Re: [agi] The Job market.

[WriterOfMinds]

On Thursday, October 03, 2019, at 2:11 PM, Steve Richfield wrote:
> WriterOfMinds,
> 
> It would be really interesting if you were to skip the usual hiring process, 
> and just pick and hire one of the people here on this forum.
> 
> I suspect any mismatched with applicant "requirements" would prove to be 
> inconsequential.
> 
> Steve
I don't have that kind of authority. The most I could do is show someone where 
to apply, and (if their contributions to the forum impress me) give a referral.

Anyone want to work in the Colorado aerospace industry? Relocation assistance 
is available. For security reasons, US citizenship is required, but a clearance 
is generally not needed. Skills we want include FPGA/ASIC design, DSP, embedded 
software, and RF systems, among others.
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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[immortal . discoveries]

LOL
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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[James Bowery]

OMG!!!  You've discovered modus ponens!!!

On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 2:11 PM Steve Richfield 
wrote:

> James,
>
> Formal logic:
>
> h = Hidden assumption
> A = Assertion
>
> If h -> A  and h-> not A, then h MUST be false
>
> Now, please show me peer reviewed evidence that AGI is either possible or
> desirable!!!
>
> Hey, I have published other similarly important stuff in peer reviewed
> journals, but if it isn't something that is in the normal path that others
> are following, then it just lays there, sometimes for years, sometimes
> forever. For example, MOST patents find this fate.
>
> Our "intellectual" "system" is REALLY FUBAR.
>
> I could make a movie or write a book having spectacular examples. For
> example, DeVinci carefully documented the process whereby sleeve bearings
> wear out - a problem that remained unsolved until I got a patent on how to
> keep this from happening. That was the beginning of an adventure leading
> nowhere, as major corporations including Black & Dekker, Briggs & Stratton,
> etc., each with working prototypes in hand, found profoundly stupid reasons
> not to incorporate it into their products.
>
> Steve Richfield
>
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 10:15 AM James Bowery  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 1:55 AM Steve Richfield 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> OK, so let's see if I can explain RRAA in a short posting here.
>>>
>> ...
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>
>> You seem to have ignored my question, that's my thought.
>>
>> You claim to have defined a "logic" ... specifically, "reverse reductio
>> ad absurdum logic" that you, apparently, have not subjected to anything
>> remotely resembling a scholarly peer-reviewed process, nor stated in the
>> language of formal logic.
>>
>> Is that correct?
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Steve Richfield
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019, 8:04 PM James Bowery  wrote:
>>>
 If you have a proof of how to resolve disputes, you have a proof of how
 to select the better of two models of the world induced from the same set
 of data.

 Have you published this earth-shaking discovery with clear implications
 for machine learning?  Or are you afraid if you publish, someone will
 implement it and turn us all into paperclips?


>
> --
> Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six
> hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back full
> employment.
>
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  + delivery
> options  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[immortal . discoveries]

I know Upwork can look intimidating to earn money...but trust me you gotta find 
how to get your first good review, repeat clients, and Big jobs (easy to get a 
5,000USD job I'm not lying). Just coding you are great, yet if you do Deep 
Learning or Audio signal processing or multiple languages you are even more 
able to find more bigger jobs.
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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[Steve Richfield]

WriterOfMinds,

It would be really interesting if you were to skip the usual hiring
process, and just pick and hire one of the people here on this forum.

I suspect any mismatched with applicant "requirements" would prove to be
inconsequential.

Steve
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019, 11:33 AM WriterOfMinds 
wrote:

> Sure, especially when you vent poorly. Blaming society/other people for
> all of your problems? Not a good look. Putting down "outsider" groups who
> are also just trying to make a decent life for themselves? Not a good look.
> This thread has given me an impression of Alan as an unpleasant, entitled
> person whom I might not want to work with. I suspect that those among my
> co-workers who are naturalized citizens would like him even less.
> That's why I have not yet mentioned the name of my employer and the fact
> that we need engineers badly.
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  + delivery
> options  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [agi] Re: Physical temporal pattern loops

[Stefan Reich via AGI]

We all want to drink

On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 21:22,  wrote:

> Who doesn't want this
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  + delivery
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> 
>


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Re: [agi] Re: Physical temporal pattern loops

[immortal . discoveries]

Who doesn't want this
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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[immortal . discoveries]

I don't believe any humans will stop the exponential trend, as soon as AGI 
appears stronger another one will pop up in another country.
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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[immortal . discoveries]

Hidden assumptions.people raising an AGI with stupid government? I'm still 
gonna help build AGI anyway... Why what do you want to do about congress taking 
in on it? I hate Congress.
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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[Steve Richfield]

James,

Formal logic:

h = Hidden assumption
A = Assertion

If h -> A  and h-> not A, then h MUST be false

Now, please show me peer reviewed evidence that AGI is either possible or
desirable!!!

Hey, I have published other similarly important stuff in peer reviewed
journals, but if it isn't something that is in the normal path that others
are following, then it just lays there, sometimes for years, sometimes
forever. For example, MOST patents find this fate.

Our "intellectual" "system" is REALLY FUBAR.

I could make a movie or write a book having spectacular examples. For
example, DeVinci carefully documented the process whereby sleeve bearings
wear out - a problem that remained unsolved until I got a patent on how to
keep this from happening. That was the beginning of an adventure leading
nowhere, as major corporations including Black & Dekker, Briggs & Stratton,
etc., each with working prototypes in hand, found profoundly stupid reasons
not to incorporate it into their products.

Steve Richfield

On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 10:15 AM James Bowery  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 1:55 AM Steve Richfield 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, so let's see if I can explain RRAA in a short posting here.
>>
> ...
>> Thoughts?
>>
>
> You seem to have ignored my question, that's my thought.
>
> You claim to have defined a "logic" ... specifically, "reverse reductio ad
> absurdum logic" that you, apparently, have not subjected to anything
> remotely resembling a scholarly peer-reviewed process, nor stated in the
> language of formal logic.
>
> Is that correct?
>
>
>
>>
>> Steve Richfield
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019, 8:04 PM James Bowery  wrote:
>>
>>> If you have a proof of how to resolve disputes, you have a proof of how
>>> to select the better of two models of the world induced from the same set
>>> of data.
>>>
>>> Have you published this earth-shaking discovery with clear implications
>>> for machine learning?  Or are you afraid if you publish, someone will
>>> implement it and turn us all into paperclips?
>>>
>>> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  + delivery
> options  Permalink
> 
>


-- 
Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six
hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back full
employment.

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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[Aurelien RAINONE]

WritersOfMind

Thank you!

- Aurélien

On Thu, 3 Oct 2019, 20:33 WriterOfMinds, 
wrote:

> Sure, especially when you vent poorly. Blaming society/other people for
> all of your problems? Not a good look. Putting down "outsider" groups who
> are also just trying to make a decent life for themselves? Not a good look.
> This thread has given me an impression of Alan as an unpleasant, entitled
> person whom I might not want to work with. I suspect that those among my
> co-workers who are naturalized citizens would like him even less.
> That's why I have not yet mentioned the name of my employer and the fact
> that we need engineers badly.
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  + delivery
> options  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [agi] Re: Physical temporal pattern loops

[Stefan Reich via AGI]

Uh... huh?

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 02:33,  wrote:

>  Boss want me to come over, to his and wife's place, tomorrow to drink
> cool fuel!!!
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
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> 
>


-- 
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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[Stefan Reich via AGI]

So venting about constantly being rejected is _yet another reason_ for
being rejected?

On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 at 05:45, Matt Mahoney  wrote:

> I was going to suggest he post his resume here. Not that anyone will hire
> him now after seeing this tirade, but he might get some good advice.
>
> On Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 11:30 AM WriterOfMinds 
> wrote:
>
>> In the coming months, the world will pay quite dearly for fucking over
>> my life.
>>
>> THEY WILL PAY, ALL OF THEM!!!
>>
>>
>> That sounds like mass shooter talk. I get that you're in a rough spot,
>> but promising revenge on "the world" (which happens to be full of innocent
>> people) is never acceptable. Cut it out. No one deliberately ruined your
>> life.
>>
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
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> 
>


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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[Stefan Reich via AGI]

The job market truly sucks. It's not only in America.

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 at 09:16, Alan Grimes via AGI 
wrote:

> I live in the DC area.
> 
> That means just about every major employer in the area requires some
> level of a Top Secret Security clearance due to government contracts.
> These are only ever offered to the brightest college seniors from the
> local colleges. It takes about a year to actually secure one of these,
> and can only be sponsored. Anyone older than a college senior is not
> worth the investment.
> 
> (I'm 41, soon 42).
> 
> The job boards that cover my area are dominated by fossilized job
> postings, these have been up for many months at a time. Apparently some
> corporations do this just for internal budgetary reasons and have no
> intention of hiring anyone, if it isn't actually just a zombie listing.
> 
> There is probably a pool of several thousand unemployed programmers and
> IT people in the area. One job I applied for for simple IT work had over
> 440 applicants. Jobs that I believe to be legitimate are often filled in
> less than 18 hours of being posted.
> 
> One suburb of the DC area, Bethesda Maryland, was noted for having a
> population of 7,700 indians on H1-B visas, ofcourse these are displacing
> any American with the chutzpah to think he could get a job in a hot
> field in his own country...
> 
> I keep an eye on posts regarding visas and Trump's efforts to cut back
> on the visa programs. One poster described the life of a person who
> thought getting a computer science degree would set him up for life.
> Well, the degree renders one "overqualified" for all other positions and
> therefore unemployable.
> 
> There are laws against age discrimination but they can't really be
> enforced.
> 
> I don't think I made any really bad mistakes in my life but nevertheless
> I'm a doomed individual. The liberals have been so papered throughout
> their life that they seem to think that all one needs to get on the boat
> in this society is the will to climb over the rail. That is false, a
> total lie.
> 
> In the coming months, the world will pay quite dearly for fucking over
> my life.
> 
> THEY WILL PAY, ALL OF THEM!!!
> 
> I'm overtired right now, the heat of summer has not yet broken and I'm
> not getting good sleeps. Still 80 degrees in here with the AC on at 3
> AM... (my main computer contining an 8 month number theory computation
> is not helping)
> 
> Anyway, I'll post about AI again when I'm in a better mood.
> 
> --
> Clowns feed off of funny money;
> Funny money comes from the FED
> so NO FED -> NO CLOWNS!!!
> 
> Powers are not rights.
> 


-- 
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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[James Bowery]

On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 1:55 AM Steve Richfield 
wrote:

>
> OK, so let's see if I can explain RRAA in a short posting here.
>
...
> Thoughts?
>

You seem to have ignored my question, that's my thought.

You claim to have defined a "logic" ... specifically, "reverse reductio ad
absurdum logic" that you, apparently, have not subjected to anything
remotely resembling a scholarly peer-reviewed process, nor stated in the
language of formal logic.

Is that correct?



>
> Steve Richfield
>
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019, 8:04 PM James Bowery  wrote:
>
>> If you have a proof of how to resolve disputes, you have a proof of how
>> to select the better of two models of the world induced from the same set
>> of data.
>>
>> Have you published this earth-shaking discovery with clear implications
>> for machine learning?  Or are you afraid if you publish, someone will
>> implement it and turn us all into paperclips?
>>
>> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  + delivery
> options  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[immortal . discoveries]

If you can't say it, then I'll have to wait for the release date.
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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[Steve Richfield]

Immortal,

Oops - you missed it. All the AGI in the world can't do much of anything
unless it's prospective recipients are educated about RRAA and ??? yet to
be discovered.

With that education, there won't be much left for an AGI to do.

This making another point of mine. Most of the people here are religious
nuts - lacking the skills to understand their problem space in their quest
for their AGI God.

The problems vexing society aren't that difficult once the problem space
has been understood. Without that human understanding, AGIs can never
function with much utility. You wouldn't even be able to understand their
answer, let alone ever understand how to build a machine that synthesized
it.

What I am doing here is just basic systems analysis. Fools here seem to
think it is OK to skip SA. I think SA has proven here that nothing useful
can ever come of the present quest for AGI.

Steve

On Thu, Oct 3, 2019, 5:47 AM  wrote:

> Wrong link. Just Search Google for "Upwork". It is for both programmers
> and buyers. See post above for detail. You are far away from being out a
> job indeed. And, the pay is so high its cheating.
>
>
> Groundbreaking discoveries? Where!? I love those! Tell me them all in one
> place!
>
> So the one above you mean to say you have 2 people that believe the same
> false answer is correct, and you drag them into local optima with a false
> problem and supply an answer that solves it but it is not the best way to
> solve the issue? But this doesn't work if someone knows the optimal
> solution or uses a fine tooth comb with enough time on their hands. Nor is
> it more powerful than AGI, I mean, sure you can trick anyone but not a fast
> thinking highly weaponized omega hive that has all power to use tons of
> time and knowledge as they desire.
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
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> 
>

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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[immortal . discoveries]

Wrong link. Just Search Google for "Upwork". It is for both programmers and 
buyers. See post above for detail. You are far away from being out a job 
indeed. And, the pay is so high its cheating.


Groundbreaking discoveries? Where!? I love those! Tell me them all in one place!

So the one above you mean to say you have 2 people that believe the same false 
answer is correct, and you drag them into local optima with a false problem and 
supply an answer that solves it but it is not the best way to solve the issue? 
But this doesn't work if someone knows the optimal solution or uses a fine 
tooth comb with enough time on their hands. Nor is it more powerful than AGI, I 
mean, sure you can trick anyone but not a fast thinking highly weaponized omega 
hive that has all power to use tons of time and knowledge as they desire.
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Re: [agi] The Job market.

[Steve Richfield]

James,

You appear to be a bit new here, having missed several earthshaking
discoveries - as the world just yawns.

OK, so let's see if I can explain RRAA in a short posting here.

If two logical people reach an impasse after understanding each other's
arguments, then one or both MUST base their valid logic on an invalid
assumption - but how could this possibly happen with someone else CAREFULLY
examining the logic? Simple - they BOTH share the SAME invalid
assumption(s), so the problem is invisible to them both.

Now you (or the ultimate AGI) listens to their craziness and points out the
invalid assumption. Right? WRONG!!! The ONE thing they CAN agree on is that
YOU (or the ultimate AGI) are wrong, and the dispute continues in the face
of perfect logic!!!

So, what is the success path? Simple - you must NOT show the solution to
the parties until AFTER you have taught them how RRAA works - and that they
absolutely MUST share at least one invalid assumption to be having their
dispute, so, if they don't like your candidate for an invalid assumption,
then they should either do better, or accept your candidate.

Take the abortion debate, whose best invalid assumption candidate is the
government lottery where women are randomly selected and presented with
newborn babies - and are prohibited from selling, trading, or otherwise
finding other women who actually want the newborn baby. Of course, the
random selection here is based on the failure of birth control.

Allowing these women to sell or trade their babies solves this, because
babies are worth a LOT of money. Who would be crazy enough to just throw
away $20-50k by getting an abortion? Everyone would win, including the
babies, who would then have mother's who actually WANT them.

This same approach works on (nearly?) all disputes that aren't based on
might making right, but it takes a really fresh look at things to see the
invalid assumptions.

So there it is - the basis of nearly all human strife, wars, etc., laid
bare with accompanying solution.

Unfortunately, though arguably worth more than an AGI because it lets you
and I do things that transcend even what is currently expected from a
successful AGI, it has no wealthy sponsors, so here it lays on this forum,
soon to be forgotten - yet again. Meanwhile, the wars continue...

Thoughts?

Steve Richfield

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019, 8:04 PM James Bowery  wrote:

> If you have a proof of how to resolve disputes, you have a proof of how to
> select the better of two models of the world induced from the same set of
> data.
>
> Have you published this earth-shaking discovery with clear implications
> for machine learning?  Or are you afraid if you publish, someone will
> implement it and turn us all into paperclips?
>
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  + delivery
> options  Permalink
> 
>

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