DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald] The Scroll of Agora, Nov 2021

[nix via agora-discussion]

On 11/13/21 6:41 PM, Ørjan Johansen wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Nov 2021, nix via agora-official wrote:
>
>> ===
>>    THE SCROLL OF AGORA
>>      ===
> [snip]
>>    ---
>>    NEWS
>>    ---
>>
>>      Name for tris' titles updated.
> Assuming I'm interpreting correctly, you missed one.
>
> [snip]
>>   Badge of the Great Agoran Revival [May 2017]
>>    (awarded to Agoran persons from May 2017)
>>   tmanthe2nd, G., CuddleBeam, Ienpw III, nix, Alexis,
>>   o, Ørjan, Aris, Murphy, Quazie,
>>   Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Sprocklem, Veggiekeks,
>>   Roujo, ais523, Gaelan, 天火狐, grok
> [snip]
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.

Good catch, fixed on the online version and will be fixed in the next
report. Thanks!

--
nix
Herald

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Stonemason] November Stone Auction Distribution

[Ørjan Johansen via agora-discussion]

On Mon, 15 Nov 2021, ais523 via agora-business wrote:


On Mon, 2021-11-15 at 15:38 -0500, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:

On 11/15/21 15:36, Jason Cobb via agora-official wrote:

I perform the following actions if and only if they all succeed:

{

I destroy 150 of Jason's coins.

I cause the Hot Potato Stone to be transferred to Jason.

}


I wield the Hot Potato stone, transferring it to ais523 (since I
prevented eir wealth stone from being protected).



CFJ: Jason has wielded the Hot Potato stone.

Evidence:

Excerpt from rule 2545 (power 2):
{{{
 The rule that authorizes the auction further authorizes the
 auctioneer or auction winners to transfer said items as necessary
 to conduct the auction in a manner consistent with the auction
 method.
}}}

Excerpt from rule 2642 (power 2):
{{{
 The Stonemason CAN initiate an auction for any set of stones
 belonging to Agora for which an auction is not ongoing, with each
 individual stone being an auction lot. The Stonemason is the
 auctioneer, and the currency is coins.
}}}

Excerpt from rule 2645 (power 2):
{{{
 - Hot Potato Stone (Weekly, 100%):  When this stone is wielded,
   the wielder gains 8 boatloads of coins if the wielder, in the
   same message as the wielding, transfers this stone to a player
   who has not owned this stone since Agora last owned it. This
   stone cannot otherwise be transferred, other rules
   notwithstanding.
}}}

Arguments: The transfer of the Hot Potato stone to Jason during the
auction resolution was impossible. There's a contradiction between
rules about whether the transfer is possible; rules 2545 and 2642
attempt to make it possible, but rule 2645 attempts to make it
impossible. Rule 2645 contains an "other rules notwithstanding", so by
rule 1030, it wins the contradiction and prevents the transfer taking
place.

This is probably a bug (and I only just noticed it, or I'd have
mentioned it earlier).


I think this bug has a loophole which allows Jason an even better way out, 
if e can see it :)


Greetings,
Ørjan.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Mad Engineer weekly random rule selection

[ais523 via agora-discussion]

On Tue, 2021-11-16 at 10:42 +1100, Sarah S. via agora-discussion wrote:
> "   The Arbitor is an office, responsible for the administration of
>   justice in a manner that is fair for the Device, if not for the rest
>   of Agora."

Sadly, that replaces a pronoun rather than a noun.

-- 
ais523
Mad Engineer

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Mad Engineer weekly random rule selection

[Sarah S. via agora-discussion]

"   The Arbitor is an office, responsible for the administration of
  justice in a manner that is fair for the Device, if not for the rest
  of Agora."

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 4:25 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

>
> On 11/15/2021 8:48 AM, Trigon via agora-discussion wrote:
> > El 15/11/2021 a las 15:02, ais523 via agora-discussion escribió:
> >> On Mon, 2021-11-15 at 16:00 +0100, nethack4.org dicebot via agora-
> >> business wrote:
> >>
> >> Lots of nice short sentences here, so it may well be possible to come
> >> up with something that works quite well.
> >>
> >
> > Suggestions:
> >
> > (1) funny, but may take a lot of upkeep from officers
> >> When an open device's judge is unassigned, the Arbitor CAN assign any
> >> eligible player to be its judge by announcement, and SHALL do so in a >
> timely fashion after it becomes an open and unassigned device.
> >
> > (2) similar appeal, but less upkeep
> >> If a device has no judge assigned, then any player eligible to judge >
> that device CAN assign it to emself without 3 objections.
> >
> > either of these could lead to fun CFJs.
> >
>
> If these are implemented, I wonder if we could make the argument that the
> device has a whole separate judicial process for determining how it works.
>  I think this could be done in common law - i.e. if something like the
> above is inserted (either option), an actual CFJ about the device could be
> judged "DISMISS - ask the device's assigned judge instead" to set the
> precedent.
>
> -G.
>
>

-- 
--
R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Mad Engineer weekly random rule selection

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

On 11/15/2021 8:48 AM, Trigon via agora-discussion wrote:
> El 15/11/2021 a las 15:02, ais523 via agora-discussion escribió:
>> On Mon, 2021-11-15 at 16:00 +0100, nethack4.org dicebot via agora-
>> business wrote:
>>
>> Lots of nice short sentences here, so it may well be possible to come
>> up with something that works quite well.
>>
> 
> Suggestions:
> 
> (1) funny, but may take a lot of upkeep from officers
>> When an open device's judge is unassigned, the Arbitor CAN assign any
>> eligible player to be its judge by announcement, and SHALL do so in a > 
>> timely fashion after it becomes an open and unassigned device.
> 
> (2) similar appeal, but less upkeep
>> If a device has no judge assigned, then any player eligible to judge > that 
>> device CAN assign it to emself without 3 objections.
> 
> either of these could lead to fun CFJs.
> 

If these are implemented, I wonder if we could make the argument that the
device has a whole separate judicial process for determining how it works.
 I think this could be done in common law - i.e. if something like the
above is inserted (either option), an actual CFJ about the device could be
judged "DISMISS - ask the device's assigned judge instead" to set the
precedent.

-G.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Mad Engineer weekly random rule selection

[Trigon via agora-discussion]

El 15/11/2021 a las 15:02, ais523 via agora-discussion escribió:

On Mon, 2021-11-15 at 16:00 +0100, nethack4.org dicebot via agora-
business wrote:

Lots of nice short sentences here, so it may well be possible to come
up with something that works quite well.



Suggestions:

(1) funny, but may take a lot of upkeep from officers

When an open device's judge is unassigned, the Arbitor CAN assign any
eligible player to be its judge by announcement, and SHALL do so in a > timely 
fashion after it becomes an open and unassigned device.


(2) similar appeal, but less upkeep

If a device has no judge assigned, then any player eligible to judge > that 
device CAN assign it to emself without 3 objections.


either of these could lead to fun CFJs.

--
Trigon

 ¸¸.•*¨*• Play AGORA QUEST





I’m always happy to become a party to contracts.
I LOVE SPAGHETTI
transfer Jason one coin
nch was here
I hereby
don't... trust... the dragon...
don't... trust... the dragon...
Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Mad Engineer weekly random rule selection

[ATMunn via agora-discussion]

On 11/15/2021 10:02, ais523 via agora-discussion wrote:

On Mon, 2021-11-15 at 16:00 +0100, nethack4.org dicebot via agora-
business wrote:

This is R991, Calls for Judgement.


For reference:
{{{
   Any person (the initiator) can initiate a Call for Judgement (CFJ,
   syn. Judicial Case), specifying a statement to be inquired into by
   announcement.
   
   When a person initiates a Call for Judgement, e CAN optionally bar

   one person from the case by announcement.
   
   At any time, each CFJ is either open (default), suspended, or

   assigned exactly one judgement that was validly assigned.
   
   The Arbitor is an office, responsible for the administration of

   justice in a manner that is fair for emself, if not for the rest
   of Agora.
   
   Judge is an untracked CFJ switch with possible values of any

   person or former person, or "unassigned" (default). To "assign" a
   CFJ to a person is to flip that CFJ's judge to that person.  To
   "remove" or "recuse" a person from a being the judge of a CFJ is
   to flip that CFJ's judge from that person to unassigned.
   
   When an open CFJ's judge is unassigned, the Arbitor CAN assign any

   eligible player to be its judge by announcement, and SHALL do so
   in a timely fashion after it becomes an open and unassigned CFJ.
   The players eligible to be assigned as judge are all active
   players except the initiator and the person barred (if any). The
   Arbitor SHALL assign judges over time such that all interested
   players have reasonably equal opportunities to judge.  If a CFJ
   has no judge assigned, then any player eligible to judge that CFJ
   CAN assign it to emself without 3 objections.
   
   The Arbitor's weekly report includes a summary of recent judicial

   case activity, including open and recently-judged cases, recent
   judicial assignments, and a list of players interested in judging.
}}}

Lots of nice short sentences here, so it may well be possible to come
up with something that works quite well.



A few (mediocre) suggestions:

"At any time, each device is either open (default), suspended, or
assigned exactly one judgement that was validly assigned."

"If a device has no judge assigned, then any player eligible to judge
that device CAN assign it to emself without 3 objections."

--
ATMunn
friendly neighborhood notary :)

DIS: Re: BUS: Mad Engineer weekly random rule selection

[ais523 via agora-discussion]

On Mon, 2021-11-15 at 16:00 +0100, nethack4.org dicebot via agora-
business wrote:
> This is R991, Calls for Judgement.

For reference:
{{{
  Any person (the initiator) can initiate a Call for Judgement (CFJ,
  syn. Judicial Case), specifying a statement to be inquired into by
  announcement.
  
  When a person initiates a Call for Judgement, e CAN optionally bar
  one person from the case by announcement.
  
  At any time, each CFJ is either open (default), suspended, or
  assigned exactly one judgement that was validly assigned.
  
  The Arbitor is an office, responsible for the administration of
  justice in a manner that is fair for emself, if not for the rest
  of Agora.
  
  Judge is an untracked CFJ switch with possible values of any
  person or former person, or "unassigned" (default). To "assign" a
  CFJ to a person is to flip that CFJ's judge to that person.  To
  "remove" or "recuse" a person from a being the judge of a CFJ is
  to flip that CFJ's judge from that person to unassigned.
  
  When an open CFJ's judge is unassigned, the Arbitor CAN assign any
  eligible player to be its judge by announcement, and SHALL do so
  in a timely fashion after it becomes an open and unassigned CFJ.
  The players eligible to be assigned as judge are all active
  players except the initiator and the person barred (if any). The
  Arbitor SHALL assign judges over time such that all interested
  players have reasonably equal opportunities to judge.  If a CFJ
  has no judge assigned, then any player eligible to judge that CFJ
  CAN assign it to emself without 3 objections.
  
  The Arbitor's weekly report includes a summary of recent judicial
  case activity, including open and recently-judged cases, recent
  judicial assignments, and a list of players interested in judging.
}}}

Lots of nice short sentences here, so it may well be possible to come
up with something that works quite well.

-- 
ais523
Mad Engineer