[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR - try freeDV instead
Hi, Rather than trying to get a D-Star radio to QSY in less than 5 kHz steps, you could try freeDV with your existing SSB transceivers? D-Star occupies 6.25 kHz bandwidth on the transponder, but freeDV only needs 1.25 kHz (half of a normal SSB voice emission). You can get freeDV (experimental) software here: http://freedv.org/tiki-index.php Unlike the early days of SSB (which has been the subject of various patents) AMBE is unlikely to ever be free, even after the patents expire as DVSI Inc. treats AMBE as a TRADE SECRET, and the only way to get the codec is to buy the chip (a locked TI DSP pre-loaded with AMBE). DVSI's patents cover some of the technology used in AMBE, but these patents do not explain enough about the AMBE process or protocol for someone to write their own AMBE-compatible codec. Once the patents expire, someone with the right resources might be able to hardware reverse engineer the firmware in the AMBE chip (very difficult!) and write a specification of the AMBE process/protocol, which someone else who has never seen inside the AMBE firmware can then use to write a "clean room" AMBE compatible codec. Depending on the laws in force at the time, it might also be illegal to de-bond the AMBE chip and reverse engineer the codec therein. However, all this is probably requires far more effort than it is worth - better to spend time, energy and money on developing an alternate codec that is truly "open". FreeDV uses an OFDM modem (16 QPSK carriers + 1 BPSK pilot), designed to have strong resistance to the multi-path propagation typical on the HF bands that it was originally intended to be used on. However, this means that is has a ~ 12dB peak to average power ratio, which imposes linearity requirements on the transmit signal path. For satellite operation, where path loss is a much greater concern than multi-path, the use of a serial tone modem (single carrier QPSK, BPSK, GMSK, etc) for freeDV would reduce the linearity requirements of the transmit signal path making it easier for an otherwise marginal ground station to produce enough EIRP to work the bird. 73's ZL2WRW Ross Whenmouth ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] FreeDV (was: D STAR)
On 12/11/13 4:10 PM, George Henry wrote: FreeDV would probably work on the transponder birds if your doppler update was fast enough... it has built-in AFC. Your only chance to try it on an FM bird would probably be in the middle of the night... I'd be looking at using FreeDV with the linear birds in its current form, and definitely with Doppler correction. The PAPR is fairly high, so the overall transponder power drain would be no more than for a SSB transmission of similar length. Uplink power control might need to be a bit more accurate, because the satellite's AGC may not be able to track the brief power peaks. Likely to be a case where "less is more" when it comes to uplink power. -- 73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
On 12/11/13 3:25 AM, Stefan Wagener wrote: Yes, It could work as long as software for doppler control (eg SatPc32) can invoke the smaller frequency changes which it actually can (see my other note on the IC-9100). So you would use the built-in DSTAR module for uplink or downlink and the 9600 packet mode with a GMSK node adapter for the other in a full duple radio like the IC-9100. Or you use two radios in 9600 packet mode with 2 node adapters for uplink and downlink as long as they are supported via doppler software and small frequency steps. I think setups using GMSK modems or a DV-RPTR board and an all mode radio with Doppler correction will have the most success on satellite D-STAR, because computer Doppler compensation and the small tuning step size will keep everything within tolerance. Time to pull my DV-RPTR board out and hook it up to the IC-7000. :) -- 73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
On 12/11/13 12:17 AM, Paul Stoetzer wrote: An interesting idea would be trying a FreeDV QSO via satellite. I've made a few QSOs with it on HF and it's an interesting mode. Obviously it's full duty-cycle, so any attempts should be limited to just a few tests, but I'm sure it would work. I suspect you'd need computer Doppler correction with the FDMDV modem. The high PAPR would limit the stress on a linear transponder. The (yet to be finalised) VHF GMSK variant might be easier to handle from a Doppler point of view, though at a higher average power (since it's constant envelope like FM). -- 73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
On 11/11/13 6:44 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:14:26AM -0600, George Henry wrote: There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer will touch it. George, KA3HSW What, apart from encryption being illegal on the amateur bands? Without a radical redesign and a new codec, DStar is just not suitable for amateur use. Proprietary software runs counter to the whole principle of amateur radio, and in this case the encrypted proprietary codec is quite possibly not legal for amateur use. That argument is a furphy. AMBE is readily available in a $20 chip if the authorities want to listen in, it's not encrytion (formally defined as encoding to obscure the meaning of a transmission), it's encoding to minimise the audio data transmitted for intelligible speech. D-STAR itself is open specification, and a significant proportion (a majority now?) of D-STAR gateways run open source software (such as the G4KLX pcrepeatercontroller/ircddbgateway software) on both Icom repeater hardware and homebrew setups. Sure, an open source vocoder would have been nice, but one with suitable performance and available in a form that could be incorporated into radios didn't exist when D-STAR was developed. Had D-STAR been developed today, Codec2 would be a real option (though I'm not yet aware of an implementation suitable for a mobile or HT). -- 73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
FreeDV would probably work on the transponder birds if your doppler update was fast enough... it has built-in AFC. Your only chance to try it on an FM bird would probably be in the middle of the night... George, KA3HSW - Original Message - From: "Paul Stoetzer" To: Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 7:17 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR An interesting idea would be trying a FreeDV QSO via satellite. I've made a few QSOs with it on HF and it's an interesting mode. Obviously it's full duty-cycle, so any attempts should be limited to just a few tests, but I'm sure it would work. 73, Paul, N8HM ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: ISS and the TS 2000
Rich SATPC32ISS should fix you up. Look at SATPC32 in your programs folder, it should be there. I'm not sure about the TS 2000, I use Icom 910 but that shouldn't matter. With SATPC32ISS it should set your radio int split mode with the 2 frequencies that you need for voice. However if you are trying for the 145.825 simplex if you have it input in the Doppler Sqf in Auxiliary Files under the question mark on the tool bar of Satpc32 it should show up in the CAT, then click on the frequency. Clear as mud isn't it ? I may not of described it very well but if you look in these areas it may help you out. If you need more help just ask 73 John KC0BMF On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Jeff Moore wrote: > ISS voice contacts are NOT simplex. They are just not cross-band. You > have a different uplink and downlink frequency but within the same band > similar to a conventional repeater. > > You should be able to set both the software and the radio to the correct > frequencies. > > 7 3 > > Jeff Moore -- KE7ACY > > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Rich/wa4bue >wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > The K4AMG CLUB is using the TS 2000 and SATPC32. > > > > In SAT mode the program or the transceiver gives an uplink and down link > > frequency. The ISS is simplex. Is it possible to work a simplex mode to > > the ISS with this configuration? > > > > God Bless > > > > R > > > > W4BUE > > ___ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite > program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: ISS and the TS 2000
ISS voice contacts are NOT simplex. They are just not cross-band. You have a different uplink and downlink frequency but within the same band similar to a conventional repeater. You should be able to set both the software and the radio to the correct frequencies. 7 3 Jeff Moore -- KE7ACY On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Rich/wa4bue wrote: > Hi all, > > The K4AMG CLUB is using the TS 2000 and SATPC32. > > In SAT mode the program or the transceiver gives an uplink and down link > frequency. The ISS is simplex. Is it possible to work a simplex mode to > the ISS with this configuration? > > God Bless > > R > > W4BUE > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] ISS and the TS 2000
Hi all, The K4AMG CLUB is using the TS 2000 and SATPC32. In SAT mode the program or the transceiver gives an uplink and down link frequency. The ISS is simplex. Is it possible to work a simplex mode to the ISS with this configuration? God Bless R W4BUE ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: FUNcube-1 Interview on BBC Radio
FYI the interview starts around 2:19:30 into the show On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:45 AM, M5AKA wrote: > I believe the BBC recording should be available worldwide, let me know if > it isn't. > > > See http://amsat-uk.org/2013/11/11/funcube-1-on-bbc-radio/ > > > > 73 Trevor > M5AKA > AMSAT-UK website http://amsat-uk.org/ > Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/AMSAT-UK/208113275898396 > Twitter https://twitter.com/AMSAT_UK > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] FUNcube-1 Project Update
Hi All, Our software team is working feverishly to complete the FUNcube Dashboard software that we will be using to decode and display the telemetry that will be transmitted from the spacecraft on 145.935 MHz. Whilst they finish their work here are some provisional pre-launch keps. We may well receive an updated set nearer to the day of launch but we expect that these should be good enough for the first few hours/days after launch. Satellite: FUNCUBE-1 Catalog number: 1 Epoch time: 13325.309563080 Element set: 1 Inclination: 97.7956 deg RA of node: 38.2570 deg Eccentricity:0.0059925 Arg of perigee: 198.5190 deg Mean anomaly: 336.5388 deg Mean motion: 14.77841394 rev/day Decay rate: 0.0106 Epoch rev: 1 The particular method of deployment used by this Dnepr launch vehicle means that the dispersion of all the objects may be somewhat more rapid than we are commonly used to, so this may help the experts determine which object is which. FUNcube-1 will initially be transmitting only about 30 mW of output power, this is its "Safe Mode", so a steerable yagi will greatly help reception. When the spacecraft is eventually transmitting data in its normal "Educational Mode" the signal is expected to be about 10dB louder. To stay up-to-date with what has happening with the FUNcube project and, in particular, with the FUNcube-1 spacecraft please visit www.funcube.org.uk You can register for automatic email notifications of all the updates by clicking on the "follow this blog" tab towards the bottom right hand corner of the front page. best 73 Graham G3VZV ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] FUNcube-1 Interview on BBC Radio
I believe the BBC recording should be available worldwide, let me know if it isn't. See http://amsat-uk.org/2013/11/11/funcube-1-on-bbc-radio/ 73 Trevor M5AKA AMSAT-UK website http://amsat-uk.org/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/AMSAT-UK/208113275898396 Twitter https://twitter.com/AMSAT_UK ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
Yes, It could work as long as software for doppler control (eg SatPc32) can invoke the smaller frequency changes which it actually can (see my other note on the IC-9100). So you would use the built-in DSTAR module for uplink or downlink and the 9600 packet mode with a GMSK node adapter for the other in a full duple radio like the IC-9100. Or you use two radios in 9600 packet mode with 2 node adapters for uplink and downlink as long as they are supported via doppler software and small frequency steps. Stefan On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 10:05 AM, K2AK - Jeff wrote: > Great point! > > Hi Angelo, > > Jeff - K2AK > (X-K7WIN) > > -Original Message- > From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On > Behalf Of Angelo Glorioso > Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 8:57 AM > To: amsat-bb@amsat.org > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR > > When GO32 was running, we were able to send and receive data at 9600 bps. > DSTAR voice. on 444 is 2400bps and data is 4800bps gsm if I am correct. > > So, why would it not work via satellite other than having to get 5 kc > steps > reduced to 1k or less. > > 73 de Angelo > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Gordon JC Pearce" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:22 AM > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR > > > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote: > >> Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same > >> thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it > >> is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun, > >> there is something for everyone > >> 73,s Damon > > > > But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig. Only one > > manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to a > > handful of approved radio manufacturers. > > > > It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE codec > > from DVSI. That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio. > > > > -- > > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ > > > > ___ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite > program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
I use D-STAR Digital Data on 1.2 GHz for my Winlink RMS Packet CMS connection, 24/7. The Pactor 3 mode that I use for Winlink HF forwarding is proprietary. But nobody else has come up with anything near as good (yet). So a lot of hams use it because it does the job well. We use D-STAR DD 1.2 GHz as a backup to the local internet connection for EMCOMM at the EOC and I do the same at home, too. WebEOC for example. D-STAR is another tool in the box, another readily available method that might be better in a particular circumstance. Why limit myself by not having a set of metric sockets for my wrench? But to the subject how about some D-STAR DD on the satellites? You would need to figure out a way around the L-band downlink e.g. a receive converter from another band or something... Maybe not necessarily (easily) feasible but nonetheless perhaps a thought path to other digital ideas for satellites. Both data and voice. These are just more fun things to think about! By the way, did you know that the MCU on the Fox-1 satellite is proprietary? ;-) Jerry N0JY On 11/11/2013 9:22 AM, Rob wrote: I have no doubt some form of voice over data will be the norm someday but I have doubts that will be D-STAR in it's current form. If it switches to a non-proprietary protocol ... or the patent on AMBE expires then maybe. ... but Amateur Radio isn't about just buying some vendors latest gadget like it's the latest iPhone it's about experimentation or more accurately: Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art. Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art. Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts. (source: Title 47 CFR Part 97.1) ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
Great point! Hi Angelo, Jeff - K2AK (X-K7WIN) -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Angelo Glorioso Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 8:57 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR When GO32 was running, we were able to send and receive data at 9600 bps. DSTAR voice. on 444 is 2400bps and data is 4800bps gsm if I am correct. So, why would it not work via satellite other than having to get 5 kc steps reduced to 1k or less. 73 de Angelo - Original Message - From: "Gordon JC Pearce" To: Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:22 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote: >> Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same >> thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it >> is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun, >> there is something for everyone >> 73,s Damon > > But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig. Only one > manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to a > handful of approved radio manufacturers. > > It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE codec > from DVSI. That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio. > > -- > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
When GO32 was running, we were able to send and receive data at 9600 bps. DSTAR voice. on 444 is 2400bps and data is 4800bps gsm if I am correct. So, why would it not work via satellite other than having to get 5 kc steps reduced to 1k or less. 73 de Angelo - Original Message - From: "Gordon JC Pearce" To: Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:22 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote: Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun, there is something for everyone 73,s Damon But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig. Only one manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to a handful of approved radio manufacturers. It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE codec from DVSI. That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio. -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
I have no doubt some form of voice over data will be the norm someday but I have doubts that will be D-STAR in it's current form. If it switches to a non-proprietary protocol ... or the patent on AMBE expires then maybe. ... but Amateur Radio isn't about just buying some vendors latest gadget like it's the latest iPhone it's about experimentation or more accurately: > Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art. > Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art. > Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts. (source: Title 47 CFR Part 97.1) On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 2:46 PM, damon runion wrote: > Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same > thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it > is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun, > there is something for everyone > 73,s Damon > > On 11/11/13, George Henry wrote: > > Actually, after more than 10 years on the market, D-STAR has only about > > 28,000 registered users worldwide. There are fewer than 2000 active > users, > > > > worldwide, daily. Many people are wondering why Icom keeps pouring money > > into something which is clearly unsustainable in the long run. > > > > There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer will > > touch it. > > > > > > George, KA3HSW > > > > - Original Message - > > From: > > To: "AMSAT" > > Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 1:00 PM > > Subject: [amsat-bb] D STAR > > > > > >>D STAR is growing across the US and the world > >> http://www.dstarinfo.com/repeater-maps.aspx > >> > >> Amsat UK has info about a D STAR satellite > >> > http://amsat-uk.org/2013/10/22/integration-of-worlds-first-d-star-cubesat/ > >> > >> If you don't have a radio, you can use a DV Dongle on your computer > >> Give it a try > >> 73 WA4HFN Damon > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the > author. > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite > >> program! > >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > ___ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite > program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote: > Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same > thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it > is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun, > there is something for everyone > 73,s Damon But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig. Only one manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to a handful of approved radio manufacturers. It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE codec from DVSI. That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio. -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
d star may be all ok on paths where it is a perfect signal, but nywhere that there is QSB or QRM or QRN it is dead in the water and is useless. And 90% of Amateur radio has those issues to deal with. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 11/11/2013 8:46 AM, damon runion wrote: Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun, there is something for everyone 73,s Damon On 11/11/13, George Henry wrote: Actually, after more than 10 years on the market, D-STAR has only about 28,000 registered users worldwide. There are fewer than 2000 active users, worldwide, daily. Many people are wondering why Icom keeps pouring money into something which is clearly unsustainable in the long run. There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer will touch it. George, KA3HSW - Original Message - From: To: "AMSAT" Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 1:00 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] D STAR D STAR is growing across the US and the world http://www.dstarinfo.com/repeater-maps.aspx Amsat UK has info about a D STAR satellite http://amsat-uk.org/2013/10/22/integration-of-worlds-first-d-star-cubesat/ If you don't have a radio, you can use a DV Dongle on your computer Give it a try 73 WA4HFN Damon ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun, there is something for everyone 73,s Damon On 11/11/13, George Henry wrote: > Actually, after more than 10 years on the market, D-STAR has only about > 28,000 registered users worldwide. There are fewer than 2000 active users, > > worldwide, daily. Many people are wondering why Icom keeps pouring money > into something which is clearly unsustainable in the long run. > > There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer will > touch it. > > > George, KA3HSW > > - Original Message - > From: > To: "AMSAT" > Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 1:00 PM > Subject: [amsat-bb] D STAR > > >>D STAR is growing across the US and the world >> http://www.dstarinfo.com/repeater-maps.aspx >> >> Amsat UK has info about a D STAR satellite >> http://amsat-uk.org/2013/10/22/integration-of-worlds-first-d-star-cubesat/ >> >> If you don't have a radio, you can use a DV Dongle on your computer >> Give it a try >> 73 WA4HFN Damon >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >> program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
On 11 Nov 2013, at 11:52, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:34:58AM +, Rob wrote: >> It would benefit the amateur community more to get support behind >> NON-PROPRIETARY OPEN PROTOCOLS and SYSTEMS like FreeDV, Speex and Codec2. >> >> Why subject yourself to the "AMBE TAX" ??? >> > > Furthermore, if I want to use digital voice to talk to someone on the other > side of the world, instead of buying an expensive DStar rig and hoping that > the cobbled-together infrastructure holds up I'll just whip out my phone and > enjoy the greater clarity and reliability of GSM. > > I just don't see why having a locked-down proprietary system like DStar is > good. You might as well just use Skype, or mobile phones, or CB. As far as I know, none of those work on AO-27 Dominic G6NQO. ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
An interesting idea would be trying a FreeDV QSO via satellite. I've made a few QSOs with it on HF and it's an interesting mode. Obviously it's full duty-cycle, so any attempts should be limited to just a few tests, but I'm sure it would work. 73, Paul, N8HM On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:34:58AM +, Rob wrote: > > It would benefit the amateur community more to get support behind > > NON-PROPRIETARY OPEN PROTOCOLS and SYSTEMS like FreeDV, Speex and Codec2. > > > > Why subject yourself to the "AMBE TAX" ??? > > > > Furthermore, if I want to use digital voice to talk to someone on the > other side of the world, instead of buying an expensive DStar rig and > hoping that the cobbled-together infrastructure holds up I'll just whip out > my phone and enjoy the greater clarity and reliability of GSM. > > I just don't see why having a locked-down proprietary system like DStar is > good. You might as well just use Skype, or mobile phones, or CB. > > -- > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:34:58AM +, Rob wrote: > It would benefit the amateur community more to get support behind > NON-PROPRIETARY OPEN PROTOCOLS and SYSTEMS like FreeDV, Speex and Codec2. > > Why subject yourself to the "AMBE TAX" ??? > Furthermore, if I want to use digital voice to talk to someone on the other side of the world, instead of buying an expensive DStar rig and hoping that the cobbled-together infrastructure holds up I'll just whip out my phone and enjoy the greater clarity and reliability of GSM. I just don't see why having a locked-down proprietary system like DStar is good. You might as well just use Skype, or mobile phones, or CB. -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
It would benefit the amateur community more to get support behind NON-PROPRIETARY OPEN PROTOCOLS and SYSTEMS like FreeDV, Speex and Codec2. Why subject yourself to the "AMBE TAX" ??? de ka2pbt On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Steve May wrote: > The unique feature of D-STAR for amateur use is that if a user doesn't like > the price, or doesn't like the fact that ICOM is using an AMBE chip, or > doesn't like ICOM because they capitalize every letter in their name, or > because they think that the gubment is going to break down their door > because they are encrypting their signal, or because they don't like > anything new, with D-STAR the user simply doesn't have to use it. > > But, if a amateur doesn't like it there is an absolute, gubment-mandated > requirement that he or she tell everyone that cares or doesn't as to why he > or she doesn't like it and/or why they never will. > > Steve, W5IEM > On Nov 11, 2013 3:44 AM, "Gordon JC Pearce" wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:14:26AM -0600, George Henry wrote: > > > > > > There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer > > > will touch it. > > > George, KA3HSW > > > > > > > What, apart from encryption being illegal on the amateur bands? > > > > Without a radical redesign and a new codec, DStar is just not suitable > for > > amateur use. Proprietary software runs counter to the whole principle of > > amateur radio, and in this case the encrypted proprietary codec is quite > > possibly not legal for amateur use. > > > > -- > > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ > > ___ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite > program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
The unique feature of D-STAR for amateur use is that if a user doesn't like the price, or doesn't like the fact that ICOM is using an AMBE chip, or doesn't like ICOM because they capitalize every letter in their name, or because they think that the gubment is going to break down their door because they are encrypting their signal, or because they don't like anything new, with D-STAR the user simply doesn't have to use it. But, if a amateur doesn't like it there is an absolute, gubment-mandated requirement that he or she tell everyone that cares or doesn't as to why he or she doesn't like it and/or why they never will. Steve, W5IEM On Nov 11, 2013 3:44 AM, "Gordon JC Pearce" wrote: > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:14:26AM -0600, George Henry wrote: > > > > There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer > > will touch it. > > George, KA3HSW > > > > What, apart from encryption being illegal on the amateur bands? > > Without a radical redesign and a new codec, DStar is just not suitable for > amateur use. Proprietary software runs counter to the whole principle of > amateur radio, and in this case the encrypted proprietary codec is quite > possibly not legal for amateur use. > > -- > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
On 11 Nov 2013 at 0:14, George Henry wrote: > Actually, after more than 10 years on the market, D-STAR has only about > 28,000 registered users worldwide. There are fewer than 2000 active users, > worldwide, daily. Many people are wondering why Icom keeps pouring money > into something which is clearly unsustainable in the long run. > > There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer will > touch it. > > > George, KA3HSW > Hi Georges I don't remember how long it takes to see AM disappear replaced by SSB but last week an old ham just telling me how easy it was to tune a station in AM he just get back on the air with a 21st century radio after a 20 years leave. He's right but the earth still continue to rotate. 10 years is quite a long run as per our today standards where your PC is no more up to date after 2 years. Length of a run appears shorter but not automatically harder when you get old. Einstein call that "relativity" ;) I already know 2 hams here up north who just get the new IC-7100 HF/VHF/UHF Transceiver. Between you and me they surely make some sort of market survey before as you said "pouring money into something which is clearly unsustainable in the long run." My short two cents. Luc Leblanc VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE Life is a sexually transmitted deadly disease. ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
