DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: The gig economy

[Nicholas Evans]

I like this a lot in theory.

Bard would need careful definition to not be abused/impossible to satisfy

Tour Guide reminds me that I need to fix the agora wiki...

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> (Some jobs don't need regular Offices, but should be rewarded with payoffs
> as they are valuable to Agora).
>
> Proto:  The Gig Economy
>
> Create the following Rule, The Gig Economy:
>
>   If a task is defined by the rules as a Gig, then any Player
>   (the performer) CAN perform the task (perform the gig) if no
>   one has performed the task in the same Nomic Week.
>
>   If a performer does so, clearly specifying that eir action is
>   intended to fulfill a particular gig,  Agora SHALL pay that
>   player 5 shinies at the beginning of the next Nomic Week.
>
>   If a player purports to perform a gig, then any player CAN, with
>   2 Support, assert that it was a failed gig; if this occurs, the
>   performer is not paid.  This SHOULD only be asserted if the
>   attempted performance clearly falls short of the required effort.
>
>   The following Gigs are defined:
>
>   - Reporter:  Publish a report, at least 300 words in length, with
> a description of events that have happened in Agora in the last
> 2 months that the Reporter believes significant or interesting.
> This may contain editorialization or other pieces of Agora-related
> information, as long as it is neither i) factually incorrect nor
> ii) disrespectful to any person or Agora itself.  The goal of such
> reports is to create a more informed population.
>
>   - Research Assistant: Publish a report, at least 300 words in length,
> in response to a request for information about the history of
> Agora.
>
>   - Tour Guide:  Publish (including updating) a precis of Rules, a set
> of resources such as web links, or information that might serve as
> an entry in an Agoran FAQ.
>
>   - Bard: Publish, or publish a link to, a substantially creative and
> original Work of Art created by the Bard, relevant to and created
> for Agora, with the goal of evoking enlightenment, humor,
> entertainment,
> challenging ideas, or thoughtful contemplation in Agorans.
>
>  [Option:  a single Officer, the Managor, whose job it is to promote
> the
>   gig economy, track gigs (monthly report), and maintain an online
> archive
>   of gig-produced material].
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: The gig economy

[Owen Jacobson]

I rather like this proposal, and I’m looking forward to the second draft. I do 
have one (sincere, not critical) question:

On Apr 19, 2017, at 9:33 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>  If a performer does so, clearly specifying that eir action is
>  intended to fulfill a particular gig,  Agora SHALL pay that
>  player 5 shinies at the beginning of the next Nomic Week.

Is it intended that this payment be made even if Agora’s balance is negative?

-o



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: The gig economy

[Kerim Aydin]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, Aris Merchant wrote:
> I disagree. It hasn't seen its second drafting yet, and I think we should 
> discuss it somewhat more. However, I do believe it is traditionally the 
> author's privilege to decide when a proposal is ready for a vote.

I was waiting to see if there was more discussion, but there's been
plenty of good feedback so I'll aim for a 2nd draft by tomorrow (want
to get a jump on assigning the sudden CFJ activity, too!)

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: The gig economy

[Aris Merchant]

I disagree. It hasn't seen its second drafting yet, and I think we should
discuss it somewhat more. However, I do believe it is traditionally the
author's privilege to decide when a proposal is ready for a vote.

-Aris

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 3:48 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I recommend we try to move this along to a vote.
>
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> It could be scaling where a person purports to have completed a gig and
>> are awarded five shinies without 2 objections, but with two support it may
>> be increased. This scaling could be proportional to length.
>>
>> 
>> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 6:20 PM, Aris Merchant <
>> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Minor grammar tweak: in the sentence "the goal of such reports is to
>>> create a more informed population," there is an apparent plurality
>>> mismatch between "reports" and "is". I know that the subject is
>>> actually "the goal", but it feels a bit awkward.
>>>
>>> Suggested substance changes: I'd support removing the once a week
>>> limit. 300 words seems like a rather large requirement, so maybe it
>>> could be reduced? Also maybe make the payment variable by gig, with 5
>>> shinies as the default? There is a potential scam where someone could
>>> get a ton of shinies by releasing a bunch of purported gig fulfilments
>>> right before the end of the Agoran week.
>>>
>>> -Aris
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>>>  wrote:
>>> > I would like a new ribbon. Also, I would support this more if there
>>> were not
>>> > a limit on the number of people who could perform it and only a limit
>>> on
>>> > certain things which should only occur once per week.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wednesday, April 19, 2017, Alex Smith 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, 2017-04-19 at 06:33 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>> >> > Proto:  The Gig Economy
>>> >>
>>> >> Haven't checked the details, but I really like this idea. We could
>>> >> definitely do with fewer mandatory-duty offices.
>>> >>
>>> >> I can see an argument for converting the Referee into one of these too
>>> >> (when the game's going slowly, violations other than late reports are
>>> >> rare). Some day we could probably bring back Anarchist within this
>>> >> framework too (although we're likely not at the complexity level where
>>> >> that's useful).
>>> >>
>>> >> I'd support a new colour of ribbon for this. (IIRC, the list of
>>> Ribbons
>>> >> was originally, /way/ back, created by giving a distinct Ribbon for
>>> >> each way to gain currency. The current Ribbons aren't entirely based
>>> on
>>> >> that principle, but there's a lot of overlap, and overlapping it here
>>> >> makes sense.)
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> ais523
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > 
>>> > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: The gig economy

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

I recommend we try to move this along to a vote.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> It could be scaling where a person purports to have completed a gig and
> are awarded five shinies without 2 objections, but with two support it may
> be increased. This scaling could be proportional to length.
>
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 6:20 PM, Aris Merchant  gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Minor grammar tweak: in the sentence "the goal of such reports is to
>> create a more informed population," there is an apparent plurality
>> mismatch between "reports" and "is". I know that the subject is
>> actually "the goal", but it feels a bit awkward.
>>
>> Suggested substance changes: I'd support removing the once a week
>> limit. 300 words seems like a rather large requirement, so maybe it
>> could be reduced? Also maybe make the payment variable by gig, with 5
>> shinies as the default? There is a potential scam where someone could
>> get a ton of shinies by releasing a bunch of purported gig fulfilments
>> right before the end of the Agoran week.
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>>  wrote:
>> > I would like a new ribbon. Also, I would support this more if there
>> were not
>> > a limit on the number of people who could perform it and only a limit on
>> > certain things which should only occur once per week.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wednesday, April 19, 2017, Alex Smith 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 2017-04-19 at 06:33 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>> >> > Proto:  The Gig Economy
>> >>
>> >> Haven't checked the details, but I really like this idea. We could
>> >> definitely do with fewer mandatory-duty offices.
>> >>
>> >> I can see an argument for converting the Referee into one of these too
>> >> (when the game's going slowly, violations other than late reports are
>> >> rare). Some day we could probably bring back Anarchist within this
>> >> framework too (although we're likely not at the complexity level where
>> >> that's useful).
>> >>
>> >> I'd support a new colour of ribbon for this. (IIRC, the list of Ribbons
>> >> was originally, /way/ back, created by giving a distinct Ribbon for
>> >> each way to gain currency. The current Ribbons aren't entirely based on
>> >> that principle, but there's a lot of overlap, and overlapping it here
>> >> makes sense.)
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> ais523
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > 
>> > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: The gig economy

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

It could be scaling where a person purports to have completed a gig and are
awarded five shinies without 2 objections, but with two support it may be
increased. This scaling could be proportional to length.


Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 6:20 PM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Minor grammar tweak: in the sentence "the goal of such reports is to
> create a more informed population," there is an apparent plurality
> mismatch between "reports" and "is". I know that the subject is
> actually "the goal", but it feels a bit awkward.
>
> Suggested substance changes: I'd support removing the once a week
> limit. 300 words seems like a rather large requirement, so maybe it
> could be reduced? Also maybe make the payment variable by gig, with 5
> shinies as the default? There is a potential scam where someone could
> get a ton of shinies by releasing a bunch of purported gig fulfilments
> right before the end of the Agoran week.
>
> -Aris
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>  wrote:
> > I would like a new ribbon. Also, I would support this more if there were
> not
> > a limit on the number of people who could perform it and only a limit on
> > certain things which should only occur once per week.
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, April 19, 2017, Alex Smith 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 2017-04-19 at 06:33 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >> > Proto:  The Gig Economy
> >>
> >> Haven't checked the details, but I really like this idea. We could
> >> definitely do with fewer mandatory-duty offices.
> >>
> >> I can see an argument for converting the Referee into one of these too
> >> (when the game's going slowly, violations other than late reports are
> >> rare). Some day we could probably bring back Anarchist within this
> >> framework too (although we're likely not at the complexity level where
> >> that's useful).
> >>
> >> I'd support a new colour of ribbon for this. (IIRC, the list of Ribbons
> >> was originally, /way/ back, created by giving a distinct Ribbon for
> >> each way to gain currency. The current Ribbons aren't entirely based on
> >> that principle, but there's a lot of overlap, and overlapping it here
> >> makes sense.)
> >>
> >> --
> >> ais523
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 
> > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> >
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: The gig economy

[Aris Merchant]

Minor grammar tweak: in the sentence "the goal of such reports is to
create a more informed population," there is an apparent plurality
mismatch between "reports" and "is". I know that the subject is
actually "the goal", but it feels a bit awkward.

Suggested substance changes: I'd support removing the once a week
limit. 300 words seems like a rather large requirement, so maybe it
could be reduced? Also maybe make the payment variable by gig, with 5
shinies as the default? There is a potential scam where someone could
get a ton of shinies by releasing a bunch of purported gig fulfilments
right before the end of the Agoran week.

-Aris

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
 wrote:
> I would like a new ribbon. Also, I would support this more if there were not
> a limit on the number of people who could perform it and only a limit on
> certain things which should only occur once per week.
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 19, 2017, Alex Smith  wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 2017-04-19 at 06:33 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>> > Proto:  The Gig Economy
>>
>> Haven't checked the details, but I really like this idea. We could
>> definitely do with fewer mandatory-duty offices.
>>
>> I can see an argument for converting the Referee into one of these too
>> (when the game's going slowly, violations other than late reports are
>> rare). Some day we could probably bring back Anarchist within this
>> framework too (although we're likely not at the complexity level where
>> that's useful).
>>
>> I'd support a new colour of ribbon for this. (IIRC, the list of Ribbons
>> was originally, /way/ back, created by giving a distinct Ribbon for
>> each way to gain currency. The current Ribbons aren't entirely based on
>> that principle, but there's a lot of overlap, and overlapping it here
>> makes sense.)
>>
>> --
>> ais523
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: The gig economy

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

I would like a new ribbon. Also, I would support this more if there were
not a limit on the number of people who could perform it and only a limit
on certain things which should only occur once per week.

On Wednesday, April 19, 2017, Alex Smith  wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-04-19 at 06:33 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > Proto:  The Gig Economy
>
> Haven't checked the details, but I really like this idea. We could
> definitely do with fewer mandatory-duty offices.
>
> I can see an argument for converting the Referee into one of these too
> (when the game's going slowly, violations other than late reports are
> rare). Some day we could probably bring back Anarchist within this
> framework too (although we're likely not at the complexity level where
> that's useful).
>
> I'd support a new colour of ribbon for this. (IIRC, the list of Ribbons
> was originally, /way/ back, created by giving a distinct Ribbon for
> each way to gain currency. The current Ribbons aren't entirely based on
> that principle, but there's a lot of overlap, and overlapping it here
> makes sense.)
>
> --
> ais523
>


-- 

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: The gig economy

[Alex Smith]

On Wed, 2017-04-19 at 06:33 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> Proto:  The Gig Economy

Haven't checked the details, but I really like this idea. We could
definitely do with fewer mandatory-duty offices.

I can see an argument for converting the Referee into one of these too
(when the game's going slowly, violations other than late reports are
rare). Some day we could probably bring back Anarchist within this
framework too (although we're likely not at the complexity level where
that's useful).

I'd support a new colour of ribbon for this. (IIRC, the list of Ribbons
was originally, /way/ back, created by giving a distinct Ribbon for
each way to gain currency. The current Ribbons aren't entirely based on
that principle, but there's a lot of overlap, and overlapping it here
makes sense.)

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: The gig economy

[Kerim Aydin]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2017, Quazie wrote:
> should one get a cyan ribbon for doing enough gigs?

Good idea.  Or an entirely new Ribbon.

DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: The gig economy

[Quazie]

should one get a cyan ribbon for doing enough gigs?


On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 06:33 Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> (Some jobs don't need regular Offices, but should be rewarded with payoffs
> as they are valuable to Agora).
>
> Proto:  The Gig Economy
>
> Create the following Rule, The Gig Economy:
>
>   If a task is defined by the rules as a Gig, then any Player
>   (the performer) CAN perform the task (perform the gig) if no
>   one has performed the task in the same Nomic Week.
>
>   If a performer does so, clearly specifying that eir action is
>   intended to fulfill a particular gig,  Agora SHALL pay that
>   player 5 shinies at the beginning of the next Nomic Week.
>
>   If a player purports to perform a gig, then any player CAN, with
>   2 Support, assert that it was a failed gig; if this occurs, the
>   performer is not paid.  This SHOULD only be asserted if the
>   attempted performance clearly falls short of the required effort.
>
>   The following Gigs are defined:
>
>   - Reporter:  Publish a report, at least 300 words in length, with
> a description of events that have happened in Agora in the last
> 2 months that the Reporter believes significant or interesting.
> This may contain editorialization or other pieces of Agora-related
> information, as long as it is neither i) factually incorrect nor
> ii) disrespectful to any person or Agora itself.  The goal of such
> reports is to create a more informed population.
>
>   - Research Assistant: Publish a report, at least 300 words in length,
> in response to a request for information about the history of
> Agora.
>
>   - Tour Guide:  Publish (including updating) a precis of Rules, a set
> of resources such as web links, or information that might serve as
> an entry in an Agoran FAQ.
>
>   - Bard: Publish, or publish a link to, a substantially creative and
> original Work of Art created by the Bard, relevant to and created
> for Agora, with the goal of evoking enlightenment, humor,
> entertainment,
> challenging ideas, or thoughtful contemplation in Agorans.
>
>  [Option:  a single Officer, the Managor, whose job it is to promote
> the
>   gig economy, track gigs (monthly report), and maintain an online
> archive
>   of gig-produced material].
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Proto: The gig economy

[Kerim Aydin]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2017, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>   The following Gigs are defined:

Additional (brings in the other discussion thread going on):

   Narc:  Point the Finger at 1 or more Officers for failing to
   perform official duties, with an emphasis on penalizing
   excessively late reports.