[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Rob Roschewsk]

It would benefit the amateur community more to get support behind
NON-PROPRIETARY OPEN PROTOCOLS and SYSTEMS like FreeDV, Speex and Codec2.

Why subject yourself to the "AMBE TAX" ???

de ka2pbt



On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 7:00 PM,  wrote:

> D STAR is growing across the US and the world
> http://www.dstarinfo.com/repeater-maps.aspx
>
>  Amsat UK has info about a D STAR satellite
> http://amsat-uk.org/2013/10/22/integration-of-worlds-first-d-star-cubesat/
>
> If you don't have a radio, you can use a DV Dongle on your computer
>  Give it a try
> 73 WA4HFN  Damon
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Stefan Wagener]

D Star satellite?

That sounds like a need idea. Would be nice to do some tests on existing
satellites.

With SO-50 it will not work unless someone has figured out how to have D
Star (DV) active on any D-Star radio with the required tone enabled. Won't
work with the IC-9100. Tried it. Another problem is the 5KHz spacing since
you pretty much have to be right on the frequency on the TX and RX. Also,
on the IC-9100 it seems to be not possible to set D-Star (DV) on the RX and
TX in satellite mode. Anyone else tried it? Also, SatP32 has at the moment
no DV functionality for the IC-9100. I guess we have a long way to go :-)

Stefan


On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 1:00 PM,  wrote:

> D STAR is growing across the US and the world
> http://www.dstarinfo.com/repeater-maps.aspx
>
>  Amsat UK has info about a D STAR satellite
> http://amsat-uk.org/2013/10/22/integration-of-worlds-first-d-star-cubesat/
>
> If you don't have a radio, you can use a DV Dongle on your computer
>  Give it a try
> 73 WA4HFN  Damon
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)]

Stefan,

It appears that stations attempting to work D-Star via
satellite would need to use two radios.  This was the
case a few years ago, when AA4RC and N3UC were able to
make a brief QSO on AO-27.  You can read about what gear
the used, along with some useful tips for trying D-Star
via satellite, at:

http://www.ao27.org/AO27/

The 5 kHz tuning steps for D-Star radios would make
satellite operating difficult as you mentioned.  AO-27
was the ideal satellite for this sort of experiment,
since its uplink receiver was intended for use with
data, and doesn't filter the lower end of the audio
range that it hears.  Plus the control operators of
AO-27 have stated clearly that they support and
encourage D-Star on AO-27, something not seen for any
of our other satellites.

>From a quick read of the IC-9100 instruction manual, it
is clear that D-Star was not intended to be used in this
radio for satellite operating or for anything other than
the "normal" D-Star operations (RX and TX in the same
band, simplex or repeater).  You could use the IC-9100 as
one of the two radios for D-Star satellite operation as
those guys did for AO-27 a few years ago, but you would
not have access to the IC-9100 satellite functionality.

73!




Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/




On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Stefan Wagener  wrote:

> D Star satellite?
>
> That sounds like a need idea. Would be nice to do some tests on existing
> satellites.
>
> With SO-50 it will not work unless someone has figured out how to have D
> Star (DV) active on any D-Star radio with the required tone enabled. Won't
> work with the IC-9100. Tried it. Another problem is the 5KHz spacing since
> you pretty much have to be right on the frequency on the TX and RX. Also,
> on the IC-9100 it seems to be not possible to set D-Star (DV) on the RX and
> TX in satellite mode. Anyone else tried it? Also, SatP32 has at the moment
> no DV functionality for the IC-9100. I guess we have a long way to go :-)
>
> Stefan
>
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Stefan Wagener]

Thanks!

Yes, will try to put a few suggestions together for Icom for the next
IC-9100 firmware upgrade. It would be a good radio to use next to others.

Have a good weekend,

Stefan


On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) <
amsat...@wd9ewk.net> wrote:

> Stefan,
>
> It appears that stations attempting to work D-Star via
> satellite would need to use two radios.  This was the
> case a few years ago, when AA4RC and N3UC were able to
> make a brief QSO on AO-27.  You can read about what gear
> the used, along with some useful tips for trying D-Star
> via satellite, at:
>
> http://www.ao27.org/AO27/
>
> The 5 kHz tuning steps for D-Star radios would make
> satellite operating difficult as you mentioned.  AO-27
> was the ideal satellite for this sort of experiment,
> since its uplink receiver was intended for use with
> data, and doesn't filter the lower end of the audio
> range that it hears.  Plus the control operators of
> AO-27 have stated clearly that they support and
> encourage D-Star on AO-27, something not seen for any
> of our other satellites.
>
> From a quick read of the IC-9100 instruction manual, it
> is clear that D-Star was not intended to be used in this
> radio for satellite operating or for anything other than
> the "normal" D-Star operations (RX and TX in the same
> band, simplex or repeater).  You could use the IC-9100 as
> one of the two radios for D-Star satellite operation as
> those guys did for AO-27 a few years ago, but you would
> not have access to the IC-9100 satellite functionality.
>
> 73!
>
>
>
>
> Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
> http://www.wd9ewk.net/
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Stefan Wagener 
> wrote:
>
> > D Star satellite?
> >
> > That sounds like a need idea. Would be nice to do some tests on existing
> > satellites.
> >
> > With SO-50 it will not work unless someone has figured out how to have D
> > Star (DV) active on any D-Star radio with the required tone enabled.
> Won't
> > work with the IC-9100. Tried it. Another problem is the 5KHz spacing
> since
> > you pretty much have to be right on the frequency on the TX and RX. Also,
> > on the IC-9100 it seems to be not possible to set D-Star (DV) on the RX
> and
> > TX in satellite mode. Anyone else tried it? Also, SatP32 has at the
> moment
> > no DV functionality for the IC-9100. I guess we have a long way to go :-)
> >
> > Stefan
> >
> >
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Tony Langdon]

On 11/11/13 7:45 AM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:

Stefan,

It appears that stations attempting to work D-Star via
satellite would need to use two radios.  This was the
case a few years ago, when AA4RC and N3UC were able to
make a brief QSO on AO-27.  You can read about what gear
the used, along with some useful tips for trying D-Star
via satellite, at:
If the new satellite has AFC and a 2m uplink, existing D-STAR radios 
should be suitable for the uplink.  That leaves the downlink, where I'd 
probably use something like an all mode radio with computer controlled 
Doppler correction and a GMSK modem with DV Dongle or DV-RPTR board with 
an on board AMBE decoder.


Where things could get really interesting is D-STAR allows easy 
interfacing to the Internet, so theoretically, you could enable (for a 
few minutes!) global connectivity to remote areas.


--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[George Henry]

Actually, after more than 10 years on the market, D-STAR has only about 
28,000 registered users worldwide.  There are fewer than 2000 active users, 
worldwide, daily.  Many people are wondering why Icom keeps pouring money 
into something which is clearly unsustainable in the long run.


There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer will 
touch it.



George, KA3HSW

- Original Message - 
From: 

To: "AMSAT" 
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 1:00 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] D STAR



D STAR is growing across the US and the world
http://www.dstarinfo.com/repeater-maps.aspx

Amsat UK has info about a D STAR satellite
http://amsat-uk.org/2013/10/22/integration-of-worlds-first-d-star-cubesat/

If you don't have a radio, you can use a DV Dongle on your computer
Give it a try
73 WA4HFN  Damon






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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[lucleblanc6]

On 11 Nov 2013 at 10:51, Tony Langdon wrote:

> On 11/11/13 7:45 AM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
> > Stefan,
> >
> > It appears that stations attempting to work D-Star via
> > satellite would need to use two radios.  This was the
> > case a few years ago, when AA4RC and N3UC were able to
> > make a brief QSO on AO-27.  You can read about what gear
> > the used, along with some useful tips for trying D-Star
> > via satellite, at:
> If the new satellite has AFC and a 2m uplink, existing D-STAR radios 
> should be suitable for the uplink.  That leaves the downlink, where I'd 
> probably use something like an all mode radio with computer controlled 
> Doppler correction and a GMSK modem with DV Dongle or DV-RPTR board with 
> an on board AMBE decoder.
> 
> Where things could get really interesting is D-STAR allows easy 
> interfacing to the Internet, so theoretically, you could enable (for a 
> few minutes!) global connectivity to remote areas.
> 
> -- 
> 73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
> http://vkradio.com

You can read and hear about my first AO-27 DSTAR test transmission made on 
September 5 2009.  Unfortunately numerous attemps to have 
another station to complete a QSO remain unsuccesfull. Some stations where not 
able to get to the satellite.

You can hear the audio recording on Matthias dd1us web site  
http://www.dd1us.de/spacesounds%202c.html
scoll down to:

Amrad OSCAR 27
(EYESAT-1)
#22825
(1993-061C)

"Usually analog FM voice transmissions are used via AO-27. However the new 
DSTAR standard 
which is intended to be used via terrestrial FM repeaters can be also used via 
satellite as the test
transmission of Luc Leblanc VE2DWE demonstrates. He used an ICOM IC2200 TRX for
the 436.795 MHz downlink and a ICOM ID-800H for the 145.850 MHz uplink.
Recorded on September 5th 2009 at 22:49 UTC and kindly provided by VE2DWE."


You can also hear the recording on my web page at:   www.qsl.net/ve2dwe 
(Firefox will not let you hear it IE will...)

Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE


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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Gordon JC Pearce]

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:14:26AM -0600, George Henry wrote:
> 
> There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer
> will touch it.
> George, KA3HSW
> 

What, apart from encryption being illegal on the amateur bands?

Without a radical redesign and a new codec, DStar is just not suitable for 
amateur use.  Proprietary software runs counter to the whole principle of 
amateur radio, and in this case the encrypted proprietary codec is quite 
possibly not legal for amateur use.

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[lucleblanc6]

On 11 Nov 2013 at 0:14, George Henry wrote:

> Actually, after more than 10 years on the market, D-STAR has only about 
> 28,000 registered users worldwide.  There are fewer than 2000 active users, 
> worldwide, daily.  Many people are wondering why Icom keeps pouring money 
> into something which is clearly unsustainable in the long run.
> 
> There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer will 
> touch it.
> 
> 
> George, KA3HSW
>
Hi Georges


I don't remember how long it takes to see AM disappear replaced by SSB but last 
week an old ham just telling me how easy it was to tune a 
station in AM he just get back on the air with a 21st century radio after a 20 
years leave. He's right but the earth still continue to 
rotate.

10 years is quite a long run as per our today standards where your PC is no 
more up to date after 2 years.

Length of a run appears shorter but not automatically harder when you get old.  
Einstein call that "relativity" ;)

I already know 2 hams here up north who just get the new IC-7100 HF/VHF/UHF 
Transceiver. Between you and me they surely make some sort of 
market survey before as you said "pouring money  into something which is 
clearly unsustainable in the long run."

My short two cents.


Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE


Life is a sexually transmitted deadly disease.



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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Steve May]

The unique feature of D-STAR for amateur use is that if a user doesn't like
the price, or doesn't like the fact that ICOM is using an AMBE chip, or
doesn't like ICOM because they capitalize every letter in their name, or
because they think that the gubment is going to break down their door
because they are encrypting their signal, or because they don't like
anything new, with D-STAR the user simply doesn't have to use it.

But, if a amateur doesn't like it there is an absolute, gubment-mandated
requirement that he or she tell everyone that cares or doesn't as to why he
or she doesn't like it and/or why they never will.

Steve, W5IEM
On Nov 11, 2013 3:44 AM, "Gordon JC Pearce"  wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:14:26AM -0600, George Henry wrote:
> >
> > There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer
> > will touch it.
> > George, KA3HSW
> >
>
> What, apart from encryption being illegal on the amateur bands?
>
> Without a radical redesign and a new codec, DStar is just not suitable for
> amateur use.  Proprietary software runs counter to the whole principle of
> amateur radio, and in this case the encrypted proprietary codec is quite
> possibly not legal for amateur use.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Rob]

It would benefit the amateur community more to get support behind
NON-PROPRIETARY OPEN PROTOCOLS and SYSTEMS like FreeDV, Speex and Codec2.

Why subject yourself to the "AMBE TAX" ???

de ka2pbt


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Steve May  wrote:

> The unique feature of D-STAR for amateur use is that if a user doesn't like
> the price, or doesn't like the fact that ICOM is using an AMBE chip, or
> doesn't like ICOM because they capitalize every letter in their name, or
> because they think that the gubment is going to break down their door
> because they are encrypting their signal, or because they don't like
> anything new, with D-STAR the user simply doesn't have to use it.
>
> But, if a amateur doesn't like it there is an absolute, gubment-mandated
> requirement that he or she tell everyone that cares or doesn't as to why he
> or she doesn't like it and/or why they never will.
>
> Steve, W5IEM
> On Nov 11, 2013 3:44 AM, "Gordon JC Pearce"  wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:14:26AM -0600, George Henry wrote:
> > >
> > > There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer
> > > will touch it.
> > > George, KA3HSW
> > >
> >
> > What, apart from encryption being illegal on the amateur bands?
> >
> > Without a radical redesign and a new codec, DStar is just not suitable
> for
> > amateur use.  Proprietary software runs counter to the whole principle of
> > amateur radio, and in this case the encrypted proprietary codec is quite
> > possibly not legal for amateur use.
> >
> > --
> > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Gordon JC Pearce]

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:34:58AM +, Rob wrote:
> It would benefit the amateur community more to get support behind
> NON-PROPRIETARY OPEN PROTOCOLS and SYSTEMS like FreeDV, Speex and Codec2.
> 
> Why subject yourself to the "AMBE TAX" ???
> 

Furthermore, if I want to use digital voice to talk to someone on the other 
side of the world, instead of buying an expensive DStar rig and hoping that the 
cobbled-together infrastructure holds up I'll just whip out my phone and enjoy 
the greater clarity and reliability of GSM.

I just don't see why having a locked-down proprietary system like DStar is 
good.  You might as well just use Skype, or mobile phones, or CB.

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Paul Stoetzer]

An interesting idea would be trying a FreeDV QSO via satellite. I've made a
few QSOs with it on HF and it's an interesting mode.

Obviously it's full duty-cycle, so any attempts should be limited to just a
few tests, but I'm sure it would work.

73,

Paul, N8HM


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:34:58AM +, Rob wrote:
> > It would benefit the amateur community more to get support behind
> > NON-PROPRIETARY OPEN PROTOCOLS and SYSTEMS like FreeDV, Speex and Codec2.
> >
> > Why subject yourself to the "AMBE TAX" ???
> >
>
> Furthermore, if I want to use digital voice to talk to someone on the
> other side of the world, instead of buying an expensive DStar rig and
> hoping that the cobbled-together infrastructure holds up I'll just whip out
> my phone and enjoy the greater clarity and reliability of GSM.
>
> I just don't see why having a locked-down proprietary system like DStar is
> good.  You might as well just use Skype, or mobile phones, or CB.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Dominic Hawken]

On 11 Nov 2013, at 11:52, Gordon JC Pearce  wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:34:58AM +, Rob wrote:
>> It would benefit the amateur community more to get support behind
>> NON-PROPRIETARY OPEN PROTOCOLS and SYSTEMS like FreeDV, Speex and Codec2.
>> 
>> Why subject yourself to the "AMBE TAX" ???
>> 
> 
> Furthermore, if I want to use digital voice to talk to someone on the other 
> side of the world, instead of buying an expensive DStar rig and hoping that 
> the cobbled-together infrastructure holds up I'll just whip out my phone and 
> enjoy the greater clarity and reliability of GSM.
> 
> I just don't see why having a locked-down proprietary system like DStar is 
> good.  You might as well just use Skype, or mobile phones, or CB.

As far as I know, none of those work on AO-27

Dominic G6NQO.



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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[damon runion]

Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it
is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
there is something for everyone
73,s Damon

On 11/11/13, George Henry  wrote:
> Actually, after more than 10 years on the market, D-STAR has only about
> 28,000 registered users worldwide.  There are fewer than 2000 active users,
>
> worldwide, daily.  Many people are wondering why Icom keeps pouring money
> into something which is clearly unsustainable in the long run.
>
> There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer will
> touch it.
>
>
> George, KA3HSW
>
> - Original Message -
> From: 
> To: "AMSAT" 
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 1:00 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] D STAR
>
>
>>D STAR is growing across the US and the world
>> http://www.dstarinfo.com/repeater-maps.aspx
>>
>> Amsat UK has info about a D STAR satellite
>> http://amsat-uk.org/2013/10/22/integration-of-worlds-first-d-star-cubesat/
>>
>> If you don't have a radio, you can use a DV Dongle on your computer
>> Give it a try
>> 73 WA4HFN  Damon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Joe]

d star may be all ok on paths where it is a perfect signal, but nywhere 
that there is QSB or QRM or QRN it is dead in the water and is useless. 
And 90% of Amateur radio has those issues to deal with.


Joe WB9SBD
Sig
The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 11/11/2013 8:46 AM, damon runion wrote:

Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it
is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
there is something for everyone
73,s Damon

On 11/11/13, George Henry  wrote:

Actually, after more than 10 years on the market, D-STAR has only about
28,000 registered users worldwide.  There are fewer than 2000 active users,

worldwide, daily.  Many people are wondering why Icom keeps pouring money
into something which is clearly unsustainable in the long run.

There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer will
touch it.


George, KA3HSW

- Original Message -
From: 
To: "AMSAT" 
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 1:00 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] D STAR



D STAR is growing across the US and the world
http://www.dstarinfo.com/repeater-maps.aspx

Amsat UK has info about a D STAR satellite
http://amsat-uk.org/2013/10/22/integration-of-worlds-first-d-star-cubesat/

If you don't have a radio, you can use a DV Dongle on your computer
Give it a try
73 WA4HFN  Damon






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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Gordon JC Pearce]

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:
> Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
> thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it
> is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
> there is something for everyone
> 73,s Damon

But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig.  Only one 
manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to a 
handful of approved radio manufacturers.

It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE codec from 
DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.

--
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Rob]

I have no doubt some form of voice over data will be the norm someday but I
have doubts that will be D-STAR in it's current form. If it switches to a
non-proprietary protocol ... or the patent on AMBE expires then maybe.

... but Amateur Radio isn't about just buying some vendors latest gadget
like it's the latest iPhone  it's about experimentation or
more accurately:

> Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute
to the advancement of the radio art.

> Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which
provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases
of the art.

> Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of
trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

(source: Title 47 CFR Part 97.1)



On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 2:46 PM, damon runion  wrote:

> Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
> thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it
> is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
> there is something for everyone
> 73,s Damon
>
> On 11/11/13, George Henry  wrote:
> > Actually, after more than 10 years on the market, D-STAR has only about
> > 28,000 registered users worldwide.  There are fewer than 2000 active
> users,
> >
> > worldwide, daily.  Many people are wondering why Icom keeps pouring money
> > into something which is clearly unsustainable in the long run.
> >
> > There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer will
> > touch it.
> >
> >
> > George, KA3HSW
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: 
> > To: "AMSAT" 
> > Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 1:00 PM
> > Subject: [amsat-bb] D STAR
> >
> >
> >>D STAR is growing across the US and the world
> >> http://www.dstarinfo.com/repeater-maps.aspx
> >>
> >> Amsat UK has info about a D STAR satellite
> >>
> http://amsat-uk.org/2013/10/22/integration-of-worlds-first-d-star-cubesat/
> >>
> >> If you don't have a radio, you can use a DV Dongle on your computer
> >> Give it a try
> >> 73 WA4HFN  Damon
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> author.
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> >> program!
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Angelo Glorioso]

When GO32 was running, we were able to send and receive  data at 9600 bps. 
DSTAR voice. on 444 is 2400bps and data is 4800bps  gsm if I am correct.


So, why would it not work via satellite other than having to get 5 kc steps 
reduced to 1k or less.


73 de Angelo




- Original Message - 
From: "Gordon JC Pearce" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:22 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR



On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:

Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it
is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
there is something for everyone
73,s Damon


But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig.  Only one 
manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to a 
handful of approved radio manufacturers.


It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE codec 
from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.


--
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[K2AK - Jeff]

Great point!

Hi Angelo,

Jeff - K2AK
(X-K7WIN)

-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Angelo Glorioso
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 8:57 AM
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

When GO32 was running, we were able to send and receive  data at 9600 bps. 
DSTAR voice. on 444 is 2400bps and data is 4800bps  gsm if I am correct.

 So, why would it not work via satellite other than having to get 5 kc steps
reduced to 1k or less.

73 de Angelo




- Original Message -
From: "Gordon JC Pearce" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:22 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR


> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:
>> Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
>> thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it
>> is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
>> there is something for everyone
>> 73,s Damon
>
> But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig.  Only one 
> manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to a 
> handful of approved radio manufacturers.
>
> It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE codec 
> from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[n0jy]

I use D-STAR Digital Data on 1.2 GHz for my Winlink RMS Packet CMS 
connection, 24/7.
The Pactor 3 mode that I use for Winlink HF forwarding is proprietary.  
But nobody else has come up with anything near as good (yet).  So a lot 
of hams use it because it does the job well.
We use D-STAR DD 1.2 GHz as a backup to the local internet connection 
for EMCOMM at the EOC and I do the same at home, too. WebEOC for example.
D-STAR is another tool in the box, another readily available method that 
might be better in a particular circumstance.  Why limit myself by not 
having a set of metric sockets for my wrench?


But to the subject how about some D-STAR DD on the satellites?  You 
would need to figure out a way around the L-band downlink e.g. a receive 
converter from another band or something...
Maybe not necessarily (easily) feasible but nonetheless perhaps a 
thought path to other digital ideas for satellites.  Both data and voice.

These are just more fun things to think about!

By the way, did you know that the MCU on the Fox-1 satellite is 
proprietary? ;-)


Jerry
N0JY

On 11/11/2013 9:22 AM, Rob wrote:

I have no doubt some form of voice over data will be the norm someday but I
have doubts that will be D-STAR in it's current form. If it switches to a
non-proprietary protocol ... or the patent on AMBE expires then maybe.

... but Amateur Radio isn't about just buying some vendors latest gadget
like it's the latest iPhone  it's about experimentation or
more accurately:


Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute

to the advancement of the radio art.


Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which

provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases
of the art.


Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of

trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

(source: Title 47 CFR Part 97.1)




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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Stefan Wagener]

Yes,

It could work as long as software for doppler control (eg SatPc32) can
invoke the smaller frequency changes which it actually can (see my other
note on the IC-9100). So you would use the built-in DSTAR module for uplink
or downlink and the 9600 packet mode with a GMSK node adapter for the other
in a full duple radio like the IC-9100. Or you use two radios in 9600
packet mode with 2 node adapters for uplink and downlink as long as they
are supported via doppler software and small frequency steps.

Stefan


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 10:05 AM, K2AK - Jeff  wrote:

> Great point!
>
> Hi Angelo,
>
> Jeff - K2AK
> (X-K7WIN)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
> Behalf Of Angelo Glorioso
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 8:57 AM
> To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
>
> When GO32 was running, we were able to send and receive  data at 9600 bps.
> DSTAR voice. on 444 is 2400bps and data is 4800bps  gsm if I am correct.
>
>  So, why would it not work via satellite other than having to get 5 kc
> steps
> reduced to 1k or less.
>
> 73 de Angelo
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gordon JC Pearce" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:22 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
>
>
> > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:
> >> Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
> >> thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it
> >> is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
> >> there is something for everyone
> >> 73,s Damon
> >
> > But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig.  Only one
> > manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to a
> > handful of approved radio manufacturers.
> >
> > It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE codec
> > from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.
> >
> > --
> > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[George Henry]

FreeDV would probably work on the transponder birds if your doppler update 
was fast enough... it has built-in AFC.  Your only chance to try it on an FM 
bird would probably be in the middle of the night...


George, KA3HSW


- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Stoetzer" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 7:17 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR


An interesting idea would be trying a FreeDV QSO via satellite. I've made 
a

few QSOs with it on HF and it's an interesting mode.

Obviously it's full duty-cycle, so any attempts should be limited to just 
a

few tests, but I'm sure it would work.

73,

Paul, N8HM




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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Tony Langdon]

On 11/11/13 6:44 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:14:26AM -0600, George Henry wrote:

There are very good reasons why no other amateur radio manufacturer
will touch it.
George, KA3HSW


What, apart from encryption being illegal on the amateur bands?

Without a radical redesign and a new codec, DStar is just not suitable for 
amateur use.  Proprietary software runs counter to the whole principle of 
amateur radio, and in this case the encrypted proprietary codec is quite 
possibly not legal for amateur use.
That argument is a furphy.  AMBE is readily available in a $20 chip if 
the authorities want to listen in, it's not encrytion (formally defined 
as encoding to obscure the meaning of a transmission), it's encoding to 
minimise the audio data transmitted for intelligible speech.


D-STAR itself is open specification, and a significant proportion (a 
majority now?) of D-STAR gateways run open source software (such as the 
G4KLX pcrepeatercontroller/ircddbgateway software) on both Icom repeater 
hardware and homebrew setups.


Sure, an open source vocoder would have been nice, but one with suitable 
performance and available in a form that could be incorporated into 
radios didn't exist when D-STAR was developed. Had D-STAR been developed 
today, Codec2 would be a real option (though I'm not yet aware of an 
implementation suitable for a mobile or HT).


--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Tony Langdon]

On 12/11/13 12:17 AM, Paul Stoetzer wrote:

An interesting idea would be trying a FreeDV QSO via satellite. I've made a
few QSOs with it on HF and it's an interesting mode.

Obviously it's full duty-cycle, so any attempts should be limited to just a
few tests, but I'm sure it would work.
I suspect you'd need computer Doppler correction with the FDMDV modem.  
The high PAPR would limit the stress on a linear transponder.  The (yet 
to be finalised) VHF GMSK variant might be easier to handle from a 
Doppler point of view, though at a higher average power (since it's 
constant envelope like FM).


--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Tony Langdon]

On 12/11/13 3:25 AM, Stefan Wagener wrote:

Yes,

It could work as long as software for doppler control (eg SatPc32) can
invoke the smaller frequency changes which it actually can (see my other
note on the IC-9100). So you would use the built-in DSTAR module for uplink
or downlink and the 9600 packet mode with a GMSK node adapter for the other
in a full duple radio like the IC-9100. Or you use two radios in 9600
packet mode with 2 node adapters for uplink and downlink as long as they
are supported via doppler software and small frequency steps.
I think setups using GMSK modems or a DV-RPTR board and an all mode 
radio with Doppler correction will have the most success on satellite 
D-STAR, because computer Doppler compensation and the small tuning step 
size will keep everything within tolerance.  Time to pull my DV-RPTR 
board out and hook it up to the IC-7000. :)



--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Gordon JC Pearce]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 05:09:56PM +1100, Tony Langdon wrote:
> On 12/11/13 12:17 AM, Paul Stoetzer wrote:
> >An interesting idea would be trying a FreeDV QSO via satellite. I've made a
> >few QSOs with it on HF and it's an interesting mode.
> >
> >Obviously it's full duty-cycle, so any attempts should be limited to just a
> >few tests, but I'm sure it would work.
> I suspect you'd need computer Doppler correction with the FDMDV
> modem.  The high PAPR would limit the stress on a linear
> transponder.  The (yet to be finalised) VHF GMSK variant might be
> easier to handle from a Doppler point of view, though at a higher
> average power (since it's constant envelope like FM).

You could simulate doppler by injecting a suitable voltage ramp into your RIT 
control, making your HF rig "drift" in a known way.

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[aflow...@frontiernet.net]

Hi Jerry,

> I use D-STAR Digital Data on 1.2 GHz for my Winlink RMS Packet CMS 
> connection, 24/7.
> The Pactor 3 mode that I use for Winlink HF forwarding is proprietary.  But 
> nobody else has come up with anything near as good (yet).  So a lot of hams 
> use it because it does the job well.
 
I think that was Rob's point.  There is no opportunity to learn from it let 
alone improve upon it because the protocol is at the very least a guarded trade 
secret if not patented (FWIW, the case of protocols used for HF email mostly 
outside ham bands I would think there would be very good business reasons for 
the manufacturer to keep it so).  It closes off the doors of learning from it 
let alone finding ways to improve upon it, and relegates us to nothing more 
than a consumers of a product.  One might argue that ingraining it in a 
permanent network, whether it be HF email or a shared satellite channel, does 
more of the same.  Having a consumer base that is happy with what they have is 
pretty good discouragement for incremental innovationafter all, all these 
consumers have just spent all this money on their radios and modems, why would 
they want to change or even support it?   In the end you may find that "just 
because it works" sounds specious
 to people who believe that Amateur Radio Service has had much more to offer 
than simply transferring information from point A to point B with "maximum 
efficiency" or whatever.  There's a philosophical pragmatism behind this that 
some people see as having the potential to trump the balance of purposes that 
define the Amateur Radio Service.  I think that's why Rob pointed to the 
enumerated purposes in CFR part 97.1. (For those outside the US you probably 
have a similar wording in your countries' laws since this all pretty much 
summarizes the ITU definition, so this isn't just a "US thing").

(As a side note for the spectators, if you have strong feelings about this you 
may want think about the long-term consequences the ARRL's upcoming NPRM as it 
relates to HF digital communication).

Back to satellites.  I have no idea if D star has a issue with Doppler shift on 
radios that tune in 5Khz increments of whatever, but it's been suggested that 
it could be handled with finer tuning, narrower channels, or some kind of AFC.  
So, you ask your box manufacturer to allow finer tuning (or the chip 
manufacturer to enable some kind of AFC).  They do the market research and 
decide that you don't represent a big enough market to justify the redesign.  
If as one commenter has has is true, then you the consumer have no (legal) 
recourse. Even if you wanted to do improve it your hands are tied.
 
The alternative of having the ability to change and adopt the code to suit 
various constraints could certainly be handled in an open and possibly very 
messy manner involving failed experiments but in which everyone has the ability 
to learn something according to his or her ability if he or she wishes to 
participate.  It sounds like there are people doing just that. (It's the same 
reason I am on this reflector but don't talk much--I think there are many more, 
but the list admin would know for sure).

Or you can just buy "what works"  (works for what?) off the shelf, which is 
certainly the hope of the commercial interests.  But something in my bones (and 
maybe yours, too) tells me that that kind of pragmatism might not be so good in 
the long run.  It's our future, I guess, and I can't make that decision for 
anyone, but to dismiss these concerns out of hand in the name of "progress", as 
it often is, seems rather foolish to me.  There's a big picture here that 
everyone owes it to themselves to take some time to ponder.

I'm glad this is being discussed.
 
Cheers,
 
Andy K0SM/2
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[lucleblanc6]

On 11 Nov 2013 at 15:22, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:
> > Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
> > thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it
> > is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
> > there is something for everyone
> > 73,s Damon
> 
> But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig.  Only one 
> manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to a 
> handful of approved radio manufacturers.
> 
> It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE codec 
> from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.
> 
> --
> Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
> 
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To help the non beleiver.. just read this:

http://www.eham.net/articles/30174

And yes telephone and satellite phone are available but if one choose to use 
DSTAR it is relevant to discredit him? If you think something 
has no place im amateur radio just don't use it and let those who wants to use 
it enjoy one of the most reliable digital communication 
protocol available. Yes some will say DMR,  MotoTRBO are better it's just to 
say competition is already present.

The cost question.
You can already interface a lot of recent HF transceiver to DSTAR for 700$ and 
much less if you are technicaly inclined.See below it's just 
an example and i'm not connected to their business.

http://dstarradioclub-international.com/dv-adapters---for-more-information--manual-links.html?success=1&ucfid=510239683496259871&text=Thank+
you.+Your+information+has+been+submitted 

I don't know where this "I don't use it and as i think it's not Ham radio no 
one should use it" trend come from but it's getting old... 

I'm an avid DSTAR user just put my call sing in your URCALL and you will be 
able to reach me all over the globe. If you don't like the 
internet component you better to go back to the cave man, or you don't live on 
my planet.

Just let folks live free...


Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE


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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Rob]

"To help the non beleiver.. "

Well I guess it official ... it's now become a religious argument.

D-STAR is the "fast-food" of amateur radio (much the same way repeaters are
... but I digress)

I'm not arguing the technical merits  but it does not enhance the radio
art ... it does not promote innovation ...

Sure you can buy a radio ... plug it in  program it or what ever you
need to do to get on "the net" and talk to someone  you've learned
nothing and you've given nothing back.

The spectrum we use is very valuable  if we're not generating any value
for what we've been entrusted with it's going to be sold off to the highest
bidder.

We need more of this -> http://wc2fd.com/eaps/





On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:32 PM,  wrote:

> On 11 Nov 2013 at 15:22, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:
> > > Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
> > > thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it
> > > is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
> > > there is something for everyone
> > > 73,s Damon
> >
> > But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig.  Only one
> manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to a
> handful of approved radio manufacturers.
> >
> > It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE
> codec from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.
> >
> > --
> > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
> >
> > ___
> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> program!
> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
> To help the non beleiver.. just read this:
>
> http://www.eham.net/articles/30174
>
> And yes telephone and satellite phone are available but if one choose to
> use DSTAR it is relevant to discredit him? If you think something
> has no place im amateur radio just don't use it and let those who wants to
> use it enjoy one of the most reliable digital communication
> protocol available. Yes some will say DMR,  MotoTRBO are better it's just
> to say competition is already present.
>
> The cost question.
> You can already interface a lot of recent HF transceiver to DSTAR for 700$
> and much less if you are technicaly inclined.See below it's just
> an example and i'm not connected to their business.
>
>
> http://dstarradioclub-international.com/dv-adapters---for-more-information--manual-links.html?success=1&ucfid=510239683496259871&text=Thank+
> you.+Your+information+has+been+submitted
>
> I don't know where this "I don't use it and as i think it's not Ham radio
> no one should use it" trend come from but it's getting old...
>
> I'm an avid DSTAR user just put my call sing in your URCALL and you will
> be able to reach me all over the globe. If you don't like the
> internet component you better to go back to the cave man, or you don't
> live on my planet.
>
> Just let folks live free...
>
>
> Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
> WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
>
>
> ___
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Angelo Glorioso]

"To help the believer "  :-)

Either you have not used Dstar before or have not used it
in a long time.

Have your tried to send a picture with Dstar??

Have you chatted voice and text as the same time??

Have you tried to surf the web with DStar.

Have you used DRats for Emergencies, trainings or other exercises ???


Just to mention a few things that add to the enhancement of the
radio art!!

7 3  de Angelo




- Original Message - 
From: "Rob" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:39 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR



"To help the non beleiver.. "

Well I guess it official ... it's now become a religious argument.

D-STAR is the "fast-food" of amateur radio (much the same way repeaters 
are

... but I digress)

I'm not arguing the technical merits  but it does not enhance the 
radio

art ... it does not promote innovation ...

Sure you can buy a radio ... plug it in  program it or what ever you
need to do to get on "the net" and talk to someone  you've learned
nothing and you've given nothing back.

The spectrum we use is very valuable  if we're not generating any 
value
for what we've been entrusted with it's going to be sold off to the 
highest

bidder.

We need more of this -> http://wc2fd.com/eaps/





On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:32 PM,  wrote:


On 11 Nov 2013 at 15:22, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:
> > Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
> > thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it
> > is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
> > there is something for everyone
> > 73,s Damon
>
> But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig.  Only 
> one

manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to a
handful of approved radio manufacturers.
>
> It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE
codec from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
>
> ___
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the 
> author.

> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

To help the non beleiver.. just read this:

http://www.eham.net/articles/30174

And yes telephone and satellite phone are available but if one choose to
use DSTAR it is relevant to discredit him? If you think something
has no place im amateur radio just don't use it and let those who wants 
to

use it enjoy one of the most reliable digital communication
protocol available. Yes some will say DMR,  MotoTRBO are better it's just
to say competition is already present.

The cost question.
You can already interface a lot of recent HF transceiver to DSTAR for 
700$

and much less if you are technicaly inclined.See below it's just
an example and i'm not connected to their business.


http://dstarradioclub-international.com/dv-adapters---for-more-information--manual-links.html?success=1&ucfid=510239683496259871&text=Thank+
you.+Your+information+has+been+submitted

I don't know where this "I don't use it and as i think it's not Ham radio
no one should use it" trend come from but it's getting old...

I'm an avid DSTAR user just put my call sing in your URCALL and you will
be able to reach me all over the globe. If you don't like the
internet component you better to go back to the cave man, or you don't
live on my planet.

Just let folks live free...


Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE


___
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Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
program!

Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Rob]

I can do all that with my iphone  which are the enhancements?


On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Angelo Glorioso  wrote:

> "To help the believer "  :-)
>
> Either you have not used Dstar before or have not used it
> in a long time.
>
> Have your tried to send a picture with Dstar??
>
> Have you chatted voice and text as the same time??
>
> Have you tried to surf the web with DStar.
>
> Have you used DRats for Emergencies, trainings or other exercises ???
>
>
> Just to mention a few things that add to the enhancement of the
> radio art!!
>
> 7 3  de Angelo
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message ----- From: "Rob" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:39 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
>
>
>  "To help the non beleiver.. "
>>
>> Well I guess it official ... it's now become a religious argument.
>>
>> D-STAR is the "fast-food" of amateur radio (much the same way repeaters
>> are
>> ... but I digress)
>>
>> I'm not arguing the technical merits  but it does not enhance the
>> radio
>> art ... it does not promote innovation ...
>>
>> Sure you can buy a radio ... plug it in  program it or what ever you
>> need to do to get on "the net" and talk to someone  you've learned
>> nothing and you've given nothing back.
>>
>> The spectrum we use is very valuable  if we're not generating any
>> value
>> for what we've been entrusted with it's going to be sold off to the
>> highest
>> bidder.
>>
>> We need more of this -> http://wc2fd.com/eaps/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:32 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>  On 11 Nov 2013 at 15:22, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:
>>> > > Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
>>> > > thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it
>>> > > is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
>>> > > there is something for everyone
>>> > > 73,s Damon
>>> >
>>> > But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig.  Only >
>>> one
>>> manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to a
>>> handful of approved radio manufacturers.
>>> >
>>> > It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE
>>> codec from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >
>>> author.
>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>> To help the non beleiver.. just read this:
>>>
>>> http://www.eham.net/articles/30174
>>>
>>> And yes telephone and satellite phone are available but if one choose to
>>> use DSTAR it is relevant to discredit him? If you think something
>>> has no place im amateur radio just don't use it and let those who wants
>>> to
>>> use it enjoy one of the most reliable digital communication
>>> protocol available. Yes some will say DMR,  MotoTRBO are better it's just
>>> to say competition is already present.
>>>
>>> The cost question.
>>> You can already interface a lot of recent HF transceiver to DSTAR for
>>> 700$
>>> and much less if you are technicaly inclined.See below it's just
>>> an example and i'm not connected to their business.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://dstarradioclub-international.com/dv-adapters-
>>> --for-more-information--manual-links.html?success=1&
>>> ucfid=510239683496259871&text=Thank+
>>> you.+Your+information+has+been+submitted
>>>
>>> I don't know where this "I don't use it and as i think it's not Ham radio
>>> no one should use it" trend come from but it's getting old...
>>>
>>> I'm an avid DSTAR user just put my call sing in your URCALL and you will
>>> be able to reach me all over the globe. If you don't like the
>>> internet component you better to go back to the cave man, or you don't
>>> live on my planet.
>>>
>>> Just let folks live free...
>>>
>>>
>>> Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
>>> WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>>  ___
>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>
>>
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Angelo Glorioso]

Sorry. I thought we were comparing apples with apples.

PS: By the way, apple (big brother is watching you ) :-)


- Original Message - 
From: "Rob" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:26 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR



I can do all that with my iphone  which are the enhancements?


On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Angelo Glorioso  
wrote:



"To help the believer "  :-)

Either you have not used Dstar before or have not used it
in a long time.

Have your tried to send a picture with Dstar??

Have you chatted voice and text as the same time??

Have you tried to surf the web with DStar.

Have you used DRats for Emergencies, trainings or other exercises ???


Just to mention a few things that add to the enhancement of the
radio art!!

7 3  de Angelo




- Original Message - From: "Rob" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:39 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR


 "To help the non beleiver.. "


Well I guess it official ... it's now become a religious argument.

D-STAR is the "fast-food" of amateur radio (much the same way repeaters
are
... but I digress)

I'm not arguing the technical merits  but it does not enhance the
radio
art ... it does not promote innovation ...

Sure you can buy a radio ... plug it in  program it or what ever you
need to do to get on "the net" and talk to someone  you've learned
nothing and you've given nothing back.

The spectrum we use is very valuable  if we're not generating any
value
for what we've been entrusted with it's going to be sold off to the
highest
bidder.

We need more of this -> http://wc2fd.com/eaps/





On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:32 PM,  wrote:

 On 11 Nov 2013 at 15:22, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:


> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:
> > Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
> > thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR 
> > it

> > is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
> > there is something for everyone
> > 73,s Damon
>
> But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig.  Only 
>  >

one
manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to 
a

handful of approved radio manufacturers.
>
> It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE
codec from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
>
> ___
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >
author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

To help the non beleiver.. just read this:

http://www.eham.net/articles/30174

And yes telephone and satellite phone are available but if one choose 
to

use DSTAR it is relevant to discredit him? If you think something
has no place im amateur radio just don't use it and let those who wants
to
use it enjoy one of the most reliable digital communication
protocol available. Yes some will say DMR,  MotoTRBO are better it's 
just

to say competition is already present.

The cost question.
You can already interface a lot of recent HF transceiver to DSTAR for
700$
and much less if you are technicaly inclined.See below it's just
an example and i'm not connected to their business.


http://dstarradioclub-international.com/dv-adapters-
--for-more-information--manual-links.html?success=1&
ucfid=510239683496259871&text=Thank+
you.+Your+information+has+been+submitted

I don't know where this "I don't use it and as i think it's not Ham 
radio

no one should use it" trend come from but it's getting old...

I'm an avid DSTAR user just put my call sing in your URCALL and you 
will

be able to reach me all over the globe. If you don't like the
internet component you better to go back to the cave man, or you don't
live on my planet.

Just let folks live free...


Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE


___
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author.

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 ___

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Rob]

An example of an enhancement to the radio art would be PSK31 for example.

Created by an amateur radio operator used by amateur radio operators. An
amazing technology for weak signal work. Multiple conversations tacking
place in a single SSB "channel."

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying ... D-STAR is neat  but if I (or
someone smarter than me) can't fabricate it from core technologies it can't
be fully understood or improved upon. Which is what this hobby is suppose
to be about.



On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Angelo Glorioso  wrote:

> Sorry. I thought we were comparing apples with apples.
>
> PS: By the way, apple (big brother is watching you ) :-)
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "Rob" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:26 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
>
>
>  I can do all that with my iphone  which are the enhancements?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Angelo Glorioso 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  "To help the believer "  :-)
>>>
>>> Either you have not used Dstar before or have not used it
>>> in a long time.
>>>
>>> Have your tried to send a picture with Dstar??
>>>
>>> Have you chatted voice and text as the same time??
>>>
>>> Have you tried to surf the web with DStar.
>>>
>>> Have you used DRats for Emergencies, trainings or other exercises ???
>>>
>>>
>>> Just to mention a few things that add to the enhancement of the
>>> radio art!!
>>>
>>> 7 3  de Angelo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - From: "Rob" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:39 AM
>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
>>>
>>>
>>>  "To help the non beleiver.. "
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well I guess it official ... it's now become a religious argument.
>>>>
>>>> D-STAR is the "fast-food" of amateur radio (much the same way repeaters
>>>> are
>>>> ... but I digress)
>>>>
>>>> I'm not arguing the technical merits  but it does not enhance the
>>>> radio
>>>> art ... it does not promote innovation ...
>>>>
>>>> Sure you can buy a radio ... plug it in  program it or what ever you
>>>> need to do to get on "the net" and talk to someone  you've learned
>>>> nothing and you've given nothing back.
>>>>
>>>> The spectrum we use is very valuable  if we're not generating any
>>>> value
>>>> for what we've been entrusted with it's going to be sold off to the
>>>> highest
>>>> bidder.
>>>>
>>>> We need more of this -> http://wc2fd.com/eaps/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:32 PM,  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  On 11 Nov 2013 at 15:22, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:
>>>>> > > Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
>>>>> > > thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR
>>>>> > > it
>>>>> > > is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
>>>>> > > there is something for everyone
>>>>> > > 73,s Damon
>>>>> >
>>>>> > But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig.  Only
>>>>> >  >
>>>>> one
>>>>> manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell
>>>>> to a
>>>>> handful of approved radio manufacturers.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE
>>>>> codec from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ___
>>>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >
>>>>> author.
>>>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>>>> program!
>>>>> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mail

[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[John Becker]

On 11/12/2013 8:16 AM, aflow...@frontiernet.net wrote:
I think that was Rob's point.  There is no opportunity to learn from 
it let alone improve upon it because the protocol is at the very least 
a guarded trade secret if not patented
YES IT IS. And for good reason. Just as well as Motorola Kenwood and 
Yaesu has done the same.

It's time to get over it.

And GENERAL MOTORS did what with their ON STAR system? Copyright and 
patents. How dare them do that.


John, W0JAB




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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Gregg Wonderly]

What is most important to consider is that there is only one choice, because of 
the investment and low return there is because HAM radio operators don't want to 
spend money.  Yet, we buy antennas (isn't there only one source for patented 
antenna designs that we flock to?), coax, power systems and lots of other things 
which are largely single sourced by manufacturers that do a great job creating a 
valuable product.


Ultimately, that is the decision to make.  Is the money for the product the 
right value to pay?  If you really believe you can't get a chip, I think you are 
mistaken.  Can you get the cheap price in single quantities?  No.  But, they are 
available last I had heard.


At this point, we are moving into the world of "software" components.  These are 
things such as micro-controllers, DSPs and Codecs which are all put together to 
create a useful RF based device.


In the end, SDR is what we actually need to be focused on.  That would allow 
everyone to "write their own radio" and expand our capabilities with "digitial" 
emissions well beyond where we are at now.


The future is automatic frequency selection, varied modulation techniques 
combined with embedded FEC to create an instantaneous solution to interference 
problems.


Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On 11/11/2013 9:22 AM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:

Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the same
thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with DSTAR it
is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much fun,
there is something for everyone
73,s Damon


But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig.  Only one

> manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell to
> a handful of approved radio manufacturers.


It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the AMBE codec

> from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.


--
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[PE1RDW]

On 12-11-13 19:38, John Becker wrote:


On 11/12/2013 8:16 AM, aflow...@frontiernet.net wrote:

I think that was Rob's point.  There is no opportunity to learn from
it let alone improve upon it because the protocol is at the very
least a guarded trade secret if not patented

YES IT IS. And for good reason. Just as well as Motorola Kenwood and
Yaesu has done the same.
It's time to get over it.

And GENERAL MOTORS did what with their ON STAR system? Copyright and
patents. How dare them do that.

John, W0JAB

I'm not a fan of D STAR but the protocol is very much open and Hams are 
building their own systems, just have a look at things like Dutch STAR.


Yes the codec is close licenced but everyone can buy the IC to decode 
and encode it for reasonable prices (between $20 and $30 depending on 
source).


There even people developing complete addons to do D STAR without a PC, 
just the addon and a 9K6 capable fm transiever.


73 de Andre PE1RDW
___
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Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Angelo Glorioso]

Last question. Do you know for a fact that
the AMBE codecs was not developed by
a ham radio operator for that company???
A lot of hams are in that business.

7 3 de Angelo



- Original Message - 
From: "Rob" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:16 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR



An example of an enhancement to the radio art would be PSK31 for example.

Created by an amateur radio operator used by amateur radio operators. An
amazing technology for weak signal work. Multiple conversations tacking
place in a single SSB "channel."

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying ... D-STAR is neat  but if I (or
someone smarter than me) can't fabricate it from core technologies it 
can't

be fully understood or improved upon. Which is what this hobby is suppose
to be about.



On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Angelo Glorioso  
wrote:



Sorry. I thought we were comparing apples with apples.

PS: By the way, apple (big brother is watching you ) :-)


- Original Message - From: "Rob" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:26 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR


 I can do all that with my iphone  which are the enhancements?



On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Angelo Glorioso 
wrote:

 "To help the believer "  :-)


Either you have not used Dstar before or have not used it
in a long time.

Have your tried to send a picture with Dstar??

Have you chatted voice and text as the same time??

Have you tried to surf the web with DStar.

Have you used DRats for Emergencies, trainings or other exercises ???


Just to mention a few things that add to the enhancement of the
radio art!!

7 3  de Angelo




- Original Message - From: "Rob" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:39 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR


 "To help the non beleiver.. "



Well I guess it official ... it's now become a religious argument.

D-STAR is the "fast-food" of amateur radio (much the same way 
repeaters

are
... but I digress)

I'm not arguing the technical merits  but it does not enhance the
radio
art ... it does not promote innovation ...

Sure you can buy a radio ... plug it in  program it or what ever 
you
need to do to get on "the net" and talk to someone  you've 
learned

nothing and you've given nothing back.

The spectrum we use is very valuable  if we're not generating any
value
for what we've been entrusted with it's going to be sold off to the
highest
bidder.

We need more of this -> http://wc2fd.com/eaps/





On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:32 PM,  wrote:

 On 11 Nov 2013 at 15:22, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:



> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:
> > Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the 
> > same
> > thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with 
> > DSTAR

> > it
> > is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much 
> > fun,

> > there is something for everyone
> > 73,s Damon
>
> But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig. 
> Only

>  >
one
manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell
to a
handful of approved radio manufacturers.
>
> It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the 
> AMBE

codec from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
>
> ___
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >
author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

To help the non beleiver.. just read this:

http://www.eham.net/articles/30174

And yes telephone and satellite phone are available but if one 
choose

to
use DSTAR it is relevant to discredit him? If you think something
has no place im amateur radio just don't use it and let those who 
wants

to
use it enjoy one of the most reliable digital communication
protocol available. Yes some will say DMR,  MotoTRBO are better it's
just
to say competition is already present.

The cost question.
You can already interface a lot of recent HF transceiver to DSTAR 
for

700$
and much less if you are technicaly inclined.See below it's just
an example and i'm not connected to their business.


http://dstarradioclub-international.com/dv-adapters-
--for-more-information--manual-links.html?success=1&
ucfid=510239683496259871&text=Thank+
you.+Your+information+has+been+submitted

I don't know where this "I don't use it and as i think it's not Ham
radio
no one should use it" trend come from but it's getting old...

I'm an avid DSTAR user just put my call sing in your URCALL and you
will
be able to reach me all o

[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Rob]

If I can't duplicate the codec  understand the codec ... improve the
codec ... whether a ham developed it or not is irrelevant.



On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Angelo Glorioso  wrote:

>
>
> Last question. Do you know for a fact that
> the AMBE codecs was not developed by
> a ham radio operator for that company???
> A lot of hams are in that business.
>
> 7 3 de Angelo
>
>
>
>  - Original Message - From: "Rob" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:16 PM
>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
>>
>>
>>  An example of an enhancement to the radio art would be PSK31 for example.
>>>
>>> Created by an amateur radio operator used by amateur radio operators. An
>>> amazing technology for weak signal work. Multiple conversations tacking
>>> place in a single SSB "channel."
>>>
>>> Don't misinterpret what I'm saying ... D-STAR is neat  but if I (or
>>> someone smarter than me) can't fabricate it from core technologies it
>>> can't
>>> be fully understood or improved upon. Which is what this hobby is suppose
>>> to be about.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Angelo Glorioso 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Sorry. I thought we were comparing apples with apples.
>>>>
>>>> PS: By the way, apple (big brother is watching you ) :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message - From: "Rob" 
>>>> To: 
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:26 AM
>>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  I can do all that with my iphone  which are the enhancements?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Angelo Glorioso 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  "To help the believer "  :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Either you have not used Dstar before or have not used it
>>>>>> in a long time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have your tried to send a picture with Dstar??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you chatted voice and text as the same time??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you tried to surf the web with DStar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you used DRats for Emergencies, trainings or other exercises ???
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just to mention a few things that add to the enhancement of the
>>>>>> radio art!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7 3  de Angelo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Original Message - From: "Rob" 
>>>>>> To: 
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:39 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  "To help the non beleiver.. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well I guess it official ... it's now become a religious argument.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> D-STAR is the "fast-food" of amateur radio (much the same way
>>>>>>> repeaters
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> ... but I digress)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not arguing the technical merits  but it does not enhance the
>>>>>>> radio
>>>>>>> art ... it does not promote innovation ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure you can buy a radio ... plug it in  program it or what ever
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> need to do to get on "the net" and talk to someone  you've
>>>>>>> learned
>>>>>>> nothing and you've given nothing back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The spectrum we use is very valuable  if we're not generating any
>>>>>>> value
>>>>>>> for what we've been entrusted with it's going to be sold off to the
>>>>>>> highest
>>>>>>> bidder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We need more of this -> http://wc2fd.com/eaps/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>

[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[STeve Andre']

*absolutely true*

We've surrendered freedoms by using this.  ICOM of course had no real
understanding or appreciation of this (I've talked with higher-up managers
at Dayton), so it's become something we have to live with.

It does reek, however.

--STeve Andre'
wb8wsf  en72

On 11/12/13 15:58, Rob wrote:

If I can't duplicate the codec  understand the codec ... improve the
codec ... whether a ham developed it or not is irrelevant.



On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Angelo Glorioso  wrote:



Last question. Do you know for a fact that
the AMBE codecs was not developed by
a ham radio operator for that company???
A lot of hams are in that business.

7 3 de Angelo



  - Original Message - From: "Rob" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:16 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR


  An example of an enhancement to the radio art would be PSK31 for example.

Created by an amateur radio operator used by amateur radio operators. An
amazing technology for weak signal work. Multiple conversations tacking
place in a single SSB "channel."

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying ... D-STAR is neat  but if I (or
someone smarter than me) can't fabricate it from core technologies it
can't
be fully understood or improved upon. Which is what this hobby is suppose
to be about.



On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Angelo Glorioso 
wrote:

  Sorry. I thought we were comparing apples with apples.

PS: By the way, apple (big brother is watching you ) :-)


- Original Message - From: "Rob" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:26 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR


  I can do all that with my iphone  which are the enhancements?



On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Angelo Glorioso 
wrote:

  "To help the believer "  :-)


Either you have not used Dstar before or have not used it
in a long time.

Have your tried to send a picture with Dstar??

Have you chatted voice and text as the same time??

Have you tried to surf the web with DStar.

Have you used DRats for Emergencies, trainings or other exercises ???


Just to mention a few things that add to the enhancement of the
radio art!!

7 3  de Angelo




- Original Message ----- From: "Rob" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:39 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR


  "To help the non beleiver.. "



Well I guess it official ... it's now become a religious argument.

D-STAR is the "fast-food" of amateur radio (much the same way
repeaters
are
... but I digress)

I'm not arguing the technical merits  but it does not enhance the
radio
art ... it does not promote innovation ...

Sure you can buy a radio ... plug it in  program it or what ever
you
need to do to get on "the net" and talk to someone  you've
learned
nothing and you've given nothing back.

The spectrum we use is very valuable  if we're not generating any
value
for what we've been entrusted with it's going to be sold off to the
highest
bidder.

We need more of this -> http://wc2fd.com/eaps/





On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:32 PM,  wrote:

  On 11 Nov 2013 at 15:22, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:



On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:

Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the >

same

thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with > >

DSTAR

it
is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much >

fun,

there is something for everyone
73,s Damon

But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig. >

Only

  >

one
manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell
to a
handful of approved radio manufacturers.

It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the >

AMBE
codec from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.

--
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

___
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the


author.

Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite

program!

Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

To help the non beleiver.. just read this:

http://www.eham.net/articles/30174

And yes telephone and satellite phone are available but if one
choose
to
use DSTAR it is relevant to discredit him? If you think something
has no place im amateur radio just don't use it and let those who
wants
to
use it enjoy one of the most reliable digital communication
protocol available. Yes some will say DMR,  MotoTRBO are better it's
just
to say competition is already present.

The cost question.
You can already interface a lot of recent HF transceiver to DSTAR
for
700$
and much less if you are technicaly inclined.See below it's just
an example and i'm not connected to their business.


http://dstarradioclub-international.com/dv-adapters-
--for-more-information--manua

[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Angelo Glorioso]

You are right. You can bring a horse to water, but
he will not drink it unless he knows how it is made and
he can modified the taste and the color. h



- Original Message - 
From: "Rob" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 2:58 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR



If I can't duplicate the codec  understand the codec ... improve the
codec ... whether a ham developed it or not is irrelevant.



On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Angelo Glorioso  
wrote:





Last question. Do you know for a fact that
the AMBE codecs was not developed by
a ham radio operator for that company???
A lot of hams are in that business.

7 3 de Angelo



 - Original Message - From: "Rob" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:16 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR


 An example of an enhancement to the radio art would be PSK31 for 
example.


Created by an amateur radio operator used by amateur radio operators. 
An

amazing technology for weak signal work. Multiple conversations tacking
place in a single SSB "channel."

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying ... D-STAR is neat  but if I (or
someone smarter than me) can't fabricate it from core technologies it
can't
be fully understood or improved upon. Which is what this hobby is 
suppose

to be about.



On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Angelo Glorioso 
wrote:

 Sorry. I thought we were comparing apples with apples.


PS: By the way, apple (big brother is watching you ) :-)


- Original Message - From: "Rob" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:26 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR


 I can do all that with my iphone  which are the enhancements?




On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Angelo Glorioso 
wrote:

 "To help the believer "  :-)



Either you have not used Dstar before or have not used it
in a long time.

Have your tried to send a picture with Dstar??

Have you chatted voice and text as the same time??

Have you tried to surf the web with DStar.

Have you used DRats for Emergencies, trainings or other exercises 
???



Just to mention a few things that add to the enhancement of the
radio art!!

7 3  de Angelo




- Original Message - From: "Rob" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:39 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR


 "To help the non beleiver.. "



Well I guess it official ... it's now become a religious argument.

D-STAR is the "fast-food" of amateur radio (much the same way
repeaters
are
... but I digress)

I'm not arguing the technical merits  but it does not enhance 
the

radio
art ... it does not promote innovation ...

Sure you can buy a radio ... plug it in  program it or what 
ever

you
need to do to get on "the net" and talk to someone  you've
learned
nothing and you've given nothing back.

The spectrum we use is very valuable  if we're not generating 
any

value
for what we've been entrusted with it's going to be sold off to the
highest
bidder.

We need more of this -> http://wc2fd.com/eaps/





On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:32 PM,  wrote:

 On 11 Nov 2013 at 15:22, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:



> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:
> > Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the >
> same
> > thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with > 
> >  >

DSTAR
> > it
> > is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio so much 
> >  >

> fun,
> > there is something for everyone
> > 73,s Damon
>
> But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig. >
Only
>  >
one
manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only 
sell

to a
handful of approved radio manufacturers.
>
> It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the >
AMBE
codec from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur 
radio.

>
> --
> Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
>
> ___
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the
>
author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur 
> satellite

program!
> Subscription settings: 
> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb


To help the non beleiver.. just read this:

http://www.eham.net/articles/30174

And yes telephone and satellite phone are available but if one
choose
to
use DSTAR it is relevant to discredit him? If you think something
has no place im amateur radio just don't use it and let those who
wants
to
use it enjoy one of the most reliable digital communication
protocol available. Yes some will say DMR,  MotoTRBO are better 
it's

just
to say competition is already present.

The cost question.
You can already interface a lot of recent HF transceiver to DSTAR
for
700$
and much less if you are technicaly inclined.See below it'

[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Craig Gagner]

In a few more years the Patent on the original chip will run out and it will
be open at that point. 

-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of STeve Andre'
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 4:18 PM
To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

*absolutely true*

We've surrendered freedoms by using this.  ICOM of course had no real
understanding or appreciation of this (I've talked with higher-up managers
at Dayton), so it's become something we have to live with.

It does reek, however.

--STeve Andre'
wb8wsf  en72

On 11/12/13 15:58, Rob wrote:
> If I can't duplicate the codec  understand the codec ... improve 
> the codec ... whether a ham developed it or not is irrelevant.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Angelo Glorioso 
wrote:
>
>>
>> Last question. Do you know for a fact that the AMBE codecs was not 
>> developed by a ham radio operator for that company???
>> A lot of hams are in that business.
>>
>> 7 3 de Angelo
>>
>>
>>
>>   - Original Message - From: "Rob" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:16 PM
>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
>>>
>>>
>>>   An example of an enhancement to the radio art would be PSK31 for
example.
>>>> Created by an amateur radio operator used by amateur radio 
>>>> operators. An amazing technology for weak signal work. Multiple 
>>>> conversations tacking place in a single SSB "channel."
>>>>
>>>> Don't misinterpret what I'm saying ... D-STAR is neat  but if I 
>>>> (or someone smarter than me) can't fabricate it from core 
>>>> technologies it can't be fully understood or improved upon. Which 
>>>> is what this hobby is suppose to be about.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Angelo Glorioso 
>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Sorry. I thought we were comparing apples with apples.
>>>>> PS: By the way, apple (big brother is watching you ) :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message - From: "Rob" 
>>>>> To: 
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 11:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   I can do all that with my iphone  which are the enhancements?
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Angelo Glorioso 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   "To help the believer "  :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Either you have not used Dstar before or have not used it in a 
>>>>>>> long time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have your tried to send a picture with Dstar??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you chatted voice and text as the same time??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you tried to surf the web with DStar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you used DRats for Emergencies, trainings or other exercises
???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just to mention a few things that add to the enhancement of the 
>>>>>>> radio art!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 7 3  de Angelo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Original Message - From: "Rob" 
>>>>>>> To: 
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:39 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   "To help the non beleiver.. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well I guess it official ... it's now become a religious argument.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> D-STAR is the "fast-food" of amateur radio (much the same way 
>>>>>>>> repeaters are ... but I digress)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not arguing the technical merits  but it does not 
>>>>>>>> enhance the radio art ... it does not promote innovation ...
>>>>>>>>
>&g

[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Craig Gagner]

And we all know how open source that iPhone is. 

-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:26 PM
To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

I can do all that with my iphone  which are the enhancements?


On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Angelo Glorioso  wrote:

> "To help the believer "  :-)
>
> Either you have not used Dstar before or have not used it in a long 
> time.
>
> Have your tried to send a picture with Dstar??
>
> Have you chatted voice and text as the same time??
>
> Have you tried to surf the web with DStar.
>
> Have you used DRats for Emergencies, trainings or other exercises ???
>
>
> Just to mention a few things that add to the enhancement of the radio 
> art!!
>
> 7 3  de Angelo
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message ----- From: "Rob" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:39 AM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
>
>
>  "To help the non beleiver.. "
>>
>> Well I guess it official ... it's now become a religious argument.
>>
>> D-STAR is the "fast-food" of amateur radio (much the same way 
>> repeaters are ... but I digress)
>>
>> I'm not arguing the technical merits  but it does not enhance the 
>> radio art ... it does not promote innovation ...
>>
>> Sure you can buy a radio ... plug it in  program it or what ever 
>> you need to do to get on "the net" and talk to someone  you've 
>> learned nothing and you've given nothing back.
>>
>> The spectrum we use is very valuable  if we're not generating any 
>> value for what we've been entrusted with it's going to be sold off to 
>> the highest bidder.
>>
>> We need more of this -> http://wc2fd.com/eaps/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:32 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>  On 11 Nov 2013 at 15:22, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:
>>> > > Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the 
>>> > > same thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with 
>>> > > DSTAR it is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio 
>>> > > so much fun, there is something for everyone 73,s Damon
>>> >
>>> > But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig.  
>>> > Only >
>>> one
>>> manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell 
>>> to a handful of approved radio manufacturers.
>>> >
>>> > It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the 
>>> > AMBE
>>> codec from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >
>>> author.
>>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
>>> program!
>>> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
>>>
>>> To help the non beleiver.. just read this:
>>>
>>> http://www.eham.net/articles/30174
>>>
>>> And yes telephone and satellite phone are available but if one 
>>> choose to use DSTAR it is relevant to discredit him? If you think 
>>> something has no place im amateur radio just don't use it and let 
>>> those who wants to use it enjoy one of the most reliable digital 
>>> communication protocol available. Yes some will say DMR,  MotoTRBO 
>>> are better it's just to say competition is already present.
>>>
>>> The cost question.
>>> You can already interface a lot of recent HF transceiver to DSTAR 
>>> for 700$ and much less if you are technicaly inclined.See below it's 
>>> just an example and i'm not connected to their business.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://dstarradioclub-international.com/dv-adapters-
>>> --for-more-information--manual-links.html?success=1&
>>> ucfid=510239683496259871&text=Thank+
>>> you.+Your+information+has+been+submitted
>>>
>>> I don't know where this "I don't use it and as i think it's not Ham 
>>> radio no one should use it" trend come from but it's getting ol

[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Goody K3NG]

The sole company that manufacturers AMBE chips used for D-STAR just
announced their bankruptcy and halted all production and sales of chips.
 It is rumored there is a potential buyer for the AMBE encoding
intellectual property, but chip production and shipping may not resume for
a year and devices may triple or quadruple in price.

Just kidding.  I just made this up to illustrate the problem with using
proprietary technology in amateur radio modes.  :-)
___
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Goody K3NG]

If the iPhone is discontinued, one can just pickup another phone.  There's
no single owner of the LTE protocol or the various 3G protocols.

I don't think the AMBE patent material is complete enough to write an
implementation, otherwise someone would have created an open source version
of it by now.


On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Craig Gagner  wrote:

> And we all know how open source that iPhone is.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
> Behalf Of Rob
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:26 PM
> To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
>
> I can do all that with my iphone  which are the enhancements?
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Angelo Glorioso 
> wrote:
>
> > "To help the believer "  :-)
> >
> > Either you have not used Dstar before or have not used it in a long
> > time.
> >
> > Have your tried to send a picture with Dstar??
> >
> > Have you chatted voice and text as the same time??
> >
> > Have you tried to surf the web with DStar.
> >
> > Have you used DRats for Emergencies, trainings or other exercises ???
> >
> >
> > Just to mention a few things that add to the enhancement of the radio
> > art!!
> >
> > 7 3  de Angelo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - Original Message - From: "Rob" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:39 AM
> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR
> >
> >
> >  "To help the non beleiver.. "
> >>
> >> Well I guess it official ... it's now become a religious argument.
> >>
> >> D-STAR is the "fast-food" of amateur radio (much the same way
> >> repeaters are ... but I digress)
> >>
> >> I'm not arguing the technical merits  but it does not enhance the
> >> radio art ... it does not promote innovation ...
> >>
> >> Sure you can buy a radio ... plug it in  program it or what ever
> >> you need to do to get on "the net" and talk to someone  you've
> >> learned nothing and you've given nothing back.
> >>
> >> The spectrum we use is very valuable  if we're not generating any
> >> value for what we've been entrusted with it's going to be sold off to
> >> the highest bidder.
> >>
> >> We need more of this -> http://wc2fd.com/eaps/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:32 PM,  wrote:
> >>
> >>  On 11 Nov 2013 at 15:22, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 08:46:24AM -0600, damon runion wrote:
> >>> > > Well back in the days of AM and when SSB came out it was the
> >>> > > same thinking then BUT what has happened to AM . Same thing with
> >>> > > DSTAR it is growing and will grow . Thats what makes ham radio
> >>> > > so much fun, there is something for everyone 73,s Damon
> >>> >
> >>> > But the difference there is that *anyone* can make an SSB rig.
> >>> > Only >
> >>> one
> >>> manufacturer is allowed to make AMBE codecs, and they will only sell
> >>> to a handful of approved radio manufacturers.
> >>> >
> >>> > It is illegal to make your own DStar radio, without buying the
> >>> > AMBE
> >>> codec from DVSI.  That sort of thing has no place in amateur radio.
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
> >>> >
> >>> > ___
> >>> > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >
> >>> author.
> >>> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
> >>> program!
> >>> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> >>>
> >>> To help the non beleiver.. just read this:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.eham.net/articles/30174
> >>>
> >>> And yes telephone and satellite phone are available but if one
> >>> choose to use DSTAR it is relevant to discredit him? If you think
> >>> something has no place im amateur radio just don't use it and let
> >>> those who wants to use it enjoy one of the most reliable digital
> >>> communication protocol available. Yes some will say

[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Craig Gagner]

Good One, I won't mention all the open source projects that have died off
because the originally developer quit, and no one knows how to figure out
his code. 

-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Goody K3NG
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 5:22 PM
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

The sole company that manufacturers AMBE chips used for D-STAR just
announced their bankruptcy and halted all production and sales of chips.
 It is rumored there is a potential buyer for the AMBE encoding intellectual
property, but chip production and shipping may not resume for a year and
devices may triple or quadruple in price.

Just kidding.  I just made this up to illustrate the problem with using
proprietary technology in amateur radio modes.  :-)
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Angelo Glorioso]

For that matter, that has been a problem with finals in
radios. This is the main reason for many manufactures
to drop support.


- Original Message - 
From: "Goody K3NG" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 4:21 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR



The sole company that manufacturers AMBE chips used for D-STAR just
announced their bankruptcy and halted all production and sales of chips.
It is rumored there is a potential buyer for the AMBE encoding
intellectual property, but chip production and shipping may not resume for
a year and devices may triple or quadruple in price.

Just kidding.  I just made this up to illustrate the problem with using
proprietary technology in amateur radio modes.  :-)
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR

[Gordon JC Pearce]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 06:45:02PM -0500, Goody K3NG wrote:

> I don't think the AMBE patent material is complete enough to write an
> implementation, otherwise someone would have created an open source version
> of it by now.

There is mbelib, but because AMBE and friends are patented it is not legal to 
write or use anything other than DVSI's chip.

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

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[amsat-bb] Re: D-Star cubesat

[Rizwan 'Drake' Merchant]

your link to the paper seems broke.

On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 5:37 PM,  wrote:

> Following the small satellite developers workshop in April there are a
> number of interesting papers available online.
>
> A cubesat using D-Star which has been selected for launch on the Vega
> launcher is certainly an eye catching project.
>
>
> http://atl.calpoly.edu/~bklofas/Presentations/DevelopersWorkshop2009/5_Missions_1/7_Pisane-OUFTI.pdf
>
> Personally, my favourite so far is the 1U propulsion system capable of
> propelling a 3U cubesat with a delta V of 400 metres per second. ( This is
> enough to go from 600km to about 1900km altitude !)
>
> Have fun reading...
>
> David? G0MRF
> 
> AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move.
> Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
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>



-- 
Sincerely,
Rizwan Merchant
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[amsat-bb] Re: D-Star cubesat

[Graham Shirville]

Hi All,

The link below is now working again!

cheers

Graham
G3VZV

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:37 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] D-Star cubesat


> Following the small satellite developers workshop in April there are a 
> number of interesting papers available online.
>
> A cubesat using D-Star which has been selected for launch on the Vega 
> launcher is certainly an eye catching project.
>
> http://atl.calpoly.edu/~bklofas/Presentations/DevelopersWorkshop2009/5_Missions_1/7_Pisane-OUFTI.pdf
>
> Personally, my favourite so far is the 1U propulsion system capable of 
> propelling a 3U cubesat with a delta V of 400 metres per second. ( This is 
> enough to go from 600km to about 1900km altitude !)
>
> Have fun reading...
>
> David? G0MRF
> 
> AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the 
> move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
> ___
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> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb 

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[amsat-bb] Re: D-Star cubesat

[Graham Shirville]

Ok lets try 3rd time lucky...

Please go to the main page and click on the particular presentation you want 
to review!

http://cubesat.atl.calpoly.edu:80/pages/workshops/developers-workshop-2009.php

thanks

Graham
G3VZV
- Original Message - 
From: "Graham Shirville" 
To: ; 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] D-Star cubesat


> Hi All,
>
> The link below is now working again!
>
> cheers
>
> Graham
> G3VZV
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:37 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] D-Star cubesat
>
>
>> Following the small satellite developers workshop in April there are a 
>> number of interesting papers available online.
>>
>> A cubesat using D-Star which has been selected for launch on the Vega 
>> launcher is certainly an eye catching project.
>>
>> http://atl.calpoly.edu/~bklofas/Presentations/DevelopersWorkshop2009/5_Missions_1/7_Pisane-OUFTI.pdf
>>
>> Personally, my favourite so far is the 1U propulsion system capable of 
>> propelling a 3U cubesat with a delta V of 400 metres per second. ( This 
>> is enough to go from 600km to about 1900km altitude !)
>>
>> Have fun reading...
>>
>> David? G0MRF
>> 
>> AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the 
>> move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
>> ___
>> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
>> program!
>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 

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[amsat-bb] Re: D-STAR net

[Dennis Griffin]

FYI, D-STAR is an acronym for Digital Smart Technology for Amateur Radio, just 
as AMSAT is an acronym, and to save confusion, acronyms should always be 
expressed in all caps.

73 de Dennis KD7CAC
Scottsdale, AZ
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[amsat-bb] Re: D-Star Sat Recordings?

[Luc Leblanc]

On 26 Sep 2010 at 16:52, Tony wrote:

Date sent:  Sun, 26 Sep 2010 16:52:49 -0400
From:   Tony 
Subject:[amsat-bb]  D-Star Sat Recordings?
To: AMSAT-BB 

>   All,
> 
> Does Anyone have a D-Star satellite recording?
> 
> Tony -K2MO
Hi Tony

You can listen to my DSTAR AO-27 test on my web page see below

http://www.qsl.net/ve2dwe/

"-"


Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
Skype VE2DWE
www.qsl.net/ve2dwe
DSTAR urcall VE2DWE
WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE

 
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR AMSAT NET

[Rob Roschewsk]

Is there a non-proprietary way to join??



On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:44 PM,  wrote:

> How many satellite ops have D STAR radios ?  Join us tomorrow night on REF
> 60B at 0100 utc
> WA4HFN Damon em55
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR AMSAT NET

[Wayne Estes]

WA4HFN wrote:

How many satellite ops have D STAR radios ?  Join us tomorrow night on 
REF 60B at 0100 utc


W9AE replies:

I've seen AMSAT net announcement messages for years, and NEVER 
understood them.  The messages never specify a terrestrial frequency or 
an amateur satellite.  This leads me to the conclusion that the AMSAT 
net doesn't use ham radio as the communications medium.


What communications medium is used to conduct the AMSAT net?

Is it on a 2-way channel on a commercial satellite?
Is it on the Internet?
What is REF 60B?

If the AMSAT net doesn't use ham radio, why not?

Please explain...

Wayne Estes W9AE
Oakland, Oregon, USA
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR AMSAT NET

[Clayton Coleman]

Soon someone will respond stating that CW should be the only communications
medium for nets and that they wouldn't participate unless the net was on a
HEO satellite.   Even better, the individual won't pay their dues for AMSAT
unless they are the designated net control station.

73
Clayton
W5PFG
 On Sep 25, 2013 3:35 PM, "Wayne Estes"  wrote:

> WA4HFN wrote:
>
> How many satellite ops have D STAR radios ?  Join us tomorrow night on REF
> 60B at 0100 utc
>
> W9AE replies:
>
> I've seen AMSAT net announcement messages for years, and NEVER understood
> them.  The messages never specify a terrestrial frequency or an amateur
> satellite.  This leads me to the conclusion that the AMSAT net doesn't use
> ham radio as the communications medium.
>
> What communications medium is used to conduct the AMSAT net?
>
> Is it on a 2-way channel on a commercial satellite?
> Is it on the Internet?
> What is REF 60B?
>
> If the AMSAT net doesn't use ham radio, why not?
>
> Please explain...
>
> Wayne Estes W9AE
> Oakland, Oregon, USA
> __**_
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR AMSAT NET

[Rob Roschewsk]

I remember the good ol' days when the amsat net was weekly on 75 meters
(was it Tuesday nights?) and wa2lqq (sk) was net control ...
On Sep 25, 2013 4:35 PM, "Wayne Estes"  wrote:

> WA4HFN wrote:
>
> How many satellite ops have D STAR radios ?  Join us tomorrow night on REF
> 60B at 0100 utc
>
> W9AE replies:
>
> I've seen AMSAT net announcement messages for years, and NEVER understood
> them.  The messages never specify a terrestrial frequency or an amateur
> satellite.  This leads me to the conclusion that the AMSAT net doesn't use
> ham radio as the communications medium.
>
> What communications medium is used to conduct the AMSAT net?
>
> Is it on a 2-way channel on a commercial satellite?
> Is it on the Internet?
> What is REF 60B?
>
> If the AMSAT net doesn't use ham radio, why not?
>
> Please explain...
>
> Wayne Estes W9AE
> Oakland, Oregon, USA
> __**_
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR AMSAT NET

[Greg D]

It's still on weekly, on 20 meters.  14.282, 18:00z-19:00z for random 
checkins, bulletins at 19:00z.


Net controls are Keith, W5IU and Larry, W7LB.

Greg  KO6TH


Rob Roschewsk wrote:

I remember the good ol' days when the amsat net was weekly on 75 meters
(was it Tuesday nights?) and wa2lqq (sk) was net control ...
On Sep 25, 2013 4:35 PM, "Wayne Estes"  wrote:


WA4HFN wrote:

How many satellite ops have D STAR radios ?  Join us tomorrow night on REF
60B at 0100 utc

W9AE replies:

I've seen AMSAT net announcement messages for years, and NEVER understood
them.  The messages never specify a terrestrial frequency or an amateur
satellite.  This leads me to the conclusion that the AMSAT net doesn't use
ham radio as the communications medium.

What communications medium is used to conduct the AMSAT net?

Is it on a 2-way channel on a commercial satellite?
Is it on the Internet?
What is REF 60B?

If the AMSAT net doesn't use ham radio, why not?

Please explain...

Wayne Estes W9AE
Oakland, Oregon, USA
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[amsat-bb] Re: D-STAR in Space Video

[Trevor .]

The video is a bit out of date now. 

A D-STAR satellite was once planned for the first launch of Vega, expected to 
take place end of Jan 2012 but there is no D-STAR CubeSat on that flight.

73 Trevor M5AKA

--- On Mon, 26/12/11, Mark Thompson  wrote:
> D-STAR in Space Video 
> by Ham Brief 
> 
> 
> http://blip.tv/73s-hambrief-ham-radio-update/73s-org-hambrief-44-2553785
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[amsat-bb] Re: D-STAR in Space Video

[Craig Gagner]

Maybe Icom will pay for a launch..

-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Trevor .
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 5:13 PM
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D-STAR in Space Video

The video is a bit out of date now. 

A D-STAR satellite was once planned for the first launch of Vega, expected
to take place end of Jan 2012 but there is no D-STAR CubeSat on that flight.

73 Trevor M5AKA

--- On Mon, 26/12/11, Mark Thompson  wrote:
> D-STAR in Space Video 
> by Ham Brief 
> 
> 
> http://blip.tv/73s-hambrief-ham-radio-update/73s-org-hambrief-44-2553785
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[amsat-bb] Re: D Star Amsat users net

[N0JY]

Hi Damon,

Could you please put that start time in a U.S. timezone or better yet, 
UTC?  I'm too lazy to look up the timezone for Memphis! :-)


73
Jerry
N0JY

On 7/14/2013 1:00 PM, damon runion wrote:

I will start a net on D Star on 1 August(Thursday evenings) for Amsat
users. It will be at 8:pm local Memphis,TN on REF 60 B in Nashville, TN.
  through the W4LET repeater in the Memphis area. If you have a D Star radio
or a DV Dongle , please join in and share any info on grid trips you may be
planning or info on someone that maybe planning one. If you have equipment
for sale or if you are looking for something you may list it.Let's keep the
rocket science off this net. I wish to support the use of the satellites.
If anyone would like to be an alternate net controller , please contact me.
I will be on each Thursday evening at 8:pm local time in an informal mode
and on 1 August the net will be formal.
  Thanks
WA4HFN  EM55ab
Damon Runion
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[amsat-bb] Re: D Star Amsat users net

[Dave Webb KB1PVH]

UTC -5, I believe.

Dave-KB1PVH

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR - try freeDV instead

[Ross Whenmouth]

Hi,

Rather than trying to get a D-Star radio to QSY in less than 5 kHz 
steps, you could try freeDV with your existing SSB transceivers?


D-Star occupies 6.25 kHz bandwidth on the transponder, but freeDV only 
needs 1.25 kHz (half of a normal SSB voice emission).


You can get freeDV (experimental) software here:
http://freedv.org/tiki-index.php


Unlike the early days of SSB (which has been the subject of various 
patents) AMBE is unlikely to ever be free, even after the patents expire 
as DVSI Inc. treats AMBE as a TRADE SECRET, and the only way to get the 
codec is to buy the chip (a locked TI DSP pre-loaded with AMBE). DVSI's 
patents cover some of the technology used in AMBE, but these patents do 
not explain enough about the AMBE process or protocol for someone to 
write their own AMBE-compatible codec.


Once the patents expire, someone with the right resources might be able 
to hardware reverse engineer the firmware in the AMBE chip (very 
difficult!) and write a specification of the AMBE process/protocol, 
which someone else who has never seen inside the AMBE firmware can then 
use to write a "clean room" AMBE compatible codec. Depending on the laws 
in force at the time, it might also be illegal to de-bond the AMBE chip 
and reverse engineer the codec therein. However, all this is probably 
requires far more effort than it is worth - better to spend time, energy 
and money on developing an alternate codec that is truly "open".



FreeDV uses an OFDM modem (16 QPSK carriers + 1 BPSK pilot), designed to 
have strong resistance to the multi-path propagation typical on the HF 
bands that it was originally intended to be used on. However, this means 
that is has a ~ 12dB peak to average power ratio, which imposes 
linearity requirements on the transmit signal path. For satellite 
operation, where path loss is a much greater concern than multi-path, 
the use of a serial tone modem (single carrier QPSK, BPSK, GMSK, etc) 
for freeDV would reduce the linearity requirements of the transmit 
signal path making it easier for an otherwise marginal ground station to 
produce enough EIRP to work the bird.



73's ZL2WRW
Ross Whenmouth
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay

[Gordon JC Pearce]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 06:57:39PM +, wa4...@comcast.net wrote:
>  I would like to see the DSTAR users pick a REFLECTOR and use it as a state 
> side intercomm. How cool would that be? Some one asking the group , hey who 
> was that in fm-- or CN--or what was the call of the guy in DN--. Look at how 
> we could all help each other while working the birds. 

Why not just use your phone?  Far more reliable, far better coverage, far 
better battery life and a tiny fraction of the cost...

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay

[Donald Jacob]

Gordon,
If you use that logic, then why use amateur radio at all. Just use your
cell phone and you can talk to anyone, anywhere (that will answer!).

Hobby, learn, have fun, meet others with the same interests etc
Guess something got lost along the way!

WB5EKU




On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 06:57:39PM +, wa4...@comcast.net wrote:
> >  I would like to see the DSTAR users pick a REFLECTOR and use it as a
> state side intercomm. How cool would that be? Some one asking the group ,
> hey who was that in fm-- or CN--or what was the call of the guy in DN--.
> Look at how we could all help each other while working the birds.
>
> Why not just use your phone?  Far more reliable, far better coverage, far
> better battery life and a tiny fraction of the cost...
>
> --
> Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay

[Gordon JC Pearce]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 08:34:29PM -0800, Donald Jacob wrote:
> Gordon,
> If you use that logic, then why use amateur radio at all. Just use your
> cell phone and you can talk to anyone, anywhere (that will answer!).
> 
> Hobby, learn, have fun, meet others with the same interests etc
> Guess something got lost along the way!
> 
Most of the time if I just want to talk to somebody, that's what I'd do.  In an 
emergency I'd rely on my mobile phone rather than someone's lash-up of  
consumer-grade networking equipment and dangly wires hooked up to the latest and
greatest digital toy.   

Okay, sell it to me.  What do you learn from DStar?  What's so fun about it?  As
far as I can see, it's a sealed box with no real opportunity to experiment. 
Being taken to court for building your own doesn't sound like a lot of fun to   
me, although I guess you'd learn a lot about patent law. 

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay

[Joe]

I agree on that also.

Now I'm not picking on them here. But I am a member of Four local 
Amateur Radio Clubs. And have been an Amateur since 1975 and have seen 
this "Hobby" change a lot through the years. And in all four clubs 90% 
of the newly licensed get into this Hobby now, through the Public 
service aspect of the hobby. IE: Skywarn, communications during 
disasters,  support like in parades etc. While there is nothing wrong 
with this. But these newcomers do not seem to get the thrill of just 
getting on the air, and throw out a CQ just to see who comes back. Just 
for the thrill of the unknown. And that is sad.


I feel that Amateur Radio is more to them as the Service part of the 
Amateur Radio Service. Not the experimenting and exploring part.


Joe WB9SBD
Sig
The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 11/12/2013 10:34 PM, Donald Jacob wrote:

Gordon,
If you use that logic, then why use amateur radio at all. Just use your
cell phone and you can talk to anyone, anywhere (that will answer!).

Hobby, learn, have fun, meet others with the same interests etc
Guess something got lost along the way!

WB5EKU




On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:


On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 06:57:39PM +, wa4...@comcast.net wrote:

  I would like to see the DSTAR users pick a REFLECTOR and use it as a

state side intercomm. How cool would that be? Some one asking the group ,
hey who was that in fm-- or CN--or what was the call of the guy in DN--.
Look at how we could all help each other while working the birds.

Why not just use your phone?  Far more reliable, far better coverage, far
better battery life and a tiny fraction of the cost...

--
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay

[B J]

On 11/13/13, Joe  wrote:
> I agree on that also.
>
> Now I'm not picking on them here. But I am a member of Four local
> Amateur Radio Clubs. And have been an Amateur since 1975 and have seen
> this "Hobby" change a lot through the years. And in all four clubs 90%
> of the newly licensed get into this Hobby now, through the Public
> service aspect of the hobby. IE: Skywarn, communications during
> disasters,  support like in parades etc. While there is nothing wrong
> with this. But these newcomers do not seem to get the thrill of just
> getting on the air, and throw out a CQ just to see who comes back. Just
> for the thrill of the unknown. And that is sad.
>
> I feel that Amateur Radio is more to them as the Service part of the
> Amateur Radio Service. Not the experimenting and exploring part.

I often get a similar reaction when I talk about amateur radio,
particularly from younger people.  They can't quite grasp why I'd want
to put together a station and, perhaps, talk with someone when there
are easier ways of doing that.  Even if I don't have any contacts, I
like to find out just what the hardware can do and how far my signal
can go.  It's fun to know that I can reach a satellite that's, say,
somewhere over the Arctic Ocean north of Siberia putting only 5 W into
my Arrow yagi.

Many peope, I suppose, have become accustomed to the plug-and-play
aspect of electronic devices and expect to have clear 2-way
conversations every time.  Tinkering with something in order to hear
or be heard is likely something they wouldn't like or would be too
bothersome to them.

Then again, my interest in radio began as an SWL while I was still in
high school over 40 years ago and I listened to broadcasts from, as
the song says, "far away places with strange-sounding names".  It was
fun bragging to my classmates that I listened to, say, Radio
Australia, not that any of them paid much attention to it.

73s

Bernhard VA6BMJ@ DO33FL


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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay

[R Oler]

in large manner chat rooms and the like have taken the place for some of the 
CQ...Robert WB5MZO/S2

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:51 PM, "B J"  wrote:
> 
>> On 11/13/13, Joe  wrote:
>> I agree on that also.
>> 
>> Now I'm not picking on them here. But I am a member of Four local
>> Amateur Radio Clubs. And have been an Amateur since 1975 and have seen
>> this "Hobby" change a lot through the years. And in all four clubs 90%
>> of the newly licensed get into this Hobby now, through the Public
>> service aspect of the hobby. IE: Skywarn, communications during
>> disasters,  support like in parades etc. While there is nothing wrong
>> with this. But these newcomers do not seem to get the thrill of just
>> getting on the air, and throw out a CQ just to see who comes back. Just
>> for the thrill of the unknown. And that is sad.
>> 
>> I feel that Amateur Radio is more to them as the Service part of the
>> Amateur Radio Service. Not the experimenting and exploring part.
> 
> I often get a similar reaction when I talk about amateur radio,
> particularly from younger people.  They can't quite grasp why I'd want
> to put together a station and, perhaps, talk with someone when there
> are easier ways of doing that.  Even if I don't have any contacts, I
> like to find out just what the hardware can do and how far my signal
> can go.  It's fun to know that I can reach a satellite that's, say,
> somewhere over the Arctic Ocean north of Siberia putting only 5 W into
> my Arrow yagi.
> 
> Many peope, I suppose, have become accustomed to the plug-and-play
> aspect of electronic devices and expect to have clear 2-way
> conversations every time.  Tinkering with something in order to hear
> or be heard is likely something they wouldn't like or would be too
> bothersome to them.
> 
> Then again, my interest in radio began as an SWL while I was still in
> high school over 40 years ago and I listened to broadcasts from, as
> the song says, "far away places with strange-sounding names".  It was
> fun bragging to my classmates that I listened to, say, Radio
> Australia, not that any of them paid much attention to it.
> 
> 73s
> 
> Bernhard VA6BMJ@ DO33FL
> 
> 
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay

[Rich/wa4bue]

Hi all,

I agree with what is being said.

The K4AMG MARC works with you in a VO TECH center Broadcast Radio 
Class -WFOS FM 88.7, for over 10 years now.  You can Google the station 24/7 
and listen to live stream.  When the students are in class they are on the 
air.   We are also  in the early stages of assisting with an electronics 
class in the Chesapeake, VA Public Schools.
We see teens all of the time.  Today most of the teens we see kind of know 
what a screw driver and a pair of pliers are, but never heard of a ratchet 
and socket.

Case in point:

Last May we gave the teens assembly instructions and tools so they could 
assemble our YAGI antennas for OSCAR communications, and install the rotor - 
in general get the antennas ready for a OSCAR pass.
We had to show them how to use the tools!  Walk them through each step of 
the instructions as they texted to their friends this NOVEL experience.


You might had heard us on FO 29, W4FOS, the schools club station.

We have also worked with "BOE BOT" robot in the school.  It requires 
moderate assembly.  Assembly was a problem for them - programming went 
fairly well (circles. squares etc).


On a good note a few years ago we bought RAMSEY FM Radio receiver kits and 
as class projects we taught them how to solder and in less then 3 classes 2 
hours 6 hours they put the radios together, and with less then,, and hour 
they used a scope and debugged the one radio that did not work, so they can 
do hands on when they want to.


What I am finding is shops (hand on stuff) is disappearing and to work in 
trades, the teens are now required to take 2 year JR. College to be 
certified.


Back to class, for many years we have put the students on HF during School 
Club Roundup, and they get insulted and jammed by older hams that own HF 
frequencies.  We tried to place them on "IRLP" and around here any way some 
of the old guys are so bitter they are using bad language and distasteful 
conversations, not that the teens don't know and use this language, but not 
in the class room, so we don't go there.

Even one of our largest clubs in the area don't want to work with teens.

This year we will try to introduce ISS data and SSTV to the class.  By the 
way we can not go SSTV on HF, most of the pictures are not suitable for the 
class room.


In short it is difficult to give teens a full view of amateur radio when 
some of the idiots on the air and are just that real idiots.  This part of 
the same discussion "Ethics" on the School Club Roundup users group ... 
Enough Venting.


And finding volunteer Elmers to teach in the class room, very difficult, as 
most hams of the 80s and beyond know nothing but how to operate their 
radios, can not even make their antennas.  The exception are those wonderful 
guys that worked in electronics and communications in the service or their 
day to day work.  God Bless them.  Our newest and best resource for Elmers 
are members of the Society of Broadcast Engineers Chapter 54, they have 
taken time off to teach in the class room.


You can check out our home page at K4AMG.org, to get an idea about what we 
are trying to do.  Please give us some input about what you think we are 
doing right or wrong.


God Bless

Rich
W4BUE


- Original Message - 
From: "R Oler" 

To: "B J" 
Cc: "Joe" ; 
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:38 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay


in large manner chat rooms and the like have taken the place for some of 
the CQ...Robert WB5MZO/S2


Sent from my iPad


On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:51 PM, "B J"  wrote:


On 11/13/13, Joe  wrote:
I agree on that also.

Now I'm not picking on them here. But I am a member of Four local
Amateur Radio Clubs. And have been an Amateur since 1975 and have seen
this "Hobby" change a lot through the years. And in all four clubs 90%
of the newly licensed get into this Hobby now, through the Public
service aspect of the hobby. IE: Skywarn, communications during
disasters,  support like in parades etc. While there is nothing wrong
with this. But these newcomers do not seem to get the thrill of just
getting on the air, and throw out a CQ just to see who comes back. Just
for the thrill of the unknown. And that is sad.

I feel that Amateur Radio is more to them as the Service part of the
Amateur Radio Service. Not the experimenting and exploring part.


I often get a similar reaction when I talk about amateur radio,
particularly from younger people.  They can't quite grasp why I'd want
to put together a station and, perhaps, talk with someone when there
are easier ways of doing that.  Even if I don't have any contacts, I
like to find out just what the hardware can do and how far my signal
can go.  It's fun to know that I can reach a satellite that's, say,
somewhere over the Arctic Ocean north of Siberia putting only 5 W into
my Arrow yagi.

M

[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay

[Gordon JC Pearce]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 01:49:39PM -0500, Rich/wa4bue wrote:
> 
> This year we will try to introduce ISS data and SSTV to the class.
> By the way we can not go SSTV on HF, most of the pictures are not
> suitable for the class room.
> 

You know, they're teenagers.  Whether or not you agree with what *some* (a 
small minority) of SSTVers transmit, I think there's a fair chance they've seen 
swimsuit pictures already.

Good luck with getting the ISS to transmit any usable SSTV.  The past few times 
it's all been a bit broken.  Maybe we can devise a nice solid SSTV subsystem to 
take up?

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay

[lucleblanc6]

Hi Gordon

I give you my answers in your text.



> Okay, sell it to me.  What do you learn from DStar?

A lot:

A new communication digital protocol who make me contact the world while 
driving my car and sending my GPS position (DGPRS) at the same 
time like you do with APRS we both take a learning curve at the beginning but 
DSTAR give you an always 100% interference/noise free audio 
always within RF signal path limitation who can be overcome in part by using 
more than 10 watts of output power. If a power limitation can 
be a limiting factor for you due to the foundation licence this will give you 
the an incentive to get the Intermediate Licence or the 
Advanced Licence to overcome any limiting power issues. If you already get your 
advance licence you are probably aware how effective a 
DSTAR signal is compare to an analog signal but even with 10 watts you are 
about 30KM from MB6ICS C DSTAR repeater and power should not be 
an issue for you.

Here is a video testing FM versus D-STAR in weak signal path.   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyYhLtS-0gE

Aside of giving an incentive to discover some other side of amateur radio like 
HF SSB transmission DSTAR can now be used on HF as many 
other digital mode even on satellite you can just hear my first ever recorded 
DSTAR transmission on AO-27 on my web page  
www.qsl.net/ve2dwe.

The programming of a DSTAR radio is quite challendging but it is fascinating 
how a digital encoding can make your signal travel all over 
the world as an APRS signal do. It's not much different than programming an 
aprs header but it gives you the possibility to some sort of 
selective calling when you program your other station call sign letter lets say 
in Australia and the Gateway system lets you contact him 
instantanly with the same audio quality as a local station.

In an emergency situation the chat option is a very powerfull tool just see 
this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v--nSTCSO64
And some more info's regarding an emergency DSTAR station  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8dUJp0rc0g


>What's so fun about it?  As far as I can see, it's a sealed box with no real 
>opportunity to experiment.

On this question i will anwer you first the reverse way eg: by a question. Show 
and tell me in any modern type of transceiver how you 
experiment and what you do for experimenting. In my own case i sometimes open 
the casing for some very minor mods and all stops there. BTW 
the DSTAR boxes are no more sealed than any other type of transceiver?

I still don't get your point here? And please defined what you find fun for you 
in Ham Radio? HF qso's? Satellite QSO's? VHF/UHF direct 
contact? Repeater rag chew? probably something else? Is it possible someone 
only simply wants to talk on his sealed box? Do you talk in 
your analog FM transceiver? or on your HF radio in ssb or CW? Do you have fun 
doing that?

Could be this link can be of some sort of interest: 
http://k7ve.org/blog/2010/06/converting-the-kenwood-tkr-820-to-use-with-d-star/
And also just check this: one  http://www.papasys.com/showthread.php?t=1418


   
> Being taken to court for building your own doesn't sound like a lot of fun to 
> me, although I guess you'd learn a lot about patent law. 

No one yet has been taken to any court but when the time come for someone to 
build any processor with a patent codec without permission 
into a transceiver we will surely hear from the patent owner. My Icom 756 pro 
II is full of microprocessor and i never hear someone asking 
Icom to disclose the coding in those chips.

Now lets ask the real question: What in the world an amateur radio operator can 
be so disturb about a codec up to a point to losing sleep?
I think we are facing here the same argumenting when the CW requirement has 
been waived to be able to obtain an amateur radio licence. The 
last country who adjust his laws regarding DSTAR was France but many never 
change a bit of their laws. If this codec proprietary issue is a 
so great concern in the amateur radio world why any governing and communication 
ruling body never act on this before?

If it's not open for all it's against amateur radio spirit!!! Don't mix open 
communication protocol and proprietary codec. DSTAR is open 
for all the AMBE codec is not eg: AMBE is used in D-STAR amateur radio digital 
voice communications. It has met criticism from amateur 
radio community because the nature of its patent and licensing runs counter to 
the openness of amateur radio, as well as usage restriction 
for being "undisclosed digital code" under FCC rule 97.309(b) and similar 
national legislation .

IMPORTANT WORDS:

 Openness of amateur radio:  Yes DSTAR is an open mode any hams can use it.

 "undisclosed digital code" under FCC rule 97.309(b) and similar national 
legislation: If any enough legal ground ever existed as i said
 surely someone should have been acting on it l

[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay

[Rich/wa4bue]

We have a very conservative school system!

Hope we can get pictures from the ISS.

What are you using to receive the SSTV from the ISS?

- Original Message - 
From: "Gordon JC Pearce" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:32 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay



On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 01:49:39PM -0500, Rich/wa4bue wrote:


This year we will try to introduce ISS data and SSTV to the class.
By the way we can not go SSTV on HF, most of the pictures are not
suitable for the class room.



You know, they're teenagers.  Whether or not you agree with what *some* (a 
small minority) of SSTVers transmit, I think there's a fair chance they've 
seen swimsuit pictures already.


Good luck with getting the ISS to transmit any usable SSTV.  The past few 
times it's all been a bit broken.  Maybe we can devise a nice solid SSTV 
subsystem to take up?


--
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay

[Greg D]

B J wrote:

On 11/13/13, Joe  wrote:

I agree on that also.

Now I'm not picking on them here. But I am a member of Four local
Amateur Radio Clubs. And have been an Amateur since 1975 and have seen
this "Hobby" change a lot through the years. And in all four clubs 90%
of the newly licensed get into this Hobby now, through the Public
service aspect of the hobby. IE: Skywarn, communications during
disasters,  support like in parades etc. While there is nothing wrong
with this. But these newcomers do not seem to get the thrill of just
getting on the air, and throw out a CQ just to see who comes back. Just
for the thrill of the unknown. And that is sad.

I feel that Amateur Radio is more to them as the Service part of the
Amateur Radio Service. Not the experimenting and exploring part.

I often get a similar reaction when I talk about amateur radio,
particularly from younger people.  They can't quite grasp why I'd want
to put together a station and, perhaps, talk with someone when there
are easier ways of doing that.  Even if I don't have any contacts, I
like to find out just what the hardware can do and how far my signal
can go.  It's fun to know that I can reach a satellite that's, say,
somewhere over the Arctic Ocean north of Siberia putting only 5 W into
my Arrow yagi.


Don't give up hope.  Not all of the next generation is a lost cause.

I just got back from the 38th anniversary reunion of the original 
Homebrew Computer Club, a group from the '70's and '80's with similar 
objectives focused on learning, experimentation, and mentoring.  The 
group was formed in 1975, and by a show of hands, the vast majority of 
those attending the sold out event weren't even born yet.  But they were 
there, engaged, excited, and wanting to pick up the torch being 
symbolically passed to them.  "Cool" to them has a lot in common with 
what it is to us - accomplishing something with skills and random parts 
in ways nobody thought possible.


To me (an early member of the club), there's still nothing more amazing 
than being able to stand in the middle of nowhere with my TH-D7, and 
bounce a packet off the International Space Station as it zips by at 
18,000 miles per hour, resulting in a PC elsewhere on the planet "ding" 
with a new bit of email.  Then talking to a (younger) co-worker, as I 
did last week, explaining how I did that, and getting a genuine "wow" in 
reply.


Hang in there.  Initiatives such as what the FunCube team is doing will 
help get the word out, and the awareness up.  And a new generation of 
"Wows" will be inspired.


Greg  KO6TH





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[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay

[B J]

On 11/14/13, Greg D  wrote:



>> I often get a similar reaction when I talk about amateur radio,
>> particularly from younger people.  They can't quite grasp why I'd want
>> to put together a station and, perhaps, talk with someone when there
>> are easier ways of doing that.  Even if I don't have any contacts, I
>> like to find out just what the hardware can do and how far my signal
>> can go.  It's fun to know that I can reach a satellite that's, say,
>> somewhere over the Arctic Ocean north of Siberia putting only 5 W into
>> my Arrow yagi.
>
> Don't give up hope.  Not all of the next generation is a lost cause.

What surprised me was that I got the aforementioned reactions
from--ahem!--engineering students or recent engineering graduates.

When I started my engineering studies 40 years ago, I had been an SWL
for nearly 2 years and had QSLs from a number of foreign stations.
Even then, I knew I wanted to get my callsign some day.

I haven't given up hope.  I'm just saddened that amateur radio is
viewed not as a technical activity that makes use of much of what's
taught in university but more like an eccentricity.

>
> I just got back from the 38th anniversary reunion of the original
> Homebrew Computer Club, a group from the '70's and '80's with similar
> objectives focused on learning, experimentation, and mentoring.  The
> group was formed in 1975, and by a show of hands, the vast majority of
> those attending the sold out event weren't even born yet.  But they were
> there, engaged, excited, and wanting to pick up the torch being
> symbolically passed to them.  "Cool" to them has a lot in common with
> what it is to us - accomplishing something with skills and random parts
> in ways nobody thought possible.

One thing that's often forgotten is that hams were among the earliest
users of personal computers.

>
> To me (an early member of the club), there's still nothing more amazing
> than being able to stand in the middle of nowhere with my TH-D7, and
> bounce a packet off the International Space Station as it zips by at
> 18,000 miles per hour, resulting in a PC elsewhere on the planet "ding"
> with a new bit of email.  Then talking to a (younger) co-worker, as I
> did last week, explaining how I did that, and getting a genuine "wow" in
> reply.
>
> Hang in there.  Initiatives such as what the FunCube team is doing will
> help get the word out, and the awareness up.  And a new generation of
> "Wows" will be inspired.

I still get similar comments from people but it's usually from older adults.

73s

Bernhard VA6BMJ @ DO33FL
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