[amsat-bb] Re: Satellite location prediction weeks away and JOTA
Predicting ISS out that far is more challenging than the other satellites as the ISS has frequent orbital maneuvers that most of the other amateur satellites do not. The significant factor affecting the other static amateur satellites is variations in orbital drag due to solar activity. ISS is much more dynamic being controlled by reboosts and occasionally maneuvered to avoid debris. Even the crew members moving around can cause subtle changes in the orbit. Best to use ISS predicts that far ahead as a ballpark estimate instead of a pinpoint prediction. Kenneth - N5VHO -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Gus 8P6SM Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:23 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellite location prediction weeks away and JOTA On 09/20/2012 12:42 AM, James Luhn wrote: > I will be working with a Boy Scout troop on October 20 participating > with JOTA (Jamboree On The Air). Is there an easy way to predict when > the various satellites and ISS will be passing overhead on October 20? > It would be nice to know the times and locations for October 20 weeks > ahead. Tracking software should be able to give you an 'ephemeris' table for each pass for the day. For example, the software I use lists FOUR passes on 20th October, for ISS. The best of these is 11:59:20 to 12:09:55 (nearly 13 minutes!). If I drill down on that pass, it lists times, AZ/EL angles, range, doppler correction, etc, from AOS (314°/0°) thru TCA (233°/40°) to LOS (157°/0°) in increments of 30-40 seconds. I would expect any halfway decent tracking software should be able to give the same sort of info. So, tell us what software you want to use, ande maybe someone who uses that particular software can tell you how to get the ephemeris info for the particular date, QTH and satellite(s) you want. But consider that "weeks ahead" means that you are using elements that are weeks old! (Or, they will be, weeks from now when you need to use the data.) So any ephemeris data generated "weeks ahead" should be regenerated periodically as new elements become available, so your ephemeris becomes more accurate the closer you get to the date of interest. -- 73, de Gus 8P6SM The Easternmost Isle ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Satellite location prediction weeks away and JOTA
That's hard to do. ISS periodically reboosts and that changes the orbit. If you use today's keps you could for example be off by several minutes or even more. If you have NOVA or SatPC32 you can do an update the week before and be close assuming no reboost. John AG9D Sent from my iPod On Sep 19, 2012, at 11:42 PM, James Luhn wrote: > Everyone has been so terrific helping me understand every aspect of Satellite > communications. I have another question that may really show my ignorance of > this part of the hobby. Hopefully I will not be banned from ever asking > another dumb question. > > I will be working with a Boy Scout troop on October 20 participating with > JOTA (Jamboree On The Air). Is there an easy way to predict when the various > satellites and ISS will be passing overhead on October 20? It would be nice > to know the times and locations for October 20 weeks ahead. > > I wonder if others will be participating in JOTA by demonstrating the use of > satellites. > > Thanks and 73, > -james > W5AOO > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Bill Tynsn, W3XO, Wins 2012 Barry Goldwater Award
The Radio Club of America announced this week that William A. Tynan, W3XO, is the recipient of its 2012 Barry Goldwater Amateur Radio Award. The award recognizes Bill's lifelong service to the public through amateur radio. It will be presented at the club's annual awards banquet in New York on November 16th. ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, like Bill a club Fellow, will be the keynote speaker. Bill, one of AMSAT's charter members, is a past President and Chairman of the Board. For many years, he conducted QST's monthly column, "The World Above 50 MHz." He is also a past President of the Central States VHF Society. Bill played a key role in the origination of amateur radio from the Space Shuttle and the International Space Station. The Radio Club of America, founded in 1909, is the world''s oldest radio comunications association. For more information, see www.radioclubofamerica.org. Congratulations, Bill! 73 Ray W2RS (Fellow, RCA) ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] back on
to my many sat friends...Bob is finally back on satellites after a ridiculous four months, over the top, make xyl happy, antenna/tower rebuild. The details of which would take too long for this post. Finally got computer controlling antennas/910. Frank (FEG) I just heard you on FO-29. 73 Bob W7LRD Seattle ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AC0RA/m
Well it appears there are quite a few folks that need en23 and some that need en33 so here is the plan. Saturday September 22nd I will work these satellite passes. AO-27 1806utc 1944utc FO-29 1757utc 1843utc Now these passes overlap a little so I will do my best to work both birds. If you don't hear me right away on either I may switch back and forth. Hope to work as many of you as I can. 73 Wyatt AC0RA > Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 01:10:37 -0500 > From: wyattdi...@msn.com > To: amsat-bb@amsat.org > Subject: [amsat-bb] AC0RA/m > > Soon I will be going near the grids of en23 and en33 and was wondering how > much interest there is in those grids? > > Drop me an email if you need either of those so I know how much effort I > should put into from working those grids. > > Thanks > > Wyatt > AC0RA > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AC0RA/m
Sorry the second fo29 pass is at 1943 not 1843. 73 WyattWyatt Dirks wrote: Well it appears there are quite a few folks that need en23 and some that need en33 so here is the plan. Saturday September 22nd I will work these satellite passes. AO-27 1806utc 1944utc FO-29 1757utc 1843utc Now these passes overlap a little so I will do my best to work both birds. If you don't hear me right away on either I may switch back and forth. Hope to work as many of you as I can. 73 Wyatt AC0RA > Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 01:10:37 -0500 > From: wyattdi...@msn.com > To: amsat-bb@amsat.org > Subject: [amsat-bb] AC0RA/m > > Soon I will be going near the grids of en23 and en33 and was wondering how > much interest there is in those grids? > > Drop me an email if you need either of those so I know how much effort I > should put into from working those grids. > > Thanks > > Wyatt > AC0RA > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: AC0RA/m
wyattdirks wrote: Sorry the second fo29 pass is at 1943 not 1843. 73 WyattWyatt Dirks wrote: Well it appears there are quite a few folks that need en23 and some that need en33 so here is the plan. Saturday September 22nd I will work these satellite passes. AO-27 1806utc 1944utc FO-29 1757utc 1843utc Now these passes overlap a little so I will do my best to work both birds. If you don't hear me right away on either I may switch back and forth. Hope to work as many of you as I can. 73 Wyatt AC0RA > Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 01:10:37 -0500 > From: wyattdi...@msn.com > To: amsat-bb@amsat.org > Subject: [amsat-bb] AC0RA/m > > Soon I will be going near the grids of en23 and en33 and was wondering how > much interest there is in those grids? > > Drop me an email if you need either of those so I know how much effort I > should put into from working those grids. > > Thanks > > Wyatt > AC0RA > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] FITSAT-1
JAXA plans to deploy five cubesats from ISS at the early morning on 28th September. The first two satellites (RAIKO, WE WISH) are deployed around 00:10 - 00:20 JST by manually. The second three satellites (FITSAT-1, NanoRacks,and TechEdSat) are deployed around 01:30 - 01:40 JST by remote. JST(Japan Standard Time) advances 9 hours from GMT. JAXA will broadcast the deployment: http://iss.jaxa.jp/iss/jaxa_exp/hoshide/library/live/ FITSAT starts to send the beacon 30 min after deployment. Please send the signal report and your postal address to fits...@hotmail.co.jp and also cc to tan...@fit.ac.jp. You will receive the verification card shown in: http://www.fit.ac.jp/~tanaka/fitsat.shtml The orbit is almost the same as ISS. FITSAT delays 200m from ISS for one cycle around the world. As it goes around 16 times a day, it delays 3.2km per day. If 10 days passed, FITSAT passes the same point of ISS after 4 sec (32km/8km=4). The beacon frequency 437.250MHz of FITSAT-1 conflicts with the satellite PRISM of Tokyo Univ. Please confirm that the CW starts "HI DE NIWAKA JAPAN ..." 73 JA6AVG Takushi Tanaka ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Decoding Keps
Thanks, Domenico. Comparing the two-line keps with the AMSAT format has been informative. Unfortunately the AMSAT data omits the two fields that I'm looking for confirmation on. David, ky7dr On 2012-09-19 23:45, i8cvs wrote: Hi David, KY7DR I suggest you to compare the 2 line NASA orbital data with the AMSAT Keplerian elements for the same day and you will get the answere to your questions. Example for OSCAR-7 DECODE 2-LINE ELSETS WITH THE FOLLOWING KEY: 1 AU 00 0 0 B. . 0-0 0-0 0 DDDZ 2 A EEE. FFF. GGG HHH. III. JJ.KZ KEY: A-CATALOGNUM B-EPOCHTIME C-DECAY D-ELSETNUM E-INCLINATION F-RAAN G-ECCENTRICITY H-ARGPERIGEE I-MNANOM J-MNMOTION K-ORBITNUM Z-CHECKSUM Two line NASA orbital data for orbit K or i.e. numbar 73100 AO-07 1 07530U 74089B 12256.61218065 -.0027 0-0 1-3 0 4795 2 07530 101.4099 250.4681 0012001 109.6272 250.6089 12.53591141731001 AMSAT orbital data for the same Epoch revolution i. e. the same orbit numbar 73100 Satellite: AO-07 Catalog number: 07530 Epoch time: 12256.61218065 Element set: 479 Inclination: 101.4099 deg RA of node: 250.4681 deg Eccentricity:0.0012001 Arg of perigee: 109.6272 deg Mean anomaly: 250.6089 deg Mean motion: 12.53591141 rev/day Decay rate: -2.7e-07 rev/day^2 Epoch rev: 73100 Checksum: 262 About your calculation: If the sign is plus like in +89689-4 your following calculation is correct: +89689-4 = 0.89689 * 10 ^-4 or 0.89689 73" de i8CVS Domenico - Original Message - From: "David A. Rush" To: Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 2:19 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Decoding Keps I've been working on some code to decode the two-line Keplerian data like the ARRL sends out weekly (with a thank-you to AMSAT-NA). A couple of the values are in a somewhat cryptic format, the "BSTAR" and "second derivative of the mean motion". The strings tend to be either a space or a + sign, five digits, usually a minus sign (but seen at least once as a plus sign) and finally another digit, such as: +0-0 +11682-3 0-0 30767-3 0-0 0+0 +0-0 +89689-4 What I have found about this format is that it is "decimal assumed", and examples suggest that +89689-4 = 0.89689 * 10 ^-4 or 0.89689, if I converted that correctly. I'm guessing that the first character is the sign (+ or -) of the number, where a space is assumed positive. I've only seen one example of the 7th character being a plus (and all the digits were zero), so I assume that + or - are valid values for the exponent. I guess the format is fundamentally limited to an exponent between +9 and -9. Am I interpreting it correctly? Any other insight? David, ky7dr ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Date Set For Next SpaceX Launch
http://www.onorbit.com/node/4968 http://www.parabolicarc.com/2012/09/20/first-spacex-cargo-resupply-flight-targeted-for-oct-7/ 73s Bernhard VA6BMJ @ DO33FL ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] The chicken and the egg.syndrome.
My name is Tom and my call is K5VOU. I am a life-member of AMSAT and the ARRL as well as an Extra Class license holder. I have observed both organizations at work from the inside both as a volunteer and a vendor. My satellite ground station is an old Yaesu FT-726 and the antennas are circularly polarized versions of Kent Britain's 'controlled impedance' VHF and UHF on a back yard tripod with the original KR-5400 prototype AZ-El rotor and the AMSAT tracker box connected to an X machine. I am adding an SDR receiver/panadpter asap. BTW: The opinions expressed in this email are mine alone and you are not required to agree with them or condemn them. They are just my opinions and observations. Here are a few observations in brief; 1) AMSAT is a meaningful organization filled with talented and well intentioned people interested in building, operating and communicating through space based radio systems via amateur radio. 2) AMSAT is composed of two special interest groups, the creators of the radio/satellites and the communicators using the satellites. 3) The creators depend on funding from the communicators. 4) The communicators depend on the creators for space based radios through which to communicate. 5) There is 'no free ride' to HEO and the communicators can not raise enough money to purchase a launch at market price. 6) There is no government funding available to AMSAT. 7) The regulatory climate is hostile to amateur radio satellites (ITAR). Opinion; The AMSAT paradigm needs to change to allow the creators to get more radios into space for the communicators. Well funded organizations are building satellites with radios for telemetry and perhaps communication. One possible solution to the observations is to get out of the launch business completely and for the creators to build radios for other organizations creating satellites. These radios would include the capabilities desired by the organization and also include the desired functionality for the communicators in order to get a ride to space. In essence trade radios for rides. This would allow AMSAT to use their knowledge and resources for building space based radios. ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: 22% votes
Amsat is living in a brave new world where launches are fully commercialized and nobody gets a free ride anymore. We will either adapt to that paradigm shift or we will cease to exist. Things were a lot different in the 1960's and 70's. In 1961 an Air Force general had enough authority to allow Oscar 1 to be bolted to the side of his launch vehicle. It is like this in the early days of all new technological ventures. The internet in the early 1990's was a lot more free-wheeling before the "suits" took notice of it and started to regulate it. In today's world the bean counters are fully in charge, and nobody rides for free. When you have commercial companies offering $10 million to place 100 kg in orbit, that becomes the market price, and the only way to lower that price is to expand the supply of launches. This development is especially ironic because Amsat created the entire small satellite industry. There was a time when industry and government experts laughed at us and our little toy satellites. We proved that small satellites are valuable and now everybody wants to launch them. A little company called Surrey Satellite Technology grew out of Amsat endeavors. AO-40 was a once in a lifetime opportunity. ESA offered us a 600 kilogram ride on one of the first Ariane 5 vehicles and we voted to go for it. The reasons for AO-40's failure have been covered before, and further analysis will not add to the discussion. It is not a mistake to throw deep sometimes. If AO-40 had worked as designed, it would have revolutionized amateur radio. We gambled and lost and we will most likely never see another 600 kg launch opportunity. The Eagle project was started about a decade ago in hope of launching a more modest HEO replacement for AO-40, and to be able to do so on a regular basis so that a single satellite failure would not ground the entire program. This effort was overtaken by the tidal wave of cubesats. With every single university on Earth launching a cubesat all of the available launch opportunities are filled with pea-pod launchers and there is no room for Eagle, unless someone writes a check for $10 million. Since cubesats are the only available launches, Amsat has started the Fox program to participate in the cubesat trend. Amsat can help its case by making Fox the best engineered cubesat ever built, which should not be too hard compared to some of the other cubesat designs that I have seen. The university cubesats use amateur radio frequencies as inexpensive data downlinks, but they do not otherwise contribute to the basis and purpose of amateur radio as defined in part 97. Education is mentioned in part 97 but many of these cubesat programs just barely touch on the communications aspects of space flight. I also don't think that most of the student built cubesats are teaching proper engineering techniques, I wonder how many of them have gone through thermal vacuum or radiation testing. Some cubesat groups are still purchasing off the shelf ham HTs and simply removing the plastic case before mounting it in the satellite, because they "don't know how to design an RF system". I doubt that the students are learning the engineering and career skills that they will need to survive in the real world when they get entry level jobs at Boeing or Lockheed Martin after graduation. Nevertheless there is substantial financial support for student built satellites which are perceived to be training and inspiring the next generation of engineers, while ham radio has a public image of being the last century's technology, a hobby of elderly men using Morse code and vacuum tube radios, and nobody with money to donate cares if hams can use a satellite to work rare DX countries. Our link to education is likely to be one of our only ways to secure low cost launches in the future, so we had better find ways to work with and direct the student groups toward building well engineered, long lived satellites with a real communications mission in mind. We can also look around and take notice of what other groups are doing in space. Many different forms of electric propulsion are in development or are now flying, and this technology has the possibility to enable some of the HEO missions that we desire. What if we had been able to propel ARRISSat into a higher orbit instead of helplessly watch it reenter a mere six months after deployment from the ISS? What if we had been able to nudge AO-13 away from its destructive resonance and prevent it from reentering far too early? Another area where Amsat has failed has been in the news media. When Amsat does not receive credit for its accomplishments, others are free to rewrite history and claim that they were the first to accomplish every new thing, sometimes claiming credit for things that Amsat first did three decades ago. The universities have professional public relations staff who know how to plant favorable news stories in the media. When Amsat launched AO-40 some of us tried to g
