Re[2]: [agi] How to represent things problem

2007-12-07 Thread Dennis Gorelik
Richard,

 the instance nodes are such an
 important mechanism that everything depends on the details of how they
 are handled.

Correct.


 So, to consider one or two of the details that you mention.  You would
 like there to be only a one-way connection between the generic node (do
 you call this the pattern node?)

1) All nodes are equal.

2) Nodes can point to each other.
Yes, connection should be one way.
(E.g.: You know George Bush, but he doesn't know you :-))

Two-way connection can be easily implemented by two separate
connections.


 For instance, we are able to see a field of patterns, of
 different colors, and then when someone says the phrase the green 
 patterns we find that the set of green patterns jumps out at us from
 the scene.  It is as if we did indeed have links from the generic 
 concept [green pattern] to all the instances.

Yes, that's good way to store links:
All relevant nodes are connected.


 Another question: what do we do in a situation where we see a field of
 grass, and think about the concept [grass blade]?

Field or grass concept and grass blade concept are obviously
directly connected.
This link was formed, because we saw Field of grass and Grass
blade together many times.


 Are there individual instances for each grass blade?

If you remember individual instances -- then yes.

 Are all of these linked to the generic concept of [grass blade]?

Some grass blades may be directly connected to field of grass.
Other may be connected only through other grass blade instances.
It would depend on if it's useful for brain to keep these direct
associations.


 What is different is that I see many, many possible ways to get these
 new-node creation mechanisms to work (and ditto for other mechanisms
 like the instance nodes, etc.) and I feel it is extremely problematic to
 focus on just one mechanism and say that THIS is the one I will 
 implement because  I think it feels like a good idea.


 The reason I think this is a problem is that these mechanisms have 
 system-wide consequences (i.e. they give rise to global behaviors) that
 are not necessarily obvious from the definition of the mechanism, so we
 need to build a simulation to find out what those mechanisms *really* do
 when they are put together and allowed to interact.

I agree -- testing is important.
In fact, it's extremely important.

Not only we need to test several models [of creating  updating nodes
and links), but within single model we should try several settings
values (such as if node1 and node2 were activated together -- how
much should we increase the strength of the link between them).


That's why it's important to carefully design tests.
Such tests should work reasonably fast and be able to indicate how
good did system work.

What is good and what is not good -- has to be carefully defined.
Not trivial, but quite doable task.


 I can show you a paper of mine in which I describe my framework in a
 little more detail.

Isn't this pager public yet?



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Re[2]: [agi] How to represent things problem

2007-12-06 Thread Dennis Gorelik
Richard,

 It's Neural Network -- set of nodes (concepts), when every node can be
 connected with the set of other nodes. Every connection has it's own
 weight.
 
 Some nodes are connected with external devices.
 For example, one node can be connected with one word in text
 dictionary (that is an external device).

 you need special extra mechanisms to handle the difference between
 generic nodes and instance nodes (in a basic neural net there is no
 distinction between these two, so the system cannot represent even the most 
 basic of situations),

1) Are you talking about problems of basic neural net or problems of
Neural Net that I described?

2) Human brain is more complex than basic neural net and probably
works similar to what I described.

3) Extra mechanisms would add additional features to instance nodes.
(I prefer to call such nodes peripheral or surface.)
Surface nodes have the same abilities as regular nodes, but they are
also heavily affected by special device.

4) Are you saying that developing special device is a problem?


 and you need extra mechanisms to handle the dynamic creation/assignment of
 new nodes, because new things are being experienced all the time.

That's correct. Such mechanism that creates new nodes is required.
Is that a problem?


 These extra mechanisms are so important that is arguable that the
 behavior of the system is dominated by *them*, not by the mere fact that
 the design started out as a neural net.

It doesn't matter what part of system dominates. If we able to solve How to 
represent
things problem by such architecture -- it's good enough, right?


 Having said that, I believe in neural nets as a good conceptual starting
 point.


Are you saying that what I described is not exactly a Neural Net?
How would you call it then?
Blend Neural Net?


 It is just that you need to figure out all that machinery - and no one
 has, so there is a representation problem in my previous list of problems.

We can talk about machinery in all details.
I agree, that the system would be complex, but it would have
manageable complexity.



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