Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic
The disadvantage that the cell phone text messaging had against cw is that the entire message had to be typed before transmitting, kind of like a store and forward process therefore a lag in data receipt. I don't see how any of the systems Jim mentioned would be any faster if you account for the time it takes to capture the data prior to sending. CW is instant. I think that the whole idea of that contest on the Jay Leno Tonight Show was to demonstrate that some old processes still work well today. But...one thing to consider is that to send a cw message the receiptant must also know cw(thousands of people), whereas I can send a text message on a cell phone to most anyone who speaks the English language (millions of people). Tom K3TVC/nc - Original Message - From: "Jim Wilhite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service" Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic > Correct there was Brian, telephone texting vs. good old CW. Wonder how it > would have come out if it had been good old CW against good old 100 wpm > narrow shift RTTY? How about PSK 31 or any of the other digital modes in > use today by hams? > > > > > > > Not so fast, Jim... > > > > Actually there was a video from a TV show recently where > > a ham sending a message via CW got a message through > > FASTER than a digityal message sent by more modern > > technical means. I am sure many of us saw that. > > > > It was shown on a national televised show. It made me VERY > > proud of our wonderful Samuel "F.B." Morse and his simple > > code that has so enriched the lives of countless ten > > thousands of hams! > > > > Yes, morse code won the speed test, and this was within > > the last year or two! > > > >> Prior to the 1980s code was the preferred method of emergency > >> communications > >> because of reliability. Today that is fluid. There are much faster ways > >> to > >> communicating written messages and instructions now in use. __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic
Correct there was Brian, telephone texting vs. good old CW. Wonder how it would have come out if it had been good old CW against good old 100 wpm narrow shift RTTY? How about PSK 31 or any of the other digital modes in use today by hams? Not so fast, Jim... Actually there was a video from a TV show recently where a ham sending a message via CW got a message through FASTER than a digityal message sent by more modern technical means. I am sure many of us saw that. It was shown on a national televised show. It made me VERY proud of our wonderful Samuel "F.B." Morse and his simple code that has so enriched the lives of countless ten thousands of hams! Yes, morse code won the speed test, and this was within the last year or two! Prior to the 1980s code was the preferred method of emergency communications because of reliability. Today that is fluid. There are much faster ways to communicating written messages and instructions now in use. __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic
Not so fast, Jim... Actually there was a video from a TV show recently where a ham sending a message via CW got a message through FASTER than a digityal message sent by more modern technical means. I am sure many of us saw that. It was shown on a national televised show. It made me VERY proud of our wonderful Samuel "F.B." Morse and his simple code that has so enriched the lives of countless ten thousands of hams! Yes, morse code won the speed test, and this was within the last year or two! > Prior to the 1980s code was the preferred method of emergency > communications > because of reliability. Today that is fluid. There are much faster ways > to > communicating written messages and instructions now in use. __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic
All this verbiage are my opinions on the state of hobby. Yours may be different, probably are. Have a good day, see on the bands for as long as we have them. Bob W6TR SNIP Well Bob: You said a mouth full and you are correct. I am one of those 20wpm extra's and was a general when all the bands were taken away from me in the late 60's. I guess i have kept that grudge for may years. but i do get on just about every day. Very little SSB any more too much crap and foul mouths and neo-nazis. Use to get on RTTY and still do but AM and CW are my loves now. Yes theARRL did not get the great shot in the arm they wanted Oh it happened for a while when all those who would not put the hard work and time into getting their ticket . we able to get it the New EZ way. but they got bored So the ARRL in their wisdom sic pushed to lower the test again. got a few more to come in who just wanted to guess at the test from the test Q&A that was passed out. they too dropped out bored. Why ? I really think they if you are given something for nothing you do not value it much. I value my ticket as one of the highest peices of paper i have ! I worked hard for it and I use it every day. again just another old Farts thoughts on the matter. ZUT 73 Tony - Anthony W. DePrato WA4JQS QCWA # 23602 10X # 3621 A1-OP FISTS # 10573 VBA # 55 AMI # 1274 NCDXF # 1036 RNARS # 1309 SKCC # 1227 DXCC PHONE DXCC RTTY DXCC CW Lis. 1962 Calls Held VP8BZL VP8SSI 3Y0PI V31SS ZD8JQS WA4JQS/ZS1 WA4JQS/4K1 WA4JQS/KC4 __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic
Bob, Your reply is appreciated. One of my pet peeves is that this topic seems to always be presented in a "shoot the messenger" mentality. I did not write the rules but have to live with them. If anyone has any angst about this topic it should be referred to the FCC and ARRL as you mentioned, not with those who happen to test under the rules of their time. See ya on the air! Tom K3TVC/nc - Original Message - From: "Bob Maser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service" Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic > Tom, your discourse on the no code licensing was great. I have never looked > down at a n/c Extra as being inferior, except in jest, but I can remember > having one hell of a time getting my code speed up past 20wpm at the same > time I had the theory down pat. They never seemed in sync. I never had to > earn my living in the electronics business so the theory was often Greek to > me, still is. But understand that a lot of Extras that did have to pass the > 20 wpm requirement feel that the FCC or ARRL sold them down the river by > eliminating it. Lets face it, the ARRL is really concerned that the Ham > Radio hobby is going downhill and that means less sales of product and > magazines and they decided that n/c would give the hobby a shot in the arm. > They were wrong but it is too late to double back. This hobby is indeed > rounding the last turn and the finish line is within sight. Deny this all > you want but go to a hamfest and count the young hams. You won't need to > even take off your shoes. I usually go to Dayton at least 3 out 5 years and > this year the Hamvention attendance was under 20,000. It used to take more > than a day to go through the flea market, it was less than 60% full this > year and I'll bet that it is even smaller next year. Another indicator of > the state of this hobby is the infamous QST magazine. There are issues that > contain nothing interesting to hams that have been in the hobby for any > length of time. If you scan the Sept issue you can learn how to make a > straight key from a door hinge, how to make a UPS that you can buy ready > made for under $75 that works better, revisit a extended double zepp that > has been in the ARRL Handbook for the last 20 years, a product review of a > radio that nobody buys, and a frequency counter. Then comes the final > insult; the biggest advertiser in the magazine offers junk for sale, a lot > of which are direct copies of other manufacturers' product that are higher > priced at least partly because they don't employ prison inmate labor. > > All this verbiage are my opinions on the state of hobby. Yours may be > different, probably are. > > Have a good day, see on the bands for as long as we have them. > > Bob W6TR > > > - Original Message - > From: "Tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service" > > Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 12:37 AM > Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic > > > >I see this topic come up so many times during the course of a year so I > >guess that I should turn in my Extra-light license because I'm not as smart > >or as worthy as those who think they are better than others because they > >possess the "real" license earned back in the good-old days. I'm convinced > >that they are the same people who walked to school 20 miles each way uphill > >in the snow while carrying their little sister. I, on the other hand, had > >to ride a bus about 10 miles...a piece of cake and I didn't learn > >fortitude. (Plus my little sister sat beside me) > > > > I've decided to demand that the FCC require me to learn 50wpm code and > > have a doctorate in Electrical Engineering instead of just an A.A. in > > Electronic Technology from my Community College. Of course while I'm at it > > I will demand that they require ALL Advanced and old-time Extras to learn > > and prove proficiency on each and every mode of transmission including > > voice whether they have a desire to use those modes or not.. They will > > have to speak proper English and use proper punctuation in William > > Shakespeare style while using voice mode. No hillbilly talk like I hear > > now on the radio. No African-American, French, German, Italian, or other > > dialects or accents. They must also demonstrate AM, FM, SSB, LSB,USB, DSB, > > digital, RTTY, spread spectrum and on and on and on. Since they are so > > smart they will also have to build every piece of equipment that they use > > including RTTY p
Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic
I only got my extra so I wouldnt have to remember the band edges, now they moved them. What tudu ?? DE K0NG PS, I dont care if anyone only tested to One WPM, as long as they get on the Air __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic
Some where around here I have a mid 1970s license manual. The last time I looked at it, the Advance question pool was about 75 questions and the extra had 90. As a former technical person, I liked the old tests because they did not ask me how long a VE or VEC had to forward paperwork to the FCC. They did not ask something about Earth Stations. But I had to know how to read a meter, calculate parallel/series resistance, what antennas do what. The same information is in the pools today, just in a different format. What they did do is cover the basics in the General, apply further technical language in the Advanced and even further in the Extra. In all of them were rules and regulations to assure the applicant knew where they could operate and with what mode. Prior to the 1980s code was the preferred method of emergency communications because of reliability. Today that is fluid. There are much faster ways to communicating written messages and instructions now in use. With it came the less emphasis on code. Now I consider anyone who holds the Extra as my equal. The fine points of working on gear, understanding intercept points, adjacent channel interference. over modulation/key clicks is not for everyone. The reason - most of our time on the air is fellowship, comradeship and just having a good time. It is when any of the various governmental agencies need communication that we really are needed. Learn the workings of what ever mode you like and become an expert, but most of all be ready to help and cooperate in times of emergencies. That is our primary justification of having frequencies. One other point, the number of licensees has increased over the years. Who cares if they are 15 or 50. Many people who near retirement are discovering the enjoyment of radio and what you are allowed to accomplish. Eventually those youngsters will discover the magic or Ham Radio. 73 Jim W5JO Tom, your discourse on the no code licensing was great. I have never looked down at a n/c Extra as being inferior, except in jest, but I can remember having one hell of a time getting my code speed up past 20wpm at the same time I had the theory down pat. They never seemed in sync. I never had to earn my living in the electronics business so the theory was often Greek to me, still is. But understand that a lot of Extras that did have to pass the 20 wpm requirement feel that the FCC or ARRL sold them down the river by eliminating it. Lets face it, the ARRL is really concerned that the Ham Radio hobby is going downhill and that means less sales of product and magazines and they decided that n/c would give the hobby a shot in the arm. They were wrong but it is too late to double back. This hobby is indeed rounding the last turn and the finish line is within sight. Deny this all you want but go to a hamfest and count the young hams. You won't need to even take off your shoes. I usually go to Dayton at least 3 out 5 years and this year the Hamvention attendance was under 20,000. It used to take more than a day to go through the flea market, it was less than 60% full this year and I'll bet that it is even smaller next year. Another indicator of the state of this hobby is the infamous QST magazine. There are issues that contain nothing interesting to hams that have been in the hobby for any length of time. If you scan the Sept issue you can learn how to make a straight key from a door hinge, how to make a UPS that you can buy ready made for under $75 that works better, revisit a extended double zepp that has been in the ARRL Handbook for the last 20 years, a product review of a radio that nobody buys, and a frequency counter. Then comes the final insult; the biggest advertiser in the magazine offers junk for sale, a lot of which are direct copies of other manufacturers' product that are higher priced at least partly because they don't employ prison inmate labor. All this verbiage are my opinions on the state of hobby. Yours may be different, probably are. Have a good day, see on the bands for as long as we have them. Bob W6TR __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic
Tom, your discourse on the no code licensing was great. I have never looked down at a n/c Extra as being inferior, except in jest, but I can remember having one hell of a time getting my code speed up past 20wpm at the same time I had the theory down pat. They never seemed in sync. I never had to earn my living in the electronics business so the theory was often Greek to me, still is. But understand that a lot of Extras that did have to pass the 20 wpm requirement feel that the FCC or ARRL sold them down the river by eliminating it. Lets face it, the ARRL is really concerned that the Ham Radio hobby is going downhill and that means less sales of product and magazines and they decided that n/c would give the hobby a shot in the arm. They were wrong but it is too late to double back. This hobby is indeed rounding the last turn and the finish line is within sight. Deny this all you want but go to a hamfest and count the young hams. You won't need to even take off your shoes. I usually go to Dayton at least 3 out 5 years and this year the Hamvention attendance was under 20,000. It used to take more than a day to go through the flea market, it was less than 60% full this year and I'll bet that it is even smaller next year. Another indicator of the state of this hobby is the infamous QST magazine. There are issues that contain nothing interesting to hams that have been in the hobby for any length of time. If you scan the Sept issue you can learn how to make a straight key from a door hinge, how to make a UPS that you can buy ready made for under $75 that works better, revisit a extended double zepp that has been in the ARRL Handbook for the last 20 years, a product review of a radio that nobody buys, and a frequency counter. Then comes the final insult; the biggest advertiser in the magazine offers junk for sale, a lot of which are direct copies of other manufacturers' product that are higher priced at least partly because they don't employ prison inmate labor. All this verbiage are my opinions on the state of hobby. Yours may be different, probably are. Have a good day, see on the bands for as long as we have them. Bob W6TR - Original Message - From: "Tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service" Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 12:37 AM Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic I see this topic come up so many times during the course of a year so I guess that I should turn in my Extra-light license because I'm not as smart or as worthy as those who think they are better than others because they possess the "real" license earned back in the good-old days. I'm convinced that they are the same people who walked to school 20 miles each way uphill in the snow while carrying their little sister. I, on the other hand, had to ride a bus about 10 miles...a piece of cake and I didn't learn fortitude. (Plus my little sister sat beside me) I've decided to demand that the FCC require me to learn 50wpm code and have a doctorate in Electrical Engineering instead of just an A.A. in Electronic Technology from my Community College. Of course while I'm at it I will demand that they require ALL Advanced and old-time Extras to learn and prove proficiency on each and every mode of transmission including voice whether they have a desire to use those modes or not.. They will have to speak proper English and use proper punctuation in William Shakespeare style while using voice mode. No hillbilly talk like I hear now on the radio. No African-American, French, German, Italian, or other dialects or accents. They must also demonstrate AM, FM, SSB, LSB,USB, DSB, digital, RTTY, spread spectrum and on and on and on. Since they are so smart they will also have to build every piece of equipment that they use including RTTY printers, and make their own batteries with material mined by them too. After all if they buy a battery then they are lazy. Also, since communication had it's roots in early cultures they must show proficiency on smoke signals and beating logs with sticks. I'm 55 years old and have had to readjust my career to changing times. I worked for 3 companies in 28 years and now 10 companies in the last 4 years within the IT field. It is a different world with much younger people in charge. START ADJUSTING! There is plenty for everyone to enjoy in this hobby and I'm humbled by the learned ones who share their knowledge without desire of receiving platitudes but BORED by those fixated on the code issue especially. 73, Tom K3TVC/nc I signed with the /nc because it matters so much to you real Hams to know that you are better. Oh God, I'm not worthy. hi hi - Original Message - From: "Bob Maser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Discussion of AM Radio in the Amate
Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic
"I signed with the /nc because it matters so much to you real Hams to know that you are better. Oh God, I'm not worthy. hi hi" Its nice to know that some still know there place .. klc - Original Message - From: Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Saturday, October 14, 2006 0:37 am Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic To: Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service > I see this topic come up so many times during the course of a year __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion gone off topic
I see this topic come up so many times during the course of a year so I guess that I should turn in my Extra-light license because I'm not as smart or as worthy as those who think they are better than others because they possess the "real" license earned back in the good-old days. I'm convinced that they are the same people who walked to school 20 miles each way uphill in the snow while carrying their little sister. I, on the other hand, had to ride a bus about 10 miles...a piece of cake and I didn't learn fortitude. (Plus my little sister sat beside me) I've decided to demand that the FCC require me to learn 50wpm code and have a doctorate in Electrical Engineering instead of just an A.A. in Electronic Technology from my Community College. Of course while I'm at it I will demand that they require ALL Advanced and old-time Extras to learn and prove proficiency on each and every mode of transmission including voice whether they have a desire to use those modes or not.. They will have to speak proper English and use proper punctuation in William Shakespeare style while using voice mode. No hillbilly talk like I hear now on the radio. No African-American, French, German, Italian, or other dialects or accents. They must also demonstrate AM, FM, SSB, LSB,USB, DSB, digital, RTTY, spread spectrum and on and on and on. Since they are so smart they will also have to build every piece of equipment that they use including RTTY printers, and make their own batteries with material mined by them too. After all if they buy a battery then they are lazy. Also, since communication had it's roots in early cultures they must show proficiency on smoke signals and beating logs with sticks. I'm 55 years old and have had to readjust my career to changing times. I worked for 3 companies in 28 years and now 10 companies in the last 4 years within the IT field. It is a different world with much younger people in charge. START ADJUSTING! There is plenty for everyone to enjoy in this hobby and I'm humbled by the learned ones who share their knowledge without desire of receiving platitudes but BORED by those fixated on the code issue especially. 73, Tom K3TVC/nc I signed with the /nc because it matters so much to you real Hams to know that you are better. Oh God, I'm not worthy. hi hi - Original Message - From: "Bob Maser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service" Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion Plus, if he had half a brain, he would have upgraded to an Extra back in the late 60's, early 70's. It's sour grapes. I agree that a pre no-code Extra is more valuable than post no code but he missed the boat. My feeling is that my 20WPM Extra will always be worth more(to me at least) than a no code Extra. I've always felt that no code extras should sign /nc when in the Extra part of the bands. Bob W6TR - Original Message - From: "Donald Sanders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service" Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion Because with your 1968 Advanced you cannot go to the Extra Only Frequencies. Healthfully yours, Don W4BWS - Original Message - From: "Darrell, WA5VGO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service" Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [AMRadio] Phone band expansion > On that subject, I can't >>understand why the Advanced hams don't go down and pass the Extra written >>exam, especially since the code requirements have been eliminated. >>My, >>it's so easy to get on radio these days. >> >>Bob W6TR Why would I want to downgrade from my 1968 advanced to the new extra? Darrell, WA5VGO __ AMRadio mailing list List Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/amradio Partner Website: http://www.amfone.net Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:AMRadio@mailman.qth.net
