Re: [Amanda-users] Cloud Backup...but to my own Data Center
On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 14:17 -0500, Frank Smith wrote: Hopifan wrote: Thank you for response. To clarify, my current setup is: about 30 remote offices with between2-50gb of data each. Each office has Symantec BackupExec running ($700 initial cost), each server in each location has a tape drive ($800 initial cost) and 10 tapes ($300 initial cost), so basically to backup these 30 offices locally cost me 30x1800=$54,000 first year + admin overhead and time, etc. so the question is: what can I use to backup data from these 30 offices to my central DataCenter in Wisconsin? I was doing some testing backing up one of the offices using BackupExec over the WAN I got 200mgb/hr transfer ratio, not too good. SO I need some software with good compression or other algorythm to pump data over the WAN, is Amanda or Zmada the answer? If your links are slow compared to the size of your data, it may be more efficient to use something like rsync to make a central copy of all the remote servers, and then just back up that copy locally using Amanda or even your existing backup software. That way you only have to copy the unchanging parts of your data once across the WAN, and from then on the only WAN traffic will be new or changed blocks of data, and it won't load your WAN to have your full tape backups run as often as you like. I currently use this approach with some offsite servers and it works well, however I'm strictly in the Linux world and don't know how well the Windows rsync programs (such as DeltaCopy) actually perform. Perhaps someone else on the list can comment on that. Frank Hi, I know it sounds like a little bit of admin hell, but anyway my 2 cents: Use AFS (which has a windows client) with replication to make sure that new/ modified data is replicated from the remote to the central site. Than do backups on the central site with the tool of your choice (e.g. amanda/ zmanda ;-)) The setup has quite some benefits: - AFS is well supported with Windows - Large replication tasks only need to be done once - Changing data is backup almost immediately - Less headache with bandwidth usage Of course there are some downsides: - You need more storage space (as every file is stored twice) - AFS _can_ be a hell to administrate Regards --- Mr. Olli Ps: yeah I don't like rsync ;-))
Re: [Amanda-users] Cloud Backup...but to my own Data Center
In the meantime, can't he just backup across his WAN using a server at his central office? On Tue, 2009-06-02 at 16:58 -0700, Dustin J. Mitchell wrote: On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Hopifan amanda-fo...@backupcentral.com wrote: Now the question- I am looking for solution, something like Zmanda, but instead of backing up to Amazon S3 I want to backup data from these 30 offices to my Data Center. I would appreciate any help. I was looking at Data Domain solution but it was too expensive. Ideally Cloud Backup but to my own location would be the best. If you're interested in putting some development work into this, we are working on a project called libzcloud (http://github.com/zmanda/libzcloud/tree/) which Amanda will use to talk to arbitrary clouds. If you write an interface from libzcloud to your cloud system, then Amanda will be able to use it. Dustin -- Matt Burkhardt, M.Sci. Technology Management m...@imparisystems.com (301) 682-7901 502 Fairview Avenue Frederick, MD 21701 http://www.imparisystems.com
Re: [Amanda-users] Cloud Backup...but to my own Data Center
On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 6:10 AM, Matt Burkhardt m...@imparisystems.com wrote: In the meantime, can't he just backup across his WAN using a server at his central office? Yes, absolutely. I got caught up in the my own cloud thing (which I think is a cool and valuable concept!), but centrally locating the server is definitely the simpler solution :) Dustin -- Open Source Storage Engineer http://www.zmanda.com
Re: [Amanda-users] Cloud Backup...but to my own Data Center
On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Hopifan amanda-fo...@backupcentral.com wrote: Thank you guys for taking time and responding to my question. I am fine with using dedicated server in my Datacenter for backing up my remote locations, but again what solution/software I would use for that? Cloud Backup is so cheap comparing to Data Domain which I can not afford. So what software would be the best to backup remote offices to Central location. As I mentioned I have between 2-50 gb in each office and each office is on T1. All locations run W2K or W2K3. Well, you would figure that folks on this mailing list would recommend Amanda.. Dustin -- Open Source Storage Engineer http://www.zmanda.com
Re: [Amanda-users] Cloud Backup...but to my own Data Center
Dustin J. Mitchell wrote: On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Hopifan amanda-fo...@backupcentral.com wrote: Thank you guys for taking time and responding to my question. I am fine with using dedicated server in my Datacenter for backing up my remote locations, but again what solution/software I would use for that? Cloud Backup is so cheap comparing to Data Domain which I can not afford. So what software would be the best to backup remote offices to Central location. As I mentioned I have between 2-50 gb in each office and each office is on T1. All locations run W2K or W2K3. Well, you would figure that folks on this mailing list would recommend Amanda.. To expand on that just a bit -- I seem to recall he's running Netbackup on a bunch of sites, each having to change their own tapes. He's interested in redirecting those backups to a central site. Cloud Backup sounds like the idea. Data Domain is actually a product that implements Netbackup's API so that they could all point to a central storage system. However, as he says, it's probably pretty expensive. So, the alternative is to re-implement all of those individual backup systems. Set up a centralized Amanda backup server with some very large disk arrays or a tape library (or both), and then shut down Netbackup and install Amanda client on all those remote sites. That's a lot of work (a lot of remote sites); and, ultimately he'll have to calculate some bandwidth/throughput stuff to figure out what it can handle and how much he'll be able to back up. But, if he can get it to work, the cost savings would be substantial. No expense for Data Domain and eliminate the ongoing costs of Netbackup (as well as personnel costs for changing tapes at all the remote sites). Zmanda support and enterprise editions would be substantially less. It's possible he misunderstood things and thought that there was some way of setting up a central server and then pointing all those Netbackup instances at it. -- --- Chris Hoogendyk - O__ Systems Administrator c/ /'_ --- Biology Geology Departments (*) \(*) -- 140 Morrill Science Center ~~ - University of Massachusetts, Amherst hoogen...@bio.umass.edu --- Erdös 4
Re: [Amanda-users] Cloud Backup...but to my own Data Center
Hopifan wrote: Thank you for response. To clarify, my current setup is: about 30 remote offices with between2-50gb of data each. Each office has Symantec BackupExec running ($700 initial cost), each server in each location has a tape drive ($800 initial cost) and 10 tapes ($300 initial cost), so basically to backup these 30 offices locally cost me 30x1800=$54,000 first year + admin overhead and time, etc. so the question is: what can I use to backup data from these 30 offices to my central DataCenter in Wisconsin? I was doing some testing backing up one of the offices using BackupExec over the WAN I got 200mgb/hr transfer ratio, not too good. SO I need some software with good compression or other algorythm to pump data over the WAN, is Amanda or Zmada the answer? If your links are slow compared to the size of your data, it may be more efficient to use something like rsync to make a central copy of all the remote servers, and then just back up that copy locally using Amanda or even your existing backup software. That way you only have to copy the unchanging parts of your data once across the WAN, and from then on the only WAN traffic will be new or changed blocks of data, and it won't load your WAN to have your full tape backups run as often as you like. I currently use this approach with some offsite servers and it works well, however I'm strictly in the Linux world and don't know how well the Windows rsync programs (such as DeltaCopy) actually perform. Perhaps someone else on the list can comment on that. Frank -- Frank Smith fsm...@hoovers.com Sr. Systems Administrator Voice: 512-374-4673 Hoover's Online Fax: 512-374-4501
Re: [Amanda-users] Cloud Backup...but to my own Data Center
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 at 1:46pm, Hopifan wrote Can you point me into right direction? If Amanda is the one to go with then sure, why not. I need to know the pricing structure, compression ratio, other compabilities like VSS support. If you want to correspond directly with me, I am at marek.plas...@veoliatransportation.com Erm, methinks that some time spent with google would answer most of these questions for you. I also wonder why you are using a mailing list dedicated to one particular piece of backup software to try to research backup software in general. -- Joshua Baker-LePain QB3 Shared Cluster Sysadmin UCSF
Re: [Amanda-users] Cloud Backup...but to my own Data Center
On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Hopifan amanda-fo...@backupcentral.com wrote: Now the question- I am looking for solution, something like Zmanda, but instead of backing up to Amazon S3 I want to backup data from these 30 offices to my Data Center. I would appreciate any help. I was looking at Data Domain solution but it was too expensive. Ideally Cloud Backup but to my own location would be the best. If you're interested in putting some development work into this, we are working on a project called libzcloud (http://github.com/zmanda/libzcloud/tree/) which Amanda will use to talk to arbitrary clouds. If you write an interface from libzcloud to your cloud system, then Amanda will be able to use it. Dustin -- Open Source Storage Engineer http://www.zmanda.com
