Re: DIS: Proto: recognize holidays
RAINBOW! Not a colo(u)r but it should be special. I'm open to suggestions on an appropriate color. Mauve is my current choice. - Benjamin Schultz KE3OM OscarMeyr -- Peekee
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: The Republic of Agora
Ed Murphy wrote: >This gets into the attribute vs. possession debate. Well, yes. I'd like you to pick one or the other and be consistent about it. Much of your rule text speaks of gaining and losing S, so it appears that you intend them to be possessions. >It's a proposal award, it goes with the proposal award. It's a different colour, awarded for a different purpose from the red S. >All three primary colors are already in use. Subtractive primaries are up for grabs, and have standard abbreviating letters. >This is arguably a bug fix. Do you really intend a player who judges a >criminal case GUILTY to receive a second salary for sentencing? Yes. I wrote it that way partly in the hope that judges would be encouraged to take sentencing seriously as a distinct matter from the verdict. But I'm not particularly tied to the idea. Your proposed change to this is one that deserves to be voted on. >Planned districts are not objects, and can go negative Please explicate. Btw, I figured out that one of the issues I have with the Republic is the unwieldy terminology. "Number of planned districts" is a lot longer than "VVLOP". Perhaps that's why you keep dropping "number of" and thus mixing up items with counts? -zefram
DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ
Ed Murphy wrote: >This hinges on whether "is recused" in Rule 2126 (losing VCs) (c) >implicitly restricts its scope to non-reflexive recusals. I think it (well, actually your second CFJ) hinges on whether the "because" clause in R2126 means anything. -zefram
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: MMI fix
Levi Stephen wrote: >I seem to remember there was a proto or proposal trying to define >statements like these in more >detail, but I can't find it right now. "clarify Mother, May I?", proposal 5136, rejected with VI=1.25. You voted against it; it would have been adopted if you'd voted in favour instead. >This is starting to remind me of this paper: >http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/steele.pdf A brilliant paper. Quite persuasive in its point, I think. >Maybe R754(3) could (or is that COULD ;) ) be relied on in more cases. I don't think that can cover most logical connectives in its current state. That, and some potential variation in the natural-language meanings, was why Murphy argued for explicit definitions in my proposal. -zefram
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: MMI fix
Pavitra wrote: >[We really should canonize CAN NOT as a synonym of CANNOT, though.] I suggest not doing so. "can not" is a confusing turn of phrase, best avoided. Where "not" is a separate word in these phrases, there are two possible things it could be negating. Consider: x MUST NOT y = x MUST not(y) x SHALL NOT y = x SHALL not(y) (which are synonymous) but x MAY NOT y = not(x MAY y) For possibility, we have the clear x CANNOT y = not(x CAN y) so let's not have a synonym that looks like it might be the other type of negation. -zefram
DIS: proto: black cap
proto-proposal: black cap
AI: 2
{{{
Amend rule 2126 by replacing item "c)" in the list of ways that VCs
can be gained with
c) When a player assigns a judgement to a judicial question, and
has not violated a requirement to submit that judgement
within a time limit, e gains one VC. The VC gained is Black
if the judicial question is on sentencing, or Blue otherwise.
on veracity or culpability, e gains one Blue VC, unless e
[There's a colour that's more difficult to get.]
}}}
-zefram
DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: Republic repair
Ed Murphy wrote: >Proto-Proposal: Republic repair I'm opposed to this being a separate proposal from the Republic of Agora. Merge the fixes into the main proposal. -zefram
DIS: proto: reward deputisation
proto-proposal: reward for deputisation
AI: 2
{{{
Amend rule 2126 by appending to the list of ways that VCs can be gained:
d) When a player deputises for an office e gains one Cyan VC,
unless someone previously gained a VC in this manner for the
same office in the same month.
[Another rarer action to reward with a new colour.]
}}}
-zefram
DIS: proto: list VC behaviour by colour
proto-proposal: list VC behaviour by colour
AI: 2
{{{
Amend rule 2126 by replacing the text
VCs may be gained as follows:
a) When an interested proposal is adopted, its proposer gains a
number of Red VCs equal to the integer portion of the
proposal's adoption index, minus the number of Red VCs that e
has gained in this way earlier in the same week (down to a
minimum of zero), and each coauthor named in the proposal
gains one Red VC unless e gained a VC in this way earlier in
the same week.
b) At the end of each month, for each office with a report, the
player (if any) who held that office for the majority of that
month gains two Green VCs (if the office has a weekly report)
or one Green VC (if it has only a monthly report), unless
another person deputised for that office while that player
held that office during that month.
c) A player who assigns a judgement to a judicial question
within the time limit when first obliged to gains one Blue
VC.
VCs may be lost as follows:
a) When a proposal's voting index is less than half its adoption
index, its proposer loses one Red VC.
b) At the end of each month, for each office, for each player
who has held that office during that month, if another person
deputised for that office while that player held that office
during that month then that player loses one Green VC.
c) A player who is recused from a judicial case because a
judicial question has remained applicable, open, and unjudged
loses one Blue VC. A player who is the prior judge in an
appeal case where a judgement other than AFFIRM is assigned
to the question on disposition loses one Blue VC.
with
VCs are gained and lost as follows:
(+R) When an interested proposal is adopted, its proposer gains
a number of Red VCs equal to the integer portion of the
proposal's adoption index, minus the number of Red VCs that
e has gained in this way earlier in the same week (down to
a minimum of zero), and each coauthor named in the proposal
gains one Red VC unless e gained a VC in this way earlier
in the same week.
(-R) When a proposal's voting index is less than half its
adoption index, its proposer loses one Red VC.
(+G) At the end of each month, for each office with a report,
the player (if any) who held that office for the majority
of that month gains two Green VCs (if the office has a
weekly report) or one Green VC (if it has only a monthly
report), unless another person deputised for that office
while that player held that office during that month.
(-G) At the end of each month, for each office, for each player
who has held that office during that month, if another
person deputised for that office while that player held
that office during that month then that player loses one
Green VC.
(+B) A player who assigns a judgement to a judicial question
within the time limit when first obliged to gains one Blue
VC.
(-B) A player who is recused from a judicial case because a
judicial question has remained applicable, open, and
unjudged loses one Blue VC. A player who is the prior
judge in an appeal case where a judgement other than AFFIRM
is assigned to the question on disposition loses one Blue
VC.
[None of the text that actually awards or removes VCs is changed. The
differences are: (a) all in one list, putting rewards and
corresponding penalties next to each other; (b) meaningful item
labels, easier to maintain.]
[With the various protos that would edit the rule text that is relevant
here, this proto will need a bit of reformulation before it is actually
proposed.]
}}}
-zefram
Re: DIS: proto: list VC behaviour by colour
Here's a version that doesn't quote the text that it's not changing:
proto-proposal: list VC behaviour by colour
AI: 2
{{{
For the purposes of this proposal, in rule 2126 the list of ways that
VCs may be gained shall be referred to as "list A", and the list of
ways that VCs may be lost shall be referred to as "list B".
Amend rule 2126 by replacing the two consecutive top-level paragraphs
that contain list A and list B with a replacement paragraph that
consists of the introductory sentence "VCs are gained and lost as
follows:" followed by a list made up of these items in this order:
* label "(+R)", body of item "a)" from list A;
* label "(-R)", body of item "a)" from list B;
* label "(+G)", body of item "b)" from list A;
* label "(-G)", body of item "b)" from list B;
* label "(+B)", body of item "c)" from list A;
* label "(-B)", body of item "c)" from list B.
[Meaningful item labels, which are easier to refer to from memory and
are easier to maintain because there's no attempt at an alphabetical
sequence. Puts rewards and corresponding penalties next to each
other, for easier comprehension. List's introductory sentence made
less equivocal.]
}}}
-zefram
DIS: Re: BUS: proposal: fix switch definitions
On 8/17/07, Zefram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To "flip" an instance of a switch to a particular value is to > make that switch come to have that value (regardless of what the > switch's value was previously). To "become X", where X is a > possible value of exactly one of the subject's switches, is to > have that switch change value to X from some other value. > > ["Become" refers to a change in switch value, not the action of > changing it (which is what "flip" is). Explicate for both definitions > whether a null change counts.] So "I become active" will no longer be an acceptable variant of "I flip my activity to active"? -root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: proposal: fix switch definitions
or "I'm flip'in active"? Quoting Ian Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: On 8/17/07, Zefram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: To "flip" an instance of a switch to a particular value is to make that switch come to have that value (regardless of what the switch's value was previously). To "become X", where X is a possible value of exactly one of the subject's switches, is to have that switch change value to X from some other value. ["Become" refers to a change in switch value, not the action of changing it (which is what "flip" is). Explicate for both definitions whether a null change counts.] So "I become active" will no longer be an acceptable variant of "I flip my activity to active"? -root -- Peekee
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: proposal: fix switch definitions
Ian Kelly wrote: >So "I become active" will no longer be an acceptable variant of "I >flip my activity to active"? I think it would reasonably imply that you are flipping your activity. To say "I make myself active" would be a more direct synonym of "I flip my activity to active", and it's clearer when interpreted as plain English too. -zefram
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: proposal: fix switch definitions
On 8/17/07, Zefram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ian Kelly wrote: > >So "I become active" will no longer be an acceptable variant of "I > >flip my activity to active"? > > I think it would reasonably imply that you are flipping your activity. > To say "I make myself active" would be a more direct synonym of "I > flip my activity to active", and it's clearer when interpreted as plain > English too. It seems to me that the explicit definition of "become" creates an ambiguity in meaning that prevents R754(1) from applying. I would also argue thet "I make myself active" is closer in meaning to "I become active" than to "I flip my activity to active." -root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: proposal: fix switch definitions
Ian Kelly wrote: >also argue thet "I make myself active" is closer in meaning to "I >become active" than to "I flip my activity to active." I find that a strange assertion. "I become active" says nothing about the means by which one becomes active, whereas both of the others are explicit that one is performing an action on oneself. -zefram
DIS: proto: return of the newbie award
proto-proposal: return of the newbie award
AI: 2
{{{
Amend rule 2126 by appending to the list of ways that VCs can be
gained (and lost, if both are in a single list):
(+W) When a person becomes a player and has never been a player
before, e gains 1 white VC. When a person has been a
player continuously for 100 days and has never been a
player before that period, e gains 1 white VC.
[Long ago there was a currency award to new players. This version of
the newbie award has a couple of twists to make it interesting. The
immediate registration award, being only a single VC, can't be used
for anything on its own, even to transfer to another player, so
spamming registrations can't be used to inject lots of VCs into the
economy. White VCs can't be gained any other way, so they're valuable
to a long-term player as a rare colour, especially if we add ways to
spend (say) six colours together in the future, so there's a tension
created between using the VC immediately and saving it up. Finally,
the 100-day bonus is not only an incentive to keep playing, it also
opens up the possibility of transferring a white VC to another player
who's collecting colours, but only if the new player kept eir first
white VC. Incentive to enter into contracts early.]
}}}
-zefram
Re: DIS: proto: black cap
On 8/17/07, Zefram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > within a time limit, e gains one VC. The VC gained is Black > if the judicial question is on sentencing, or Blue otherwise. > on veracity or culpability, e gains one Blue VC, unless e Spurious line. -- Taral <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Please let me know if there's any further trouble I can give you." -- Unknown
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: MMI fix
On 8/17/07, Zefram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >This is starting to remind me of this paper: > >http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/steele.pdf > > A brilliant paper. Quite persuasive in its point, I think. Nifty, I was previously unaware of that paper. Disappointing that he never discusses Python, which is remarkably similar to the model he describes, but of course it was written 9 years ago. -root
Re: DIS: proto: return of the newbie award
> (+W) When a person becomes a player and has never been a player >before, e gains 1 white VC. When a person has been a >player continuously for 100 days and has never been a >player before that period, e gains 1 white VC. I'd restrict the award to first-class persons, to avoid partnership spam. ..Pavitra
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: CFJ 1727: assign Wooble
On 8/17/07, comex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I judge FALSE. BobTHJ was not recused "because a judicial question > > has remained applicable, open, and unjudged"; e chose to recuse emself > > because (or so e said at the time, and I see no reason not to take em > > at eir word) e didn't have enough time to judge the case. Indeed, e > > initially asked the CotC to recuse em from the case, which was not > > possible as e was not late in judgment. In my reading of 2126 I > > believe the purpose of the penalty for being recused is to punish > > those who are removed from cases due to not meeting their obligations, > > not to punish any Judge who recuses emself whether because of time > > constraints or because of a conflict of interest. > > I intend, with 2 support, to appeal this judgement. Is there anything in particular that's wrong with it? -root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: Republic repair
Zefram wrote: Ed Murphy wrote: Proto-Proposal: Republic repair I'm opposed to this being a separate proposal from the Republic of Agora. Merge the fixes into the main proposal. I plan to; that was written before I saw the votes swinging roughly 2 to 1 against.
Re: DIS: proto: reward deputisation
Zefram wrote:
proto-proposal: reward for deputisation
AI: 2
{{{
Amend rule 2126 by appending to the list of ways that VCs can be gained:
d) When a player deputises for an office e gains one Cyan VC,
unless someone previously gained a VC in this manner for the
same office in the same month.
[Another rarer action to reward with a new colour.]
I suggest Magenta (opposite of Green) for this, and Yellow (opposite of
Blue) for judging sentencing on time. Cyan (opposite of Red) could be
used for the Zeitgeist award.
DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: Transfinite arithmetic
Ed Murphy wrote: >Proto-Proposal: Transfinite arithmetic Do you have a use for more of those identities, then? -zefram
Re: DIS: proto: reward deputisation
Ed Murphy wrote: >I suggest Magenta (opposite of Green) for this, Pavitra already claimed magenta as the celebratory colour. >Yellow (opposite of >Blue) for judging sentencing on time. Mm. Not a very judicial colour is yellow. Black has a specific association with sentencing, which is why I picked it. > Cyan (opposite of Red) could be >used for the Zeitgeist award. I was thinking orange would be suitable for zeitgeist, being adjacent and similar to red. I was originally hoping that we could make something of the mathematical relationships between the primary colours, perhaps a way of generating one colour from another like the Beads proto some months ago. But the associations you're suggesting in the meanings are too weak to make any semantics from. I think we're better off seeking psychological associations with the colours. I have a couple more ideas for VC colours that I'm doing this way. -zefram
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: Transfinite arithmetic
Zefram wrote: Ed Murphy wrote: Proto-Proposal: Transfinite arithmetic Do you have a use for more of those identities, then? Variety Show agreement, item 6c. Standard arithmetic covers that particular case, but still.
Re: DIS: proto: reward deputisation
Zefram wrote: Ed Murphy wrote: I suggest Magenta (opposite of Green) for this, Pavitra already claimed magenta as the celebratory colour. Mauve, actually. I was thinking orange would be suitable for zeitgeist, being adjacent and similar to red. Orange alert. Orange alert. I was originally hoping that we could make something of the mathematical relationships between the primary colours, perhaps a way of generating one colour from another like the Beads proto some months ago. But the associations you're suggesting in the meanings are too weak to make any semantics from. I think we're better off seeking psychological associations with the colours. I have a couple more ideas for VC colours that I'm doing this way. Here's a list of things that you could get Boons for, about a year ago: * Recognizing Agora's birthday * Speaker's choice on April Fool's Day * Having zero Blots * Protege naming up to four mentors within four weeks after eir 60-day Grace Period * Repealing a rule when there are 100+ rules and the Rulekeepor feels the repeal simplifies the rules * Proposal adopted during one's Grace Period * Proposal adopted on Guy Fawkes Day * Speaker's choice once a week
DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: Transfinite arithmetic
Proto-Proposal: Transfinite arithmetic d) 0 / Y = 0 +inf / +inf = undefined +inf / Y= +inf otherwise X/ +inf = 0otherwise (-X) / Y = X / (-Y) = -(X/Y) X / 0 = +inf if X > 0 X / 0 = -inf if X < 0 +inf's could also be sorted based on the numbers that led to them, e.g. 2/0 > 1/0, but that would be complicated and sometimes inappropriate (e.g. a democratic proposal receiving votes F F F F F F is arguably more strongly supported than an ordinary proposal receiving votes 5F 5F 5F 5F 5F).
Re: DIS: proto: reward deputisation
Ed Murphy wrote: >Mauve, actually. OscarMeyr was the one who suggested mauve. Pavitra said magenta after I suggested using a primary colour. >Here's a list of things that you could get Boons for, about a year ago: What was a Boon? Most of the things you list here are too rare or too arbitrary to form part of a collect-them-all goal. The ones that look VC-worthy are: > * Recognizing Agora's birthday OscarMeyr's suggestion in Pavitra's thread. > * Protege naming up to four mentors within four weeks after > eir 60-day Grace Period This one's interesting. My proposal for the newbie award opens up the possibility of the newbie transferring the award (halved by the transfer) to someone else, making a rare collectible of a roughly similar nature. -zefram
Re: DIS: proto: reward deputisation
Zefram wrote: Here's a list of things that you could get Boons for, about a year ago: What was a Boon? Boons and Albatrosses were Ephemeral Patent Titles. At the end of each quarter, each player's Kudos (used to pay for various interesting actions) were reset to a baseline + #Boons - #Albatrosses, then all Boons and Albatrosses were revoked.
