control/do? Run VMs on those
>>> stations and replicate the storage to somewhere else? Then they're always
>>> backed up.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/21/2017 10:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>>
>>> So, clonezilla seems to be 'reboot into this tool and take an image'.
>>>  Is this correct?
>>>
>>> I'm definitely not opposed to this idea, probably actually better than
>>> the 'make an image from the running windows box' option.I can then use
>>> a standard backup tool for the day to day (file) backup operations.
>>>
>>> Mainly what I'm worried about backing up is all of the nightmarish
>>> driver installation and configuration which goes along with using a PC to
>>> control hardware.   And then on an ongoing basis 'operational programs',
>>> but those are more traditional files which a normal backup would grab.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> +1 on Clonezilla.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Brian Webster" 
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Sent: 12/21/2017 11:18:30 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>>>>
>>>> I have used Clonezilla with good success. They have a live CD version
>>>> you can burn the image, Linux based and free.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank You,
>>>>
>>>> Brian Webster
>>>>
>>>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>>>
>>>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest
>>>> Christian (List Account)
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:07 PM
>>>> *To:* af
>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I
>>>> don't lose data.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to
>>>> rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a
>>>> machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.
>>>>  These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off
>>>> the shelf hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take
>>>> a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on
>>>> similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage
>>>> medium) and it just work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's
>>>> been discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So
>>>> I'm looking for whatever the current modern version is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis,
>>>> etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately
>>>> it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is
>>>> broken software.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern
>>>> equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es,
>>>> and can dump the image onto NAS.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>>>>
>>>> Tel: 406-449-3345 <%28406%29%20449-3345> | Address: 3577 Countryside
>>>> Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>
>>>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
>>>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>  <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
>>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>  <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Unfortunately these have to run on bare metal, due to the number of drivers
involved, which leads to driver dependency hell, which is pretty much why I
care about this backup.

On Dec 21, 2017 9:57 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

> Can you run VMs for the stuff you need to control/do? Run VMs on those
> stations and replicate the storage to somewhere else? Then they're always
> backed up.
>
> On 12/21/2017 10:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> So, clonezilla seems to be 'reboot into this tool and take an image'.   Is
> this correct?
>
> I'm definitely not opposed to this idea, probably actually better than the
> 'make an image from the running windows box' option.I can then use a
> standard backup tool for the day to day (file) backup operations.
>
> Mainly what I'm worried about backing up is all of the nightmarish driver
> installation and configuration which goes along with using a PC to control
> hardware.   And then on an ongoing basis 'operational programs', but those
> are more traditional files which a normal backup would grab.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> +1 on Clonezilla.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Brian Webster" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 12/21/2017 11:18:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>>
>> I have used Clonezilla with good success. They have a live CD version you
>> can burn the image, Linux based and free.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest
>> Christian (List Account)
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:07 PM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>>
>>
>>
>> Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I
>> don't lose data.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to
>> rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a
>> machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.
>>  These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off
>> the shelf hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take
>> a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on
>> similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage
>> medium) and it just work.
>>
>>
>>
>> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been
>> discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm
>> looking for whatever the current modern version is.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis,
>> etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately
>> it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is
>> broken software.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern
>> equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es,
>> and can dump the image onto NAS.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>>
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 <%28406%29%20449-3345> | Address: 3577 Countryside
>> Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>>
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>  <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>  <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
>   <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Lewis Bergman]

Probably not what you want but I have been installing a $35 raid card in my
win 10 or Linux machines. No drivers required and you can mirror the boot
drive. Works really well. I have been using just 128 or so gig for the boot
and then install a cheap 1TB for regular backups.

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 11:11 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> this is what i used to use for hdd duplication, was the best of all of
> them at the time for my needs
> https://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/discwizard/
>
> if youre running windows and move to windows 10 its pretty easy to swap
> the drive to new hardware (licensing issues excluded)
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 10:57 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
>> Can you run VMs for the stuff you need to control/do? Run VMs on those
>> stations and replicate the storage to somewhere else? Then they're always
>> backed up.
>>
>>
>> On 12/21/2017 10:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>> So, clonezilla seems to be 'reboot into this tool and take an image'.
>>  Is this correct?
>>
>> I'm definitely not opposed to this idea, probably actually better than
>> the 'make an image from the running windows box' option.I can then use
>> a standard backup tool for the day to day (file) backup operations.
>>
>> Mainly what I'm worried about backing up is all of the nightmarish driver
>> installation and configuration which goes along with using a PC to control
>> hardware.   And then on an ongoing basis 'operational programs', but those
>> are more traditional files which a normal backup would grab.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 on Clonezilla.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Brian Webster" 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 12/21/2017 11:18:30 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>>>
>>> I have used Clonezilla with good success. They have a live CD version
>>> you can burn the image, Linux based and free.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank You,
>>>
>>> Brian Webster
>>>
>>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>>
>>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest
>>> Christian (List Account)
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:07 PM
>>> *To:* af
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I
>>> don't lose data.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to
>>> rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a
>>> machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.
>>>  These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off
>>> the shelf hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take
>>> a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on
>>> similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage
>>> medium) and it just work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been
>>> discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm
>>> looking for whatever the current modern version is.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis,
>>> etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately
>>> it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is
>>> broken software.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern
>>> equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es,
>>> and can dump the image onto NAS.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>>>
>>> Tel: 406-449-3345 <%28406%29%20449-3345> | Address: 3577 Countryside
>>> Road, Helena, MT 59602
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>
>>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>>>
>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
>>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>  <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>  <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Steve Jones]

this is what i used to use for hdd duplication, was the best of all of them
at the time for my needs
https://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/discwizard/

if youre running windows and move to windows 10 its pretty easy to swap the
drive to new hardware (licensing issues excluded)


On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 10:57 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> Can you run VMs for the stuff you need to control/do? Run VMs on those
> stations and replicate the storage to somewhere else? Then they're always
> backed up.
>
>
> On 12/21/2017 10:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> So, clonezilla seems to be 'reboot into this tool and take an image'.   Is
> this correct?
>
> I'm definitely not opposed to this idea, probably actually better than the
> 'make an image from the running windows box' option.I can then use a
> standard backup tool for the day to day (file) backup operations.
>
> Mainly what I'm worried about backing up is all of the nightmarish driver
> installation and configuration which goes along with using a PC to control
> hardware.   And then on an ongoing basis 'operational programs', but those
> are more traditional files which a normal backup would grab.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> +1 on Clonezilla.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Brian Webster" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 12/21/2017 11:18:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>>
>> I have used Clonezilla with good success. They have a live CD version you
>> can burn the image, Linux based and free.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest
>> Christian (List Account)
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:07 PM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>>
>>
>>
>> Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I
>> don't lose data.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to
>> rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a
>> machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.
>>  These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off
>> the shelf hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take
>> a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on
>> similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage
>> medium) and it just work.
>>
>>
>>
>> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been
>> discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm
>> looking for whatever the current modern version is.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis,
>> etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately
>> it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is
>> broken software.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern
>> equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es,
>> and can dump the image onto NAS.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>>
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 <%28406%29%20449-3345> | Address: 3577 Countryside
>> Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>>
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>  <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>  <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
>   <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[George Skorup]

Can you run VMs for the stuff you need to control/do? Run VMs on those 
stations and replicate the storage to somewhere else? Then they're 
always backed up.


On 12/21/2017 10:29 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
So, clonezilla seems to be 'reboot into this tool and take an image'.  
 Is this correct?


I'm definitely not opposed to this idea, probably actually better than 
the 'make an image from the running windows box' option.    I can then 
use a standard backup tool for the day to day (file) backup operations.


Mainly what I'm worried about backing up is all of the nightmarish 
driver installation and configuration which goes along with using a PC 
to control hardware.   And then on an ongoing basis 'operational 
programs', but those are more traditional files which a normal backup 
would grab.





On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:


+1 on Clonezilla.


-- Original Message --
From: "Brian Webster" mailto:i...@wirelessmapping.com>>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    Sent: 12/21/2017 11:18:30 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore


I have used Clonezilla with good success. They have a live CD
version you can burn the image, Linux based and free.

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>

www.Broadband-Mapping.com <http://www.Broadband-Mapping.com>

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
    (List Account)
*Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:07 PM
*To:* af
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make
sure I don't lose data.

I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to
have to rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally
computers which run a machine, such as the automatic test system
and the pick and place machine.   These machines area all
typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off the shelf
hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take
a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it
back on similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe
different storage medium) and it just work.

It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.  But
that's been discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill
before that).  So I'm looking for whatever the current modern
version is.

I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium,
Acronis, etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.
 Unfortunately it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue
and how much of this is broken software.

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern
equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of
Windows OS'es, and can dump the image onto NAS.

-- 


*Forrest Christian*/CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./

Tel: 406-449-3345  | Address: 3577
Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

<https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>

forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com> |
http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/>

<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
<http://facebook.com/packetflux> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>





--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com> | 
http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/>
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian> 
<http://facebook.com/packetflux> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

So, clonezilla seems to be 'reboot into this tool and take an image'.   Is
this correct?

I'm definitely not opposed to this idea, probably actually better than the
'make an image from the running windows box' option.I can then use a
standard backup tool for the day to day (file) backup operations.

Mainly what I'm worried about backing up is all of the nightmarish driver
installation and configuration which goes along with using a PC to control
hardware.   And then on an ongoing basis 'operational programs', but those
are more traditional files which a normal backup would grab.




On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> +1 on Clonezilla.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Brian Webster" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 12/21/2017 11:18:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>
> I have used Clonezilla with good success. They have a live CD version you
> can burn the image, Linux based and free.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account)
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:07 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore
>
>
>
> Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I
> don't lose data.
>
>
>
> I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to
> rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a
> machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.
>  These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off
> the shelf hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take
> a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on
> similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage
> medium) and it just work.
>
>
>
> It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been
> discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm
> looking for whatever the current modern version is.
>
>
>
> I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis,
> etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately
> it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is
> broken software.
>
>
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern
> equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es,
> and can dump the image onto NAS.
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>
> Tel: 406-449-3345 <(406)%20449-3345> | Address: 3577 Countryside Road,
> Helena, MT 59602
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3577+Countryside+Road,+Helena,+MT+59602&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>  <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
>   <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>
>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>  <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux>

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Adam Moffett]

+1 on Clonezilla.


-- Original Message --
From: "Brian Webster" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/21/2017 11:18:30 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

I have used Clonezilla with good success. They have a live CD version 
you can burn the image, Linux based and free.




Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian 
(List Account)

Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:07 PM
To: af
Subject: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore



Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I 
don't lose data.




I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to 
rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which 
run a machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place 
machine.   These machines area all typically single-drive 
(non-mirrored) mostly off the shelf hardware running various versions 
of windows.   I'd like to take a full image, and have at least a 
reasonable chance of putting it back on similar hardware (probably same 
motherboard, maybe different storage medium) and it just work.




It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's 
been discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that). 
 So I'm looking for whatever the current modern version is.




I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis, 
etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately 
it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this 
is broken software.




I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern 
equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows 
OS'es, and can dump the image onto NAS.




--

Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com 
<http://www.packetflux.com/>


<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>  
<http://facebook.com/packetflux>  <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>

Re: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Brian Webster]

I have used Clonezilla with good success. They have a live CD version you can 
burn the image, Linux based and free.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 11:07 PM
To: af
Subject: [AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

 

Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I don't 
lose data.

 

I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to rebuild 
due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a machine, 
such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.   These 
machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off the shelf 
hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take a full image, 
and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on similar hardware 
(probably same motherboard, maybe different storage medium) and it just work.  

 

It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been 
discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm 
looking for whatever the current modern version is.

 

I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis, etc).   
But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately it's hard to 
tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is broken software.

 

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern equivalents?  
Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es, and can dump the 
image onto NAS.

 

-- 


Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

 <mailto:forre...@imach.com> forre...@imach.com |  <http://www.packetflux.com/> 
http://www.packetflux.com

 <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>   <http://facebook.com/packetflux>   
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux> 

  <http://ws-stats.appspot.com/t/pixel.png?e=setup_page_outlook_compose>   
<http://ws-stats.appspot.com/t/pixel.png?e=setup_page_outlook_active&uid=e965778f9a351fad7a8a860dffc144ce>
   
<http://ws-stats.appspot.com/t/pixel.png?e=setup_page_outlook_active&uid=e965778f9a351fad7a8a860dffc144ce>
 

[AFMUG] Computer Image backup/restore

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Normally backups around here are file-based, I.E. I want to make sure I
don't lose data.

I have a couple of computers now which I really would hate to have to
rebuild due to hardware failure.  These are generally computers which run a
machine, such as the automatic test system and the pick and place machine.
 These machines area all typically single-drive (non-mirrored) mostly off
the shelf hardware running various versions of windows.   I'd like to take
a full image, and have at least a reasonable chance of putting it back on
similar hardware (probably same motherboard, maybe different storage
medium) and it just work.

It used to be that the tool for this was Norton Ghost.   But that's been
discontinued (and I understand it was going downhill before that).  So I'm
looking for whatever the current modern version is.

I know there's a few tools out there which do this (Macrium, Acronis,
etc).   But the reviews are all littered with failures.   Unfortunately
it's hard to tell how much of this is lack of clue and how much of this is
broken software.

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using these modern
equivalents?  Preferably something which runs on a range of Windows OS'es,
and can dump the image onto NAS.

-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com