Re: DIS: Bleach, what is it good for?

[Kerim Aydin]

On Fri, 19 May 2017, Quazie wrote:
> But as insignificant isn't defined, it doesn't seem like the rulekeepor 
> can make changes to rules, including insignificant ones. 

The "fun" of pretending to be a system of judges of lawyers is to come up with
evolving precedents for terms-of-art that have common definitions.  
"significant",
"reasonable", "arbitrary", "generally", "clearly", "random", etc.  It doesn't
always pay to be too prescriptive about such things.

Re: DIS: Bleach, what is it good for?

[Alex Smith]

On Fri, 2017-05-19 at 21:07 +, Quazie wrote:
> But as insignificant isn't defined, it doesn't seem like the
> rulekeepor can make changes to rules, including insignificant ones.

It's not about being able to /change/ the rule; it's about being able
to legally /misquote/ it. In particular, the Rulekeepor can change the
whitespace in the FLR/SLR so that it doesn't match the original
statement of the rule, without any problems doing so. (In fact, I take
the Bleach rule to imply that the amount of whitespace isn't even part
of the rule, just the positions of whitespace within the rule.)

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Bleach, what is it good for?

[Alex Smith]

On Fri, 2017-05-19 at 20:45 +, Quazie wrote:
> I was looking at the following rule when trying to determine if the
> spacing within a submitted proposal can be modified by the
> rulekeepor.
> 
> Rule 2429/1 (Power=1)
> Bleach
> 
>   Replacing a non-zero amount of whitespace with a different
>   non-zero amount of whitespace is generally insignificant,
> except
>   for paragraph breaks.
> 
> History:
> Created by Proposal 7665 (scshunt), 3 June 2014
> Amended(1) by Proposal 7709 (Murphy), 3 November 2014
> 
> The rule seems useless to me - insignificant isn't defined or even
> used within the rules anywhere.

It's so if, for example, a proposal requests a change to a specific
section of a rule, and quotes that section but with lines wrapped in
different places, the change can go through. "Insignificant" has its
normal English meaning of "not significant" or "irrelevant".

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Bleach, what is it good for?

[Quazie]

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:05 PM Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 19 May 2017, Quazie wrote:
> > I was looking at the following rule when trying to determine if the
> spacing within a submitted proposal can be modified by the rulekeepor.
> >
> > Rule 2429/1 (Power=1)
> > Bleach
> >
> >   Replacing a non-zero amount of whitespace with a different
> >   non-zero amount of whitespace is generally insignificant, except
> >   for paragraph breaks.
> >
> > History:
> > Created by Proposal 7665 (scshunt), 3 June 2014
> > Amended(1) by Proposal 7709 (Murphy), 3 November 2014
> > The rule seems useless to me - insignificant isn't defined or even used
> within the rules anywhere.
>
> I think there's a CFJ where the Rulekeepor cited Bleach and published a
> report that
> looked like this:
> "AgoraisagameofNomic,whereinPersons,actinginaccordancewiththeRule..."
> That's why the "non-zero" is now in there, I think that was Murphy's
> amendment that
> resulted from that CFJ...
>
> It's useful for things like changing indentation amounts, or deciding if
> there's one
> space or two following a period. (though that's a holy war right there - I
> don't think
> that's consistent ATM).
>

But as insignificant isn't defined, it doesn't seem like the rulekeepor can
make changes to rules, including insignificant ones.

Re: DIS: Bleach, what is it good for?

[Josh T]

Bleach is good as a whitening and cleaning agent .

On a slightly more serious note, whitespace characters encompass quite the
number of characters aside from space, tab, and "enter" (which is a line
feed and/or a carriage return), including characters like "non-breaking
space", "ideographic space" (sometimes known as "full-width space"), and
other more exotic characters like "Ogham space mark". None of these, of
course, are distinguishable visually without close inspection.

天火狐

On 19 May 2017 at 16:57, Gaelan Steele  wrote:

> Yeah, that confused me. To stay on the safe side, I went to a lot of
> effort to preserve white space when I imported the ruleset until I could
> invoke Cleanup Time.
>
> Gaelan
>
> > On May 19, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Quazie  wrote:
> >
> > I was looking at the following rule when trying to determine if the
> spacing within a submitted proposal can be modified by the rulekeepor.
> >
> > Rule 2429/1 (Power=1)
> > Bleach
> >
> >   Replacing a non-zero amount of whitespace with a different
> >   non-zero amount of whitespace is generally insignificant, except
> >   for paragraph breaks.
> >
> > History:
> > Created by Proposal 7665 (scshunt), 3 June 2014
> > Amended(1) by Proposal 7709 (Murphy), 3 November 2014
> > The rule seems useless to me - insignificant isn't defined or even used
> within the rules anywhere.
> >
> >
>

Re: DIS: Bleach, what is it good for?

[Gaelan Steele]

Yeah, that confused me. To stay on the safe side, I went to a lot of effort to 
preserve white space when I imported the ruleset until I could invoke Cleanup 
Time.

Gaelan

> On May 19, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Quazie  wrote:
> 
> I was looking at the following rule when trying to determine if the spacing 
> within a submitted proposal can be modified by the rulekeepor.
> 
> Rule 2429/1 (Power=1)
> Bleach
> 
>   Replacing a non-zero amount of whitespace with a different
>   non-zero amount of whitespace is generally insignificant, except
>   for paragraph breaks.
> 
> History:
> Created by Proposal 7665 (scshunt), 3 June 2014
> Amended(1) by Proposal 7709 (Murphy), 3 November 2014
> The rule seems useless to me - insignificant isn't defined or even used 
> within the rules anywhere.
> 
> 

Re: DIS: Bleach, what is it good for?

[Quazie]

The intent was to figure out if the RuleKeepor must respect my spacing, i
think old rules allowed the rulekeepor to make insignificant changes to
proposals before adding them to the ruleset, but I can't find that info
anymore.

I either want to add that fact back, or remove bleach, but I want to see
what people think [Or find out if there's info i'm missing]

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:55 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Do you propose removing it or defining insignificant?
>
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>
> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 4:45 PM, Quazie  wrote:
>
>> I was looking at the following rule when trying to determine if the spacing 
>> within a submitted proposal can be modified by the rulekeepor.
>>
>> Rule 2429/1 (Power=1)
>> Bleach
>>
>>   Replacing a non-zero amount of whitespace with a different
>>   non-zero amount of whitespace is generally insignificant, except
>>   for paragraph breaks.
>>
>> History:
>> Created by Proposal 7665 (scshunt), 3 June 2014
>> Amended(1) by Proposal 7709 (Murphy), 3 November 2014
>>
>> The rule seems useless to me - insignificant isn't defined or even used
>> within the rules anywhere.
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: DIS: Bleach, what is it good for?

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

Do you propose removing it or defining insignificant?


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 4:45 PM, Quazie  wrote:

> I was looking at the following rule when trying to determine if the spacing 
> within a submitted proposal can be modified by the rulekeepor.
>
> Rule 2429/1 (Power=1)
> Bleach
>
>   Replacing a non-zero amount of whitespace with a different
>   non-zero amount of whitespace is generally insignificant, except
>   for paragraph breaks.
>
> History:
> Created by Proposal 7665 (scshunt), 3 June 2014
> Amended(1) by Proposal 7709 (Murphy), 3 November 2014
>
> The rule seems useless to me - insignificant isn't defined or even used
> within the rules anywhere.
>
>
>