[sw-issues] [Issue 4579] Special Character Shortcuts

2008-04-23 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4579





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Apr 23 12:41:28 + 
2008 ---
gudmund - 'If you know of a general method for getting special characters via
sensible keyboard actions in platforms where this doesn't work in OpenOffice
today, please tell us all.' 

I thought this was exactly what the macro I posted last May did...

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[sw-issues] [Issue 20878] Q-PCD Show spaces at end o f a line in Writer

2007-11-29 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=20878





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Nov 30 01:13:08 + 
2007 ---
I'm still digesting scottydm's very interesting post.

In the meanwhile, I wonder whether this approach isn’t over-complicating the
matter? My assumption was always that the margin is inviolate. When I hit it,
it’s a brick wall and I have to start again at the next line. This is surely
what the naïve user would expect?

To add to that I would say that having space characters in the margin, and even
worse, invisible space characters in the limbo of the ‘grey area’ is another
fundamental breakdown in wysiwyg. How are you supposed to edit them?

I would do it like this:

1: the cursor is at the end of the line ie against the margin, after typing a 
space.
a) the next character is non-space: move to the next line, and show the 
non-space
b) the next character is a space: move to the next line, and show the space.

2: the cursor is at the end of the line after typing a non-space
a) the next character is non-space: restart the whole word on the next line,
leaving the last space dangling on this line. If the word is longer than the
line, just split it before this character.
b) the next character is space: leave it dangling at the end of the line and
move the cursor to the start of the next line.

If in the 1b case the user continues typing spaces, you continue showing them -
just as many as he wants. I can't see any good reason to do otherwise, and all
the alternatives I can see ultimately result in a wysiwyg failure. 

Hyphenation occurs when this word is completed and obviously may result in
different line endings.

This approach seems to me to avoid all questions of what you do with the margin
(which of course may not even exist) and the grey area; to make it immediately
and intuitively obvious to a user what is happening; and to be very simple to
implement. You (and I!) may not like the user typing spaces at the start of a
line, but that’s his choice – we can’t know in advance all possible formats he
wants to achieve – what is important is that he should be able to see everything
he’s done and edit it in a completely predictable manner.

On a couple of other points raised:
- positioning the cursor at the end of the line: I think this is fine, but it
should be treated in all respects as though it were actually positioned at the
start of the next. [I think that's what scotty said.]
- justification: here I think the basic principle is that all leading and
trailing spaces are hidden - they should take no part in the calculation.
Similarly with centred text. [Ditto]

Oh well, that’s my twopennyworth... off to bed!

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[sw-issues] [Issue 20878] Q-PCD Show spaces at end o f a line in Writer

2007-11-28 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=20878





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Nov 28 10:26:45 + 
2007 ---
Hi - I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their contribution to this
issue. I would say more but am moving flat and have only just assembled my
computer temporarily to read my email...

My only quick comment is that 'I assume you mean that if a user types scads of
spaces within a paragraph, they pretty much deserve whatever ugliness they get'
sums it up very well for me. It is in fact the essence of wysiwyg.

As a naive user when I type a space I expect to see it at the cursor, not at the
end of the previous line, or anywhere else. When I type a character, space or
otherwise, up against the margin, I expect it to wrap to the next line not carry
on into the margin. The result may be dreadful to the purists, but there are no
surprises for me and if I don't like it I can correct it until I do. Or ask
someone more knowledgeable for guidance on a better way of achieving my aims.

I don't think it's the job of the software to save the user from himself, rather
it is to present the simplest behaviour that meets his expectations. When I get
settled in a day or two I'll look more at this but would recommend looking very
carefully at ms word - when I still used it I was never aware of the end of a
line as a concept so it's obviously doing something right.

Anyway, thanks again.

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[sw-issues] [Issue 20878] Q-PCD Show spaces at end o f a line in Writer

2007-11-09 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=20878





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Nov  9 10:52:50 + 
2007 ---
Barry - yes I can easily believe it's been around longer than that. I guess it
was an aberration of the original code that's just never had the priority to get
sorted out. I wonder what would have happened if they'd done the same thing to
the letter 's' as they do to space? So every time you tried to write 'impress'
at the end of a  line it started swallowing the 's's. That would have been
regarded as a real bug and certainly been fixed; quite why spaces are treated as
second class citizens I've no idea.

I gather from what you're saying that you lay out your letters by adding a
carriage return at the end of each line? This is not the way to use a word
processor. It is designed for continuous text input - hard carriage returns are
only used to separate paragraphs, not lines. If you are doing this I suggest you
find someone with good experience of using a word processor to introduce you to
the basics. Alternatively, there are lots of texts on the net eg
http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/alummis/beginnerword/index.htm or
http://www.aarp.org/learntech/computers/howto/a2003-07-21-howtousewordprocessor.html
that will explain it.

In the meanwhile, believe me, Microsoft Word does nothing special with spaces at
start or end of line, and works beautifully. As should OpenOffice.

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[sw-issues] [Issue 20878] Q-PCD Show spaces at end o f a line in Writer

2007-11-09 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=20878





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Nov  9 12:46:11 + 
2007 ---
fmc – I am personally not worried about what it looks like in justified
alignment, since if I’m that concerned about layout I generally use InDesign
which has much more comprehensive text formatting capabilities.

However, I was obviously talking in a specific context – that of text entry,
which I doubt many perform in justified mode since the constant text movement is
very disconcerting. Ragged right is the norm, and that is how the default
template starts you off.

When I do choose justification I expect to see spaces disappear at the end of a
line – this is behaviour I have specifically requested after all, and if I don’t
like it I can go back to ragged right and add the justification when I’ve
finished. What I do not expect is for this behaviour to spill over into the
normal case, where it is plainly inappropriate.

‘Do you really think we are ignoring this because we don't want to fix this?’
It’s been a very long time, it would be one logical conclusion. 

‘Did it ever came to your mind that there might be more important bugs to fix /
features to implement?’ That thought had occurred to me, of course, but
personally I’d much prefer that the core worked well than that yet more new
features I’ll never use were added.

‘It's all a question of resources and priorities.’ Hard to disagree with that.
But I fear that it’s a fundamental problem of open source software that
usability gets low priority. This bug for instance has been raised innumerable
times. At a guess I would say every single user of Writer has been irritated by
it at some time. But it will never get priority because there’s a workround
(just back up a few spaces to find out what you’ve written) and because most of
the ‘5% of the functionality’ users like me who would like to see it fixed will
never find their way to the bugfix voting system.

I’ve obviously upset you with my emotive remark. Please forgive me – one howl of
protest every couple of years against something that irritates me every single
day is surely not too excessive? I thought I'd been very restrained :-)

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[sw-issues] [Issue 20878] Q-PCD Show spaces at end o f a line in Writer

2007-11-08 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=20878





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Nov  8 22:58:59 + 
2007 ---
Barry - forget it. Nobody will ever do anything about this any way. It was first
raised in 2003. I pointed out over two years ago that it was a fundamental
breakdown in WYSIWYG. Since then as far as I can see nobody has done a thing. It
appears in OpenOffice, in Thunderbird, in several Bulletin Boards that I use
that reuse OpenOffice code. You may have noticed it's here in this data entry
box. I hit it several times a day. Every day.

It doesn't need any of your suggestions. What it needs is that when I type a
space, I get a space. Just like any other character. I get a space at the start
of a line, in the middle, and in the end. That's all that's required - treat a
space like any other character.

It's shameful that this bug should still exist after all this time and all these
reports.

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[ui-issues] [Issue 6847] provide a method to insert accented characters on English keybd

2007-05-16 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=6847





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed May 16 09:49:34 + 
2007 ---
Just to tidy this, there's a mildly updated version of the macro that resolves
this issue on my site http://www.billhibbert.com. It covers most western
european languages and several special characters as well.

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[sw-issues] [Issue 4579] Special Character Shortcuts

2007-05-08 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4579





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue May  8 16:08:52 + 
2007 ---
AS
'The office knows all the stuff you describe here'. Thanks for the laugh. If the
office knows so much why have I and thousands of other users been struggling for
years to insert special characters when there's been a perfectly good solution
available all along?

Being a diligent sort of person, I spent an hour or so searching through a few
pages of google hits trying to find out how to write an extension. None of them
gave me any useful information. Eventually I found Chapter 5 of the OO
Developers Guide. This is completely incomprehensible to someone who needed a
day to learn enough OO and Basic to write a 10-line macro.

So I've decided to follow the lead shown by all the oo bug reports I've filed or
supported. I've put it on an enhancement list and given it a target date for
completion of 'none'. That should sort the matter nicely.

Meanwhile, for anyone living in the real world who wants a copy of this
invaluable little macro, I've put some corrected code on my website
http://www.billhibbert.com with accompanying notes, and anyone who wants it can
go and get it...


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[sw-issues] [Issue 4579] Special Character Shortcuts

2007-05-05 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4579





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat May  5 16:05:21 + 
2007 ---
I've been thinking about this and attach a solution. It's a trivial macro that
looks up a character pair in a table and if it finds a match substitutes a
corresponding accented character. The macro can be bound to any key of the
user's choice - I use ctrl+shift+z and it works fine for me. Note it only needs
ONE special key regardless of how many translate pairs you've defined.

So if I type e: then immediately press ctrl+shift+z to invoke the macro, the two
characters are replaced by ë. If I don't call the macro then nothing is changed.

This version of the macro includes a translate table that covers most European
languages and a few odd symbols such as © which are useful to me, but it's
trivial to modify for any specific purpose or preference. It could certainly be
made faster, but is designed for simplicity and clarity. It would be nice if:

1) somebody could compile a master list of translations, so that users could
subset as they needed;
2) it could be generalised to work with spreadsheets and presentations etc - at
the moment it only works in text documents. To go further would require far more
time than I have available (it's not the doing it's the learning how!)

Hope it's useful...

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[sw-issues] [Issue 4579] Special Character Shortcuts

2007-05-05 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4579





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat May  5 16:09:28 + 
2007 ---
Created an attachment (id=44886)
macro to insert accented character


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[ui-issues] [Issue 6847] provide a method to insert accented characters on English keybd

2007-05-05 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=6847





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat May  5 16:12:58 + 
2007 ---
I've added a comment and attachment to
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4579 that resolves this
problem, at least for me. Go there to read more.

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[sw-issues] [Issue 4579] Special Character Shortcuts

2007-05-05 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4579





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat May  5 22:57:14 + 
2007 ---
Discoleo, as far as I'm concerned, to my problem it's a solution, not a
workaround. The only improvement that really interests me is having it available
for spreadsheets too, but I don't care enough to make the necessary changes 
myself.

Thanks for your character suggestions, but the macro already has over 120
diacriticals, including as far as I know all those in Hungarian and Romanian
(although since I speak neither of those languages, I can't be certain). I
suggest you examine the downloaded file, or even install the macro on your
system and try it!

I should say that I do not intend to do any further work on this - it's
available for those who want to use it, and that's it as far as I'm concerned.

Ref Ç it's in many other words eg façon, rançon etc. Ref Ù I can't think of
another French example although I'm sure one exists, but it is also used in
Italian eg virtù. There's no cost to having it in the list so it's there.

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[sw-issues] [Issue 4579] Special Character Shortcuts

2007-05-05 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4579


User redi2go changed the following:

What|Old value |New value

  CC|'asrail,gudmund,kamataki,m|'asrail,gudmund,kamataki,m
|anens,peschtra,pmike,regin|anens,peschtra,pmike,redi2
|a'|go,regina'





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[ui-issues] [Issue 6847] provide a method to insert accented characters on English keybd

2007-05-04 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=6847





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri May  4 10:51:10 + 
2007 ---
discoleo

I don't want to get into a great argument about this. The summary says 'provide
a method to insert accented characters on English keyboard'. I don't really care
how it works, but would not consider a solution that had side-effects to be
acceptable, because it's not necessary.

My concern is that if the proposed solution is made too ambitious eg a wholesale
rewrite of autoreplace, nothing will ever get done because nobody will take on
such a big job without a huge number of votes, which it will never get. (For
instance, I don't even use autoreplace, let alone want it enhancing.)

We just need something here that is simple, quick, and friendly that will cover
the 90% case. The rewrite of autoreplace can be tackled separately under your
67500 enhancement request.

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[sw-issues] [Issue 4579] Special Character Shortcuts

2007-04-30 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4579





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Apr 30 12:44:39 + 
2007 ---
I would like to support opaben's suggestion for this issue - ie use the same
mechanism as Word. It's simple, straightforward, and provides lots of extra
characters without using up too many keyboard shortcuts.

This issue has been around forever and really needs to get sorted - to do even
simple translation work I have to switch to Word, one more reason why I have to
continue to buy MS Office upgrades...

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[sw-issues] [Issue 4579] Special Character Shortcuts

2007-04-30 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4579





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Apr 30 12:48:30 + 
2007 ---
Also, should not issue 6847 be folded into this one - they're obviously the same
basic problem.

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[ui-issues] [Issue 6847] provide a method to insert accented characters on English keybd

2007-04-30 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=6847





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Apr 30 15:19:50 + 
2007 ---
discoleo

the facility you describe is not what I want. I need a method of writing café
without either having to type (and remember!) ALT+0,2,2,3 or go to the special
characters menu to insert e acute. The problem with using autocorrect is that it
has side-effects - it tends to 'correct' stuff that wasn't wrong in the first
place. In your example, for instance, Amanda's would be changed to Amandäs -
not at all what I want. This is particularly a problem if you work on text from
a variety of sources which may use different vocabularies.

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[sw-issues] [Issue 61715] table row height changed by inserting alt+numpad char

2006-02-09 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=61715





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Feb  9 07:06:43 -0800 
2006 ---
I belive mru's analysis is correct as the row height increase occurs when the
'2' digit is pressed and I now see that if you do it with Num Lock ON it works
OK. On that basis I think I should withdraw this issue.

Can I only take this opportunity to ride my hobbyhorse - none of this would
happen if OO had a sensible means of inputting accented characters eg as Word's
CTRL+'+e

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[sw-issues] [Issue 55370] Applying Style does not i nclude keep with next

2006-02-08 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=55370





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Feb  8 04:10:14 -0800 
2006 ---
I have this problem on Windows 2000 with OpenOffice 2.0. The test file acts as
described - when opened, the Heading 1 is stranded at the bottom of the first
page. If I right click and open paragraph, do nothing and close with OK, the
Heading 1 migrates correctly to the next page. If I close the paragraph with
Cancel, the Heading 1 remains where it is. I have the same behaviour with other
fonts and styles.

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[sw-issues] [Issue 61715] New - table row height cha nged by inserting alt+numpad char

2006-02-06 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=61715
  Issue #:|61715
  Summary:|table row height changed by inserting alt+numpad char
Component:|Word processor
  Version:|OOo 2.0
 Platform:|PC
  URL:|
   OS/Version:|Windows 2000
   Status:|UNCONFIRMED
Status whiteboard:|
 Keywords:|
   Resolution:|
   Issue type:|DEFECT
 Priority:|P3
 Subcomponent:|editing
  Assigned to:|mru
  Reported by:|redi2go





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Feb  6 14:53:12 -0800 
2006 ---
If I enter an accented character in a table [eg to get e acute by pressing
Alt+0223] it increases the height of the current row. Any subsequent rows
created by tabbing from the last cell in the table are also of the increased 
height.

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[framework-issues] [Issue 20878] Q-PCD Show spaces at end of a line in Writer

2005-04-27 Thread redi2go
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=20878





--- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Apr 27 04:38:24 -0700 
2005 ---
I am completely amazed that this does not have higher priority - it infuriates
me every single time I use OpenOffice to prepare text. I would classify it as a
fundamental breakdown in the WYSIWYG paradigm.

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