[amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK
Hi Nate May I kindly recommend Mike, DK3WN, website ? http://www.dk3wn.info/p/ (daily weblog - IMHO the best there is) http://www.dk3wn.info/satellites.shtml (satellite index) http://www.dk3wn.info/sat/afu/sat_beesat.shtml (beesat) MSK is used for AA-U2 as well. http://www.dk3wn.info/sat/afu/sat_aau.shtml Mike has a few notes on receiving AA-U2 (also MSK) Once I participated in a test myself, the SW works. For this you use a soundcard on the PC, no TNC. Few items are in German, but Google can translate those for you. Although, I can read the German quite easy: Satelliten = satellites Telemetrie = telemetry ... but that's maybe since I watched German kids TV when I was young (those were the days TV here in Holland started only at 4pm or so and I lived 10 km's from the border with Germanyall entirely off-topic ! 73, Henk, PA3GUO Hi all, I didn't get a response the last time I asked, so I'll try again, slightly differently. What TNC or TNC-like equipment do I need to listen to BeeSat at 4800 bps? I have a TS-2000, yagi antenna, rotator, and KAM-XL, but the KAM-XL can only do GMSK at 9600 bps. Thanks in advance for your time, Nate KC2SVI -- Henk, PA3GUO ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK
Symek sells modems that can be modified for operation at 4.8-614.4 kbaud (http://www.symek.com/g/index-g.html). 73, John KD6OZH - Original Message - From: "Nathaniel S. Parsons" To: "AMSAT-BB" Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 16:40 UTC Subject: [amsat-bb] BeeSat at 4800 GMSK > Hi all, > > I didn't get a response the last time I asked, so I'll try again, slightly > differently. > > What TNC or TNC-like equipment do I need to listen to BeeSat at 4800 bps? > I > have a TS-2000, yagi antenna, rotator, and KAM-XL, but the KAM-XL can only > do GMSK at 9600 bps. > > Thanks in advance for your time, > > Nate KC2SVI > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK
Thanks everyone who has responded. If you emailed me personally, I hope I have gotten back to you already (otherwise, please try to send again in a way my filter won't catch). For those that cc'd the list: John - Thanks for the link, I'll look through it as soon as possible. Henk - Thanks for the dk3wn website, it looks like it has a lot of good stuff (almost overwhelming). Can I assume MSK=GMSK? I thought they were different, but they are the same, and since MixW has MSK, and I could use that with a Rigblaster, etc, right? -Nate On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 3:17 PM, John B. Stephensen wrote: > Symek sells modems that can be modified for operation at 4.8-614.4 kbaud ( > http://www.symek.com/g/index-g.html). > > 73, > > John > KD6OZH > > - Original Message - From: "Nathaniel S. Parsons" < > ns...@cornell.edu> > To: "AMSAT-BB" > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 16:40 UTC > Subject: [amsat-bb] BeeSat at 4800 GMSK > > > Hi all, >> >> I didn't get a response the last time I asked, so I'll try again, slightly >> differently. >> >> What TNC or TNC-like equipment do I need to listen to BeeSat at 4800 bps? >> I >> have a TS-2000, yagi antenna, rotator, and KAM-XL, but the KAM-XL can only >> do GMSK at 9600 bps. >> >> Thanks in advance for your time, >> >> Nate KC2SVI >> ___ >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK
Hi Nate, I was not aware MixW had MSK in it but still identical to GMSK. Perhaps you are thinking of MFSK? In the MixW program there is MSFK16, a multitone frequency shift signal, is supported, but not Minimum Shift Keying or Gaussian Minimum Shift Keying signals. And also FSK, aka RTTY. There is work going on to make a sound card 4800 bps 0.5 time-bandwidth product GMSK soundcard modems for use in GMSK DV adapters to use with D-STAR radios. Perhaps that could be adapted for your purpose? http://www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/voip/dstar/G4KLX.html seems to describe some of the work. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_development/ and ttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcrepeatercontroller/ are where I see the discussion underway. Separate discussion is using an external sound card interface like the Rigblaster, to connect a computer and radio. 73, Tom n4zpt Nathaniel S. Parsons wrote: > Can I assume MSK=GMSK? I thought they were different, but they are the same, > and since MixW has MSK, and I could use that with a Rigblaster, etc, right? > > -Nate ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK
Hi Nate, Sorry for the long delay MixW doesn't support GMSK. You mix that with MFSK. BeeSat has two CMX909B modems (CML) onboard. The data is sent in the MOBITEX format, not AX.25 ! See here for more information about Mobitex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobitex The CMX909B is a half-duplex Gaussian Minimum Shift Keyed (GMSK) BT = 0.3 modem data pump with on-chip packet data handling. GMSK modulation optimises the data throughput for a given bandwidth RF channel and the on-chip packet data handling relieves the host µC of regular processing tasks, such as maintaining Bit and Frame Synchronisation, Block Formatting, CRC and FEC Error Processing, Data Interleaving and Scrambling. 73, Mike DK3WN -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] Im Auftrag von Tom Azlin N4ZPT Gesendet: Freitag, 9. April 2010 00:28 An: AMSAT-BB Betreff: [amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK Hi Nate, I was not aware MixW had MSK in it but still identical to GMSK. Perhaps you are thinking of MFSK? In the MixW program there is MSFK16, a multitone frequency shift signal, is supported, but not Minimum Shift Keying or Gaussian Minimum Shift Keying signals. And also FSK, aka RTTY. There is work going on to make a sound card 4800 bps 0.5 time-bandwidth product GMSK soundcard modems for use in GMSK DV adapters to use with D-STAR radios. Perhaps that could be adapted for your purpose? http://www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/voip/dstar/G4KLX.html seems to describe some of the work. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_development/ and ttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcrepeatercontroller/ are where I see the discussion underway. Separate discussion is using an external sound card interface like the Rigblaster, to connect a computer and radio. 73, Tom n4zpt Nathaniel S. Parsons wrote: > Can I assume MSK=GMSK? I thought they were different, but they are the same, > and since MixW has MSK, and I could use that with a Rigblaster, etc, right? > > -Nate ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK
Hi Tom, My mind had indeed played a trick on me, and I remembered MFSK as MSK. As far as the DStar group goes, I don't see any mention of 4800 bps or 4k8 kbps on the public page, so if it's not the group's focus, I don't want to have to rely on that solution. Thanks, -Nate KC2SVI On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote: > Hi Nate, > > I was not aware MixW had MSK in it but still identical to GMSK. Perhaps you > are thinking of MFSK? In the MixW program there is MSFK16, a multitone > frequency shift signal, is supported, but not Minimum Shift Keying or > Gaussian Minimum Shift Keying signals. And also FSK, aka RTTY. > > There is work going on to make a sound card 4800 bps 0.5 time-bandwidth > product GMSK soundcard modems for use in GMSK DV adapters to use with D-STAR > radios. Perhaps that could be adapted for your purpose? > > http://www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/voip/dstar/G4KLX.html seems to describe > some of the work. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_development/ and ttp:// > groups.yahoo.com/group/pcrepeatercontroller/ are where I see the > discussion underway. > > Separate discussion is using an external sound card interface like the > Rigblaster, to connect a computer and radio. > > 73, Tom n4zpt > > > Nathaniel S. Parsons wrote: > >> Can I assume MSK=GMSK? I thought they were different, but they are the >> same, >> and since MixW has MSK, and I could use that with a Rigblaster, etc, >> right? >> >> -Nate >> > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK
Hi Nate, the D-STAR protocol is only GMSK at 4800 bps and they selected a time-bandwidth product of 0.5. 4,800 bps or 4k8 is perhaps not talked about as that IS the standard for D-STAR. So the software there might be adaptable. that is the reason I thought to suggest it. Good luck and 73, Tom n4zpt Nathaniel S. Parsons wrote: > Hi Tom, > > My mind had indeed played a trick on me, and I remembered MFSK as MSK. > > As far as the DStar group goes, I don't see any mention of 4800 bps or 4k8 > kbps on the public page, so if it's not the group's focus, I don't want to > have to rely on that solution. > > Thanks, > -Nate KC2SVI ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK
Well, make that the digital voice part of the protocol. The high speed digital data part is up to 128kbps which was not what I was thinking of. 73, tom n4zpt Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote: > Hi Nate, > > the D-STAR protocol is only GMSK at 4800 bps and they selected a > time-bandwidth product of 0.5. 4,800 bps or 4k8 is perhaps not talked > about as that IS the standard for D-STAR. So the software there might be > adaptable. that is the reason I thought to suggest it. > > Good luck and 73, Tom n4zpt > > > > Nathaniel S. Parsons wrote: >> Hi Tom, >> >> My mind had indeed played a trick on me, and I remembered MFSK as MSK. >> >> As far as the DStar group goes, I don't see any mention of 4800 bps or 4k8 >> kbps on the public page, so if it's not the group's focus, I don't want to >> have to rely on that solution. >> >> Thanks, >> -Nate KC2SVI > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK
Ah, thanks for clarifying. Unfortunately, if I understand you correctly, we would have to talk to our satellite via digital voice, or at 128kbps, which would be great if we could! -Nate On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote: > Well, make that the digital voice part of the protocol. The high speed > digital data part is up to 128kbps which was not what I was thinking of. > > 73, tom n4zpt > > Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote: > >> Hi Nate, >> >> the D-STAR protocol is only GMSK at 4800 bps and they selected a >> time-bandwidth product of 0.5. 4,800 bps or 4k8 is perhaps not talked about >> as that IS the standard for D-STAR. So the software there might be >> adaptable. that is the reason I thought to suggest it. >> >> Good luck and 73, Tom n4zpt >> >> >> >> Nathaniel S. Parsons wrote: >> >>> Hi Tom, >>> >>> My mind had indeed played a trick on me, and I remembered MFSK as MSK. >>> >>> As far as the DStar group goes, I don't see any mention of 4800 bps or >>> 4k8 >>> kbps on the public page, so if it's not the group's focus, I don't want >>> to >>> have to rely on that solution. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -Nate KC2SVI >>> >> ___ >> >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK
Hi Mike, Thanks for the reply while we still have time to fix things and stay on schedule. Do you think it would be feasible to implement Mobitex in software on a µC, given a transceiver in transparent mode (will modulate and send any bits it receives on serial, and demodulate/receive any RF it receives)? We already have one dedicated to comms, and all other algorithms take place on a separate processor. I ask because at this point, it would be easier to change the software than the hardware (software has no mass or volume). I'd say Block formatting, CRC and bit & Frame Sync would be easy enough (everything's a multiple of a byte) because they're completely described, but the interleaving and scrambling aren't which makes things much harder. -Nate KC2SVI On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 4:03 AM, Mike Rupprecht wrote: > Hi Nate, > > Sorry for the long delay > > MixW doesn't support GMSK. You mix that with MFSK. > > BeeSat has two CMX909B modems (CML) onboard. The data is sent in the > MOBITEX > format, not AX.25 ! > See here for more information about Mobitex: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobitex > > The CMX909B is a half-duplex Gaussian Minimum Shift Keyed (GMSK) BT = 0.3 > modem data pump with on-chip packet data handling. GMSK modulation > optimises > the data throughput for a given bandwidth RF channel and the on-chip packet > data handling relieves the host µC of regular processing tasks, such as > maintaining Bit and Frame Synchronisation, Block Formatting, CRC and FEC > Error Processing, Data Interleaving and Scrambling. > > 73, Mike > DK3WN > > > > > > > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] Im > Auftrag von Tom Azlin N4ZPT > Gesendet: Freitag, 9. April 2010 00:28 > An: AMSAT-BB > Betreff: [amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK > > Hi Nate, > > I was not aware MixW had MSK in it but still identical to GMSK. Perhaps > you are thinking of MFSK? In the MixW program there is MSFK16, a > multitone frequency shift signal, is supported, but not Minimum Shift > Keying or Gaussian Minimum Shift Keying signals. And also FSK, aka RTTY. > > There is work going on to make a sound card 4800 bps 0.5 time-bandwidth > product GMSK soundcard modems for use in GMSK DV adapters to use with > D-STAR radios. Perhaps that could be adapted for your purpose? > > http://www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/voip/dstar/G4KLX.html seems to > describe some of the work. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_development/ and > ttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcrepeatercontroller/ are where I see the > discussion underway. > > Separate discussion is using an external sound card interface like the > Rigblaster, to connect a computer and radio. > > 73, Tom n4zpt > > Nathaniel S. Parsons wrote: > > Can I assume MSK=GMSK? I thought they were different, but they are the > same, > > and since MixW has MSK, and I could use that with a Rigblaster, etc, > right? > > > > -Nate > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK
D-Star protocol is 4.8kb/sec for voice 1.2 kb for FEC and 1.2kb for data. It is GMSK data, transmit rate is 3.6KHz max transmission rate, (7.2kb NRZ), deviation is 1.8 KHz for a modulation index of 0.5. BW per Carlson's rule is 7.2 KHz A vocoder module provides for the voice compression. The Data side is used for Call Sign, Name, City/ State, Brag Tape, GPS position, and Texting all done with voice simultaneously. D-Star is not very successful in mobile operation. I have had lots of conversations go R2D2 from a truck or car passing me. From a fixed position range is surprisingly good. When used on a Satellite this narrow mode I suspect is very sensitive to Doppler as well as multipath. Circular antennas on both ends will solve multipath, but Doppler shift must be dealt with. Art, KC6UQH -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Nathaniel S. Parsons Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:02 PM To: Tom Azlin N4ZPT Cc: AMSAT-BB Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK Ah, thanks for clarifying. Unfortunately, if I understand you correctly, we would have to talk to our satellite via digital voice, or at 128kbps, which would be great if we could! -Nate On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote: > Well, make that the digital voice part of the protocol. The high speed > digital data part is up to 128kbps which was not what I was thinking of. > > 73, tom n4zpt > > Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote: > >> Hi Nate, >> >> the D-STAR protocol is only GMSK at 4800 bps and they selected a >> time-bandwidth product of 0.5. 4,800 bps or 4k8 is perhaps not talked about >> as that IS the standard for D-STAR. So the software there might be >> adaptable. that is the reason I thought to suggest it. >> >> Good luck and 73, Tom n4zpt >> >> >> >> Nathaniel S. Parsons wrote: >> >>> Hi Tom, >>> >>> My mind had indeed played a trick on me, and I remembered MFSK as MSK. >>> >>> As far as the DStar group goes, I don't see any mention of 4800 bps or >>> 4k8 >>> kbps on the public page, so if it's not the group's focus, I don't want >>> to >>> have to rely on that solution. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -Nate KC2SVI >>> >> ___ >> >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5016 (20100410) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5016 (20100410) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5016 (20100410) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: BeeSat at 4800 GMSK
NO. I was simply saying that the open source is there for the 4800 bps GMSK sound card modem. NOT using D-STAR Digital Voice. That has already been done via satellite. NO, I was just saying ignore the high speed mode. 73, Tom n4zpt Nathaniel S. Parsons wrote: > Ah, thanks for clarifying. Unfortunately, if I understand you correctly, we > would have to talk to our satellite via digital voice, or at 128kbps, which > would be great if we could! > > -Nate > > On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote: > >> Well, make that the digital voice part of the protocol. The high speed >> digital data part is up to 128kbps which was not what I was thinking of. >> >> 73, tom n4zpt >> >> Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote: >> >>> Hi Nate, >>> >>> the D-STAR protocol is only GMSK at 4800 bps and they selected a >>> time-bandwidth product of 0.5. 4,800 bps or 4k8 is perhaps not talked about >>> as that IS the standard for D-STAR. So the software there might be >>> adaptable. that is the reason I thought to suggest it. >>> >>> Good luck and 73, Tom n4zpt >>> >>> >>> >>> Nathaniel S. Parsons wrote: >>> Hi Tom, My mind had indeed played a trick on me, and I remembered MFSK as MSK. As far as the DStar group goes, I don't see any mention of 4800 bps or 4k8 kbps on the public page, so if it's not the group's focus, I don't want to have to rely on that solution. Thanks, -Nate KC2SVI >>> ___ >>> >>> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>> >>> > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
