[amsat-bb] Re: SatPC32 Auto Doppler

[Erich Eichmann]

Hello Howard,
you can not explicitely disable automatic Doppler correction but leave
transparent tuning enabled. The only "trick" I know is:
Select a geostat. satellite that is in range for you (i.e. LES 9). The 
Doppler shift
will be close to 0 and the Doppler shift change will be (almost) 0. In 
Doppler.SQF enter a data line with the wanted  basic frequencies. I tested 
ASTRA 1A (audible in Europe) which I added to group "Geostat" in menu 
"Satellites".  The Doppler shift  on UHF is about 30 Hz and almost no 
changes.

73s, Erich, DK1TB

- Original Message - 
From: "Howard Kowall" 
To: "AMSAT-BB@amsat.org" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 10:16 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: SatPC32 Auto Doppler


> Follow up to my last post
> So really what I want to do is to make 2 tranceiver,to act like a
> FT847,FT736,IC910,etc.
> Thanks again
> Howard
> VE4ISP
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Howard Kowall" 
> To: "AMSAT-BB@amsat.org" 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 3:06 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] SatPC32 Auto Doppler
>
>
>> Hello to everyone
>> Is it possible to use SatPC32 12.8a without auto Doppler correction?
>> I use 2 separate transceiver one for uplink the other for downlink,all I
>> want to do is be able to change the downlink freq. and let the uplink
>> follow according to the Doppler sqf file.I want no automatic Doppler
>> correction just transparent tuning.
>> Thanks to all who read this
>> Howard
>> VE4ISP
>>
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[amsat-bb] PREDICT/Linux question

[Rich Dailey]

After a Linux hiatus of a few years, I setup an spare pc with Linux Mint, an
offshoot of Ubuntu. Through the software manager (gee, thing have become easier 
since
my last Linux adventure) I was able to install the latest Predict software.  
When I run it, it
first asks for my station info. I enter this, and at the last  it kicks me 
back out to the terminal
prompt.
Anyone else had this issue?

Thanks,
Rich, N8UX

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[amsat-bb] Re: PREDICT/Linux question

[Andrew Rich]

Yes several times

You can edit /root/.predict/predict.qth

VK4TEC
 -27.300
 -153.10
 25

I am -27.300 S 153.10 E

Yes predict is backwards

Andrew


- Original Message - 
From: "Rich Dailey" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:49 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] PREDICT/Linux question


> After a Linux hiatus of a few years, I setup an spare pc with Linux Mint, 
> an
> offshoot of Ubuntu. Through the software manager (gee, thing have become 
> easier since
> my last Linux adventure) I was able to install the latest Predict 
> software.  When I run it, it
> first asks for my station info. I enter this, and at the last  it 
> kicks me back out to the terminal
> prompt.
> Anyone else had this issue?
>
> Thanks,
> Rich, N8UX
>
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/17/09 
19:26:00

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[amsat-bb] Satellite Thermal Lesson

[Robert Bruninga]

Lesson learned on Satellite Thermal.

For years, we have been trying to demonstrate to students the
extreme differences in Temperature of a satellite based simply
on its color.  In space, far from earth, here is what you should
get for three identical satellites:

Black will be about +55 deg F 
White will be about -60 deg F
Aluminum will be about +225 deg F

(from memory anyway)... But we have never been able to see the
extreme temperature of the aluminum in our vacuum chamber.  Of
course, we are not using a SUN, but an incandescent lamp which
has 95% of its radiation as heat and only 5% as light, so we
attribtuted our wishy-washy results as due to the lack of real
solar spectrum.

This year, we finally have a Tvac chamber that has a liguid
nitrogen cold plate so we can actually better simulate the
blackness (and cold) of space..  Again, same result.  Aluminum
was about the same as black.  This was a frustrating result from
this new chamber.

Then I noticed the fingerprints on the aluminum.  I cleaned the
aluminum with a swab of alcohol to eliminate all the surface
contaminants, and fingerprints and re-did the test...

BINGO.  Now the temperature of the aluminum goes up and off
scale HOT, way way different from the black or White.  And now
the WHITE also goes colder..

So just the thinneest innvisible layer of surface contamination
completely changed the thermal emissivity of the Aluminum.  And
we all know this anyway, since "low-E" coatings of glass and
other materials is now so common.  It is only the outer surface
of molecules that set the absorbtivity and emissivity...  And
the differnce between Black and Aluminum is 30-to-1 (if the
aluminum is clean)...  That's why we wrap baked potatos in
Aluminum foil! (don't use greasy hands)...

Of course we always clean our actual spacecraft to clean-room
conditions before flight, so this does not impact our on-orbit
results, but it sure does make a difference in the lab when we
are demonstrating absorbtivity and emissivity in the chamber
with samples handled by the students!

When I get a chance, Ill post the results...

Bob, WB4APR

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[amsat-bb] Re: Satellite Thermal Lesson

[Bruce]

On 11/18/2009 8:34 AM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
> Lesson learned on Satellite Thermal.
>
> For years, we have been trying to demonstrate to students the
> extreme differences in Temperature of a satellite based simply
> on its color.  In space, far from earth, here is what you should
> get for three identical satellites:
>
> Black will be about +55 deg F
> White will be about -60 deg F
> Aluminum will be about +225 deg F
snip...

This was sent by Bob on April 26, 1996. I found it interesting and kept it.

KEEPING ELECTRONICS COOL IN THE SUN.

WHile building a GPS unit for mounting on my dashboard and noting the
comming summer months, I looked up the difference in absorption and
emissivity for Aluminum, Black paint, and white paint.  Satellite builders
are well aware of these facts, but many of us landlubbers are not.

ALUMINUM will get 30 TIMES hotter than WHITE paint!   (in a vacuum)

The following table is for a vacuum and accounts for RADIATIVE effects. It
does not account for convective or conductive cooling (air)..

 Absorbtion  Emissivity  RatioTemp C

ALUMINUM   .4 .03   11:1  400
STEEL  .6 .4 3:2  150
BLACK PAINT.9 .9 1:1  110
WHITE PAINT.25.851:3   72

Most people are aware that Black gets hotter than white, but the fact that
bright, reflective, shinny Aluminum gets 10 times hotter than BLACK is a
surprise to most people...

So, if it sits in the sun, paint it white!  If you dont believe this, put
an aluminum baking sheet in the sun.  I baked my first roof mount GPS
stand alone tracker thinking that the upside down baking pan would reflect
the sun...  WRONG! Painted it white and it is now as cool as a cucumber.

The difference in Aluminum is the POOR EMISSIVITY at infrared.  It can't
radiate the heat away...





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[amsat-bb] Re: PREDICT/Linux question

[Rich Dailey (Gmail)]

Thanks!  Got it working... Rich, N8UX

At 09:11 AM 11/18/2009, you wrote:
>Yes several times
>
>You can edit /root/.predict/predict.qth

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[amsat-bb] Re: Satellite Thermal Lesson

[i8cvs]

Hi Bob, WB4APR

Very interesting !

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

- Original Message -
From: "Robert Bruninga" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:34 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellite Thermal Lesson


> Lesson learned on Satellite Thermal.
>
> For years, we have been trying to demonstrate to students the
> extreme differences in Temperature of a satellite based simply
> on its color.  In space, far from earth, here is what you should
> get for three identical satellites:
>
> Black will be about +55 deg F
> White will be about -60 deg F
> Aluminum will be about +225 deg F
>
> (from memory anyway)... But we have never been able to see the
> extreme temperature of the aluminum in our vacuum chamber.  Of
> course, we are not using a SUN, but an incandescent lamp which
> has 95% of its radiation as heat and only 5% as light, so we
> attribtuted our wishy-washy results as due to the lack of real
> solar spectrum.
>
> This year, we finally have a Tvac chamber that has a liguid
> nitrogen cold plate so we can actually better simulate the
> blackness (and cold) of space..  Again, same result.  Aluminum
> was about the same as black.  This was a frustrating result from
> this new chamber.
>
> Then I noticed the fingerprints on the aluminum.  I cleaned the
> aluminum with a swab of alcohol to eliminate all the surface
> contaminants, and fingerprints and re-did the test...
>
> BINGO.  Now the temperature of the aluminum goes up and off
> scale HOT, way way different from the black or White.  And now
> the WHITE also goes colder..
>
> So just the thinneest innvisible layer of surface contamination
> completely changed the thermal emissivity of the Aluminum.  And
> we all know this anyway, since "low-E" coatings of glass and
> other materials is now so common.  It is only the outer surface
> of molecules that set the absorbtivity and emissivity...  And
> the differnce between Black and Aluminum is 30-to-1 (if the
> aluminum is clean)...  That's why we wrap baked potatos in
> Aluminum foil! (don't use greasy hands)...
>
> Of course we always clean our actual spacecraft to clean-room
> conditions before flight, so this does not impact our on-orbit
> results, but it sure does make a difference in the lab when we
> are demonstrating absorbtivity and emissivity in the chamber
> with samples handled by the students!
>
> When I get a chance, Ill post the results...
>
> Bob, WB4APR
>
> ___
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> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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[amsat-bb] Re: Satellite Thermal Lesson

[Idle-Tyme]

Morning Bruce and everyone.

This really amazes me.  Now is these spec's below for in a vacuum of 
space?  Or on the earth's surface with Air.

Reason asking is, if this is indeed true,  then why does every solar 
heat panel be painted black?

Not air panels  by the numbers given below an Air panel being made black 
is near perfect it re radiates almost everything it absorbs.

But a closed loop liquid system  where tubing is in the panel with fins 
attached to gather the energy. absorb it, and let the liquid take the 
heat away.

Every one of these are also painted black.

in this case wouldn't it be better to leave it bare aluminum?  for it 
absorbs it but doesn't re radiate it away so it has more efficiency of 
getting the heat into the liquid.

anyone?

Joe WB9SBD

*The Original Rolling Ball Clock
http://www.idle-tyme.com*



Bruce wrote:
> On 11/18/2009 8:34 AM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>   
>> Lesson learned on Satellite Thermal.
>>
>> For years, we have been trying to demonstrate to students the
>> extreme differences in Temperature of a satellite based simply
>> on its color.  In space, far from earth, here is what you should
>> get for three identical satellites:
>>
>> Black will be about +55 deg F
>> White will be about -60 deg F
>> Aluminum will be about +225 deg F
>> 
> snip...
>
> This was sent by Bob on April 26, 1996. I found it interesting and kept it.
>
> KEEPING ELECTRONICS COOL IN THE SUN.
>
> WHile building a GPS unit for mounting on my dashboard and noting the
> comming summer months, I looked up the difference in absorption and
> emissivity for Aluminum, Black paint, and white paint.  Satellite builders
> are well aware of these facts, but many of us landlubbers are not.
>
> ALUMINUM will get 30 TIMES hotter than WHITE paint!   (in a vacuum)
>
> The following table is for a vacuum and accounts for RADIATIVE effects. It
> does not account for convective or conductive cooling (air)..
>
>  Absorbtion  Emissivity  RatioTemp C
>
> ALUMINUM   .4 .03   11:1  400
> STEEL  .6 .4 3:2  150
> BLACK PAINT.9 .9 1:1  110
> WHITE PAINT.25.851:3   72
>
> Most people are aware that Black gets hotter than white, but the fact that
> bright, reflective, shinny Aluminum gets 10 times hotter than BLACK is a
> surprise to most people...
>
> So, if it sits in the sun, paint it white!  If you dont believe this, put
> an aluminum baking sheet in the sun.  I baked my first roof mount GPS
> stand alone tracker thinking that the upside down baking pan would reflect
> the sun...  WRONG! Painted it white and it is now as cool as a cucumber.
>
> The difference in Aluminum is the POOR EMISSIVITY at infrared.  It can't
> radiate the heat away...
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>   
> 
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.72/2511 - Release Date: 11/18/09 
> 01:50:00
>
>   
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[amsat-bb] Re: Satellite Thermal Lesson

[Rocky Jones]

Please do post the results.  excellent

Robert WB5MZO

> From: bruni...@usna.edu
> To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:34:18 -0500
> Subject: [amsat-bb]  Satellite Thermal Lesson
> 
> Lesson learned on Satellite Thermal.
> 
> For years, we have been trying to demonstrate to students the
> extreme differences in Temperature of a satellite based simply
> on its color.  In space, far from earth, here is what you should
> get for three identical satellites:
> 
> Black will be about +55 deg F 
> White will be about -60 deg F
> Aluminum will be about +225 deg F
> 
> (from memory anyway)... But we have never been able to see the
> extreme temperature of the aluminum in our vacuum chamber.  Of
> course, we are not using a SUN, but an incandescent lamp which
> has 95% of its radiation as heat and only 5% as light, so we
> attribtuted our wishy-washy results as due to the lack of real
> solar spectrum.
> 
> This year, we finally have a Tvac chamber that has a liguid
> nitrogen cold plate so we can actually better simulate the
> blackness (and cold) of space..  Again, same result.  Aluminum
> was about the same as black.  This was a frustrating result from
> this new chamber.
> 
> Then I noticed the fingerprints on the aluminum.  I cleaned the
> aluminum with a swab of alcohol to eliminate all the surface
> contaminants, and fingerprints and re-did the test...
> 
> BINGO.  Now the temperature of the aluminum goes up and off
> scale HOT, way way different from the black or White.  And now
> the WHITE also goes colder..
> 
> So just the thinneest innvisible layer of surface contamination
> completely changed the thermal emissivity of the Aluminum.  And
> we all know this anyway, since "low-E" coatings of glass and
> other materials is now so common.  It is only the outer surface
> of molecules that set the absorbtivity and emissivity...  And
> the differnce between Black and Aluminum is 30-to-1 (if the
> aluminum is clean)...  That's why we wrap baked potatos in
> Aluminum foil! (don't use greasy hands)...
> 
> Of course we always clean our actual spacecraft to clean-room
> conditions before flight, so this does not impact our on-orbit
> results, but it sure does make a difference in the lab when we
> are demonstrating absorbtivity and emissivity in the chamber
> with samples handled by the students!
> 
> When I get a chance, Ill post the results...
> 
> Bob, WB4APR
> 
> ___
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[amsat-bb] Re: PocketSat, RIP ???

[Amir Findling K9CHP]

Unfortunately the $1.99 version is only good for 40 fixed satellites 
none of which are of any use to ham radio operators (other than the 
ISS). You need to buy the full version to have access to your choice of 
satellites, and that version is more costly, about $24.00 or so.

* 73 de K9CHP Amir Findling, Member ARRL, ARRL/ W5YI VE, WAC, WAS, DXCC
* www.K9CHP.net 
  Blog: http://k9chp.blogspot.com 
* Senior K9 Handler
* K9 Certification Tester, NYS Federation of SAR Teams
* 1st Special Response Group (1SRG)



Clint Bradford wrote:
> Unfortunately, I heard "one of us" report last week that "PocketSat  
> isn't really popular any more, with the demise of the Palm computing  
> platform ... "
>
> That's woefully incorrect on many fronts.
>
> Palm users are plentiful, and Jim is still supporting us. PocketSat+  
> is still the best Palm-platform satellite tracking software available,  
> IMHO. Support still at ...
>
> http://www.bigfattail.com
>
> But Jim has not let his programming skills stagnate. We now have  
> PocketSat3 for the Apple iPhone and iPod touch devices. It provides  
> gorgeous screen graphics for our passes. Available in the Apple Store.  
> Docs and support at Jim's new site at ...
>
> http://www.pocketsat.com/
>
> It works marvelously on my new 32GB iPod touch. AMSAT's keps are one  
> of the four default sets for painless download. Recently added is a  
> "View Constellation" mode - which overlays your view of the heavens on  
> a sat pass.
>
> There are several "satellite trackers" in the Apple Store ... from  
> free to $.099 to a few bucks. I have tried five others. NONE of them  
> come close to the feature set, ease of use, and product support that  
> one receives with PocketSat3.
>
> Clint Bradford, K6LCS
> http://www.work-sat.com
> 909-241-7666
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>   
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[amsat-bb] Re: Satellite Thermal Lesson

[Bill Ress]

Hi Bob,

Very interesting work. I appreciate you sharing the results. This issue 
of thermal stabilization has been a very interesting "art" although some 
will say it's a science. Your aluminum cleanliness find goes a long way 
to helping me understand it as science.

Regards...Bill - N6GHz

Robert Bruninga wrote:
> Lesson learned on Satellite Thermal.
> 
> For years, we have been trying to demonstrate to students the
> extreme differences in Temperature of a satellite based simply
> on its color.  In space, far from earth, here is what you should
> get for three identical satellites:
> 
> Black will be about +55 deg F 
> White will be about -60 deg F
> Aluminum will be about +225 deg F
> 
> (from memory anyway)... But we have never been able to see the
> extreme temperature of the aluminum in our vacuum chamber.  Of
> course, we are not using a SUN, but an incandescent lamp which
> has 95% of its radiation as heat and only 5% as light, so we
> attribtuted our wishy-washy results as due to the lack of real
> solar spectrum.
> 
> This year, we finally have a Tvac chamber that has a liguid
> nitrogen cold plate so we can actually better simulate the
> blackness (and cold) of space..  Again, same result.  Aluminum
> was about the same as black.  This was a frustrating result from
> this new chamber.
> 
> Then I noticed the fingerprints on the aluminum.  I cleaned the
> aluminum with a swab of alcohol to eliminate all the surface
> contaminants, and fingerprints and re-did the test...
> 
> BINGO.  Now the temperature of the aluminum goes up and off
> scale HOT, way way different from the black or White.  And now
> the WHITE also goes colder..
> 
> So just the thinneest innvisible layer of surface contamination
> completely changed the thermal emissivity of the Aluminum.  And
> we all know this anyway, since "low-E" coatings of glass and
> other materials is now so common.  It is only the outer surface
> of molecules that set the absorbtivity and emissivity...  And
> the differnce between Black and Aluminum is 30-to-1 (if the
> aluminum is clean)...  That's why we wrap baked potatos in
> Aluminum foil! (don't use greasy hands)...
> 
> Of course we always clean our actual spacecraft to clean-room
> conditions before flight, so this does not impact our on-orbit
> results, but it sure does make a difference in the lab when we
> are demonstrating absorbtivity and emissivity in the chamber
> with samples handled by the students!
> 
> When I get a chance, Ill post the results...
> 
> Bob, WB4APR
> 
> ___
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> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 
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[amsat-bb] Re: Satellite Thermal Lesson

[Edward Cole]

At 05:46 AM 11/18/2009, Bruce wrote:
>On 11/18/2009 8:34 AM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
> > Lesson learned on Satellite Thermal.
> >
> > For years, we have been trying to demonstrate to students the
> > extreme differences in Temperature of a satellite based simply
> > on its color.  In space, far from earth, here is what you should
> > get for three identical satellites:
> >
> > Black will be about +55 deg F
> > White will be about -60 deg F
> > Aluminum will be about +225 deg F
>snip...
>
>This was sent by Bob on April 26, 1996. I found it interesting and kept it.
>
>KEEPING ELECTRONICS COOL IN THE SUN.
>
>WHile building a GPS unit for mounting on my dashboard and noting the
>comming summer months, I looked up the difference in absorption and
>emissivity for Aluminum, Black paint, and white paint.  Satellite builders
>are well aware of these facts, but many of us landlubbers are not.
>
>ALUMINUM will get 30 TIMES hotter than WHITE paint!   (in a vacuum)
>
>The following table is for a vacuum and accounts for RADIATIVE effects. It
>does not account for convective or conductive cooling (air)..
>
>  Absorbtion  Emissivity  RatioTemp C
>
>ALUMINUM   .4 .03   11:1  400
>STEEL  .6 .4 3:2  150
>BLACK PAINT.9 .9 1:1  110
>WHITE PAINT.25.851:3   72
>
>Most people are aware that Black gets hotter than white, but the fact that
>bright, reflective, shinny Aluminum gets 10 times hotter than BLACK is a
>surprise to most people...
>
>So, if it sits in the sun, paint it white!  If you dont believe this, put
>an aluminum baking sheet in the sun.  I baked my first roof mount GPS
>stand alone tracker thinking that the upside down baking pan would reflect
>the sun...  WRONG! Painted it white and it is now as cool as a cucumber.
>
>The difference in Aluminum is the POOR EMISSIVITY at infrared.  It can't
>radiate the heat away...
>
>
>
>
>
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>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

Yep, a hard lesson for the uninitiated working in the desert in 
summer: lay those shiny metal tools in the sun for ten minutes and 
you better wear gloves to pick em up.  They get extremely hot and 
will burn skin.  We always took care to lay the tools in shade or 
cover them with a cloth.

Regarding painting dishes white, all the dishes at Goldstone were 
painted white.  What you may find interesting was that receive 
waveguide was painted white while transmit waveguide was 
flat-black.  The heat buildup in the transmit waveguide required 
water-cooling by silver soldering cooling tubes to the surface of the 
waveguide.  I suppose the black color aided black-body radiation.


73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
==
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500-KHz/CW, 144-MHz EME, 1296-MHz EME
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com
== 

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[amsat-bb] Re: Satellite Thermal Lesson

[Edward Cole]

At 05:46 AM 11/18/2009, Bruce wrote:
>On 11/18/2009 8:34 AM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
> > Lesson learned on Satellite Thermal.
> >
> > For years, we have been trying to demonstrate to students the
> > extreme differences in Temperature of a satellite based simply
> > on its color.  In space, far from earth, here is what you should
> > get for three identical satellites:
> >
> > Black will be about +55 deg F
> > White will be about -60 deg F
> > Aluminum will be about +225 deg F
>snip...
>
>This was sent by Bob on April 26, 1996. I found it interesting and kept it.
>
>KEEPING ELECTRONICS COOL IN THE SUN.
>
>WHile building a GPS unit for mounting on my dashboard and noting the
>comming summer months, I looked up the difference in absorption and
>emissivity for Aluminum, Black paint, and white paint.  Satellite builders
>are well aware of these facts, but many of us landlubbers are not.
>
>ALUMINUM will get 30 TIMES hotter than WHITE paint!   (in a vacuum)
>
>The following table is for a vacuum and accounts for RADIATIVE effects. It
>does not account for convective or conductive cooling (air)..
>
>  Absorbtion  Emissivity  RatioTemp C
>
>ALUMINUM   .4 .03   11:1  400
>STEEL  .6 .4 3:2  150
>BLACK PAINT.9 .9 1:1  110
>WHITE PAINT.25.851:3   72
>
>Most people are aware that Black gets hotter than white, but the fact that
>bright, reflective, shinny Aluminum gets 10 times hotter than BLACK is a
>surprise to most people...
>
>So, if it sits in the sun, paint it white!  If you dont believe this, put
>an aluminum baking sheet in the sun.  I baked my first roof mount GPS
>stand alone tracker thinking that the upside down baking pan would reflect
>the sun...  WRONG! Painted it white and it is now as cool as a cucumber.
>
>The difference in Aluminum is the POOR EMISSIVITY at infrared.  It can't
>radiate the heat away...
>
>
>
>
>
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Second thought on this:  I painted my eme dish flat-gray for visual 
environmental reasons, but the color aids melting ice/snow from the 
surface.  It was previously white.


73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
==
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500-KHz/CW, 144-MHz EME, 1296-MHz EME
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com
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[amsat-bb] Re: PocketSat, RIP ???

[D. Craig Fox]

As I posted sometime back, I have been using free Satellite Tracker on my 
iphone.  I cannot imagine any tracking program could be easier to use.  The 
graphics are rather crude compared to ProSat but it is extremely simple to use, 
updates easily and shows information for subsequent passes of any ham sat.  
This program is extremely convenient when I choose to leave the comfort of my 
TS2000 and yagis, and go handheld QRP with the D7 and Elk.
Just my $.02

73s
Craig
N6RSX

-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org]on
Behalf Of Amir Findling K9CHP
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:54 AM
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org >> Amsat BB
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: PocketSat, RIP ???


Unfortunately the $1.99 version is only good for 40 fixed satellites 
none of which are of any use to ham radio operators (other than the 
ISS). You need to buy the full version to have access to your choice of 
satellites, and that version is more costly, about $24.00 or so.

* 73 de K9CHP Amir Findling, Member ARRL, ARRL/ W5YI VE, WAC, WAS, DXCC
* www.K9CHP.net 
  Blog: http://k9chp.blogspot.com 
* Senior K9 Handler
* K9 Certification Tester, NYS Federation of SAR Teams
* 1st Special Response Group (1SRG)



Clint Bradford wrote:
> Unfortunately, I heard "one of us" report last week that "PocketSat  
> isn't really popular any more, with the demise of the Palm computing  
> platform ... "
>
> That's woefully incorrect on many fronts.
>
> Palm users are plentiful, and Jim is still supporting us. PocketSat+  
> is still the best Palm-platform satellite tracking software available,  
> IMHO. Support still at ...
>
> http://www.bigfattail.com
>
> But Jim has not let his programming skills stagnate. We now have  
> PocketSat3 for the Apple iPhone and iPod touch devices. It provides  
> gorgeous screen graphics for our passes. Available in the Apple Store.  
> Docs and support at Jim's new site at ...
>
> http://www.pocketsat.com/
>
> It works marvelously on my new 32GB iPod touch. AMSAT's keps are one  
> of the four default sets for painless download. Recently added is a  
> "View Constellation" mode - which overlays your view of the heavens on  
> a sat pass.
>
> There are several "satellite trackers" in the Apple Store ... from  
> free to $.099 to a few bucks. I have tried five others. NONE of them  
> come close to the feature set, ease of use, and product support that  
> one receives with PocketSat3.
>
> Clint Bradford, K6LCS
> http://www.work-sat.com
> 909-241-7666
> ___
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>
>   
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[amsat-bb] Re: Satellite Thermal Lesson

[Robert Bruninga]

Top Post:  
The huge difference in Aluminum, White and Black will only be
seen in space where there is only radiation heat transfer and no
Conduction and no convection.   On Earth, in air, convection
cooling dominates.  These numbers only apply to Radiation heat
transfer.

Black absorbs 90% of sunlight and emits 90% heat - nice
White absorbs 30% of sunlight and emits 90% heat - cool
Al... Absorbs 30% of sunlight and emits  3% heat - gets hot!

BUT, if you have air, and especially moving air, then anything
can get rid of most of its heat to the air which is a larger
effect.  

Second Lesson:  BUT "natural convection" which we all know cools
things... depends on gravity!  Remove gravity, and there is no
natural convection...  That is why you have to wear earplugs on
the Space Station... Because every little thing has to have a
FAN to move the air.  Without it, things and the air around them
just get hotter and hotter...

> -Original Message-
> From: Idle-Tyme [mailto:n...@mwt.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:33 AM
> To: kk...@amsat.org
> Cc: bruni...@usna.edu; amsat-bb@amsat.org
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellite Thermal Lesson
> 
> Morning Bruce and everyone.
> 
> This really amazes me.  Now is these spec's below for in a 
> vacuum of space?  Or on the earth's surface with Air.
> 
> Reason asking is, if this is indeed true,  then why does 
> every solar heat panel be painted black?
> 
> Not air panels  by the numbers given below an Air panel being 
> made black is near perfect it re radiates almost everything 
> it absorbs.
> 
> But a closed loop liquid system  where tubing is in the panel 
> with fins attached to gather the energy. absorb it, and let 
> the liquid take the heat away.
> 
> Every one of these are also painted black.
> 
> in this case wouldn't it be better to leave it bare aluminum? 
>  for it absorbs it but doesn't re radiate it away so it has 
> more efficiency of getting the heat into the liquid.
> 
> anyone?
> 
> Joe WB9SBD
> 
>  
>  Documents/Sig/CLEAN-IDLE-TYME-LOGO-100-50.jpg> 
> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
> http://www.idle-tyme.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce wrote: 
> 
>   On 11/18/2009 8:34 AM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
> 
> 
>   Lesson learned on Satellite Thermal.
>   
>   For years, we have been trying to demonstrate 
> to students the
>   extreme differences in Temperature of a 
> satellite based simply
>   on its color.  In space, far from earth, here 
> is what you should
>   get for three identical satellites:
>   
>   Black will be about +55 deg F
>   White will be about -60 deg F
>   Aluminum will be about +225 deg F
>   
> 
>   snip...
>   
>   This was sent by Bob on April 26, 1996. I found it 
> interesting and kept it.
>   
>   KEEPING ELECTRONICS COOL IN THE SUN.
>   
>   WHile building a GPS unit for mounting on my dashboard 
> and noting the
>   comming summer months, I looked up the difference in 
> absorption and
>   emissivity for Aluminum, Black paint, and white paint.  
> Satellite builders
>   are well aware of these facts, but many of us 
> landlubbers are not.
>   
>   ALUMINUM will get 30 TIMES hotter than WHITE paint!   
> (in a vacuum)
>   
>   The following table is for a vacuum and accounts for 
> RADIATIVE effects. It
>   does not account for convective or conductive cooling
(air)..
>   
>Absorbtion  Emissivity  RatioTemp C
>   
>   ALUMINUM   .4 .03   11:1  400
>   STEEL  .6 .4 3:2  150
>   BLACK PAINT.9 .9 1:1  110
>   WHITE PAINT.25.851:3   72
>   
>   Most people are aware that Black gets hotter than 
> white, but the fact that
>   bright, reflective, shinny Aluminum gets 10 times 
> hotter than BLACK is a
>   surprise to most people...
>   
>   So, if it sits in the sun, paint it white!  If you dont 
> believe this, put
>   an aluminum baking sheet in the sun.  I baked my first 
> roof mount GPS
>   stand alone tracker thinking that the upside down 
> baking pan would reflect
>   the sun...  WRONG! Painted it white and it is now as 
> cool as a cucumber.
>   
>   The difference in Aluminum is the POOR EMISSIVITY at 
> infrared.  It can't
>   radiate the heat away...
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   ___
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> those of the author.
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> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Ch

[amsat-bb] Re: Satellite Thermal Lesson

[Graham Shirville]

Hi Bob,

Interesting!

As it happens we have included a material science experiment/demonstration 
into the requirements for the educational payload of FUNcube. It will 
actually measure the temperature of two pieces of aluminium facing the same 
direction in space.

We had already concluded to have a black anodised finish on one and a silver 
finish on the other but we will now ensure that a final careful cleaning 
process is undertaken just before the satellite is placed in the deployer.

A very timely "heads up" for us.

Many thanks

Graham
G3VZV

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Bruninga" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:34 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Satellite Thermal Lesson


> Lesson learned on Satellite Thermal.
>
> For years, we have been trying to demonstrate to students the
> extreme differences in Temperature of a satellite based simply
> on its color.  In space, far from earth, here is what you should
> get for three identical satellites:
>
> Black will be about +55 deg F
> White will be about -60 deg F
> Aluminum will be about +225 deg F
>
> (from memory anyway)... But we have never been able to see the
> extreme temperature of the aluminum in our vacuum chamber.  Of
> course, we are not using a SUN, but an incandescent lamp which
> has 95% of its radiation as heat and only 5% as light, so we
> attribtuted our wishy-washy results as due to the lack of real
> solar spectrum.
>
> This year, we finally have a Tvac chamber that has a liguid
> nitrogen cold plate so we can actually better simulate the
> blackness (and cold) of space..  Again, same result.  Aluminum
> was about the same as black.  This was a frustrating result from
> this new chamber.
>
> Then I noticed the fingerprints on the aluminum.  I cleaned the
> aluminum with a swab of alcohol to eliminate all the surface
> contaminants, and fingerprints and re-did the test...
>
> BINGO.  Now the temperature of the aluminum goes up and off
> scale HOT, way way different from the black or White.  And now
> the WHITE also goes colder..
>
> So just the thinneest innvisible layer of surface contamination
> completely changed the thermal emissivity of the Aluminum.  And
> we all know this anyway, since "low-E" coatings of glass and
> other materials is now so common.  It is only the outer surface
> of molecules that set the absorbtivity and emissivity...  And
> the differnce between Black and Aluminum is 30-to-1 (if the
> aluminum is clean)...  That's why we wrap baked potatos in
> Aluminum foil! (don't use greasy hands)...
>
> Of course we always clean our actual spacecraft to clean-room
> conditions before flight, so this does not impact our on-orbit
> results, but it sure does make a difference in the lab when we
> are demonstrating absorbtivity and emissivity in the chamber
> with samples handled by the students!
>
> When I get a chance, Ill post the results...
>
> Bob, WB4APR
>
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[amsat-bb] Arrow Antenna - Mod II

[Clint Bradford]

I just posted photos of another "mod" performed to my Arrow Satellite  
Antenna: the addition of an HT tray.

Helps with "counter-balancing."

Use the PHOTOS link at the top of ...

http://www.work-sat.com

Clint Bradford, K6LCS
909-241-7666
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[amsat-bb] Re: PocketSat3 for iPhone, iPod touch

[Clint Bradford]

 >> ... Unfortunately the $1.99 version is only good for 40 fixed  
sats ...

The two-buck app lets you know if the program runs properly on your  
particular setup.

Again, I have tried six sat tracking apps for my new 32GB iPod touch -  
and PocketSat3 if the finest of the bunch.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS
http://www.work-sat.com
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[amsat-bb] AO-51 back to 9k6 PBBS and telemetry

[Andrew Glasbrenner]

Due to a combination of meeting some of our objectives early and having 
issues with others, we have switched from 38k4 to 9k6 for the last day 
of this scheduled mode. We might be experiencing some desense issues on 
the L uplink with the 38k4, so for the next 24 hours we'd like to 
encourage any L/U 9k6 capable stations to attempt to access the BBS and 
let us know if you are successful. Power is at 2.05 watts, so the 
downlink is strong.

73, Drew KO4MA
AMSAT VP Operations
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[amsat-bb] Thanks for 3 new grids on AO-27 this afternoon!

[Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)]

Hi!

Thanks to John W6ZKH, Alvaro XE2AT, and Ismael XE1AY for 3 new 
grids in the log during an AO-27 pass around 2043 UTC this 
afternoon.  As "advertised", John and Alvaro were on from unusual
spots - W6ZKH from DM07 in California, XE2AT from EK19 in Veracruz
on the Mexican Gulf coast.  XE1AY was also in there from DL91 in
central Mexico, another new one for the log.  

Alvaro - it is nice to see you operate from different parts of 
Mexico once again.  It's been a while.  :-)  

73!




Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK 
http://www.wd9ewk.net/


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[amsat-bb] Re: IC-910 mic connector

[w4upd]

Same as most rigs. It is used to power up the attached mike. Most mike's 
today require power due to preamps being inside the units. This is 
especially true of desk mikes.

Reid, W4UPD


Bob- W7LRD wrote:
> For you 910 owners 
> I am configuring a sequencer for my IC-910.  On the mic connector, what is 
> the +8Vdc 10ma on pin 2 used for?  I am tapping into the PTT for triggering 
> the sequencer and just trying to figure it all out. 
> Thanks 
>
>
> 73 Bob W7LRD Washington State AMSAT area coordinator  
> ___Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. 
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>
>
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[amsat-bb] IC-910 mic connector

[Bob- W7LRD]

For you 910 owners 

I am configuring a sequencer for my IC-910.  On the mic connector, what is the 
+8Vdc 10ma on pin 2 used for?  I am tapping into the PTT for triggering the 
sequencer and just trying to figure it all out. 

Thanks 



73 Bob W7LRD 
Washington State AMSAT area coordinator 
 
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[amsat-bb] Re: Satellite Thermal Lesson

[Robert Bruninga]

> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellite Thermal Lesson
> 
> Fascinating report, Bob - thanks for sharing...
> I recently bought a cheap IR thermometer (gave into a 
> long-standing state of curiosity) and had great fun 
> with it; can't wait to do some more testing, but 
> lots of fun walking around pointing at things 
> in the environment.  

But if you read the docs, the display from such an IR
thermometer is completely meaningless unless you know the
EMISSIVITY of what you are pointing at...

Now the good news is that MOST things have a reasonablly good
emissivity, such as BLACMK and WHITE and Fingerprints etc...
Remember, even my fingerprints changed the emissivity of my
aluminum from about 4% all the way up to near 90% like black and
everything else.

But point that thermometer at CLEAN aluminum and the reading
will be meaningless  for TWO reasons:

1) If it is clean, it will see hardly any IR from the aluminum
and so "it should read a real low temperature"...

2) But it WONT!  The reason is, that ALUMINUM is also a great
REFLECTOR of IR!  So therefore your IR thermometer will not even
see the alluminum plate anyway, because all it will see is what
it sees reflected in the aluminum.

You can prove this to your self by holding a sheet of aluminum
as if it was a mirror.  Point is so y our IR gun see's your body
in its reflection and you will see your body temperature.  Point
the reflection to somethig cold, and it will read the cold
temperature.

So again, those IR thermometers are only as good as the
knowledge of the person using them.  That's why those "window"
snake-oil salesmen can come out and show you all the "leaks" and
lost heat in your home, and sell you thousands of $$$ of new
windows, because they either 1) don't have a clue how their
instruments work, or 2) They do know, but they use the
missleading display to fool the gullible.

Thanks for the reminder about those IR thermometers.  Someone in
our department got some and was running around doing all kinds
of measurements...  Then we showed him how his measurements
didn't mean a thing unless he knew the emissivity of what he was
shooting at...  Sure pulled the rug out from under him.  But
again.  Almost everything around you has a high emissivity...
But if he doesn't know what does and what doesn't, then he is
just messing around... And should not use those numbers for
anything valuable...

Bob, WB4APR





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