[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
From: jshor...@inebraska.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 21:36:54 -0600 Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype... On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 08:03:59 +, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: It doesn't in my case. I have *no interest at all* in operating satellites that require a complex fixed station with computer tracking and tuning. None. Doesn't interest me one bit. Require? Hah. I used to run the RS birds with a TR-7, IC-251A, and a TA-33 + 17 el Cushcraft with an old CDE rotor. No computer control, fixed at 90 degrees elevation. What fun it was! 73 -Jim My second satellite QSO (ever) was from California to New York on RS-10 with 10 watts to a copper pipe J-pole on the uplink, and a wire strung out to a tree in the back yard hooked to a Radio Shack DX-440 Short Wave receiver for the downlink. How can you not get hooked on this hobby after an experience like that? Want to top that? Then DO have that complex fixed station with computer tracking and tuning (that you built and/or assembled yourself) and talk from California to Perth, Australia via AO-40. Greg KO6TH ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 21:36 -0600, Jim Shorney wrote: On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 08:03:59 +, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: It doesn't in my case. I have *no interest at all* in operating satellites that require a complex fixed station with computer tracking and tuning. None. Doesn't interest me one bit. Require? Hah. I used to run the RS birds with a TR-7, IC-251A, and a TA-33 + 17 el Cushcraft with an old CDE rotor. No computer control, fixed at 90 degrees elevation. What fun it was! 73 -Jim You're so far south you can get away with that, though ;-) Gordon MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
At 07:27 PM 2/5/2011, Greg D. wrote: My second satellite QSO (ever) was from California to New York on RS-10 with 10 watts to a copper pipe J-pole on the uplink, and a wire strung out to a tree in the back yard hooked to a Radio Shack DX-440 Short Wave receiver for the downlink. How can you not get hooked on this hobby after an experience like that? Almost a duplicate setup for my first satellite QSO, which was also on RS-10. :) Uplink was 25W into an old Icom 2m all mode radio and a 2m Ringo antenna, and the downlink was a Yaesu FRG-7700 with some random length of wire strung across the backyard. :) 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 08:41:18 +, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: You're so far south you can get away with that, though ;-) I have never thought of Nebraska as south, y'all. :) 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
On 5 Feb 2011 at 9:46, Phil wrote: Date sent: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 09:46:19 +1000 From: Phil phil...@telstra.com Subject:[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype... To: amsat-bb@amsat.org On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 08:04:47 pm Luc Leblanc wrote: I logged 762 QSO on AO-40 from 2001 to 2003 here is some of them: VK4UBM VK3KOS VK3BVM Logged, but not accurately perhaps. I made several contacts with you Luc via A0-40. -- Regards, Phil (VK4BVM) Hi Phil I sometime logged my QSO live between radio/rotor/doppler adjustment and i cannot say my Lux LOG first version was 100% error free but i have to correct them when the card arrive as i can filter all VK'S and sorted them. AO-40 was a wonder full experience with U/S and L/S mode i was just making my first L/S QSO the day before he goes silent signal was extremely strong as i used a 7.5' dish with a L patch feed for the uplink on L band. and a 2.4GHZ patch feed on the same dish my web site still show this antenna cannot convince myself to scrap them :( For the record a rumour float around me and two other EU stations a DL and an i that we where involved in the satellite issues as we where using too much power and LEILA was not operating on the L uplink the day before AO-40 goes silent!!! if i remember correctly... It was proven wrong afterwards as it was related to the batteries only. - Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe DSTAR urcall VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
On Thu, 2011-02-03 at 13:49 -0500, Diane Bruce wrote: The focus put on KISS station in a way to recruit new satellite operator is not bad if this new operator goes beyond his KISS station IMHO. Yes, but when I innocently asked if anyone had done a survey to see if this was happening, I was flamed unmercifully on amsat-bb. The answer I did get was of course it does!. It would be nice to see a proper survey proving this is happening. It doesn't in my case. I have *no interest at all* in operating satellites that require a complex fixed station with computer tracking and tuning. None. Doesn't interest me one bit. The fun part is communicating via simple inexpensive satellites, with simple inexpensive hardware that you can make at home. Really, you could probably make the satellites at home too. I've got some scrap GP340s around here that I could gut and stick in a box. Lob that out of the ISS at an opportune moment and it would work. Not for long, maybe not very well, but it would work. There is new modes actually growing DSTAR, DRM, DIGITAL VOICE (FDMDV) is this can be an alternative to those who wants something else? or will we be facing with this alternative, overcrowded single channel satellite pass? Where is the place for experimenting on the actual LEO fleet? Our licence was not created for experimenting? The reality is, LEO is all we are going to be able to afford. I do not see the thousands upon thousands of amateurs willing to put up the $$ to put another HEO like AO-40, in the near future anyway. And yes AO-7 is still going, but is really sick sounding. The only short term realistic answer is more LEOs as I see it. But please, not another FM bird please. There is absolutely no reason we couldnt put a simple linear translator up and allow FM on one frequency, such as India does. Exactly. No-one is going to fly your HEO satellite unless you pay them a *shitload* of money. You can get away with cheap (sub-£20,000) flights to orbit because there is a certain amount of wasted space on things that fly proper satellites up so you can squeeze in a thing the size and weight of a sugar bag very nearly for free. The satellites used for satellite TV broadcasting are roughly the size and weight of a Volvo. How much do you think it costs to park a Volvo 22,000 miles away, when the gravity well is working against you? No doubt someone is going to pipe up with the idea of launching APRS digipeater sats, which is fine if you want to drive around going Here I am! Here I am! Here I am! but not so great if you want to talk to people. It would be a start, though. I like the idea of a linear bird with an FM slot, that would be good. Really we all need to start backing Iran's space programme. They launched the Omid sat reasonably successfully - it flew, it worked, and we could hear it down here. You can look on wikipedia and listen to the telemetry downlink I recorded with my TH-F7E and a 3-ele yagi. Geographically they're in an okay place for launches, and I bet they could use the cash. Of course certain nearby neighbours will have a shitfit about the ZOMG TERRORIST possibilities, but even with that borne in mind I'd rather have them inside pissing out. Gordon MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
On Fri, Feb 04, 2011 at 08:03:59AM +, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: On Thu, 2011-02-03 at 13:49 -0500, Diane Bruce wrote: ... It doesn't in my case. I have *no interest at all* in operating satellites that require a complex fixed station with computer tracking and tuning. None. Doesn't interest me one bit. Which is why I was interested in AO-40, for all the same reasons. However, since I had already invested in setting up an AO-40 station, I might as well use it. The fun part is communicating via simple inexpensive satellites, with simple inexpensive hardware that you can make at home. Really, you Well, sure no disagreement from me on that. But I would suggest a one design fits all idea. Make a simple simple satellite design that could be assembled in near mass production quantities, get them into orbit whenver opportunities prsent themselves. The reality is, LEO is all we are going to be able to afford. I do not see the thousands upon thousands of amateurs willing to put up the $$ ... Exactly. No-one is going to fly your HEO satellite unless you pay them a *shitload* of money. You can get away with cheap (sub-??20,000) ... Volvo. How much do you think it costs to park a Volvo 22,000 miles away, when the gravity well is working against you? Well, instead of thinking HEO for the time being, one simple design tossed up multiple times, on the same frequency pairs, to minimise tracking efforts is the way to go. people. It would be a start, though. I like the idea of a linear bird with an FM slot, that would be good. KISS ... Gordon MM0YEQ - Diane VA3DB -- - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
AO-40 was an incentive for me, though I never got beyond monitoring the 2m beacon in the early days after launch and before the incident with the 400N motor. I did collect a lot of good telemetry though Unfortunately, LEOs can't solve the problem of vast distances meaning little chance of variety - all I've ever worked on satellite is VK, ZL, P29 and 3D2, but we have to make do with what is practical. :-/ 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com I logged 762 QSO on AO-40 from 2001 to 2003 here is some of them: VK4UBM VK3KOS VK3BVM ZL2MN ZL2AWD ZL1DU FR7SAT JA6QTJ JA3THL JA1CG JA5CU JA1IRH JA3SGR JA5DVR/5 JA1COU I was the last station in the world who get the WAC award on satellite: SAT#9 May 1984 EN70 W4CKD Bob- SAT 02 Apr 1985 JN47 HB9CRQDannow HB9Q SAT 28 May 1985 JO30 DC8TS Hardy - SAT 07 Jun 1985 JO30 DC9ZP Manfred- SAT 27 Jul 1995 IO91 G0MRF David - SAT 17 Dec 1985 EN61 N2BJ Barry - SAT 06 Nov 1990 IO81 GW8TIXGerald - SAT 13 Dec 1995 FN41 WA1QXRKen- SAT 07 Feb 1997 FN34 N1JEZ Mike - SAT 12 Mar 1999 JO65 OZ1MY Ib - SAT 18 Dec 1998 JN52 IK0WGF? ex-IW0DAL SAT 14-Jul-2000 DL81 XE2AT Al ex-XE2YVW SAT 31 Oct 2003 PM96 JN1BPMHide - SAT 06 Sep 2006 FN36 VE2DWELuc- Complete list on http://www.qsl.net/ve2pij/vhfwac.html If DX means something for you you should push for the last HEO actual project from AMSAT-DL but no fresh new from them since a long time now? - Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe DSTAR urcall VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
At 02:18 AM 2/5/2011, Diane Bruce wrote: On Fri, Feb 04, 2011 at 08:03:59AM +, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: On Thu, 2011-02-03 at 13:49 -0500, Diane Bruce wrote: ... It doesn't in my case. I have *no interest at all* in operating satellites that require a complex fixed station with computer tracking and tuning. None. Doesn't interest me one bit. Which is why I was interested in AO-40, for all the same reasons. However, since I had already invested in setting up an AO-40 station, I might as well use it. I'm certainly not interested in automated tracking, due to the cost and mechanical complexity. I'm not good with anything mechanically complex. AO-40 offered simple antenna pointing, which was one of its attractions. Computer controlled tuning, I can manage that. The fun part is communicating via simple inexpensive satellites, with simple inexpensive hardware that you can make at home. Really, you Well, sure no disagreement from me on that. But I would suggest a one design fits all idea. Make a simple simple satellite design that could be assembled in near mass production quantities, get them into orbit whenver opportunities prsent themselves. This was suggested some time back for linear transponders, to make them available to the university groups building small satellites, so more linear birds would make it to LEO. Well, instead of thinking HEO for the time being, one simple design tossed up multiple times, on the same frequency pairs, to minimise tracking efforts is the way to go. Worth a thought. a constellation of LEOs could be quite useful. There might be some interference issues to consider, though in some circumstances, Doppler can mitigate some of these issues. SSB also has advantages here too, no capture effect. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 08:04:47 pm Luc Leblanc wrote: I logged 762 QSO on AO-40 from 2001 to 2003 here is some of them: VK4UBM VK3KOS VK3BVM Logged, but not accurately perhaps. I made several contacts with you Luc via A0-40. -- Regards, Phil (VK4BVM) ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 08:03:59 +, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: It doesn't in my case. I have *no interest at all* in operating satellites that require a complex fixed station with computer tracking and tuning. None. Doesn't interest me one bit. Require? Hah. I used to run the RS birds with a TR-7, IC-251A, and a TA-33 + 17 el Cushcraft with an old CDE rotor. No computer control, fixed at 90 degrees elevation. What fun it was! 73 -Jim -- Ham Radio NU0C Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A. TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time! Give a man a URL, and he will learn for an hour; teach him to Google, and he will learn for a lifetime. HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/ http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney http://www.nebraskaghosts.org ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 04:10:12AM -0500, Luc Leblanc wrote: On 3 Feb 2011 at 7:53, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: ... same crowd that only ever use macros on PSK31 - YOUR RST 599 599 HOW COPY? MNY THX FER QSO - you may as well use Skype... Gordon MM0YEQ you may as well use Skype... You can add also MSN chat, Twitter, Face Book all are related to the internet and many Hams leave amateur radio and they are now on the internet. ... The focus put on KISS station in a way to recruit new satellite operator is not bad if this new operator goes beyond his KISS station IMHO. Yes, but when I innocently asked if anyone had done a survey to see if this was happening, I was flamed unmercifully on amsat-bb. The answer I did get was of course it does!. It would be nice to see a proper survey proving this is happening. What is the motivation for some to operate on LEO satellite? The exotic mode and bands? The pleasure to achieve an OSCAR class station? My initial motivation to getting on satellite was AO-40. That was exciting, very neat and a fun technical challenge. I did make it on AO-40 btw, I think I made at least one cw QSO before you folks broke it. ;-) There is new modes actually growing DSTAR, DRM, DIGITAL VOICE (FDMDV) is this can be an alternative to those who wants something else? or will we be facing with this alternative, overcrowded single channel satellite pass? Where is the place for experimenting on the actual LEO fleet? Our licence was not created for experimenting? The reality is, LEO is all we are going to be able to afford. I do not see the thousands upon thousands of amateurs willing to put up the $$ to put another HEO like AO-40, in the near future anyway. And yes AO-7 is still going, but is really sick sounding. The only short term realistic answer is more LEOs as I see it. But please, not another FM bird please. There is absolutely no reason we couldnt put a simple linear translator up and allow FM on one frequency, such as India does. - 73 Diane VA3DB -- - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
At 05:49 AM 2/4/2011, Diane Bruce wrote: What is the motivation for some to operate on LEO satellite? The exotic mode and bands? The pleasure to achieve an OSCAR class station? My initial motivation to getting on satellite was AO-40. That was exciting, very neat and a fun technical challenge. I did make it on AO-40 btw, I think I made at least one cw QSO before you folks broke it. ;-) AO-40 was an incentive for me, though I never got beyond monitoring the 2m beacon in the early days after launch and before the incident with the 400N motor. I did collect a lot of good telemetry though There is new modes actually growing DSTAR, DRM, DIGITAL VOICE (FDMDV) is this can be an alternative to those who wants something else? or will we be facing with this alternative, overcrowded single channel satellite pass? Where is the place for experimenting on the actual LEO fleet? Our licence was not created for experimenting? The reality is, LEO is all we are going to be able to afford. I do not see the thousands upon thousands of amateurs willing to put up the $$ to put another HEO like AO-40, in the near future anyway. And yes AO-7 is still going, but is really sick sounding. The only short term realistic answer is more LEOs as I see it. But please, not another FM bird please. There is absolutely no reason we couldnt put a simple linear translator up and allow FM on one frequency, such as India does. I do agree, more linear birds would be a good thing, and the idea of sharing with FM might work well in these parts, where it can be hard to find anyone else on, and FM might be the difference between having someone to talk to, and enjoying a conversation with yourself! :) Traffic density over VK/ZL can get very low at times, so for us, FM is often a plus, although I'm interested in playing around with SSB too. A hand me down and recent upgrades now mean I have more than enough gear for the SSB birds. Unfortunately, LEOs can't solve the problem of vast distances meaning little chance of variety - all I've ever worked on satellite is VK, ZL, P29 and 3D2, but we have to make do with what is practical. :-/ 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: you may as well use Skype...
Hm, that sounds as if taking an HT and Arrow/Elk to the postponed DX0DX would be worthwhile (if I go). 73, doug Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 10:37:28 +1100 From: Tony Langdon vk3...@gmail.com At 05:49 AM 2/4/2011, Diane Bruce wrote: What is the motivation for some to operate on LEO satellite? The exotic mode and bands? The pleasure to achieve an OSCAR class station? My initial motivation to getting on satellite was AO-40. That was exciting, very neat and a fun technical challenge. I did make it on AO-40 btw, I think I made at least one cw QSO before you folks broke it. ;-) AO-40 was an incentive for me, though I never got beyond monitoring the 2m beacon in the early days after launch and before the incident with the 400N motor. I did collect a lot of good telemetry though There is new modes actually growing DSTAR, DRM, DIGITAL VOICE (FDMDV) is this can be an alternative to those who wants something else? or will we be facing with this alternative, overcrowded single channel satellite pass? Where is the place for experimenting on the actual LEO fleet? Our licence was not created for experimenting? The reality is, LEO is all we are going to be able to afford. I do not see the thousands upon thousands of amateurs willing to put up the $$ to put another HEO like AO-40, in the near future anyway. And yes AO-7 is still going, but is really sick sounding. The only short term realistic answer is more LEOs as I see it. But please, not another FM bird please. There is absolutely no reason we couldnt put a simple linear translator up and allow FM on one frequency, such as India does. I do agree, more linear birds would be a good thing, and the idea of sharing with FM might work well in these parts, where it can be hard to find anyone else on, and FM might be the difference between having someone to talk to, and enjoying a conversation with yourself! :) Traffic density over VK/ZL can get very low at times, so for us, FM is often a plus, although I'm interested in playing around with SSB too. A hand me down and recent upgrades now mean I have more than enough gear for the SSB birds. Unfortunately, LEOs can't solve the problem of vast distances meaning little chance of variety - all I've ever worked on satellite is VK, ZL, P29 and 3D2, but we have to make do with what is practical. :-/ 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
