Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Birthday
El 13/02/2020 a las 17:56, Timon Walshe-Grey via agora-discussion escribió: sukil wrote: Me too! Hi sukil, welcome to Agora! You sent this to the main Discussion Forum (agora-discussion@agoranomic.org), whereas you probably meant to send it to the main Public Forum (agora-busin...@agoranomic.org). Messages sent to a discussion forum have no in-game effect, because it's useful for us to have a way to talk about the game without actually performing in-game actions. The details about fora are in Rule 478, and you can find a list of fora in the Registrar's weekly report, which is published online here: https://agoranomic.org/Registrar/ -twg You're right. Upon investigation, it seems that the headers got messed up in the message I was replying to (or before that message),populating the "reply-to" header with the discussion list and your e-mail address. Thanks very much on the pointer about the register!
DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Birthday
sukil wrote: > Me too! Hi sukil, welcome to Agora! You sent this to the main Discussion Forum (agora-discussion@agoranomic.org), whereas you probably meant to send it to the main Public Forum (agora-busin...@agoranomic.org). Messages sent to a discussion forum have no in-game effect, because it's useful for us to have a way to talk about the game without actually performing in-game actions. The details about fora are in Rule 478, and you can find a list of fora in the Registrar's weekly report, which is published online here: https://agoranomic.org/Registrar/ -twg
DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Birthday
El 13/02/2020 a las 17:37, Timon Walshe-Grey via agora-business escribió: Aris wrote: On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 5:09 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: Happy birthday! I grant Falsifian 3 coins. Likewise! So do I! -tw Me too!
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Birthday
In terms of the common definition for "declare", it makes perfect sense. In fact I called a CFJ on a similar issue (substituting "state" for "declare") a couple weeks back, but I'm realizing it's not in the Gazette. D. Margaux, did the following CFJ get missed or am I just not finding the assignment? https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-January/039834.html On 2/13/2019 6:05 PM, James Cook wrote: Thanks, G. When I was initially planning this, I thought I remembered Rule 478 being power=4 and having some strong wording to the effect that players can participate in the fora, and thought I could make a case that a lower-powered rule like 2125 can't limit a player's ability to do anything synonymous with sending messages (such as making a public declaration) .But thinking about it more, even if my false memory were true, the text "declared as eir Agoran Birthday" in Rule 2585 should not be interpreted as referring to the ordinary English verb "declare", because anyone with common sense would understand that it's intending to refer to the regulated action defined in the previous sentence, and Rule 217 says we should augment the rule with common sense if it's ambiguous. Does that all make sense? Or is this a wrong or misleading way to look at the situation? Falsifian On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 13:28, Kerim Aydin wrote: Welcome, Falsifian! Good test of new rule - nice beginning! In general, when a rule says "a Player CAN [verb] with Agoran Consent", it means that e does whatever [verb] is using the Agoran Consent method; that is, the "actual" actions the player takes are following the R1728 procedure. Similarly, if it was "can declare by announcement" then e would do it by announcement. This is what is meant by "only using the methods explicitly specified in the Rules" in Rule 2125. Interestingly, if the rule said "declare" and didn't have one of the Rules methods in addition, then it's not clear how you would do it. To interpret it, a judge would probably use the common (dictionary) definition of "declare" (as per R217), and it's not clear whether, as a result, "declare" on it own would mean to publish it, or just say it out loud (i.e. literally declare it to yourself), or what. So you'd be spot-on with your arguments in that case. -G. On 2/12/2019 5:58 PM, James Cook wrote: Thanks, D. Margaux. The only thing I can think of is that "declaring" might not be an action (and hence not covered by Rule 1728), or that it might be synonymous with "announcing" or "publishing", which Rule 478 allows me to do. I'm guessing that Rule 217 and game custom defeat those arguments, but I thought I'd give it a try, since I don't have much experience with game custom. On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 01:17, D. Margaux wrote: Welcome! I assign that CFJ to myself Under the rule, I believe that a player CAN declare a date to be eir birthday only “with Agoran Consent,” which is a particular method of taking actions described in Rule 1728 that requires that you first announce your intent to perform the action, and give players an opportunity to support or object to it, and the action is permitted only if more people support than oppose. So based on that, I think the CFJ is FALSE, and I judge it that way unless there is something I am missing. On Feb 12, 2019, at 7:52 PM, James Cook wrote: I register. I go by "Falsifian" in online settings, or just my real name "James" if you prefer. My Agoran Birthday is the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13, 2018. I initiate a CFJ for the statement "It is Falsifian's Agoran Birthday today (the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13, 2019).". Here is my argument: 1. I declared earlier in this message that is my Agoran Birthday was one year ago. This is a simple matter of fact that anyone reading this can verify. The rules cannot change this fact. 2. The day I first registered is unknown, because I haven't told anyone. For example, as far as anyone else knows, I might have first registered a very long time ago under a different name. 3. Rule 2585 says: "As long as the day a player first registered remains unknown, it is considered to be eir Agoran Birthday on the anniversary of the day e most recently declared as eir Agoran Birthday.". Based on my two earlier points, then, today is the anniversary of my Agoran Birthday.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Birthday
Thanks, G. When I was initially planning this, I thought I remembered Rule 478 being power=4 and having some strong wording to the effect that players can participate in the fora, and thought I could make a case that a lower-powered rule like 2125 can't limit a player's ability to do anything synonymous with sending messages (such as making a public declaration) .But thinking about it more, even if my false memory were true, the text "declared as eir Agoran Birthday" in Rule 2585 should not be interpreted as referring to the ordinary English verb "declare", because anyone with common sense would understand that it's intending to refer to the regulated action defined in the previous sentence, and Rule 217 says we should augment the rule with common sense if it's ambiguous. Does that all make sense? Or is this a wrong or misleading way to look at the situation? Falsifian On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 13:28, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > Welcome, Falsifian! Good test of new rule - nice beginning! > > In general, when a rule says "a Player CAN [verb] with Agoran Consent", it > means that e does whatever [verb] is using the Agoran Consent method; that > is, the "actual" actions the player takes are following the R1728 procedure. > Similarly, if it was "can declare by announcement" then e would do it by > announcement. > > This is what is meant by "only using the methods explicitly specified in the > Rules" in Rule 2125. > > Interestingly, if the rule said "declare" and didn't have one of the Rules > methods in addition, then it's not clear how you would do it. To interpret > it, a judge would probably use the common (dictionary) definition of > "declare" (as per R217), and it's not clear whether, as a result, > "declare" on it own would mean to publish it, or just say it out loud (i.e. > literally declare it to yourself), or what. So you'd be spot-on with your > arguments in that case. > > -G. > > On 2/12/2019 5:58 PM, James Cook wrote: > > Thanks, D. Margaux. The only thing I can think of is that "declaring" > > might not be an action (and hence not covered by Rule 1728), or that > > it might be synonymous with "announcing" or "publishing", which Rule > > 478 allows me to do. I'm guessing that Rule 217 and game custom > > defeat those arguments, but I thought I'd give it a try, since I don't > > have much experience with game custom. > > > > > > On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 01:17, D. Margaux wrote: > >> > >> Welcome! > >> > >> I assign that CFJ to myself > >> > >> Under the rule, I believe that a player CAN declare a date to be eir > >> birthday only “with Agoran Consent,” which is a particular method of > >> taking actions described in Rule 1728 that requires that you first > >> announce your intent to perform the action, and give players an > >> opportunity to support or object to it, and the action is permitted only > >> if more people support than oppose. So based on that, I think the CFJ is > >> FALSE, and I judge it that way unless there is something I am missing. > >> > >>> On Feb 12, 2019, at 7:52 PM, James Cook wrote: > >>> > >>> I register. I go by "Falsifian" in online settings, or just my real name > >>> "James" if you prefer. > >>> > >>> My Agoran Birthday is the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13, > >>> 2018. > >>> > >>> I initiate a CFJ for the statement "It is Falsifian's Agoran Birthday > >>> today > >>> (the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13, 2019).". > >>> > >>> Here is my argument: > >>> > >>> 1. I declared earlier in this message that is my Agoran Birthday was one > >>> year ago. This is a simple matter of fact that anyone reading this can > >>> verify. The rules cannot change this fact. > >>> > >>> 2. The day I first registered is unknown, because I haven't told anyone. > >>> For example, as far as anyone else knows, I might have first registered a > >>> very long time ago under a different name. > >>> > >>> 3. Rule 2585 says: "As long as the day a player first registered remains > >>> unknown, it is considered to be eir Agoran Birthday on the anniversary of > >>> the day e most recently declared as eir Agoran Birthday.". Based on my two > >>> earlier points, then, today is the anniversary of my Agoran Birthday.
DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Birthday
You adopted the reasons, but arguably not the judgement. Could you say that you judge it FALSE, just in case? -Aris On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 3:54 PM D. Margaux wrote: > > I adopt the below reasons as my final judgment In this CFJ. > > I earn 5 coins and award myself 3 PLA favours for issuing the CFJ. > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: "D. Margaux" > > Date: February 12, 2019 at 8:17:07 PM EST > > To: agora-busin...@agoranomic.org > > Subject: Re: BUS: Registration and Birthday > > > > Welcome! > > > > I assign that CFJ to myself > > > > Under the rule, I believe that a player CAN declare a date to be eir > birthday only “with Agoran Consent,” which is a particular method of taking > actions described in Rule 1728 that requires that you first announce your > intent to perform the action, and give players an opportunity to support or > object to it, and the action is permitted only if more people support than > oppose. So based on that, I think the CFJ is FALSE, and I judge it that way > unless there is something I am missing. > > > >> On Feb 12, 2019, at 7:52 PM, James Cook wrote: > >> > >> I register. I go by "Falsifian" in online settings, or just my real name > >> "James" if you prefer. > >> > >> My Agoran Birthday is the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13, > >> 2018. > >> > >> I initiate a CFJ for the statement "It is Falsifian's Agoran Birthday > today > >> (the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13, 2019).". > >> > >> Here is my argument: > >> > >> 1. I declared earlier in this message that is my Agoran Birthday was one > >> year ago. This is a simple matter of fact that anyone reading this can > >> verify. The rules cannot change this fact. > >> > >> 2. The day I first registered is unknown, because I haven't told anyone. > >> For example, as far as anyone else knows, I might have first registered > a > >> very long time ago under a different name. > >> > >> 3. Rule 2585 says: "As long as the day a player first registered remains > >> unknown, it is considered to be eir Agoran Birthday on the anniversary > of > >> the day e most recently declared as eir Agoran Birthday.". Based on my > two > >> earlier points, then, today is the anniversary of my Agoran Birthday. >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Birthday
Welcome, Falsifian! Good test of new rule - nice beginning! In general, when a rule says "a Player CAN [verb] with Agoran Consent", it means that e does whatever [verb] is using the Agoran Consent method; that is, the "actual" actions the player takes are following the R1728 procedure. Similarly, if it was "can declare by announcement" then e would do it by announcement. This is what is meant by "only using the methods explicitly specified in the Rules" in Rule 2125. Interestingly, if the rule said "declare" and didn't have one of the Rules methods in addition, then it's not clear how you would do it. To interpret it, a judge would probably use the common (dictionary) definition of "declare" (as per R217), and it's not clear whether, as a result, "declare" on it own would mean to publish it, or just say it out loud (i.e. literally declare it to yourself), or what. So you'd be spot-on with your arguments in that case. -G. On 2/12/2019 5:58 PM, James Cook wrote: Thanks, D. Margaux. The only thing I can think of is that "declaring" might not be an action (and hence not covered by Rule 1728), or that it might be synonymous with "announcing" or "publishing", which Rule 478 allows me to do. I'm guessing that Rule 217 and game custom defeat those arguments, but I thought I'd give it a try, since I don't have much experience with game custom. On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 01:17, D. Margaux wrote: Welcome! I assign that CFJ to myself Under the rule, I believe that a player CAN declare a date to be eir birthday only “with Agoran Consent,” which is a particular method of taking actions described in Rule 1728 that requires that you first announce your intent to perform the action, and give players an opportunity to support or object to it, and the action is permitted only if more people support than oppose. So based on that, I think the CFJ is FALSE, and I judge it that way unless there is something I am missing. On Feb 12, 2019, at 7:52 PM, James Cook wrote: I register. I go by "Falsifian" in online settings, or just my real name "James" if you prefer. My Agoran Birthday is the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13, 2018. I initiate a CFJ for the statement "It is Falsifian's Agoran Birthday today (the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13, 2019).". Here is my argument: 1. I declared earlier in this message that is my Agoran Birthday was one year ago. This is a simple matter of fact that anyone reading this can verify. The rules cannot change this fact. 2. The day I first registered is unknown, because I haven't told anyone. For example, as far as anyone else knows, I might have first registered a very long time ago under a different name. 3. Rule 2585 says: "As long as the day a player first registered remains unknown, it is considered to be eir Agoran Birthday on the anniversary of the day e most recently declared as eir Agoran Birthday.". Based on my two earlier points, then, today is the anniversary of my Agoran Birthday.
DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Birthday
Thanks, D. Margaux. The only thing I can think of is that "declaring" might not be an action (and hence not covered by Rule 1728), or that it might be synonymous with "announcing" or "publishing", which Rule 478 allows me to do. I'm guessing that Rule 217 and game custom defeat those arguments, but I thought I'd give it a try, since I don't have much experience with game custom. On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 01:17, D. Margaux wrote: > > Welcome! > > I assign that CFJ to myself > > Under the rule, I believe that a player CAN declare a date to be eir birthday > only “with Agoran Consent,” which is a particular method of taking actions > described in Rule 1728 that requires that you first announce your intent to > perform the action, and give players an opportunity to support or object to > it, and the action is permitted only if more people support than oppose. So > based on that, I think the CFJ is FALSE, and I judge it that way unless there > is something I am missing. > > > On Feb 12, 2019, at 7:52 PM, James Cook wrote: > > > > I register. I go by "Falsifian" in online settings, or just my real name > > "James" if you prefer. > > > > My Agoran Birthday is the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13, > > 2018. > > > > I initiate a CFJ for the statement "It is Falsifian's Agoran Birthday today > > (the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13, 2019).". > > > > Here is my argument: > > > > 1. I declared earlier in this message that is my Agoran Birthday was one > > year ago. This is a simple matter of fact that anyone reading this can > > verify. The rules cannot change this fact. > > > > 2. The day I first registered is unknown, because I haven't told anyone. > > For example, as far as anyone else knows, I might have first registered a > > very long time ago under a different name. > > > > 3. Rule 2585 says: "As long as the day a player first registered remains > > unknown, it is considered to be eir Agoran Birthday on the anniversary of > > the day e most recently declared as eir Agoran Birthday.". Based on my two > > earlier points, then, today is the anniversary of my Agoran Birthday.
