BUS: [Thesis] On Playing and Winning Agora in October 2022
I hereby submit the following Thesis in its entirety for peer-review:
{
On Playing and Winning Agora in October 2022
It seems like we're already moving away from a coins-based economy.
When I joined there were three uses for money: stamps, stones, and
birds, despite there being many ways to gain money. Then birds were
repealed and now it looks like stones are going to be modified to not
require coins, which only leaves stamps.
It seems like there are two major ways to win right now. One of them
is the main way to win, which is points. The other way is "without
objection," whether the objection is direct (in the case of apathy,
emergency messages, etc.), via a game action (in the case of stones),
or via inaction (in the case of stamps), in other words, you win if
other players let you win.
I think that the large amount of without objection rules is fine, as
this makes it more likely for one of these ways to be forgotten,
resulting in a victory, whereas having few objection rules makes it
easy for players to block other players from winning via one of these
methods.
My opinion is that we should have all of our minigames allow you to
win in both of these ways. For instance, the horse race should let
you win if you control all of the horses, the zen garden should have
a points stone, and you should gain points by giving other players
stamps. Minigames should also allow you to assist other minigames,
which mostly is what's happening now, via things like horse powers,
dreams, stone powers, etc.
Contracts are another use for coins, or for helping other players,
but they cannot be used to gain points, as proven by CFJ 3995. There
was a recent proposal attempting to modify this, and it was rejected
due to opposition by me and Jason. I think if whatever issue Jason
had with that proposal is fixed, then we can fix this issue with
contracts.
The device minigame is unique in that it is basically a corrupted
version of Agora itself. You still cannot get points but this is
mainly because so little of the rules actually specify points, so it
is very unlikely that a rule added to the device list will involve
points. Once points get involved more heavily this will probably
change.
The zen garden minigame and dreams minigame are currently a mess
because when birds were repealed they weren't thoroughly repealed.
Honestly at this point, while I said above that we should have many
ways to win without objection, I think that the minigames should be
unique, and at the moment, the zen garden and dreams minigames are
basically the same game. These minigames have been neglected and are
in dire need of repairs. The stones proposal is not enough. We need
some form of distinction between these two games.
Also, there still isn't much going on at the moment. There's a weekly
horse action, the ever-present proposals thanks to rule 1698, the
weekly reports which don't list much, and sometimes people try to win
via scams or without objection, and these attempts usually fail.
Adding life to the current minigames will probably help spice things
up, though, so I'm reserving judgment on if we should add more
minigames until after our current minigames get fixed.
One of the games that isn't an issue is the Ribbons game. This game
is mostly a game of milestones. As you play Agora, you will start to
get ribbons. Once you have "completed" Agora, you get to hang up all
your ribbons and score a victory. I like that you have to win Agora
to hang a banner; I think this is a nice trait that makes this game
unique and truly shows how Nomic games work. My main issue is that
this game doesn't track many of the other minigames, but I understand
that there are already a lot of ribbons. I think there should be more
ribbons for doing things like wielding a stone, having your mindset
flipped, or having more than 20 dollaries.
As for Karma, Agora is all about interactions between players, and
Karma shows when the community thinks players have been doing the
right or wrong thing. I still think you should be rewarded for having
high Karma, both in points for gaining Karma and with victory for
having a lot of Karma.
Proposals are the most thought out of these, because they have been
part of the game since its inception 30 years ago, and have never
been repealed thanks to rule 1698, which was first enacted 25 years
ago. You can always win if a proposal passes saying you do, and you
gain points for proposals passing. I think at the moment the only
issue I have with this is that the proposal classes mean nothing. You
should probably be given more points for democratic proposals passing.
I am reserving judgment on tournaments and festivals as none have
happened since I joined the game. Once one of these happens, that's
when we'll see if changes are necessary.
I think that mostly sums up how Agora is being played as of October
2022. I took a good look at most of how the minigames are played,
according
BUS: Re: OFF: [Mad Engineer] Experiment 00057 - Intent to Invent
On 10/23/22 18:13, Jason Cobb via agora-official wrote:
> MAD ENGINEER'S WEEKLY REPORT
>
> The Device is off.
>
>
> EXPERIMENT 00057 INTENT TO INVENT
>
> I intend, with Agoran consent, to cause Rule 2655 to amend the Rule "The
> Device" by appending the following a a list item to the "When the device
> is off:" list:
>
> {
>
>The device can be made using any physical or computational process
>whose probability distribution among the possible outcomes is
>reasonably close to that required by the Rules, and for which the
>final device is not trivially predictable by the selecting person
>in advance.
>
> }
>
I support.
--
nix
Herald
BUS: It's not paranoia if they're really after you
For each intent to Declare Apathy, in the order the intents were made, I object to that intent. -- Jason Cobb Assessor, Mad Engineer, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
BUS: clean missing verb
I intend, without objection, to clean rule 2675 (Dream of Wandering) as follows: * In the third paragraph, replace _it not Flipped_ with _it is not Flipped_.
BUS: [Referee] Cleanup
I intend, with 2 Agoran consent, to amend Regulation RA2 by replacing
the following text:
{
1. A section tracking investigations resulting from a finger being
pointed of which the Referee is the investigator, which have not
been concluded at the time of the report’s publishing; e SHOULD
provide the following fields for each entry:
a. Name of the perp
b. Name of the person who pointed eir finger
d. Summary of the available findings at the time of the report
The Referee is strongly DISCOURAGED from reporting on
investigations of which e is not the investigator. At the time of
the promulgation of this regulation, the only rule-defined
circumstance in which the Referee is not the investigator is when
the Referee is the perp. As such, eir reports on such
investigations may be misleading and are at a high likelihood of
violating rule 2471.
2. A section tracking historical changes to the blots possessed by
persons. If available, the time period tracked is RECOMMENDED to
begin from approximately two years prior and end at the time of
the report’s publishing. E SHOULD provide the following columns
for this section:
a. Name of person in whose possession the number of blots has
changed
b. Change in number of blots
c. Date of change
d. Reason of change
}
with this text:
{
1. A section tracking historical changes to the blots possessed by
persons. If available, the time period tracked is RECOMMENDED to
begin from approximately two years prior and end at the time of
the report’s publishing. E SHOULD provide the following columns
for this section:
a. Name of person in whose possession the number of blots has
changed
b. Change in number of blots
c. Date of change
d. Reason of change
}
--
ziproot
Referee
BUS: [proposal] Make sure you're using Spivak pronouns
I submit the following proposal:
Title: Pronoun Correction
Author: ziproot
Coauthors:
Adoption index: 1.0
{
Amend Rule 2672 by replacing "Each player CAN take one of the following
actions (weekly race actions) if they have not already taken one this
week" with "Each player CAN take one of the following actions (weekly
race actions) if e has not already taken one this week"
}
BUS: [proposal] This really should be nerfed
I submit the following proposal:
Title: Exiting REM
Author: Jason
Coauthors:
Adoption index: 2.0
{
Amend Rule 2675 by replacing with "Eir Voting Strength is 2 greater."
with "Eir voting strength is increased by 2 for referenda on ordinary
proposals."
}
--
Jason Cobb
Assessor, Mad Engineer, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: BUS: (@Dreamor) I want power!
On 10/23/22 20:54, secretsnail9 via agora-business wrote: > I plan to flip my mindset to the Dream of Power. > -- > snail As do I. -- Jason Cobb Assessor, Mad Engineer, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: BUS: Race action (@Horsened)
On Sun, 23 Oct 2022 20:46:44 -0400 "Jason Cobb via agora-business - agora-business@agoranomic.org" wrote: > On 10/23/22 20:32, ais523 via agora-business wrote: > > On Mon, 2022-10-17 at 04:26 +0100, ais523 via agora-business wrote: > > > >> I also gain 4 dollaries. > > Again, I gain 4 dollaries. > > > > As do I. > I also gain 4 dollaries.
BUS: (@Dreamor) I want power!
I plan to flip my mindset to the Dream of Power. -- snail
Re: BUS: Race action (@Horsened)
On 10/23/22 20:32, ais523 via agora-business wrote: > On Mon, 2022-10-17 at 04:26 +0100, ais523 via agora-business wrote: >> I also gain 4 dollaries. > Again, I gain 4 dollaries. > As do I. -- Jason Cobb Assessor, Mad Engineer, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: BUS: Race action (@Horsened)
On Mon, 2022-10-17 at 04:26 +0100, ais523 via agora-business wrote: > I also gain 4 dollaries. Again, I gain 4 dollaries. -- ais523
Re: BUS: Cleaning up [attn. Notary]
On 10/17/22 16:36, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > I intend, without 2 objections, to shred the contract entitled > "Cuddlebeam's Locker". > Seeing no objections, I do so. -- Jason Cobb Assessor, Mad Engineer, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8861 and 8862
I vote: On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 12:14 PM secretsnail9 via agora-official wrote: > ID Author(s) AITitle > --- > 8861* nix 3.0 Finally Removing Arbitrary Limits FOR. > 8862~ nix 2.0 Slippery Stones AGAINST, though willing to change my vote if a proposal fixing the stones themselves were introduced in the next few days (I'd make this a conditional ballot but it would be too subjective probably). -G.
BUS: (@Horsened) [Motivation] The horses gallop!
I motivate the horses: The galloper is Nacho and the random number choice is 1. (Nacho will move 1, and Baxter and Cannon will move 1.) I transfer Alexia to myself by paying a fee of 10 dollaries. (Weekly Race Action) Via Alexia's power, I use Fargo's weekly power to get a helmet for and bet 2 dollaries on Fargo by paying a fee of 1 hoof. (Alexia's bonus weekly race action.) I increase Cannon's race position by 1. (Cannon's power.) -- snail
BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8861 and 8862
I vote as follows (and have updated the spreadsheet): 8861* nix 3.0 Finally Removing Arbitrary Limits FOR 8862~ nix 2.0 Slippery Stones FOR (bugs can be fixed in the next cycle)
BUS: Fwd: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 4000 Assigned to Murphy
TTttPF Forwarded Message Subject: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 4000 Assigned to Murphy Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2022 13:31:51 -0700 From: Edward Murphy To: agora-discuss...@agoranomic.org G. wrote: [A nice historical question for the occasion!] The below CFJ is CFJ FOUR THOUSAND (4000). I assign it to Murphy. status: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/#4000 === CFJ 4000 === It is round 2,098. == Caller:nix Judge: Murphy == History: Called by nix:20 Oct 2022 17:20:44 Assigned to Murphy: [now] == Caller's Arguments: Rounds are defined in R1023 alongside pivots: A pivot is either the instant at which Agora Nomic began (June 30, 1993, 00:04:30 GMT +1200) or an instant at which at least one person won the game. When used as a period of time, a "Round" (historical syn: "game") is the period of time between a pivot and the next pivot. FOR: By my calculations, there have been 2,097 wins. If each win is a pivot that starts a new round, then this is round 2,098. AGAINST: However, rounds are defined as "the period of time between a pivot and the next pivot". Many wins have happened in the same message (notably Jason won 1000 times in one message). Messages are considered to happen instantaneously but sequentially. Arguably, there is no "period of time" between these wins, and no rounds occurred between them. If this is the case, then we are closer to round 599. == As the caller notes, there can be multiple events occurring at the same instant. The pivot is defined as the instant, not the individual events. The most recent Herald's report lists (by my count) 1714 distinct wins, including Jason x1000 (which I believe were indeed simultaneous) and D. Margaux x501 (likewise). Whatever the exact number of rounds currently is, it clearly isn't nearly as high as 2098. I judge FALSE.
BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8861 and 8862
On 10/23/22 15:14, secretsnail9 via agora-official wrote: > 8861* nix 3.0 Finally Removing Arbitrary Limits FOR > 8862~ nix 2.0 Slippery Stones PRESENT -- Jason Cobb Assessor, Mad Engineer, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
BUS: Re: OFF: [Collector] Stamp Report (Collector's Weekly 23 Oct 2022)
On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 1:02 PM nix via agora-official <
agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> I deputize for Collector to publish the following report:
>
> {
>
> 23 Oct 2022
>
> --
> Stamp Holdings
> --
>
> Agora:
> - 19 ais523 stamps
> - 25 Aspen stamps
> - 6 Jason stamps
> - 2 Madrid stamps
> - 1 snail stamp
>
CoE: These are owned by the L&FD, not Agora.
>
> snail:
> - 1 ais523 stamp
> - 25 Aspen stamps
> - 5 Madrid stamps
> - 1 Murphy stamp
> - 2 nix stamps
> - 1 juan stamp
>
> Shy Owl:
> - 1 Shy Owl stamp
>
CoE: I should have 4 Madrid stamps instead of 5, and also 1 shy owl stamp.
Shy Owl should have 1 Madrid stamp:
https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg43473.html
Gaelan:
- 100 Gaelan stamps
4st:
- 500 4st stamps
> 2022-08-21: Gaelan granted 100 Gaelan stamps by Gaelan (Buy).
> 2022-08-21: 4st granted 500 4st stamps by 4st (Buy).
>
CoE: The 100 Gaelan stamps and 500 4st stamps should not exist:
https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-official@agoranomic.org/msg12558.html
--
snail
BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8861 and 8862
On Sun, 23 Oct 2022 14:14:13 -0500 "secretsnail9 via agora-official - agora-offic...@agoranomic.org" wrote: > --- > 8861* nix 3.0 Finally Removing Arbitrary > Limits I vote PRESENT. > 8862~ nix 2.0 Slippery Stones I vote AGAINST (birds are no longer in the game and should not be referenced if we're updating stones, and the power stone has been confirmed via CFJs 3396 and 3997 to be useless).
BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8861 and 8862
On 10/23/22 14:14, secretsnail9 via agora-official wrote: > ID Author(s) AITitle > --- > 8861* nix 3.0 Finally Removing Arbitrary Limits FOR > 8862~ nix 2.0 Slippery Stones FOR, though I'll note there's also some discussion of entirely replacing stones with some other gameplay in the discord. -- nix Herald, Collector
BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8861 and 8862
I vote as follows (and have updated the spreadsheet): On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 2:15 PM secretsnail9 via agora-official < agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lnB_-p63_AOuJclTWvvtz9HEhznxOSScjGZ9SKja2Dw/edit?usp=sharing > > 8861* nix 3.0 Finally Removing Arbitrary Limits > FOR > 8862~ nix 2.0 Slippery Stones > FOR -- snail
