Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on Unanimity

2007-01-13 Thread Taral

On 1/12/07, Ed Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

When X does not exist independently of the rules.


What if it says This Rule defines X. X is a Y.?

--
Taral [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can't prove anything.
   -- Gödel's Incompetence Theorem


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on Unanimity

2007-01-13 Thread Ed Murphy

Eris wrote:


On 1/12/07, Ed Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

When X does not exist independently of the rules.


What if it says This Rule defines X. X is a Y.?


If X exists independently of the rules, then this rule is either
lying, or using This Rule defines X as a gloss for This Rule
defines a property of X.  In either case, repealing the rule
does not cause X to cease to exist.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on Unanimity

2007-01-13 Thread Ed Murphy

Eris wrote:


On 1/13/07, Ed Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

If X exists independently of the rules, then this rule is either
lying, or using This Rule defines X as a gloss for This Rule
defines a property of X.  In either case, repealing the rule
does not cause X to cease to exist.


How exactly does a Rule lie?


By erecting a legal fiction for the duration of its effect.


If such a Rule were to be enacted and
then subsequently repealed, a Judge could quite reasonably conclude
that X no longer exists, since the Rules say so. And so on...


Possibly.  You could register and test it for real.


Re: DIS: a bigger bug -- no gamestate changes?

2007-01-13 Thread Ed Murphy

Goethe wrote:


proto-CFJ
Proposal 4882 (The Lady, or the Tiger?) can have no effect on
Goethe's registration status.

Arguments

R594/8, no longer in effect, contained the following text:

  For the purpose of the Rules, the application of an adopted
  Proposal is a legal procedure for changing Nomic Properties.

R594/9, enacted 20-June-2005, contained no such text (and R594 has
since been repealed).  It was replaced with the following in R1483
and later moved to R106:

   A proposal is a document outlining changes to be made to Agora,
   including enacting, repealing, or amending rules, or making
   other explicit changes to the gamestate.

However, this in itself does not, as the old text did, legally
authorize the adjustment of specific properties (regulated qantities).  
Additional legal authority is required for
Proposals to function.  For example, while this R106 text states a 
proposal's purpose is to enact rules, other rules are still required to 
explicitly enable the enaction.


R106 also states that a proposal takes effect when adopted.  This
can be reasonably interpreted - especially in the light of this
potential crisis - as allowing a proposal to do anything not explicitly
prohibited.  For example, if R105 did not exist, then proposals could
create, amend, and repeal rules without restriction; R105 explicitly
points out Agora's nomic-ness, and also prohibits proposals from doing
certain things, e.g. amending higher-Power rules.