BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8494-8495
TTttPF On 8/29/20 12:37 AM, shelvacu via agora-discussion wrote: > I vote FOR both proposals > > On 8/29/20 12:14 AM, Aris Merchant via agora-official wrote: >> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating a referendum on it, >> and removing it from the proposal pool. For this decision, the vote collector >> is the Assessor, the quorum is 3, the voting method is AI-majority, and the >> valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are >> conditional votes). >> >> ID Author(s)AITitle >> --- >> 8494l^ Gaelan 1.0 nope >> 8495*^ Gaelan 3.0 nopenopenope >> >> >> Legend: * : Democratic proposal. >> # : Ordinary proposal, unset chamber. >> e : Economy ministry proposal. >> f : Efficiency ministry proposal. >> j : Justice ministry proposal. >> l : Legislation ministry proposal. >> p : Participation ministry proposal. >> ^ : Sponsored proposal. >> >> The full text of the aforementioned proposal(s) is included below. Where >> the information shown below differs from the information shown above, >> the information shown above shall control. >> >> // >> ID: 8494 >> Title: nope >> Adoption index: 1.0 >> Author: Gaelan >> Co-authors: >> >> >> Repeal rule 2633. >> >> // >> ID: 8495 >> Title: nopenopenope >> Adoption index: 3.0 >> Author: Gaelan >> Co-authors: >> >> >> Repeal rule 2633. >> >> //
Re: OFF: Re: BUS: Re: (proposal)
I vote AGAINST On 8/28/20 12:28 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-official wrote: > On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 11:10 AM nix via agora-business < > agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> On 8/28/20 11:17 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-business wrote: >>> I submit the following proposal, "Minor Adjustments", AI-3: >>> --- >>> >>> Increase the power of Rule 2633 (Rulebending) to 3. >>> >>> --- >> I issue the cabinet order Manifesto, distributing the above proposal. (I >> don't think I can assign it an ID, the Promotor has to I believe). The >> valid votes are FOR, AGAINST, PRESENT, as well as conditional votes. The >> assessor is the vote collector on this decision. > > This is Proposal 8493.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: on today's episode of ATMunn's bad ideas
Agreed, I support all such intents.
On 8/24/20 4:00 PM, Nathan S via agora-discussion wrote:
> On 8/24/2020 2:14 PM, ATMunn via agora-business wrote:
>> I perform the action denoted by curly brackets once for each filled
>> office, where X is that office and Y is the player who holds that
>> office:
>>
>> {
>>
>> I intend, with 2 Agoran consent, to impeach Y from the office of X.
>>
>> }
>>
> This is a terrible idea. I support all such intents.
>
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract: Let's snag D. Margaux
I consent to this amended contract.
On 8/19/20 10:35 PM, Gaelan Steele via agora-business wrote:
>
>> On Aug 19, 2020, at 10:35 PM, Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion
>> wrote:
>>
>> Darn, good catch.
>>
>> I intend, with the consent of all parties, to amend the contract to the
>> following.
>>
>> TLDR: Anyone can transfer the coins from the contract to me. I SHALL make
>> sure that happens before the end of the auction. I SHAN'T use the coins
>> unless the contract says so. If we don't win, y'all can claim the refund
>> from my balance if necessary.
>>
>> {
>> Any player may become a party to this contract. Any player other than Gaelan
>> may cease to be a party to this contract.
>>
>> Any party may transfer coins to this contract. A person's contribution is
>> the total number of coins they have transferred to this contract. A person's
>> share is eir contribution, divided by the total number of coins transferred
>> to this contract.
>>
>> Whenever this contract has more coins than the current highest bid on the
>> August 2020 zombie auction, Gaelan SHALL within 24 hours, and any party may
>> act on Gaelan's behalf to, place a bid of the number of coins held by this
>> contract. For the avoidance of doubt, another player acting on Gaelan's
>> behalf to perform this actions satisfies Gaelan's obligation to do so.
>>
>> Any party may transfer coins from this contract to Gaelan. Gaelan SHALL
>> destroy, pay, or transfer those coins only as required or permitted by this
>> contract. Gaelan SHALL ensure that all coins are transferred from this
>> contract to emself before the end of the August 2020 zombie auction.
>>
>> When the August 2020 zombie auction ends, if Gaelan is an awardee of a lot,
>> e SHALL within a timely fashion, and any party may act on eir behalf to,
>> perform the following process:
>> - pay a fee of that many coins to transfer the corresponding talisman to
>> emself
>> - act on behalf of the zombie corresponding to said talisman to transfer all
>> of the zombie's coins to Gaelan
>> - transfer to each party a number of coins equal to the number transferred
>> from the zombie, multiplied by eir share, rounded down (instead of
>> transferring assets to emself, Gaelan may do nothing)
>>
>> After the August 2020 zombie auction ends, if Gaelan is not the awardee of a
>> lot, any party MAY once transfer coins totaling a number equal to eir
>> contribution from Gaelan (acting on eir behalf to do so) and/or this
>> contract to emself.
>>
>> Gaelan may destroy this contract by announcement if it holds no assets and e
>> has fulfilled all of eir obligations under this contract.
>> }
>>
>> Gaelan
> Ttttpf
>
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Birthday
nttpf On 8/19/20 8:57 PM, shelvacu via agora-discussion wrote: > Happy birthday! I grant you 3 coins > > Disclaimer: I'm not 100% sure this works, the agoran day may have > already passed. > > On 8/19/20 1:20 PM, Nathan S via agora-business wrote: >> Hello! >> I would like to announce my 0th Agoran Birthday! Included below is a >> slice of ASCII cake for you to enjoy! >> >> >> ( >> >> (&) >> # >> _ .--"#"`--._ >> * .` # `. ~ * >> : # : >> ~ :. .: * >> * | `-.__ __.-' | * >> | `"""` | * >> * | |_||\ | )| )\ / | >> | | ||-\| | | | ~ >> ~ * | | * >> | | )|| )-|-|_|| \|\ \ / | * >> * _.-| | )|| \ | | || /|-\ | |-._ >> .' '. .' `. * >> : `-.__ To: Nathan __.-' : >> `. `"""` .' >> `-.._ _..-' >> `---` >> Cake Art: JGS
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract: Let's snag D. Margaux
I become a party to this contract and transfer 22 coins to it.
On 8/19/20 12:38 PM, Gaelan Steele via agora-business wrote:
> ...
> TTttPF
>
> Additionally, I consent to, and do, amend this contract by replacing
> "balance" with "contribution" [which isn't defined differently by the
> rules], resulting in the text:
> {
> Name: Team Margaux
> Parties: Gaelan
>
> Any player may become a party to this contract. Any player other than
> Gaelan may cease to be a party to this contract.
>
> Any party may transfer coins to this contract. A person's contribution
> is the total number of coins they have transferred to this contract. A
> person's share is eir contribution, divided by the total number of
> coins transferred to this contract.
>
> Whenever this contract has more coins than the current highest bid on
> the August 2020 zombie auction, Gaelan SHALL within 24 hours, and any
> party may act on Gaelan's behalf to, place a bid of the number of
> coins held by this contract. For the avoidance of doubt, another
> player acting on Gaelan's behalf to perform this actions satisfies
> Gaelan's obligation to do so.
>
> When the August 2020 zombie auction ends, if Gaelan is an awardee of a
> lot, e SHALL within a timely fashion, and any party may act on eir
> behalf to perform the following process:
> - transfer all coins held by this contract to emself (which e MAY do
> only as part of this process)
> - pay a fee of that many coins to transfer the corresponding talisman
> to emself
> - act on behalf of the zombie corresponding to said talisman to
> transfer all of the zombie's coins to Gaelan
> - transfer to each party a number of coins equal to the number
> transferred from the zombie, multiplied by eir share, rounded down
> (instead of transferring assets to emself, Gaelan may do nothing)
>
> After the August 2020 zombie auction ends, if Gaelan is not the
> awardee of a lot, any party may transfer a number of coins equal to
> eir contribution from this contract to emself.
>
> Gaelan may destroy this contract by announcement if it holds no assets
> and e has fulfilled all of eir obligations under this contract.
> }
> Gaelan
>
Re: BUS: [CfJ][Contract][@Treasuror] Somewhat Annoying Experiment
Argument for FALSE:
Rule 1742 says that
"The portion of a contract's provisions that can be interpreted with
reference only to information that is either publicly or generally
available are known as its body; the remainder of the provisions are
known as the annex."
and
"A party to a contract CAN perform any of the following actions as
explicitly and unambiguously permitted by the contract's *body*."
Because the integer x specified in the contract is information that is
not publicly or generally available, all portions that depend on it are
an "annex". Thus, revoking 5 coins was not effective because no part of
the contract's body allowed it.
While the contract states that "The Eligible Revocation can be
calculated as follows", that is simply not true. What is provided is a
way to /verify/ the Eligible Revocation. While theoretically 'x' could
be found via brute force has exactly one correct value, the process of
finding that integer would require resources that are certainly not
publicly or generally available.
Side note: I was going to add "... and does not exist on this earth" in
reference to what resources would be required, but I remembered that
bitcoin exists, and because of it so do large amounts of heavily
optimized ASICs that compute SHA256. I decided to do the calculation to
check. https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate shows the average
hashrate of the bitcoin network peaked at 126.941 petahashes/s (that's
right, /peta-/). At that rate (that is, if everyone in the world
currently running a bitcoin miner instead switched to finding Gaelan's
number), it would take */145 seconds! /*That's it!
On 8/13/20 8:15 PM, Gaelan Steele via agora-business wrote:
> I create and become a party the following contact, titled "Somewhat Annoying
> Experiment": {
> The Eligible Revocation can be calculated as follows:
> Let x be the lowest integer that, represented as a decimal number in ASCII,
> has the SHA256 hash
> 9b722e5d98390e12c7f29dc74d30a52f2c152a35fd47f9614e35f235e025b085.
> The Eligible Revocation is x % 10 (where % is the modulo operator).
>
> This contract accepts any transfers of assets.
>
> A party to this contract can, by announcement, revoke a number of coins in
> its possession exactly equal to the Eligible Revocation.
>
> Gaelan can, by announcement, transfer assets owned by this contract to emself.
> }
>
> I transfer 10 coins to the above contract.
>
> I revoke 5 coins in that contract's possession by announcement. [No Faking
> disclaimer: this may not work]
>
> CfJ: {Somewhat Annoying Experiment has exactly 5 coins.}
>
> Note: The SHA256 hash above is a random 64-bit value. While I believe there
> must exist a lowest number with that hash (there is an infinite number of
> integers, but a finite number of possible SHA256 hashes), I don't believe it
> can be determined other than by brute force. This follows from a discussion
> in the Discord about whether or not we have any limits on computational
> complexity of contracts.
>
> Gaelan
BUS: I am interested in becoming a judge.
I am interested in becoming a judge. (I vaguely remember something about announcements in subjects not counting, so I repeated in the body just in case)
Re: @Arbitor BUS: I wish to register
On 8/8/20 5:37 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:
> On 8/8/20 8:24 PM, shelvacu via agora-business wrote:
>> On 8/8/20 8:07 AM, Falsifian via agora-business wrote:
>>> On 2020-08-08 15:06, Falsifian via agora-business wrote:
>>>> On 2020-08-08 06:45, shelvacu via agora-business wrote:
>>>>> I wish to register to become a player. If my registration is
>>>>> successful,
>>>>> I cause myself to receive one Welcome Package and announce that it
>>>>> is my
>>>>> Agoran Birthday! How exciting.
>>>> Welcome!
>>>>
>>>> I hereby grant you 3 coins. (Only works if it's actually your birthday.)
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure about the birthday, though. R2585 says
>>>>
>>>> It is considered to be a player's Agoran Birthday on the
>>>> anniversary of the day e first registered.
>>>>
>>>> and after quickly checking a few definitions of anniversary, most of
>>>> them seem to say something about "previous year". E.g. Wikipedia: "An
>>>> anniversary is the date on which an event took place or an
>>>> institution was founded in a previous year, ...".
>>>>
>>>> I tried a birthday scam when I first registered too. I wasn't sure
>>>> about the 0-year anniversary, so I tried something different:
>>>>
>>>> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/04.html
>>> CFJ: It is Shelvacu's birthday.
>>>
>>> Argument for FALSE: see above ("I'm not sure about the birthday"
>>> through "previous year, ...").
>>>
>> Argument for TRUE:
>>
>> 1. The definition of "anniversary" does not consistently include
>> "previous year", for example https://www.yourdictionary.com/anniversary
>> says that an anniversary "... is a date on which something important
>> happens that is noted in some way each year thereafter". I plan on
>> noting my Agoran Birthday in some way each year thereafter and such is
>> encouraged by law, thus that day is an anniversary. Even Wikipedia's
>> definition might be interpreted as "An anniversary is the date on which
>> {an event took place} or {an institution was founded in a previous year}"
>
> I'll take Wikipedia's definition of "the date on which an event took
> place ... in a previous year". The event certainly took place today
> (August 8, 2020), but today is not in a previous year. Next year (and in
> all future years), however, August 8, 2020, would be in a previous year
> and thus count as an anniversary.
>
>
>> 2. Even if that Wikipedia definition or some similar definition is
>> accepted, it specifically says that an anniversary is *the date*, not a
>> sequence of recurring dates. Thus the "anniversary of the day e first
>> registered" must refer to (in this case) August 8th, and does *not*
>> refer to specifically August 8th, 2020 or any date inclusive of a year
>> thereafter. It only refers to August 8th. Thus, if I was to substitute
>> the specifics of this case into the statute, it would be: "It is
>> considered to be Shelvacu's Agoran Birthday on August 8th. ..."
>
> Not necessarily. I agree that there is an infinite set of dates that are
> anniversaries of today, but I don't agree that today is in that set.
I did not make that point. I say that, as used in the statute,
anniversary is a singular referring to a single date not inclusive of
any year.
> Wikipedia's phrasing is that it must have taken place "in a previous
> year". The set would include all future August 8s, since August 8, 2020,
> would be in a previous year at that time.
>
> Additionally, "anniversary" is not a term of art, so it must be taken to
> have its natural language meaning. I would argue that legally arguing
> about the precise phrasing of a definition given in certain sources goes
> against the spirit of the rule by effectively turning any natural
> language term into a term of art whose definition just so happens to be
> defined by a few external sources. This also goes against the spirit of
> what dictionaries are - dictionaries are inherently descriptive, rather
> than prescriptive, so while they can be used to guide the interpretation
> of a term, they should be subservient to collective understanding.
>
> "Anniversary", in its commonly understood meaning, does not include the
> date on which the celebrated event occurs, so that is the standard we
> should use.
"Anniversary" c
Re: @Arbitor BUS: I wish to register
On 8/8/20 8:07 AM, Falsifian via agora-business wrote:
> On 2020-08-08 15:06, Falsifian via agora-business wrote:
>> On 2020-08-08 06:45, shelvacu via agora-business wrote:
>>> I wish to register to become a player. If my registration is
>>> successful,
>>> I cause myself to receive one Welcome Package and announce that it
>>> is my
>>> Agoran Birthday! How exciting.
>>
>> Welcome!
>>
>> I hereby grant you 3 coins. (Only works if it's actually your birthday.)
>>
>> I'm not sure about the birthday, though. R2585 says
>>
>> It is considered to be a player's Agoran Birthday on the
>> anniversary of the day e first registered.
>>
>> and after quickly checking a few definitions of anniversary, most of
>> them seem to say something about "previous year". E.g. Wikipedia: "An
>> anniversary is the date on which an event took place or an
>> institution was founded in a previous year, ...".
>>
>> I tried a birthday scam when I first registered too. I wasn't sure
>> about the 0-year anniversary, so I tried something different:
>>
>> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/04.html
>
>
> CFJ: It is Shelvacu's birthday.
>
> Argument for FALSE: see above ("I'm not sure about the birthday"
> through "previous year, ...").
>
Argument for TRUE:
1. The definition of "anniversary" does not consistently include
"previous year", for example https://www.yourdictionary.com/anniversary
says that an anniversary "... is a date on which something important
happens that is noted in some way each year thereafter". I plan on
noting my Agoran Birthday in some way each year thereafter and such is
encouraged by law, thus that day is an anniversary. Even Wikipedia's
definition might be interpreted as "An anniversary is the date on which
{an event took place} or {an institution was founded in a previous year}"
2. Even if that Wikipedia definition or some similar definition is
accepted, it specifically says that an anniversary is *the date*, not a
sequence of recurring dates. Thus the "anniversary of the day e first
registered" must refer to (in this case) August 8th, and does *not*
refer to specifically August 8th, 2020 or any date inclusive of a year
thereafter. It only refers to August 8th. Thus, if I was to substitute
the specifics of this case into the statute, it would be: "It is
considered to be Shelvacu's Agoran Birthday on August 8th. ..."
3. If the interpretation in point 2 is not accepted, then players can
only have one birthday, as statute specifically refers to *THE*
anniversary, implying there is only one. This is obviously ridiculous,
and as such point 2 must be accepted.
BUS: I wish to register
I wish to register to become a player. If my registration is successful, I cause myself to receive one Welcome Package and announce that it is my Agoran Birthday! How exciting.
