DIS: Proto-contest: The Cylons of Battlestar Agora
The following is a proto-contest. Kudos to the Werewolves of Agora Nomic contest for providing templating. 1a) The name of this public contract is The Cylons of Battlestar Agora. 1b) The purpose of this contract is to be a contest. 1c) Any first-class person CAN become a party to this contract by announcement. Any party not in a session CAN cease to be a party by announcement. 1d) The gamemaster is the contestmaster of this contract. If this contract has no contestmaster, the gamemaster is root. 1e) The gamemaster CAN amend this contract without member objection. 2a) Each session SHALL generally follow the rules of Battlestar Galactica: the Board Game, to be augmented and overridden by this contract. In the context of the board game rules, the word "player" shall mean "colonial". The board game rules are available in PDF form at: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/bsg/support.shtml 2b) The gamemaster SHALL perform all random determinations and card deals. 2c) The gamemaster SHALL keep each colonial informed of all state of eir session to which e is privy. The gamemaster SHALL NOT otherwise disclose any non-public session state. 2d) Where a colonial is required to make a public decision, e SHALL do so by announcement. Where a colonial is required to make a private decision, e SHALL do so by publicly informing the gamemaster of eir decision. 2e) Whenever a session is stalled for more than a week waiting for a colonial to act, the gamemaster CAN take over eir position by announcement. Upon doing so, the colonial is removed from the session, and the gamemaster SHALL make all necessary decisions for eir character. 2f) The gamemaster CAN end a session without the objection of any colonial in that session. 2g) All rules disputes pertaining to a session shall be decided by the gamemaster. The gamemaster shall follow the spirit of the board game rules whereever possible. 3) While there are at least 3 contestants not in a session, the gamemaster CAN, and SHALL as soon as possible: a) Initiate a session by announcement, indicating a set of contestants not already in a session, numbering between 3 and 6 inclusive. The colonials for this session are the indicated contestants. b) Randomly determine and announce the turn order of the colonials. c) Announce the completion of the above requirements. This starts the session's character selection phase. 4a) During a session's character selection phase, each colonial SHALL, in turn order, announce eir selection of character as allowed by the base rules. 4b) After each colonial has announced eir character selection, the gamemaster SHALL deal cards as needed to complete the session setup. Once e has done so, e shall announce the completion of the character selection phase; this begins the first colonial's turn. 5) During a colonial's turn, after receiving eir skill cards, e SHALL do the following, in order: a) Optionally move to a different location by announcement. b) Optionally perform an available action by announcement, describing all the necessary parameters of the action. The gamemaster shall announce the outcome of the action, if necessary. If the colonial chooses not to perform an action, e SHALL announce this. 6) After a colonial's action has been resolved, the gamemaster SHALL do the following, in order: a) Deal a crisis card by announcement, which shall then be resolved. b) Announce the outcome of the crisis card. c) Conduct the Activate Cylon Ships and Prepare for Jump steps by announcement. d) Remind each colonial with more than 10 skill cards to discard down to 10 by privately informing the gamemaster. e) Announce the completion of the turn. This starts the turn of the next colonial in turn order. 7a) When a skill check is required, each colonial shall, in turn order beginning with the colonial following the colonial whose turn it is, privately inform the gamemaster which skill cards e chooses to play, then announce the number of skill cards e has played. 7b) After all colonials have played skill cards, the gamemaster SHALL announce all skill cards contributing to the skill check and the outcome of the skill check. 8) The session ends when either the humans or the cylons win. The contestmaster SHALL announce the end of the game and award floor(P/N) points to each winner of the session, where P is equal to 5 times the number of parties that are first-class players, and N is the number of winners of the session. -root
DIS: Re: BUS: Bank run, hopefully working this time
ais523 wrote: > [Actions in this message are meant to take place in order. If an action > fails, I intend to continue with the others regardless. Also, I intend > PBA actions to happen even if I have the number of Coins wrong.] > > I withdraw two 0 crops from the PBA. I deposit two 0 crops in the RBoA. > I deposit all my 37 Coins in the RBoA for 370 Chits. [etc.] tl;dr. Does this boil down to "exchange rates allow me to move assets around with the net effect of spending X to gain X+Y, with the RBoA correspondingly losing Y"?
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [chaokeepor] Chao Holdings Reports
0x44 wrote: > Elliott Hird wrote: >> I request fnordization. >> > You request what? Quiet, you.
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 2172a assigned to Murphy, OscarMeyr, Sir Toby
OscarMeyr wrote: >> Appeal 2172a >> > > I missed this one, and I don't have the time to look at it. If > possible, I recuse myself from 2172a. It isn't, but I'll recuse the panel and assign a new one the next time I catch up on judicial activity.
DIS: Re: BUS: [chaokeepor] Chao Holdings Reports
Elliott Hird wrote: I request fnordization. You request what? -- -- 0x44;
DIS: Re: BUS: Finishing songs
On Oct 20, 2008, at 7:49 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: avpx: There once was a man from Agora who replied not to the public fora. His votes were submitted, but his say was omitted, though his ballots were cast in plethora. Concise, yet tells a full story. Good job. ehird: (b) A Patent Title herein is ordained: We name it "Bard", and grant it those with wit. In order for the Title to be gained, A level of Support must call for it. Three players to a fourth may grant the name If three shall write as one with two Support. A current Bard may also grant the same Provided that a second Bard's a sport. So that we don't the name of Bard debase: With three Support, a Player can conspire To (from a Bard) this Title to erase; Or Bards in triplicate a Bard retire. But lest we ruin some poor minstrel's fun, E CANNOT be dis-bard for awful pun. Where have I read this before? Wooble: I say I do, therefore I do. Don't quote to me your refuting rules, Though CFJs do not come back TRUE, I say I do, therefore I do. It works for me, it will work for you The judges and officers all are fools. I say I do, therefore I do, don't quote to me your refuting rules. Excellent use of repetition. Nicely done. Murphy: How slow is triple unanimity! That lofty goal of undisputed truth That three must reach in no more time than one. And so the order handed down to me: Recuse the lot if they be so uncouth That none persuade the rest before the gun. But I was lost, the cases like a sea; Extended kindness, as if to a youth And gave them extra time to judge and run. Apologies, I register a plea: No fun. Bonus points for the obscure rhyme scheme. (Anything more is a small conflict of interest.) Pavitra: O Protean Game, amended oft (In fits by law, in starts by scam), Thy glories Bard-prais'd, loud or soft, In many keys -- how glad I am To say this day, of all the year, (Occasion'd thy nativity,) To Public Forum, all to hear: Happy Birthday! (Ribbon me.) This poem flows smoothly. I like it. - Benjamin Schultz KE3OM OscarMeyr
DIS: Re: BUS: Finishing songs
On Monday 20 October 2008 06:49:17 pm Kerim Aydin wrote: > avpx: > There once was a man from Agora > who replied not to the public fora. > His votes were submitted, > but his say was omitted, > though his ballots were cast in plethora. Applause! > ehird: > (b) A Patent Title herein is ordained: >We name it "Bard", and grant it those with wit. >In order for the Title to be gained, >A level of Support must call for it. > >Three players to a fourth may grant the name >If three shall write as one with two Support. >A current Bard may also grant the same >Provided that a second Bard's a sport. > >So that we don't the name of Bard debase: >With three Support, a Player can conspire >To (from a Bard) this Title to erase; >Or Bards in triplicate a Bard retire. > >But lest we ruin some poor minstrel's fun, >E CANNOT be dis-bard for awful pun. Boo! for, indeed, this is base plagiarism. > Wooble: > I say I do, therefore I do. > Don't quote to me your refuting rules, > Though CFJs do not come back TRUE, > I say I do, therefore I do. > It works for me, it will work for you > The judges and officers all are fools. > I say I do, therefore I do, >don't quote to me your refuting rules. Applause! > Murphy: > How slow is triple unanimity! > That lofty goal of undisputed truth > That three must reach in no more time than one. > And so the order handed down to me: > Recuse the lot if they be so uncouth > That none persuade the rest before the gun. > But I was lost, the cases like a sea; > Extended kindness, as if to a youth > And gave them extra time to judge and run. > Apologies, I register a plea: > No fun. Applause! > Pavitra: > O Protean Game, amended oft > (In fits by law, in starts by scam), > Thy glories Bard-prais'd, loud or soft, > In many keys -- how glad I am > To say this day, of all the year, > (Occasion'd thy nativity,) > To Public Forum, all to hear: > Happy Birthday! (Ribbon me.) Silence! for, indeed, 'twould be corruptive self-interest. Pavitra
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: PBA question
On Oct 20, 2008, at 7:29 PM, Joshua Boehme wrote: Having just re-subscribed, I have no clue what is happening. Seeing as how that has yet to stop me, I register as a player. In the past, I have used the nickname Elysion, and since confusion seems to abound at the present I suppose I shall continue with that name. Woo-hoo! Welcome back Elysion! *throws shredded rulesets* - Benjamin Schultz KE3OM OscarMeyr
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: PBA question
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Joshua Boehme wrote: > Having just re-subscribed, I have no clue what is happening. Seeing as > how that has yet to stop me, I register as a player. In the past, I > have used the nickname Elysion, and since confusion seems to abound > at the present I suppose I shall continue with that name. Oh, sincere, sincere joy. hi!
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Informs
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008, Elliott Hird wrote: > On 21 Oct 2008, at 00:09, Kerim Aydin wrote: > >> It also means that "fishing expeditions" led by non-members armed >> with the potential name of a contract (but nothing more) should be >> discouraged by the Rules lest the means become a burden. I hope the >> current case does so discourage. > > Scam plotting and such should be allowed by the rules as you say but finding > out scams should be allowed too. Not at the cost of severe annoyance through the courts when the actions in question are legal anyway. Say you constantly put forth a stream of CFJs that alleged "Goethe is a member of 1 secret agreement" "2 secret agreements" "3 secret agreements" with no or limited proof. We have no power to subpoena private emails and I would prefer not to start or suggest that our courts have that power. -G.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Informs
On 21 Oct 2008, at 00:09, Kerim Aydin wrote: It also means that "fishing expeditions" led by non-members armed with the potential name of a contract (but nothing more) should be discouraged by the Rules lest the means become a burden. I hope the current case does so discourage. Scam plotting and such should be allowed by the rules as you say but finding out scams should be allowed too. -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Informs
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Elliott Hird wrote: > On 20 Oct 2008, at 23:32, Kerim Aydin wrote: >> Unless of course you'd rather the courts stayed out of your private >> affairs, in which case this is part of the full implications that you >> weigh when not doing something that you SHOULD. > > It was created in Agora. It is bound by the rules of Agora. Seriously though, there are lots of good reasons for having a private contract truly private but bound by the rules of Agora. And that indeed is still legal. Good reason: 1. I come up with an Agoran coup, power play, etc. Legitimate play. 2. Doing so would require several members acting in concert with quick timing. 3. Act must be secret, any leaks early and it all falls apart. Problem: How do you "trust" fellow conspirators? Solution: Write a contract that is "secret" but that if revealed, would penalize the revealer. This means that, if the plan works, the contract need never come out. If it fails due to a leak, the leaker can be penalized by the Rules of Agora. Enforced trust. Of course, this means you subscribe to the idea that said scams, conspiracies, power-plays are a worthwhile part of the game (I do in fact believe they are). It can be minor even, an agreement to trade currencies in a certain way to help towards a win, etc. It also means that "fishing expeditions" led by non-members armed with the potential name of a contract (but nothing more) should be discouraged by the Rules lest the means become a burden. I hope the current case does so discourage. Several pre-current-contract rules power plays were hatched in this manner. The re-write of the "current Rules" to present form of allowing private contracts at all kept this possibility. I personally disagree with the "SHOULD inform the notary" clause for this reason, but at least reasons 1-3 above should be enough that the members have "considered the full implications" for not doing something that they SHOULD. -Goethe
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Informs
On 20 Oct 2008, at 23:39, Kerim Aydin wrote: Bha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Oh thanks ehird, that's sincerely the best ironic laugh I've had in this forum since you joined. I'd love for you to point out the things I've done to make that hypocritical, if you please. -- ehird
DIS: Re: BUS: The People's Bank of Agora -- like the RBoA, only communist!
On 20 Oct 2008, at 23:45, warrigal wrote: I withdraw as many coins as possible from the RBoA. Thanks a bunch. More unknown gamestate. Sigh. We need BobTHJ's report. -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Informs
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Elliott Hird wrote: > It was created in Agora. It is bound by the rules of Agora. Agora is not a > host > for your > personal ninja club any more than incidentally. They're not your "private > affairs". Bha hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Oh thanks ehird, that's sincerely the best ironic laugh I've had in this forum since you joined.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Informs
On 20 Oct 2008, at 23:32, Kerim Aydin wrote: Unless of course you'd rather the courts stayed out of your private affairs, in which case this is part of the full implications that you weigh when not doing something that you SHOULD. I'm please that the UNDEAD (*if* it exists, its existence I neither confirm nor deny by this statement) is still fulfilling its role of [redacted]. -G. It was created in Agora. It is bound by the rules of Agora. Agora is not a host for your personal ninja club any more than incidentally. They're not your "private affairs". That's my view, anyway. -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Informs
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Alex Smith wrote: > This is, of course, why you SHOULD inform the Notary; so that judicial > cases with respect to the contract can go through expediently. Actually, it occurs to me that "informing the Notary of parties" != "informing the Notary on how to contact parties". So this doesn't help. -G.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Informs
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Alex Smith wrote: > Well, the way it used to be was that the judge did informs, and the > Notary informed them of the parties. A proposal a while back introduced > a bug in this by changing the informs from the judge to the CotC (it was > after I joined, so quite recent). This is, of course, why you SHOULD > inform the Notary; so that judicial cases with respect to the contract > can go through expediently. Unless of course you'd rather the courts stayed out of your private affairs, in which case this is part of the full implications that you weigh when not doing something that you SHOULD. I'm please that the UNDEAD (*if* it exists, its existence I neither confirm nor deny by this statement) is still fulfilling its role of [redacted]. -G.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Informs
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 15:14 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: > On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Alex Smith wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 22:02 -0700, Ed Murphy wrote: > >> I inform the parties to the following contracts of the following equity > >> cases, and invite them to submit arguments regarding the equitability of > >> the situation: > >> UNDEAD > >> http://zenith.homelinux.net/cotc/viewcase.php?cfj=2223 > > CoE: do you know that all the parties to UNDEAD are subscribed to > > agora-business? > > There's an interesting bug. If I make the members of an arbitrary > contract the "usual" members plus my non-nomic friend whose email I > decline to provide (but provide evidence with email redacted that e > read the contract etc.) does that halt any equity case? > Well, the way it used to be was that the judge did informs, and the Notary informed them of the parties. A proposal a while back introduced a bug in this by changing the informs from the judge to the CotC (it was after I joined, so quite recent). This is, of course, why you SHOULD inform the Notary; so that judicial cases with respect to the contract can go through expediently. -- ais523
DIS: Re: BUS: Informs
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Alex Smith wrote: > On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 22:02 -0700, Ed Murphy wrote: >> I inform the parties to the following contracts of the following equity >> cases, and invite them to submit arguments regarding the equitability of >> the situation: >> UNDEAD >> http://zenith.homelinux.net/cotc/viewcase.php?cfj=2223 > CoE: do you know that all the parties to UNDEAD are subscribed to > agora-business? There's an interesting bug. If I make the members of an arbitrary contract the "usual" members plus my non-nomic friend whose email I decline to provide (but provide evidence with email redacted that e read the contract etc.) does that halt any equity case? -Goethe
DIS: An obvious request to BobTHJ
BobTHJ - please publish an RBoA report as soon as possible, because I don't think anyone really knows the current state of it. Be sure to read ais523's interpretation email, ofc. But yes, we really need to know. (So that everyone can evacuate quicker, naturally. ;-) ) -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] Docket
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Elliott Hird wrote: > On 20 Oct 2008, at 23:01, Charles Reiss wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 22:22, Ed Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> [snip] >>> 2223 ais523UNDEAD PT ends 10/23 05:02:46 >> >> Claim of Error: ais523 is not a party to UNDEAD and it is not a >> pledge, so this case was not initiated. >> >> -woggle > > You can only be sure of these if you yourself are a party. E doesn't have to be sure to make the claim. Hence the word "claim" -Goethe.
DIS: PBA Calculations
These are the calculations I went through (with ehird and Wooble helping)
to figure out the effect my recent asset-shifting had on the PBA.
The effect on the RBoA is more complicated and open to interpretation, and
I haven't worked out what happened there.
Of course, the exchange rates at the bottom are now slightly outdated,
as transactions have happened since.
{{{
> I withdraw two 0 crops from the PBA. I deposit two 0 crops in the RBoA.
> I deposit all my 37 Coins in the RBoA for 370 Chits.
Coins loss: 1+2=3. Exchange rate for 0 crops now 3. Then the deposit
leaves me with no Coins.
> I deposit 14 VP in the PBA, for 231 Coins. I deposit those 231 Coins in
> the RBoA for 2130 Chits. I then withdraw 14 VP from the RBoA, for (I
> think) 1309 Coins.
Coin gain: 13+12+11+10+9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1+0 = 91. I may or many not end up
depositing as many as possible of these in the RBoA. There are now 14 VP
in the RBoA at exchange rate 0.
> I withdraw four 1 crops from the RBoA.
> I deposit four 1 crops in the PBA.
Coin gain: 19+18+17+16 = 70. There are now 4 1 crops in the PBA at
exchange rate 16.
> This gives me 70 Coins, which I deposit in the RBoA for 700 Chits.
I now only have 91 or 0 Coins.
> I withdraw four crops from the RBoA.
Nothing happens.
> I deposit four 1 crops in the PBA.
I don't have these.
> This gives me 54 Coins, which I deposit in the RBoA for 540 Chits.
This might work, depending on if I deposited 91 Coins in the RBoA earlier.
So I now have 37 or 0 Coins.
> I withdraw five 1 crops from the RBoA.
This definitely works, I got the spare Chits I needed either just now, or
earlier.
> I deposit five 1 crops in the PBA.
Coin gain: 15+14+13+12+11 = 65. There are now 9 1 crops in the PBA at
exchange rate 11.
> This gives me 45 Coins, which I deposit in the RBoA for 450 Chits.
It is unclear here whether this deposits 45 Coins, or 65. 45 seems the
most plausible given that coins are fungible.
As a result, I have 45, 65, 82, or 102 Coins at this point.
Now, most important is to calculate my Chit holdings at this point, to see
how many 7 Crops I can afford. I definitely got at least 700 from the first
four 1 Crops, and 370 from my initial deposition of Coins. Also, either I
deposited 54 Coins when I tried, or 91 earlier, giving me another at least
540. This means that I have at least 1610 Chits, not counting withdrawals
from the RBoA. Since then, I withdrew 9 1 Crops, costing me 594 Chits. This
means I have at least 1610-594=1016 Chits. Depending on interpretation
earlier, though, I probably have more. Still, this means that I can
definitely afford thirteen 7 crops at this point.
> I withdraw four 7 crops from the RBoA. I deposit them in the PBA. I
> deposit the resulting 86 Chits for 860 Coins.
> I withdraw four 7 crops from the RBoA. I deposit them in the PBA. I
> deposit the resulting 70 Chits for 700 Coins.
> I withdraw five 7 crops from the RBoA. I deposit them in the PBA. I
> deposit the resulting 65 Chits for 650 Coins.
The 7 crop withdraw/deposit works. The deposit of "chits for coins"
fails, as no bank allows Chits to be deposited.
Coin gain: 23+22+21+20+19+18+17+16+15+14+13+12+11 = 221.
The PBA now has thirteen 7 Crops, and an exchange rate for 7 crops of 11.
> I withdraw a 3 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit
> the resulting 12 Coins in the RBoA for 120 Chits.
> I withdraw a 3 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit
> the resulting 11 Coins in the RBoA for 110 Chits.
> I withdraw a 3 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit
> the resulting 10 Coins in the RBoA for 100 Chits.
> I withdraw a 3 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit
> the resulting 9 Coins in the RBoA for 90 Chits.
> I withdraw a 3 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit
> the resulting 8 Coins in the RBoA for 80 Chits.
These all obviously work; the change left over from the thirteen 7 Crops
is easily enough to afford a 3 Crop, and from then on each transaction
gains me enough assets to pay for the next one.
Coin gain: net 0.
The PBA now has 6 3 crops (it had one before), and 3 crops now have an
exchange rate of 8.
> I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit
> the resulting 12 coins in the RBoA for 120 Chits.
> I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit
> the resulting 11 coins in the RBoA for 110 Chits.
> I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit
> the resulting 10 coins in the RBoA for 100 Chits.
> I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit
> the resulting 9 coins in the RBoA for 90 Chits.
> I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit
> the resulting 8 coins in the RBoA for 80 Chits.
> I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit
> the resulting 7 coins in the RBoA for 70 Chits.
> I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit
> the resulting 6 coins in the RBoA for 60 C
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] Docket
On 20 Oct 2008, at 23:01, Charles Reiss wrote: On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 22:22, Ed Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [snip] 2223 ais523UNDEAD PT ends 10/23 05:02:46 Claim of Error: ais523 is not a party to UNDEAD and it is not a pledge, so this case was not initiated. -woggle You can only be sure of these if you yourself are a party. -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Converging the gamestates
On 20 Oct 2008, at 22:37, Elliott Hird wrote: On 20 Oct 2008, at 21:22, warrigal wrote: I withdraw as many coins as possible from the RBoA. --Warrigal of Escher Scratch that. This fails, you are not a Comrade. -- ehird Actually, if you specified an actual chit value they would be destroyed and the RBoA SHALL give the coins to you but cannot. However, "as many coins as possible" is, due to this, 0, I think. So yes, no effect. -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Converging the gamestates
On 20 Oct 2008, at 21:22, warrigal wrote: I withdraw as many coins as possible from the RBoA. --Warrigal of Escher Scratch that. This fails, you are not a Comrade. -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Note exchange and PBA stuff
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 16:21 -0500, Pavitra wrote: > On Monday 20 October 2008 12:02:55 pm Alex Smith wrote: > > I join the Note Exchange. I fill the open Buy Ticket to create Note > > Markers. (How many do I have to create?). > > If you're referring to my Crescendo ticket, then it's six different > pitches, but there's a pledge involved too. The message is here: > http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2008-October/014532.html > Well, I was planning to agree to a pledge along those lines anyway, based on the filling of that ticker. Do you really want me to deposit the credits in the RBoA, though? I will agree to the pledge as written, and mandated, if you like; otherwise, we can negotiate an amendment to the pledge before it's created, and I doubt an equity court will disagree. -- ais523
DIS: Re: BUS: Note exchange and PBA stuff
On Monday 20 October 2008 12:02:55 pm Alex Smith wrote: > I join the Note Exchange. I fill the open Buy Ticket to create Note > Markers. (How many do I have to create?). If you're referring to my Crescendo ticket, then it's six different pitches, but there's a pledge involved too. The message is here: http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2008-October/014532.html Pavitra
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Converging the gamestates
On 20 Oct 2008, at 21:22, warrigal wrote: I withdraw as many coins as possible from the RBoA. --Warrigal of Escher I have absolutely no idea how many this is due to the recent stuff. Anyone know? -- ehird
Re: DIS: Proto-contract: The Agoran Fast Food Society
On Sunday 19 October 2008 11:02:20 am warrigal wrote: > (Did I mention that I was expecting you guys to pick random > positive integers rather than using random bits elsewhere? Oh well. > And Pavitra, do you have an existing program that's capable of > finding Potatoes?) I used Hashcash, before you changed it to SHA-512. Pavitra
Re: DIS: Proto: Spelling abuse capitalisation VLOP
On Monday 20 October 2008 07:58:15 am Alex Smith wrote: > An eligible word is any word which occurs in a Rule, and/or any > word defined in a well-known English dictionary. I'd rather have it just be the Rules. We don't have to deal with ambiguous dictionaries, and there'll be maneouvreing to pass rules with specific words in them.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Converging the gamestates
On 20 Oct 2008, at 21:10, Ian Kelly wrote: There were 75 deposited by Pavitra, 75 deposited by Wooble, and 663 from the scam. What am I missing? -root Thanks. I missed Pavitra's. Fixed. RBoA has 850 coins. -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Converging the gamestates
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 14:10 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Elliott Hird > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On 20 Oct 2008, at 20:39, Ian Kelly wrote: > >> > >> By my calculations, the RBoA has at least 813 coins and very little > >> else. That make coins worth more than 20 chits apiece. > >> > >> I believe I have 4337 chits. I withdraw 394 coins for 4334 chits; if > >> I have fewer chits than 4334, then I withdraw as many coins as I can. > >> > >> -root > > > > > > http://agora.eso-std.org/pba-report > > > > RBoA has 775 coins, it appears. > > There were 75 deposited by Pavitra, 75 deposited by Wooble, and 663 > from the scam. What am I missing? > ehird got me and Wooble to do the calculations resulting from the scam, for the PBA. It seems e missed Wooble's 75-coin transfer to the RBoA. -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Converging the gamestates
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Elliott Hird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 20 Oct 2008, at 20:39, Ian Kelly wrote: >> >> By my calculations, the RBoA has at least 813 coins and very little >> else. That make coins worth more than 20 chits apiece. >> >> I believe I have 4337 chits. I withdraw 394 coins for 4334 chits; if >> I have fewer chits than 4334, then I withdraw as many coins as I can. >> >> -root > > > http://agora.eso-std.org/pba-report > > RBoA has 775 coins, it appears. There were 75 deposited by Pavitra, 75 deposited by Wooble, and 663 from the scam. What am I missing? -root
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5794-5802
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 4:14 AM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> 5797 D 1 2.0 Taral Office with care > FOR, even though I think it's a no-op Not a no-op. Second-class players now must consent regardless of when they were nominated. -- Taral <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Please let me know if there's any further trouble I can give you." -- Unknown
DIS: Re: BUS: Converging the gamestates
On 20 Oct 2008, at 20:39, Ian Kelly wrote: By my calculations, the RBoA has at least 813 coins and very little else. That make coins worth more than 20 chits apiece. I believe I have 4337 chits. I withdraw 394 coins for 4334 chits; if I have fewer chits than 4334, then I withdraw as many coins as I can. -root http://agora.eso-std.org/pba-report RBoA has 775 coins, it appears. -- ehird
DIS: Re: BUS: Converging the gamestates
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 13:39 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If the PBA has exactly six X crops, I withdraw two X crops from the PBA. > > > > I deposit all my Coins in the RBoA, for an appropriate number of Chits. > > By my calculations, the RBoA has at least 813 coins and very little > else. That make coins worth more than 20 chits apiece. > > I believe I have 4337 chits. I withdraw 394 coins for 4334 chits; if > I have fewer chits than 4334, then I withdraw as many coins as I can. > I believe it still has lots of 0 Crops left, if anybody wants them... -- ais523
DIS: Re: BUS: [chaokeepor] Chao Holdings Reports
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Elliott Hird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 20 Oct 2008, at 13:58, Geoffrey Spear wrote: >> The following is a list of the assets tracked by the Outer Head of the >> Agoran Illuminati and holdings of each. >> >> The Sacred Chao: owned by Wooble >> >> chaos: >> 0x44: 4 >> ais523: 10 >> Olipro: 6 >> Sir Toby: 7 >> Taral: 23 >> Wooble: 50 > > I request fnordization. I also request fnordization. --Warrigal of Escher
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank run, hopefully working this time
On 20 Oct 2008, at 19:32, Ian Kelly wrote: Can somebody post the current PBA rates and holdings? -root ais is kindly working them out for me. I recommend that you change all your chits into coins soon, as I believe the RBoA is now effectively worthless. -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank run, hopefully working this time
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 12:32 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > Can somebody post the current PBA rates and holdings? > I'm trying to work them out right now. I think there are as many as 6 different possibilities for what happened, due to typos in my scam... -- ais523
DIS: Re: BUS: Bank run, hopefully working this time
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [Actions in this message are meant to take place in order. If an action > fails, I intend to continue with the others regardless. Also, I intend > PBA actions to happen even if I have the number of Coins wrong.] > > I withdraw two 0 crops from the PBA. I deposit two 0 crops in the RBoA. > I deposit all my 37 Coins in the RBoA for 370 Chits. > I deposit 14 VP in the PBA, for 231 Coins. I deposit those 231 Coins in > the RBoA for 2130 Chits. I then withdraw 14 VP from the RBoA, for (I > think) 1309 Coins. > I withdraw four 1 crops from the RBoA. > I deposit four 1 crops in the PBA. > This gives me 70 Coins, which I deposit in the RBoA for 700 Chits. > I withdraw four crops from the RBoA. > I deposit four 1 crops in the PBA. > This gives me 54 Coins, which I deposit in the RBoA for 540 Chits. > I withdraw five 1 crops from the RBoA. > I deposit five 1 crops in the PBA. > This gives me 45 Coins, which I deposit in the RBoA for 450 Chits. > I withdraw four 7 crops from the RBoA. I deposit them in the PBA. I > deposit the resulting 86 Chits for 860 Coins. > I withdraw four 7 crops from the RBoA. I deposit them in the PBA. I > deposit the resulting 70 Chits for 700 Coins. > I withdraw five 7 crops from the RBoA. I deposit them in the PBA. I > deposit the resulting 65 Chits for 650 Coins. > I withdraw a 3 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 12 Coins in the RBoA for 120 Chits. > I withdraw a 3 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 11 Coins in the RBoA for 110 Chits. > I withdraw a 3 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 10 Coins in the RBoA for 100 Chits. > I withdraw a 3 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 9 Coins in the RBoA for 90 Chits. > I withdraw a 3 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 8 Coins in the RBoA for 80 Chits. > I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 12 coins in the RBoA for 120 Chits. > I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 11 coins in the RBoA for 110 Chits. > I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 10 coins in the RBoA for 100 Chits. > I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 9 coins in the RBoA for 90 Chits. > I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 8 coins in the RBoA for 80 Chits. > I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 7 coins in the RBoA for 70 Chits. > I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 6 coins in the RBoA for 60 Chits. > I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 5 coins in the RBoA for 50 Chits. > I withdraw a 4 crop from the RBoA. I deposit it in the PBA. I deposit > the resulting 4 coins in the RBoA for 40 Chits. > I withdraw a Favor from the RBoA, deposit it in the RBoA for 23 Coins, > and deposit them in the RBoA for 230 Chits. > I withdraw up to six 5 crops from the RBoA, as many as it has if it has > less than 6. I deposit them in the PBA, for 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, and 9 > Coins respectively, or as many as I withdrew if I withdrew less than 6. > This gives me up to 69 Coins. > I withdraw all the 2 Crops in the RBoA. > I withdraw all the X crops from the RBoA (or as many as I can afford if > I can't afford all of them), and deposit them in the PBA. > I withdraw as many WRV as I can afford from the RBoA. (Probably this is > all of them.) > I withdraw as many VP as I can afford from the RBoA. (Probably this is > not all of them, but I'm not sure.) > I withdraw as many 8 crops as I can afford from the RBoA. (Almost > certainly this is not all of them, probably none.) > I withdraw as many 4 crops as I can afford from the RBoA. (Just in > case...) Can somebody post the current PBA rates and holdings? -root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ 2220
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Geoffrey Spear wrote: > On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Kerim Aydin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> When I go to that website, I see a series >> of scripts. It would be quite possible for me to click on one of those >> scripts and unknowingly take an action. It is quite possible that it >> is IMPOSSIBLE to join perlnomic as the contract is written. > > Assuming you're not already a player, no action you could take could > directly cause you to become an active player. You can only use the > adduser script to request to become an active player, after which the > existing players can vote on it, and *then* you can use the activate > script to actually become an active player. The adduser script asks > that you read the metarules, which state that players agree to the > Contracts, including the PNP contract. I figured it was something like this. So what I'm concerned with is that the PNP contract says you become a member by becoming a player, but does not contain sufficient detail on what "becoming a player" entails. No info. on metarules, etc, or even a simple "information on becoming a player may be obtained from any current member". Deferring to a mysterious and undefined (in the contract) process isn't enough for specification for: "If a contract specifies a mechanism by which Contract Changes to it can be performed, then such changes CAN be performed using that mechanism." [R2198] and thus it triggers: If a Contract Change is ambiguous or its permissibility cannot be determined with certainty at the time it is attempted, then that change has no effect. [R2197]. "Specification" would be as simple as adding to the contract itself "become a player as outlined in [reference]", but that's not there. Therefore the contract itself doesn't specify how to become a member in sufficient detail to allow it to take place. For legal reasons, the specification must exist in official "contract text", as otherwise it is not actionable in court. Also note, this is different than the case of a private contract, which merely would require that someone be shown the text by a member, but once shown, it's in the contract text. The PNP contract itself claims to be the full contract, but doesn't contain the right references. -Goethe
DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ 2220
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Kerim Aydin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > When I go to that website, I see a series > of scripts. It would be quite possible for me to click on one of those > scripts and unknowingly take an action. It is quite possible that it > is IMPOSSIBLE to join perlnomic as the contract is written. Assuming you're not already a player, no action you could take could directly cause you to become an active player. You can only use the adduser script to request to become an active player, after which the existing players can vote on it, and *then* you can use the activate script to actually become an active player. The adduser script asks that you read the metarules, which state that players agree to the Contracts, including the PNP contract. Now it's true that a proposal in PerlNomic could flip the activity switch of a player without any action on their part; if this were to be done the purported contract change making that player a partner would be INVALID, and the players who passed the proposal would probably be in breach of the contract. (Or maybe not; causing PerlNomic to send a false message to the PF claiming a party change is no longer against the rules, so partners have no duty to not make it do that.)
DIS: Re: BUS: Bank run, hopefully working this time
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 18:53 +0100, Alex Smith wrote: > [Actions in this message are meant to take place in order. If an action > fails, I intend to continue with the others regardless. Also, I intend > PBA actions to happen even if I have the number of Coins wrong.] > > I withdraw two 0 crops from the PBA. I deposit two 0 crops in the RBoA. > I deposit all my 37 Coins in the RBoA for 370 Chits. > I deposit 14 VP in the PBA, for 231 Coins. I deposit those 231 Coins in > the RBoA for 2130 Chits. I then withdraw 14 VP from the RBoA, for (I > think) 1309 Coins. The line above fails to some extent, as 14 VP only get me 91 Coins. I therefore get 910 Chits, plus the 370 from my deposit earlier, leading to 1280 Chits, not enough to withdraw 14 VP. However, the scam works whether you rule that I withdrew no VP at that stage, or as many as I could. -- ais523
DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ 2220
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Alex Smith wrote: > It's now possible to become a member of the PNP by, and only by, > performing an action in PerlNomic that causes activity. All such actions > require knowledge of the member in question's PerlNomic username and > password, and active free will by someone to enter them into PerlNomic > and perform the action. I would argue that if someone guessed Warrigal's > password and entered it, that would not automatically cause Warrigal to > become a member of the contract (and thus the PNP's announcement to the > PF of the change would be ineffective), but if ihope deliberately does > something in PerlNomic, such as voting, that causes activation (with > full knowledge of the consequences, as e has), then they do become party > to the contract. This is basically the same reasoning as Goethe's > judgement, and thus I won't appeal it merely because it's based on > invalid data; if Goethe thinks that this makes a material difference, > then I will support an appeal if e initiates it. Thanks ais523, you know I almost asked for confirmation of the contract, but then just didn't. In any case, I don't think it changes my argument: if an action is taken with knowledge, it can cause joining, if not, not. So in the general case, UNDETERMINED. -Goethe
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 2229 assigned to OscarMeyr
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Alex Smith wrote: > Therefore, the only situation in which I don't have to be informed is if > UNDEAD is not a contract at all. You mean to say, the only reason you SHOULD not be informed is if the would-be informers have weighed the consequences of doing so. -G.
DIS: Re: BUS: The UNDAD
On Tue, 2008-10-14 at 20:06 -0400, ihope wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 5:01 PM, comex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I create the following contract:
> > {
> > 1. This is a public contract called the UNDAD.
> > 2. Anyone can join this contract by announcement. Joining this
> > contract is known as "degregistration".
> > 3. comex CAN act on behalf of any party to this contract by announcement.
> > }
>
> Kyle is hereby defined as a non-registered entity on whose behalf I
> can act by announcement. Kyle degregisters.
>
> For that matter, Kyle registers, if possible.
>
As Notary and Registrar, I think these both fail. Almost certainly Kyle
== you; and if there's another possibility, it fails anyway as
ambiguous.
--
ais523
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: Deflating coins and inflating crops
On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Elliott Hird
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I intent to amend the PBA by adding: {After this section takes effect, the
> RBoA ceases
> to be a member of this contract, then this section is repealed.}
I object. The RBoA should be free to put itself in a position to lose
value while the exchange rates of assets reach their natural point.
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: PBA question
On 20 Oct 2008, at 14:07, Geoffrey Spear wrote: I do agree that the existing coins in the PBA's possession should be destroyed, and that withdrawing assets should involve the destruction of coins rather than transfer to the PBA. Feel free to write a different draft, I'm amending it enough as-is ;) -- ehird
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: PBA question
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Elliott Hird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > With the support of The People I intend to amend the PBA like so: I object. I'd prefer to leave the lost & found department out of it, and have coins created in the possession of the PBA when anyone destroys them without making a withdrawal. It's easier to redistribute (or loan out) excess coins if they're held by the PBA than if they're held by the L&F Dept. I do agree that the existing coins in the PBA's possession should be destroyed, and that withdrawing assets should involve the destruction of coins rather than transfer to the PBA.
DIS: Proto: Spelling abuse capitalisation VLOP
Ah, a Bayes title so good I had to make a proto around it. Maybe it
wouldn't be a good idea to do this immediately, but let us explore the
corner cases of Caste first; on the other hand, if people don't like
Caste, this might be something interesting to replace it with. (It also
reminds me a lot of the FRC, for some reason.) The idea is to make it
harder and harder to raise voting power due to the need to think up more
and more interesting words; the lowercase letters add flexibility, and
the Note expenditures for changing things are designed to allow
interesting moves like dramatically but temporarily dropping someone
else's voting power.
Proto-proposal (AI=2): Spelling abuse capitalisation VLOP
[Some bootstrapping stuff so that it doesn't affect votes in progress, I
can't remember how that works. Maybe we should codify it into the rules
rather than into every proposal that changes the way ordinary voting
works?]
Repeal rule 2211.
Replace rule 2156 with:
{{{
Keyword is a player switch, tracked by the Lexicographor, with a range
of all (possibly empty) strings of letters (case-sensitive, and with
order relevant). Its default value is "I" for first-class players, and
the null string for all other players. Changes to keyword are secured.
The eligible voters on an ordinary decision are those entities that were
active players at the start of its voting period. The voting limit of a
voter on an ordinary decision is eir instantaneous VLOP at the start of
that decision, or half that value if e was in the chokey at that time,
where instantaneous VLOP is defined as follows:
* The number of capital letters in eir keyword, if eir keyword is
(case-insensitively) an eligible word;
* 1, if eir keyword is not an eligible word, but the string of
letters that would be formed by removing all lowercase letters
from eir keyword is (case-insensitively) an eligible word;
* 0, otherwise.
An eligible word is any word which occurs in a Rule, and/or any word
defined in a well-known English dictionary.
}}}
Replace paragraphs (1)-(4) under the heading "Notes CAN be spent
(destroyed) as follows:" of rule 2126 with:
{{{
(1) A player CAN, at most once a week, spend five notes forming the
start of a major scale to delete a capital letter in eir keyword, or
insert a capital letter anywhere in eir keyword whilst keeping the other
letters in the same order.
(2) A player CAN, at most once a week, spend five notes forming the
start of a minor scale to delete a capital letter in another player's
keyword, or insert a capital letter anywhere in another player's keyword
whilst keeping the other letters in the same order.
(3) A player CAN spend two notes a major third apart to delete a
lowercase letter in eir keyword, or insert a capital letter anywhere in
eir keyword whilst keeping the other letters in the same order.
(4) A player CAN spend two notes a minor third apart to delete a
lowercase letter in another player's keyword, or insert a lowercase
letter anywhere in another player's keyword whilst keeping the other
letters in the same order.
}}}
and fix the whitespace in this to match the rest of the rule.
Add a rule, with title "The Lexicographer" and power 1:
{{{
The Lexicographer is an office; its holder is responsible for keeping
track of keywords. In addition to the keywords, eir report contains the
number of total letters and capital letters in each keyword, and whether
each keyword is an eligible word.
}}}
Flip each player's keyword to a random word found in this proposal,
written in allcaps, whose length is equal to their numerical Caste
before this proposal passed.
--
ais523
DIS: Re: BUS: Email problems
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 4:17 AM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > (However, Normish seems to be spam-blacklisted for > some unknown reason; therefore, I can't send from it in such a way that > other people will receive. This has been known to cause the mailing > lists to stop sending to it before (it happened to the PNP, for > instance) Actually, the PNP's problem wasn't that it couldn't send mail due to blacklisting; its problem was that messages to it were bouncing as permanently undeliverable. It's reasonable for mailing list software to remove subscriptions in such a case.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: Contestmaster Points
On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Ed Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > For the > record, Quazie and comex were the werewolves, and root was the seer. For the record, you guys lynched me for nominating comex.
DIS: Re: BUS: Email problems
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 09:17 +0100, Alex Smith wrote: > bham.ac.uk is having email problems at the moment; I can send emails, > but haven't been able to receive any since about 13:00UTC on Friday. > I've been reading Agora email since by looking at TNP2's inbox (thanks, > TNP2, for that), but this means I won't have received any messages sent > to me privately. This definitely has a large chance of skewing the > Enigma results for this week; I'll wait a while before calculating > publishing them just in case there have been entries that have been sent > to me and I didn't receive and which will come through some time in the > near future (hopefully it will have been fixed by then, I don't know for > certain). > > As a backup, just in case, I'd like to ask anyone who's privately sent > me an email to also send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED], which is receiving > for the time being. (However, Normish seems to be spam-blacklisted for > some unknown reason; therefore, I can't send from it in such a way that > other people will receive. This has been known to cause the mailing > lists to stop sending to it before (it happened to the PNP, for > instance), so it's possible even this method for accessing the fora will > be cut off to me.) This goes particularly for Enigma entries; there are > still a few hours left to submit a solution even if you haven't yet, but > even if you have sent a solution by email, I suggest resending it to > ensure that I don't miss it. The wording of Enigma implies that entries > don't count at all if they don't reach me somehow, but I think that > would be unfair to the contestants; if necessary, I'll call an equity > case against Enigma in order to allow me to award points for correct > entries that I didn't receive on time, but as long as the originals come > through in the next week, that won't be necessary. (I'll use the TDOC > test to determine when they were sent, btw, so nobody think of > falsifying date headers for this...) It seems that they've fixed it, and most if not all of the messages sent in the meantime arrived simultaneously. I can't be certain that private messages sent to me arrived, though. -- ais523
Re: DIS: PBA question
On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 00:09 +0100, Elliott Hird wrote: > On 19 Oct 2008, at 23:52, Ian Kelly wrote: > > The number in circulation should be equal to the number required to > > withdraw everything. If there are extra coins in circulation, the > > excess are worthless. If there are insufficient coins in circulation, > > then the coinholders have lost value. > > > > -root > > So let's trash them, then. > Agreed; the whole point behind the method of operation of the PBA depends on it not creating or destroying coins except in exchange for assets. The coins in the PBA itself make a nice little indication of how well it's doing, but shouldn't really be used for anything. (Not even robbing the RBoA, nice-sounding as that seems...) Destroying them, or leaving them there looking pretty, seem like the best options. -- ais523
Re: DIS: Proto-contract: The Agoran Fast Food Society
On Sun, 2008-10-19 at 12:39 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 11:12 AM, warrigal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > A Potato is any string whose SHA-523 hash > > I don't think I've heard of that one... > > -root Neither have I, but I'm going to have to invent it now, given my name. Another time, though, perhaps. -- ais523
