Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On 27 Oct 2008, at 21:36, Roger Hicks wrote: I missed this deposit the first time around (sorry ehird!). Murphy only had seven 7 crops to deposit, not 8. This effects the following subsequent PBA withdraw by comex: 2008-10-27 20:49 -- comex deposits 9 1 crops for ^117. comex withdraws 5 6 crops for ^105. e was only able to withdraw four 6 crops. It probably screws with the rate of 6 crops too. Fix'd -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 18:02, Ed Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I join the PBA. > I PBA-deposit all my 6 crops (I think this gets me ^156). I missed this deposit the first time around (sorry ehird!). Murphy only had seven 7 crops to deposit, not 8. This effects the following subsequent PBA withdraw by comex: 2008-10-27 20:49 -- comex deposits 9 1 crops for ^117. comex withdraws 5 6 crops for ^105. e was only able to withdraw four 6 crops. It probably screws with the rate of 6 crops too. > I RBoA-deposit all my coins (I think this gets me 1560 chits). > I become a Banker. > I RBoA-withdraw as many X crops as I can (I think this costs 825 chits). > I RBoA-withdraw as many WRVs as I can (I think this costs 1000 chits). > I intend to change the RBoA's coin exchange to 20. > > BobTHJ
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion: Portfolio Management
On 24 Oct 2008, at 21:39, comex wrote:
I agree to the following pledge:
{
This is a pledge. Bones are a currency. The Treasurer is the
recordkeeper of Bones. Initially the Treasurer is comex.
}
Royal Bank of UNDEAD!
--
ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion: Portfolio Management
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 12:48 PM, Roger Hicks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 12:38, Ed Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> BobTHJ wrote:
>>
>>> If the Treasurer and the RBoA are both members of this contract, the
>>
>> And where is the Treasurer defined?
>>
>
> Section 3 of the RBoA:
> {
> 3. Chits are a currency. The Treasurer is the recordkeeper of Chits.
> Initially the Treasurer is BobTHJ.
> }
It would probably be best to specify the "Treasurer of the RBoA", not
just any old Treasurer.
-root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion: Portfolio Management
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 12:38, Ed Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> BobTHJ wrote:
>
>> If the Treasurer and the RBoA are both members of this contract, the
>
> And where is the Treasurer defined?
>
Section 3 of the RBoA:
{
3. Chits are a currency. The Treasurer is the recordkeeper of Chits.
Initially the Treasurer is BobTHJ.
}
BobTHJ
DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion: Portfolio Management
BobTHJ wrote: > If the Treasurer and the RBoA are both members of this contract, the And where is the Treasurer defined?
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 18:02, Ed Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I RBoA-withdraw as many X crops as I can (I think this costs 825 chits). > I RBoA-withdraw as many WRVs as I can (I think this costs 1000 chits). These are both 0. > I intend to change the RBoA's coin exchange to 20. Intend all you would like, rates are no longer changed in this fashion. BobTHJ
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 14:14, Ian Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I RBoA-deposit 3 3 crops for 195 chits. > I RBoA-deposit 2 4 crops for 50 chits. > I RBoA-deposit 3 8 crops for 165 chits. +410 chits. You now have 415 chits total. > I RBoA-withdraw 2 C# credits for 110 chits. > I RBoA-withdraw 1 D# credit for 55 chits. > I RBoA-withdraw 1 E credit for 55 chits. > I RBoA-withdraw 1 F# credit for 55 chits. > I RBoA-withdraw 1 G# credit for 55 chits. > I RBoA-withdraw 1 A credit for 55 chits. -385 chits. You now have 30 chits remaining > I PBA-withdraw 7 1 crops for 113 coins. Per ehird this failed on the PBA side. > I PBA-withdraw 2 5 crops for 39 coins. Fails, the PBA has no 5 crops (even though the psuedo-PBA report says otherwise) BobTHJ >
DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On 23 Oct 2008, at 00:03, Ian Kelly wrote: I RBoA-deposit 154 coins for 1540 chits. I RBoA-withdraw 5 X crops for 825 chits. I destroy all my remaining chits. I leave all banks to which I am a party. -root Works fine. On 23 Oct 2008, at 01:02, Ed Murphy wrote: I have 482 chits, plus (* = Digit Ranch) FARMER 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 X WRV Murphy 6 2 1 10 2 1 8 4 4 1 4 ** *** * I join the PBA. I PBA-deposit all my 6 crops (I think this gets me ^156). I RBoA-deposit all my coins (I think this gets me 1560 chits). I become a Banker. I RBoA-withdraw as many X crops as I can (I think this costs 825 chits). I RBoA-withdraw as many WRVs as I can (I think this costs 1000 chits). I intend to change the RBoA's coin exchange to 20. As root said: On 23 Oct 2008, at 01:21, Ian Kelly wrote: The RBoA's X crops and WRVs have already been withdrawn. but your crop deposit & coin deposit work fine. -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 6:35 PM, comex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Ian Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I RBoA-deposit 154 coins for 1540 chits. >> I RBoA-withdraw 5 X crops for 825 chits. >> I destroy all my remaining chits. >> I leave all banks to which I am a party. > > ? You just destroyed 65 coins' worth of chits? That way I'm not actually ripping off the RBoA. -root
DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Ian Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I RBoA-deposit 154 coins for 1540 chits. > I RBoA-withdraw 5 X crops for 825 chits. > I destroy all my remaining chits. > I leave all banks to which I am a party. ? You just destroyed 65 coins' worth of chits?
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 6:30 PM, Elliott Hird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 23/10/2008, Ian Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Ed Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> I join the PBA. >>> I PBA-deposit all my 6 crops (I think this gets me ^156). >>> I RBoA-deposit all my coins (I think this gets me 1560 chits). >>> I become a Banker. >>> I RBoA-withdraw as many X crops as I can (I think this costs 825 chits). >>> I RBoA-withdraw as many WRVs as I can (I think this costs 1000 chits). >>> I intend to change the RBoA's coin exchange to 20. >> >> The RBoA's X crops and WRVs have already been withdrawn. >> >> -root >> > And the -2 is weekly And you can become a Banker with only 1 chit now. -root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On 23/10/2008, Ian Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Ed Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I join the PBA. >> I PBA-deposit all my 6 crops (I think this gets me ^156). >> I RBoA-deposit all my coins (I think this gets me 1560 chits). >> I become a Banker. >> I RBoA-withdraw as many X crops as I can (I think this costs 825 chits). >> I RBoA-withdraw as many WRVs as I can (I think this costs 1000 chits). >> I intend to change the RBoA's coin exchange to 20. > > The RBoA's X crops and WRVs have already been withdrawn. > > -root > And the -2 is weekly
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Ed Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I join the PBA. > I PBA-deposit all my 6 crops (I think this gets me ^156). > I RBoA-deposit all my coins (I think this gets me 1560 chits). > I become a Banker. > I RBoA-withdraw as many X crops as I can (I think this costs 825 chits). > I RBoA-withdraw as many WRVs as I can (I think this costs 1000 chits). > I intend to change the RBoA's coin exchange to 20. The RBoA's X crops and WRVs have already been withdrawn. -root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On 22 Oct 2008, at 23:05, Ian Kelly wrote: Yes, and they always seem to get withdrawn by the same minority of coinholders, which suggests that in the PBA the slower-to-react players are just feeding the faster ones. No, it would seem like there aren't many Comrades at the moment and of those only a few are actually using the bank. (Because it's just started.) -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Then what's the use? If it will never have the things that I want, >> what good are coins? >> > It has them sometimes, just doesn't stockpile. I'd like to point out > that the RBoA never attracts currencies whose exchange rates are set too > low, whereas with the PBA they end up deposited eventually. No bank can > ensure having valuable assets all the time. Yes, and they always seem to get withdrawn by the same minority of coinholders, which suggests that in the PBA the slower-to-react players are just feeding the faster ones. -root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 15:57 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Elliott Hird > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On 22 Oct 2008, at 22:46, Ian Kelly wrote: > > > >> but for some reason the PBA doesn't seem to have much of actual value. > > > > > > That's because PBA's designed not to stockpile things which are very > > valuable, like 2 > > crops. > > Then what's the use? If it will never have the things that I want, > what good are coins? > It has them sometimes, just doesn't stockpile. I'd like to point out that the RBoA never attracts currencies whose exchange rates are set too low, whereas with the PBA they end up deposited eventually. No bank can ensure having valuable assets all the time. -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Elliott Hird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 22 Oct 2008, at 22:46, Ian Kelly wrote: > >> but for some reason the PBA doesn't seem to have much of actual value. > > > That's because PBA's designed not to stockpile things which are very > valuable, like 2 > crops. Then what's the use? If it will never have the things that I want, what good are coins? -root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On 22 Oct 2008, at 22:46, Ian Kelly wrote: but for some reason the PBA doesn't seem to have much of actual value. That's because PBA's designed not to stockpile things which are very valuable, like 2 crops. -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, if you are creating an artificial shortage, someone with lots of > 1s can therefore make a profit at your expense by depositing them. Possibly. I would have liked to withdraw something more useful, but for some reason the PBA doesn't seem to have much of actual value. -root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 15:39 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for proving the point. The PBA is designed to reward people who > > fix the rates to be more correct, which is what you did just there. In > > other words, if a rate is too high, it creates an incentive to deposit > > and bring the rate down/stop it increasing. > > > > The true rate scam would have been not doing that. > > Except that 1) I was careful to hardly adjust the rates at all by > depositing several different currencies at once; and 2) the rate for 1 > crops is now out-of-whack since I withdrew at a rate above what I > would normally consider fair in order to create an artificial > shortage. > Well, if you are creating an artificial shortage, someone with lots of 1s can therefore make a profit at your expense by depositing them. -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 2:20 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks for proving the point. The PBA is designed to reward people who > fix the rates to be more correct, which is what you did just there. In > other words, if a rate is too high, it creates an incentive to deposit > and bring the rate down/stop it increasing. > > The true rate scam would have been not doing that. Except that 1) I was careful to hardly adjust the rates at all by depositing several different currencies at once; and 2) the rate for 1 crops is now out-of-whack since I withdrew at a rate above what I would normally consider fair in order to create an artificial shortage. -root
DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 11:26 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > If this motion passes, I pledge to withdraw all coins from the bank > and distribute floor(C * R) coins to each chitholder, where C is the > number of coins withdrawn, and R is the ratio of that chitholder's > chits to the number of all chits in existence at the time of the > withdrawal. I'm not sure if this creates a pledge or not. I read it as creating a pledge in the future conditional on something happening then, which I suspect works in B Nomic but not Agora. -- ais523 Notary
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On 22 Oct 2008, at 21:14, Ian Kelly wrote: I PBA-withdraw 7 1 crops for 113 coins. Thanks for improving the rates! The PBA is designed to reward you for that, and now you've made the rates better so it's good for all. However, that withdraw fails as it'd actually cost you 112 coins. -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On 22 Oct 2008, at 20:04, Ian Kelly wrote: Doesn't matter. The RBoA has a surplus of coins. Might as well put them to use, and if that temporarily reduces the available PBA assets as a side-effect, all the better. Yes, let's punish it for not being vulnerable to rate scams. -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The PBA doesn't mind that, though. What you're doing is more or less > equivalent to the RBoA buying the PBA's assets itself; that just puts > the exchange rates up a bit, so depositing into the PBA is more > attractive. The PBA is really designed to depend on it having 0 of a > currency that is underpriced. Doesn't matter. The RBoA has a surplus of coins. Might as well put them to use, and if that temporarily reduces the available PBA assets as a side-effect, all the better. -root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 12:44 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If the RBoA's exchange rate is much less than 10 times the PBA's > > exchange rate, and it has none of that currency, people are very > > unlikely to deposit that currency in it, as they could have deposited in > > the PBA instead for more wealth. Therefore, such exchange rates do not > > affect the true value of Chits. > > If you can't get those currencies with chits, then chits are less > valuable. Perhaps that just means those rates need to be raised to > match the PBA's rates, but frankly the PBA's rates in those currencies > too high to be worth trading for, and they don't seem to be headed > down very fast. > > Besides, you're missing that part of the point of flushing the RBoA's > coins is not to correct things, but to engineer a counter-run against > the PBA's assets. > The PBA doesn't mind that, though. What you're doing is more or less equivalent to the RBoA buying the PBA's assets itself; that just puts the exchange rates up a bit, so depositing into the PBA is more attractive. The PBA is really designed to depend on it having 0 of a currency that is underpriced. -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If the RBoA's exchange rate is much less than 10 times the PBA's > exchange rate, and it has none of that currency, people are very > unlikely to deposit that currency in it, as they could have deposited in > the PBA instead for more wealth. Therefore, such exchange rates do not > affect the true value of Chits. If you can't get those currencies with chits, then chits are less valuable. Perhaps that just means those rates need to be raised to match the PBA's rates, but frankly the PBA's rates in those currencies too high to be worth trading for, and they don't seem to be headed down very fast. Besides, you're missing that part of the point of flushing the RBoA's coins is not to correct things, but to engineer a counter-run against the PBA's assets. -root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 12:28 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 12:20 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > I'd also like to point out that the current exaggerated rate is quite > >> > possibly correct. The PBA's designed to adjust exchange rates > >> > automatically, and I think it'll automatically adjust so that a Coin is > >> > worth 10 Chits if people withdraw and deposit using the best strategy. > >> > >> Um, no. There are still plenty of currencies for which the PBA rate > >> is much more than 1/10 the RBoA exchange rate. > >> > > Does the RBoA have any of them left? > > > > If so, time to earn some more free Chits... > > Probably not, but the point is that the rates have only equalized in > the more commonly traded currencies, not across the board. > If the RBoA's exchange rate is much less than 10 times the PBA's exchange rate, and it has none of that currency, people are very unlikely to deposit that currency in it, as they could have deposited in the PBA instead for more wealth. Therefore, such exchange rates do not affect the true value of Chits. -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 12:20 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > I'd also like to point out that the current exaggerated rate is quite >> > possibly correct. The PBA's designed to adjust exchange rates >> > automatically, and I think it'll automatically adjust so that a Coin is >> > worth 10 Chits if people withdraw and deposit using the best strategy. >> >> Um, no. There are still plenty of currencies for which the PBA rate >> is much more than 1/10 the RBoA exchange rate. >> > Does the RBoA have any of them left? > > If so, time to earn some more free Chits... Probably not, but the point is that the rates have only equalized in the more commonly traded currencies, not across the board. -root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 12:20 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'd also like to point out that the current exaggerated rate is quite > > possibly correct. The PBA's designed to adjust exchange rates > > automatically, and I think it'll automatically adjust so that a Coin is > > worth 10 Chits if people withdraw and deposit using the best strategy. > > Um, no. There are still plenty of currencies for which the PBA rate > is much more than 1/10 the RBoA exchange rate. > Does the RBoA have any of them left? If so, time to earn some more free Chits... -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Alex Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'd also like to point out that the current exaggerated rate is quite > possibly correct. The PBA's designed to adjust exchange rates > automatically, and I think it'll automatically adjust so that a Coin is > worth 10 Chits if people withdraw and deposit using the best strategy. Um, no. There are still plenty of currencies for which the PBA rate is much more than 1/10 the RBoA exchange rate. -root
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On 22 Oct 2008, at 19:16, Alex Smith wrote: I'd also like to point out that the current exaggerated rate is quite possibly correct. The PBA's designed to adjust exchange rates automatically, and I think it'll automatically adjust so that a Coin is worth 10 Chits if people withdraw and deposit using the best strategy. -- ais523 What the bank run and the PBA are ending up doing is making it so that 1 coin = 10 chits. Unfortunately, this isn't very good for the RBoA right now as that is not their actual worth. -- ehird
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, 2008-10-22 at 12:11 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Taral <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Ian Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Er, I disapprove of this. It occurs to me that this would create even > >> more incentive to deposit new coins in the RBoA. > > > > Oh, wait. No, it creates less incentive to deposit coins. You get less > > chits! > > I mean that it creates incentive to deposit coins now. Suppose > someone deposits 200 coins before the motion passes, and gets 2000 > chits, bringing the total number of chits to (let's suppose) 1 at > the time the motion passes. Then they get 40 of their coins back, > plus 20% of the rest of the coins in the bank (currently over 200, so > figure an additional 40 coins), plus they still have their 2000 chits > to withdraw other RBoA assets. So for 120 coins they wind up with > 2000 chits instead of just 1200 at the current exaggerated rate. > I'd also like to point out that the current exaggerated rate is quite possibly correct. The PBA's designed to adjust exchange rates automatically, and I think it'll automatically adjust so that a Coin is worth 10 Chits if people withdraw and deposit using the best strategy. -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Taral <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Ian Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Er, I disapprove of this. It occurs to me that this would create even >> more incentive to deposit new coins in the RBoA. > > Oh, wait. No, it creates less incentive to deposit coins. You get less chits! I mean that it creates incentive to deposit coins now. Suppose someone deposits 200 coins before the motion passes, and gets 2000 chits, bringing the total number of chits to (let's suppose) 1 at the time the motion passes. Then they get 40 of their coins back, plus 20% of the rest of the coins in the bank (currently over 200, so figure an additional 40 coins), plus they still have their 2000 chits to withdraw other RBoA assets. So for 120 coins they wind up with 2000 chits instead of just 1200 at the current exaggerated rate. -root
DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Ian Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Er, I disapprove of this. It occurs to me that this would create even > more incentive to deposit new coins in the RBoA. Oh, wait. No, it creates less incentive to deposit coins. You get less chits! -- Taral <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Please let me know if there's any further trouble I can give you." -- Unknown
DIS: Re: BUS: Bank Motion
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Ian Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Er, I disapprove of this. It occurs to me that this would create even > more incentive to deposit new coins in the RBoA. Yes... but it would reduce the number of chits they get. More importantly, it would stop the bank run. -- Taral <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Please let me know if there's any further trouble I can give you." -- Unknown
