DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Silver Quill for the Agoran Year ending on October 31, 2016

[Kerim Aydin]

> I hereby initiate an Agoran Decision for the Silver Quill 2016. The vote 
> collector 
> is the Herald and the options are any proposals adopted between November 1, 
> 2015 
> and October 31, 2016 (inclusive).

A very slow year.

Here's the full list I think.  I think 7815 (Agencies) is a strong contender.
7812 (persons can win) is a deep change - first time non-player winnings has
ever been allowed - but not much game effect as of yet.

*7794  Murphy 1.2  Organization cleanup
*7795  aranea 1.2  Income Cap
*7797  Henri  1.0  Salary
*7800  Henri  1.0  Motion of No Confidence
*7801  G. 1.0  Automatic Trust
*7803  G. 2.0  Self-service judiciary
*7804  nichdel3.0  Fixed Easier Deputisation
*7805  nichdel1.0  The Reportor
*7806  G. 1.0  Uprooting
*7807  aranea 2.0  s/I(?=ADoP)//
*7808  G. 3.0  Win at any Power
*7809  G. 1.0  Quill and Tournaments
*7810  nichdel3.0  Cleerer Registrar Responsibilities
*7811  ais523 1.0  Winning by apathy
*7812  G. 3.0  Persons Can Win
*​7813  aranea, G.  1.0  No Dungeon​
*​7814 o  3.0  FOR Require Intent on Ballots
*7815+ Alexis, aranea3.0  Agencies
*7816+ Alexis, o, aranea 3.0  Voting Strength Fix (PENDING, BUGGY)
*7817+ aranea2.0  Prime Minister Voting Strength
*7818  ais523 1.0  Make Spending Power More Useful

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Silver Quill for the Agoran Year ending on October 31, 2016

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

This conditional requires undue effort to determine and will therefore not be 
accepted without further illumination of information.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Jun 2, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Quazie  wrote:
> 
> I vote for the proposal that changed the most rules.
> 
> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:42 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
>  wrote:
> I hereby initiate an Agoran Decision for the Silver Quill 2016. The vote 
> collector is the Herald and the options are any proposals adopted between 
> November 1, 2015 and October 31, 2016 (inclusive).
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Surveyor] June Estate Auction

[Quazie]

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 07:16 Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017, Josh T wrote:
> > I place a bid on Antegria equal to my entire balance of Shinies when the
> > time of the closure of the bid.
>
> In the last few weeks, the assumptions seem to have been made that there
> is support for future conditionals in the rules.  There isn't (except for
> votes).
>
> Quazie delivered a judgement (3505), that gives very *narrow* support
> for allowing it under limited conditions, while noting that it *mostly*
> wasn't ok:
> > I agree, there's a long standing tradition (Potentially established/
> > enforced through CFJ 3381 or CFJ 2926, this information gathering is
> > left up to the reader) that future conditional actions aren't valid, and
> > I will uphold that logic for most cases.
>
> As should be obvious from the above bid, willy-nilly allowing of future
> conditions screws up a LOT of mechanics; Auctions are a prime example.
>
> At this point, I'd suggest legislation, stating that unless specified
> otherwise for specific types of actions (e.g. votes), conditionals
> must be clearly resolvable, with publicly available information, without
> unreasonable effort, at the time they are made.this
>



Feel free to make the boo agency and use my body to pen this rule.


>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Surveyor] June Estate Auction

[Josh T]

I really shouldn't be making Agora actions at 5AM before going to bed when
I can't English anyways. I tend to forget basic things.

天火狐

On 2 June 2017 at 13:48, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017, Josh T wrote:
> > I retract any previous "bid" I made on the Estate of Antegria.
>
> I should say I wasn't picking on you specifically; I think I noticed
> a couple other attempts like this recently :).
>
>
>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Surveyor] June Estate Auction

[Kerim Aydin]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2017, Josh T wrote:
> I retract any previous "bid" I made on the Estate of Antegria.

I should say I wasn't picking on you specifically; I think I noticed
a couple other attempts like this recently :).

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Filling the Reportor office

[Quazie]

Until I started doing the ADoP report I had it wrong too.

No worries
On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 04:05 Martin Rönsch  wrote:

> Thanks for noticing.
> I had the definition of a week wrong.
>
> Veggiekeks
>
>
> Am 01.06.2017 um 15:52 schrieb Quazie:
>
> It actually isn't possible until it's late - you can't deputize until
> Monday. (As the person who is aiming to deputize for ADOP I'm very aware of
> the current lateness of any given report).
>
> To prove it: A weekly report is due each week.  The reportor posted a
> newspaper on the 24th (Last week) so they aren't late until they haven't
> posted this week.
>
> More info (unofficially):
> https://agoranomic.github.io/ADoP/Reports/next.txt
>
> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 03:17 Martin Rönsch 
> wrote:
>
>> I announce my intent to deputize for the office of Reportor.
>>
>> As the office is currently vacant and the report is due, this should be
>> possible even without announcing beforehand. But I wanted to give people
>> a chance to object. If noone does so, I will publish a newspaper tomorrow.
>>
>> Veggiekeks
>>
>>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Surveyor] June Estate Auction

[Kerim Aydin]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2017, Josh T wrote:
> I place a bid on Antegria equal to my entire balance of Shinies when the 
> time of the closure of the bid.

In the last few weeks, the assumptions seem to have been made that there 
is support for future conditionals in the rules.  There isn't (except for
votes).

Quazie delivered a judgement (3505), that gives very *narrow* support
for allowing it under limited conditions, while noting that it *mostly*
wasn't ok:
> I agree, there's a long standing tradition (Potentially established/
> enforced through CFJ 3381 or CFJ 2926, this information gathering is
> left up to the reader) that future conditional actions aren't valid, and
> I will uphold that logic for most cases.

As should be obvious from the above bid, willy-nilly allowing of future
conditions screws up a LOT of mechanics; Auctions are a prime example.

At this point, I'd suggest legislation, stating that unless specified
otherwise for specific types of actions (e.g. votes), conditionals 
must be clearly resolvable, with publicly available information, without
unreasonable effort, at the time they are made.

Re: DIS: Ideas for a stock market

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

I don’t like the requirement for further investment for losses because that 
isn’t how things work, but maybe each fond has a budget that increases as 
players buy shares from Agora and profits, but decreases from losses.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Jun 2, 2017, at 7:05 AM, Martin Rönsch  wrote:
> 
> Some people have shown interest in a stock market and the Idea of combining 
> it with ownership of rules has also been mentioned. I think this is very 
> interesting, so here are my ideas for such a stock market.
> They are not in form suited to submit as proposal yet, because this would be 
> my first attempt at writing a rule and I'm not sure on how to implement 
> various things yet. Also I want to wait for Aris' proposal on assets to make 
> the stock market compatible with that.
> Anyway, here's how i imagined the stock market:
> 
> 
> Up to five rules can be grouped into a rules fonds.
> For each fonds, there are shares. I think a fixed number of 100 shares per 
> fonds should work fine.
> Players can simply create fonds by announcement from rules that do not belong 
> to any fonds.
> Fonds with no shares in circulation can be destroyed so that the rules 
> belonging to it can be redistributed to other fonds.
> 
> Shares can be initially bought from Agora for a fixed price (Power of all 
> rules belonging to the fonds added together = price of one share in Shinies).
> Players and organizations are then free to trade shares between each other.
> 
> Once a month the fonds makes profits or losses.
> The fonds makes losses if no rule belonging to it has ben created, amended or 
> cited in the ruling of a CFJ.
> The fonds make profits if more than half of the rules belonging to the fonds 
> have been created, amended or cited in the ruling of a CFJ.
> If there are profits, the shareholders get paid from Agora (a percentage of 
> the initial price of their shares?)
> If there are losses, the shareholdes have to invest additional capital, or 
> lose their shares in the fonds.
> 
> I think players who own no shares at all should be able to claim some amount 
> of shares for free, to get things started.
> 
> There probably needs to be an Officer who keeps track of existing fonds and 
> who owns shares of them.
> 
> 
> I'd very much like any feedback on this. I have begun to codify these ideas 
> into a rule, but it's not very refined yet, as this is my first attempt to 
> write a rule.
> 
> Veggiekeks

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Filling the Reportor office

[Martin Rönsch]

Thanks for noticing.
I had the definition of a week wrong.

Veggiekeks

Am 01.06.2017 um 15:52 schrieb Quazie:
It actually isn't possible until it's late - you can't deputize until 
Monday. (As the person who is aiming to deputize for ADOP I'm very 
aware of the current lateness of any given report).


To prove it: A weekly report is due each week.  The reportor posted a 
newspaper on the 24th (Last week) so they aren't late until they 
haven't posted this week.


More info (unofficially): 
https://agoranomic.github.io/ADoP/Reports/next.txt


On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 03:17 Martin Rönsch > wrote:


I announce my intent to deputize for the office of Reportor.

As the office is currently vacant and the report is due, this
should be
possible even without announcing beforehand. But I wanted to give
people
a chance to object. If noone does so, I will publish a newspaper
tomorrow.

Veggiekeks

DIS: Ideas for a stock market

[Martin Rönsch]

Some people have shown interest in a stock market and the Idea of 
combining it with ownership of rules has also been mentioned. I think 
this is very interesting, so here are my ideas for such a stock market.
They are not in form suited to submit as proposal yet, because this 
would be my first attempt at writing a rule and I'm not sure on how to 
implement various things yet. Also I want to wait for Aris' proposal on 
assets to make the stock market compatible with that.

Anyway, here's how i imagined the stock market:


Up to five rules can be grouped into a rules fonds.
For each fonds, there are shares. I think a fixed number of 100 shares 
per fonds should work fine.
Players can simply create fonds by announcement from rules that do not 
belong to any fonds.
Fonds with no shares in circulation can be destroyed so that the rules 
belonging to it can be redistributed to other fonds.


Shares can be initially bought from Agora for a fixed price (Power of 
all rules belonging to the fonds added together = price of one share in 
Shinies).

Players and organizations are then free to trade shares between each other.

Once a month the fonds makes profits or losses.
The fonds makes losses if no rule belonging to it has ben created, 
amended or cited in the ruling of a CFJ.
The fonds make profits if more than half of the rules belonging to the 
fonds have been created, amended or cited in the ruling of a CFJ.
If there are profits, the shareholders get paid from Agora (a percentage 
of the initial price of their shares?)
If there are losses, the shareholdes have to invest additional capital, 
or lose their shares in the fonds.


I think players who own no shares at all should be able to claim some 
amount of shares for free, to get things started.


There probably needs to be an Officer who keeps track of existing fonds 
and who owns shares of them.



I'd very much like any feedback on this. I have begun to codify these 
ideas into a rule, but it's not very refined yet, as this is my first 
attempt to write a rule.


Veggiekeks

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [ADoP] Initiating Elections Again (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

Sorry about this, my email reader displayed things in a weird order.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Jun 2, 2017, at 6:40 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
>  wrote:
> 
> Still NttPF.
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 1, 2017, at 9:44 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>> 
>> I vote as follows:
>>> I initiate an election for Referee, as there has been no election since the
>>> last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Referee. For
>>> this decision, the vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the
>>> players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).
>> o.
>>> I initiate an election for Associate Director of Personnel, as there has
>>> been no election since the last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to
>>> determine the new Associate Director of Personnel. For this decision, the
>>> vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the players
>>> (PRESENT is also a valid vote).
>> nichdel.
>>> I initiate an election for Registrar, as there has been no election since 
>>> the
>>> last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Registrar. For
>>> this decision, the vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the
>>> players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).
>> Quazie, followed by Publius Scribonius Scholasticus.
>> 
>> -o
>> 
> 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [ADoP] Initiating Elections Again (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

Still NttPF.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Jun 1, 2017, at 9:44 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> 
> I vote as follows:
>> I initiate an election for Referee, as there has been no election since the
>> last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Referee. For
>> this decision, the vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the
>> players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).
> o.
>> I initiate an election for Associate Director of Personnel, as there has
>> been no election since the last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to
>> determine the new Associate Director of Personnel. For this decision, the
>> vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the players
>> (PRESENT is also a valid vote).
> nichdel.
>> I initiate an election for Registrar, as there has been no election since the
>> last win. I initiate the Agoran decision to determine the new Registrar. For
>> this decision, the vote collector is the ADoP and the valid options are the
>> players (PRESENT is also a valid vote).
> Quazie, followed by Publius Scribonius Scholasticus.
> 
> -o
>