[AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
So you're saying this is more marketing than innovation? -Ty On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Chuck McCown via Af af@afmug.com wrote: Angle is pretty much solely dependent upon gain. So a typical horn is about as good as the best patch array or a smaller parabolic reflector. But they are worse than both in the mechanical sense. The higher the frequency the more practical horns become. *From:* Stefan Englhardt via Af af@afmug.com *Sent:* Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:51 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
For anyone curious the rundown is on their site already. It looks slick as hell but that doesn't mean much. http://simper.rfelements.com/ -Ty On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Ty Featherling via Af af@afmug.com wrote: So you're saying this is more marketing than innovation? -Ty On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Chuck McCown via Af af@afmug.com wrote: Angle is pretty much solely dependent upon gain. So a typical horn is about as good as the best patch array or a smaller parabolic reflector. But they are worse than both in the mechanical sense. The higher the frequency the more practical horns become. *From:* Stefan Englhardt via Af af@afmug.com *Sent:* Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:51 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
On 10/15/14, 7:06 AM, Ty Featherling via Af wrote: So you're saying this is more marketing than innovation? When I hear horn antenna I think ATT Long Lines sites. ~Seth
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
Which product are we talking about? The one that looks like a dish has a patch array inside the cover. From: Ty Featherling via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement So you're saying this is more marketing than innovation? -Ty On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Chuck McCown via Af af@afmug.com wrote: Angle is pretty much solely dependent upon gain. So a typical horn is about as good as the best patch array or a smaller parabolic reflector. But they are worse than both in the mechanical sense. The higher the frequency the more practical horns become. From: Stefan Englhardt via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:51 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
Nice point Gino A. Villarini President Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. www.aeronetpr.com @aeronetpr On 10/15/14, 11:03 AM, Stefan Englhardt via Af af@afmug.com wrote: The 30 Degree has 18dBi. They use the -6db at the edge calculation. They are quite small so it may be possible to replace a loaded 90 degree sector with 3 of them. - GENIAS INTERNET -- www.genias.net -- Stefan Englhardt Email: s...@genias.net Dr. Gesslerstr. 20 D-93051 Regensburg Tel: +49 941 942798-0Fax: +49 941 942798-9 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Chuck McCown via Af Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Oktober 2014 16:16 An: af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement Now I see. Scalar ring feedhorns. Same thing I use to illuminate my dual pol reflectors. Nothing wrong with them but they only have about 10-12 dBi gain. -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:14 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement On 10/15/14, 7:06 AM, Ty Featherling via Af wrote: So you're saying this is more marketing than innovation? When I hear horn antenna I think ATT Long Lines sites. ~Seth
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
The pattern is not like a normal sector it opens wider at elevation. Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Gino Villarini via Af Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Oktober 2014 16:28 An: af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement I thinkt he innovative thing here is the waveguide adapter between the radios ant the horns/dishes, 90deg sector has 10db gain.. Way too low I think Gino A. Villarini President Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com @aeronetpr From: af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com Reply-To: af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 at 10:18 AM To: af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement The simper Sectors http://simper.rfelements.com/ Not clear if the dish is a horn/reflector combination? - GENIAS INTERNET -- http://www.genias.net www.genias.net-- Stefan Englhardt Email: mailto:s...@genias.net s...@genias.net Dr. Gesslerstr. 20 D-93051 Regensburg Tel: +49 941 942798-0Fax: +49 941 942798-9 Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Chuck McCown via Af Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Oktober 2014 16:15 An: af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement Which product are we talking about? The one that looks like a dish has a patch array inside the cover. From:Ty Featherling via Af mailto:af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:06 AM To:af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement So you're saying this is more marketing than innovation? -Ty On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Chuck McCown via Af af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com wrote: Angle is pretty much solely dependent upon gain. So a typical horn is about as good as the best patch array or a smaller parabolic reflector. But they are worse than both in the mechanical sense. The higher the frequency the more practical horns become. From:Stefan Englhardt via Af mailto:af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:51 AM To:af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
I would argue that higher gain is more important if you are using DFS frequencies... I can definitely see situations where these would make sense though, but I think the ones in the 30-60 degree range are probably more interesting than the 90. From: Af [af-boun...@afmug.com] on behalf of Rory Conaway via Af [af@afmug.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 10:21 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement I think the key thing here is the f/b ratio and the pattern. 10dB is fine if you are using DFS frequencies anyway. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:08 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement The pattern is not like a normal sector it opens wider at elevation. Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Gino Villarini via Af Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Oktober 2014 16:28 An: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement I thinkt he innovative thing here is the waveguide adapter between the radios ant the horns/dishes, 90deg sector has 10db gain.. Way too low I think Gino A. Villarini President Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. www.aeronetpr.comhttp://www.aeronetpr.com @aeronetpr From: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Reply-To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 at 10:18 AM To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement The simper Sectors http://simper.rfelements.com/ Not clear if the dish is a horn/reflector combination? - GENIAS INTERNET -- www.genias.nethttp://www.genias.net-- Stefan Englhardt Email: s...@genias.netmailto:s...@genias.net Dr. Gesslerstr. 20 D-93051 Regensburg Tel: +49 941 942798-0Fax: +49 941 942798-9 Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Chuck McCown via Af Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Oktober 2014 16:15 An: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement Which product are we talking about? The one that looks like a dish has a patch array inside the cover. From:Ty Featherling via Afmailto:af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:06 AM To:af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement So you're saying this is more marketing than innovation? -Ty On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Chuck McCown via Af af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com wrote: Angle is pretty much solely dependent upon gain. So a typical horn is about as good as the best patch array or a smaller parabolic reflector. But they are worse than both in the mechanical sense. The higher the frequency the more practical horns become. From:Stefan Englhardt via Afmailto:af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:51 AM To:af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
Depends on the application. If you are in an urban area and your customers are within a mile, there will be little difference. With the dropoff, f/b, and no lobes, I'd take this over a standard dual-polarity sector. And since I install in residential areas with aesthetic issues, no shield kits. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:24 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement I would argue that higher gain is more important if you are using DFS frequencies... I can definitely see situations where these would make sense though, but I think the ones in the 30-60 degree range are probably more interesting than the 90. From: Af [af-boun...@afmug.com] on behalf of Rory Conaway via Af [af@afmug.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 10:21 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement I think the key thing here is the f/b ratio and the pattern. 10dB is fine if you are using DFS frequencies anyway. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:08 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement The pattern is not like a normal sector it opens wider at elevation. Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Gino Villarini via Af Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Oktober 2014 16:28 An: af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement I thinkt he innovative thing here is the waveguide adapter between the radios ant the horns/dishes, 90deg sector has 10db gain.. Way too low I think Gino A. Villarini President Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. www.aeronetpr.com @aeronetpr From: af@afmug.com af@afmug.com Reply-To: af@afmug.com af@afmug.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 at 10:18 AM To: af@afmug.com af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement The simper Sectors http://simper.rfelements.com/ Not clear if the dish is a horn/reflector combination? - GENIAS INTERNET -- www.genias.net http://www.genias.net -- Stefan Englhardt Email: s...@genias.net mailto:s...@genias.net Dr. Gesslerstr. 20 D-93051 Regensburg Tel: +49 941 942798-0Fax: +49 941 942798-9 Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Chuck McCown via Af Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Oktober 2014 16:15 An: af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement Which product are we talking about? The one that looks like a dish has a patch array inside the cover. From:Ty Featherling via Af mailto:af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:06 AM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement So you're saying this is more marketing than innovation? -Ty On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Chuck McCown via Af af@afmug.com wrote: Angle is pretty much solely dependent upon gain. So a typical horn is about as good as the best patch array or a smaller parabolic reflector. But they are worse than both in the mechanical sense. The higher the frequency the more practical horns become. From:Stefan Englhardt via Af mailto:af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:51 AM To:af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
True, in that case, higher gain really isn't necessary, so that would be a good application for these. But in 5.8ghz, you can somewhat compensate for the lower gain with higher Tx power at the CPE... that isn't an option with DFS, which is my reasoning for higher gain being more important there. From: Af [af-boun...@afmug.com] on behalf of Rory Conaway via Af [af@afmug.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 10:27 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement Depends on the application. If you are in an urban area and your customers are within a mile, there will be little difference. With the dropoff, f/b, and no lobes, I’d take this over a standard dual-polarity sector. And since I install in residential areas with aesthetic issues, no shield kits. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:24 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement I would argue that higher gain is more important if you are using DFS frequencies... I can definitely see situations where these would make sense though, but I think the ones in the 30-60 degree range are probably more interesting than the 90. From: Af [af-boun...@afmug.com] on behalf of Rory Conaway via Af [af@afmug.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 10:21 AM To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement I think the key thing here is the f/b ratio and the pattern. 10dB is fine if you are using DFS frequencies anyway. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:08 AM To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement The pattern is not like a normal sector it opens wider at elevation. Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Gino Villarini via Af Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Oktober 2014 16:28 An: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement I thinkt he innovative thing here is the waveguide adapter between the radios ant the horns/dishes, 90deg sector has 10db gain.. Way too low I think Gino A. Villarini President Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. www.aeronetpr.comhttp://www.aeronetpr.com @aeronetpr From: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Reply-To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 at 10:18 AM To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement The simper Sectors http://simper.rfelements.com/ Not clear if the dish is a horn/reflector combination? - GENIAS INTERNET -- www.genias.nethttp://www.genias.net-- Stefan Englhardt Email: s...@genias.netmailto:s...@genias.net Dr. Gesslerstr. 20 D-93051 Regensburg Tel: +49 941 942798-0Fax: +49 941 942798-9 Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Chuck McCown via Af Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Oktober 2014 16:15 An: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement Which product are we talking about? The one that looks like a dish has a patch array inside the cover. From:Ty Featherling via Afmailto:af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:06 AM To:af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement So you're saying this is more marketing than innovation? -Ty On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Chuck McCown via Af af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com wrote: Angle is pretty much solely dependent upon gain. So a typical horn is about as good as the best patch array or a smaller parabolic reflector. But they are worse than both in the mechanical sense. The higher the frequency the more practical horns become. From:Stefan Englhardt via Afmailto:af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:51 AM To:af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
Yep, if you want to truly follow the regulatory restrictions on EIRP at both ends, receive gain at the AP is likely to be the limiting factor. Ideally the antenna gain should be the same at both AP and CPE when you are not allowed to use transmit antenna gain at the CPE end to increase EIRP. I guess it depends on whether you are willing to use a larger antenna or reflector dish at the CPE. Some WISPs will only use a bare CPE with internal antenna for aesthetic issues, we dish most everything. From: Mathew Howard via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 10:36 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement True, in that case, higher gain really isn't necessary, so that would be a good application for these. But in 5.8ghz, you can somewhat compensate for the lower gain with higher Tx power at the CPE... that isn't an option with DFS, which is my reasoning for higher gain being more important there. From: Af [af-boun...@afmug.com] on behalf of Rory Conaway via Af [af@afmug.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 10:27 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement Depends on the application. If you are in an urban area and your customers are within a mile, there will be little difference. With the dropoff, f/b, and no lobes, I’d take this over a standard dual-polarity sector. And since I install in residential areas with aesthetic issues, no shield kits. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:24 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement I would argue that higher gain is more important if you are using DFS frequencies... I can definitely see situations where these would make sense though, but I think the ones in the 30-60 degree range are probably more interesting than the 90. From: Af [af-boun...@afmug.com] on behalf of Rory Conaway via Af [af@afmug.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 10:21 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement I think the key thing here is the f/b ratio and the pattern. 10dB is fine if you are using DFS frequencies anyway. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:08 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement The pattern is not like a normal sector it opens wider at elevation. Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Gino Villarini via Af Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Oktober 2014 16:28 An: af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement I thinkt he innovative thing here is the waveguide adapter between the radios ant the horns/dishes, 90deg sector has 10db gain.. Way too low I think Gino A. Villarini President Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. www.aeronetpr.com @aeronetpr From: af@afmug.com af@afmug.com Reply-To: af@afmug.com af@afmug.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 at 10:18 AM To: af@afmug.com af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement The simper Sectors http://simper.rfelements.com/ Not clear if the dish is a horn/reflector combination? - GENIAS INTERNET -- www.genias.net-- Stefan Englhardt Email: s...@genias.net Dr. Gesslerstr. 20 D-93051 Regensburg Tel: +49 941 942798-0Fax: +49 941 942798-9 Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Chuck McCown via Af Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Oktober 2014 16:15 An: af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement Which product are we talking about? The one that looks like a dish has a patch array inside the cover. From:Ty Featherling via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:06 AM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement So you're saying this is more marketing than innovation? -Ty On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Chuck McCown via Af af@afmug.com wrote: Angle is pretty much solely dependent upon gain. So a typical horn is about as good as the best patch array or a smaller parabolic reflector. But they are worse than both in the mechanical sense. The higher the frequency the more practical horns become. From:Stefan Englhardt via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:51 AM To:af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
Torque converter antenna? On 10/15/2014 9:11 AM, Ty Featherling via Af wrote: For anyone curious the rundown is on their site already. It looks slick as hell but that doesn't mean much. http://simper.rfelements.com/ -Ty On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Ty Featherling via Af af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com wrote: So you're saying this is more marketing than innovation? -Ty On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Chuck McCown via Af af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com wrote: Angle is pretty much solely dependent upon gain. So a typical horn is about as good as the best patch array or a smaller parabolic reflector. But they are worse than both in the mechanical sense. The higher the frequency the more practical horns become. *From:* Stefan Englhardt via Af mailto:af@afmug.com *Sent:* Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:51 AM *To:* af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
It's all Mikrotik hardware\software under it as well. What do you mean the coverage isn't as good? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Stefan Englhardt via Af af@afmug.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 2:51:35 AM Subject: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
I do love their waveguide-type connector. I also love their waveguide adapter for existing dual SMA type radios (Rockets, etc.). No coax to deal with. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Stefan Englhardt via Af af@afmug.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 2:51:35 AM Subject: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
I look at it more for dense deployments where you have subs right up to the tower. Something that goes maybe 2 or 3 miles out at most. They have 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 and 90 degree antennas. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini via Af af@afmug.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 9:28:17 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement I thinkt he innovative thing here is the waveguide adapter between the radios ant the horns/dishes, 90deg sector has 10db gain.. Way too low I think Gino A. Villarini President Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. www.aeronetpr.com @aeronetpr From: af@afmug.com af@afmug.com Reply-To: af@afmug.com af@afmug.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 at 10:18 AM To: af@afmug.com af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement The simper Sectors http://simper.rfelements.com/ Not clear if the dish is a horn/reflector combination? - GENIAS INTERNET -- www.genias.net -- Stefan Englhardt Email: s...@genias.net Dr. Gesslerstr. 20 D-93051 Regensburg Tel: +49 941 942798-0 Fax: +49 941 942798-9 Von: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] Im Auftrag von Chuck McCown via Af Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. Oktober 2014 16:15 An: af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement Which product are we talking about? The one that looks like a dish has a patch array inside the cover. From: Ty Featherling via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:06 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement So you're saying this is more marketing than innovation? -Ty On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Chuck McCown via Af af@afmug.com wrote: Angle is pretty much solely dependent upon gain. So a typical horn is about as good as the best patch array or a smaller parabolic reflector. But they are worse than both in the mechanical sense. The higher the frequency the more practical horns become. From: Stefan Englhardt via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:51 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
It has a round pattern like a directional antenna. A Sector usualy has a smaller elevation and a broader azimuth. - GENIAS INTERNET -- http://www.genias.net www.genias.net -- Stefan Englhardt Email: mailto:s...@genias.net s...@genias.net Dr. Gesslerstr. 20 D-93051 Regensburg Tel: +49 941 942798-0Fax: +49 941 942798-9 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:21 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement It's all Mikrotik hardware\software under it as well. What do you mean the coverage isn't as good? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com _ From: Stefan Englhardt via Af af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com To: af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 2:51:35 AM Subject: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement
Right, they shouldn't be calling it a sector. It's not. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Stefan Englhardt via Af af@afmug.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:30:47 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement It has a round pattern like a directional antenna. A Sector usualy has a smaller elevation and a broader azimuth. - GENIAS INTERNET -- www.genias.net -- Stefan Englhardt Email: s...@genias.net Dr. Gesslerstr. 20 D-93051 Regensburg Tel: +49 941 942798-0 Fax: +49 941 942798-9 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett via Af Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:21 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement It's all Mikrotik hardware\software under it as well. What do you mean the coverage isn't as good? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Stefan Englhardt via Af af@afmug.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 2:51:35 AM Subject: [AFMUG] Rflelements announcement This is realy something I did not expect: They announce Systems with Horn antennas. A quite different approach. Their sectors are directional antennas so coverage is not as good as with traditional antennas (Their marketing argues the opposite). But horn antennas should have very low sidelobes, a good FB-Ratio and allow small angles. So it should be possible to make a more dense deployment. What make me scare is the big opening where water and ice may cause damage.
