Re: DIS: The Very Worst Thing That Could Possibly Happen (Attn. Distributor)

[Aris Merchant via agora-discussion]

*slaps head*

Okay, that makes my prophecy quite a bit less terrifying, now doesn't
it. I don't know how I never thought of that. I've been worrying about
this for literally years. It goes back pretty far, though it's hard to
tell how far (it only goes to 15 pages of results by date for each
list, despite having more). However, it's a lot less convenient IMO
then the archives (better if you want to search, but it's harder to
get a picture of what's going on). So losing access to the main
archives would still be bad, but I'm not sure if it would be bad
enough to justify the thesis.

By the way, I won't be offended at all if this never gets a thesis. I
do have future plans for other theses, I just thought this might get
me my A.N.

-Aris

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 10:12 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion
 wrote:
>
> Speaking of which, last I checked, the link (at the top of the mailman 
> archive) to download the full archive is broken.
>
> In terms of your actual thesis, it’s worth mentioning that mail-archive.org 
>  would also have to go down (although I’m not sure 
> how far it’s history goes).
>
> Gaelan
>
> > On Jan 27, 2020, at 9:59 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-discussion 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Agora has been around a very long time, and it looks like it’ll be around
> > much longer. That means that, someday, inevitably, my worst nightmare will
> > come true. Unless we do something to stop it.
> >
> > A Prophecy of Doom
> >
> > One day, all of a sudden, the lists fail. The archives go down with them.
> > An Agoran quickly notices and alerts the backup list, unless by some
> > terrible twist of fate that is down too, in which case e sends their
> > message directly to every player listed in the last Registrar’s report
> > (plus any new arrivals). E contacts the Distributor as well, informing em
> > of what has taken place.
> >
> > Everyone waits, at first with patience, then with annoyance, and then with
> > fear. They wait for the Distributor to respond. Days pass. Then a week.
> > More emails are sent. Finally, someone says “E’s never going to respond, is
> > e?” The Speaker sends out a message, claiming that as the figurehead leader
> > of all Agora, e should assume control. The Prime Minister, a popular
> > newcomer who has been recently elected to the office and has little
> > experience, quickly agrees.
> >
> > Orders are sent out. New lists are to be established. Recent reports are to
> > be copied from mailboxes or officer’s archives. The gamestate is to be
> > reconstructed. A new Distributor is to be chosen.
> >
> > Eventually, it is all set up. Everything runs again. Except for one thing.
> > The archives, containing everything that has happened in Agoran history
> > since 2002, are gone. The past soon turns to legend, with older players
> > recounting stories to the newcomers, and upon occasion searching their
> > inboxes for aged texts, relics of a past almost forgotten. Perhaps some old
> > backups are found, but they are years out of date. Much of Agoran history
> > is still lost, like that of the days before 2002 is now.
> >
> > The End
> >
> > To the best of my knowledge, we have no contingency plans for preserving
> > Agoran history in such an eventuality. Our Distributor is amazing, but
> > sooner or later e will die, and that death may come before e has
> > transferred control of the archives to a successor. Perhaps e even has
> > backups in secure locations, and has left instructions for what to do with
> > them, but what if a fire destroys all copies, or some other grave
> > misfortune occurs?
> >
> > I believe that this eventuality is the worst thing that could ever happen
> > to Agora. Even if the game were somehow ossified, we could fix it with a
> > hard fork. It’s questionable whether the new game would still really be
> > Agora, but it would be close enough. However, we have no redundancy to keep
> > our history, our most prized treasure, safe. I think we should do something
> > about that. I don’t know what.
> >
> > -Aris
>

Re: DIS: The Very Worst Thing That Could Possibly Happen (Attn. Distributor)

[Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion]

Speaking of which, last I checked, the link (at the top of the mailman archive) 
to download the full archive is broken.

In terms of your actual thesis, it’s worth mentioning that mail-archive.org 
 would also have to go down (although I’m not sure 
how far it’s history goes).

Gaelan

> On Jan 27, 2020, at 9:59 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-discussion 
>  wrote:
> 
> Agora has been around a very long time, and it looks like it’ll be around
> much longer. That means that, someday, inevitably, my worst nightmare will
> come true. Unless we do something to stop it.
> 
> A Prophecy of Doom
> 
> One day, all of a sudden, the lists fail. The archives go down with them.
> An Agoran quickly notices and alerts the backup list, unless by some
> terrible twist of fate that is down too, in which case e sends their
> message directly to every player listed in the last Registrar’s report
> (plus any new arrivals). E contacts the Distributor as well, informing em
> of what has taken place.
> 
> Everyone waits, at first with patience, then with annoyance, and then with
> fear. They wait for the Distributor to respond. Days pass. Then a week.
> More emails are sent. Finally, someone says “E’s never going to respond, is
> e?” The Speaker sends out a message, claiming that as the figurehead leader
> of all Agora, e should assume control. The Prime Minister, a popular
> newcomer who has been recently elected to the office and has little
> experience, quickly agrees.
> 
> Orders are sent out. New lists are to be established. Recent reports are to
> be copied from mailboxes or officer’s archives. The gamestate is to be
> reconstructed. A new Distributor is to be chosen.
> 
> Eventually, it is all set up. Everything runs again. Except for one thing.
> The archives, containing everything that has happened in Agoran history
> since 2002, are gone. The past soon turns to legend, with older players
> recounting stories to the newcomers, and upon occasion searching their
> inboxes for aged texts, relics of a past almost forgotten. Perhaps some old
> backups are found, but they are years out of date. Much of Agoran history
> is still lost, like that of the days before 2002 is now.
> 
> The End
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, we have no contingency plans for preserving
> Agoran history in such an eventuality. Our Distributor is amazing, but
> sooner or later e will die, and that death may come before e has
> transferred control of the archives to a successor. Perhaps e even has
> backups in secure locations, and has left instructions for what to do with
> them, but what if a fire destroys all copies, or some other grave
> misfortune occurs?
> 
> I believe that this eventuality is the worst thing that could ever happen
> to Agora. Even if the game were somehow ossified, we could fix it with a
> hard fork. It’s questionable whether the new game would still really be
> Agora, but it would be close enough. However, we have no redundancy to keep
> our history, our most prized treasure, safe. I think we should do something
> about that. I don’t know what.
> 
> -Aris

DIS: The Very Worst Thing That Could Possibly Happen (Attn. Distributor)

[Aris Merchant via agora-discussion]

Agora has been around a very long time, and it looks like it’ll be around
much longer. That means that, someday, inevitably, my worst nightmare will
come true. Unless we do something to stop it.

A Prophecy of Doom

One day, all of a sudden, the lists fail. The archives go down with them.
An Agoran quickly notices and alerts the backup list, unless by some
terrible twist of fate that is down too, in which case e sends their
message directly to every player listed in the last Registrar’s report
(plus any new arrivals). E contacts the Distributor as well, informing em
of what has taken place.

Everyone waits, at first with patience, then with annoyance, and then with
fear. They wait for the Distributor to respond. Days pass. Then a week.
More emails are sent. Finally, someone says “E’s never going to respond, is
e?” The Speaker sends out a message, claiming that as the figurehead leader
of all Agora, e should assume control. The Prime Minister, a popular
newcomer who has been recently elected to the office and has little
experience, quickly agrees.

Orders are sent out. New lists are to be established. Recent reports are to
be copied from mailboxes or officer’s archives. The gamestate is to be
reconstructed. A new Distributor is to be chosen.

Eventually, it is all set up. Everything runs again. Except for one thing.
The archives, containing everything that has happened in Agoran history
since 2002, are gone. The past soon turns to legend, with older players
recounting stories to the newcomers, and upon occasion searching their
inboxes for aged texts, relics of a past almost forgotten. Perhaps some old
backups are found, but they are years out of date. Much of Agoran history
is still lost, like that of the days before 2002 is now.

The End

To the best of my knowledge, we have no contingency plans for preserving
Agoran history in such an eventuality. Our Distributor is amazing, but
sooner or later e will die, and that death may come before e has
transferred control of the archives to a successor. Perhaps e even has
backups in secure locations, and has left instructions for what to do with
them, but what if a fire destroys all copies, or some other grave
misfortune occurs?

I believe that this eventuality is the worst thing that could ever happen
to Agora. Even if the game were somehow ossified, we could fix it with a
hard fork. It’s questionable whether the new game would still really be
Agora, but it would be close enough. However, we have no redundancy to keep
our history, our most prized treasure, safe. I think we should do something
about that. I don’t know what.

-Aris

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Editorial Guidelines

[Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion]

This is a good point. Suggested reword: {
The singular non-gendered pronoun is "e" in the nominative, and "em" in
the accusative. Do not use "he/him/his," or "she/her/her,” or “they/them/their”
as a singular pronoun when referring to a person of unknown gender.
}

Personally, I’m vaguely of the opinion that we should switch to they/them 
instead of Spivak in general. Our use of Spivak now feels like using Betamax in 
1990—sure, it was probably better, but the other one won and it’s silly to keep 
doing our own thing. That being said, I know this is probably an unpopular 
opinion (and I know there are some reasonable arguments in favor of Spivak, 
such as support for legal persons).

Gaelan

> On Jan 27, 2020, at 8:04 PM, Tanner Swett via agora-discussion 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 18:43 Jason Cobb via agora-business <
> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> 
>> [Informal title: "Pronouns"]
>> 
>> {
>> 
>> The singular non-gendered pronoun is "e" in the nominative, and "em" in
>> the accusative. Do not use "they" as a singular pronoun. Do not use
>> "he/him/his" or "she/her/her" as a singular pronoun when referring to a
>> person of unknown gender.
>> 
>> }
>> 
> 
> I informally object. I agree that we should use e/em as the generic
> third-person singular pronoun (as we have been doing for decades), but when
> rules refer to specific individuals (which is uncommon but not all *that*
> rare), there's no reason at all to proscribe using "they" for a particular
> individual if that's the pronoun that they prefer to use in such contexts.
> 
> —Warrigal
> 
>> 

DIS: Re: BUS: Editorial Guidelines

[Tanner Swett via agora-discussion]

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 18:43 Jason Cobb via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> [Informal title: "Pronouns"]
>
> {
>
> The singular non-gendered pronoun is "e" in the nominative, and "em" in
> the accusative. Do not use "they" as a singular pronoun. Do not use
> "he/him/his" or "she/her/her" as a singular pronoun when referring to a
> person of unknown gender.
>
> }
>

I informally object. I agree that we should use e/em as the generic
third-person singular pronoun (as we have been doing for decades), but when
rules refer to specific individuals (which is uncommon but not all *that*
rare), there's no reason at all to proscribe using "they" for a particular
individual if that's the pronoun that they prefer to use in such contexts.

—Warrigal

>