[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay
On 11/14/13, Greg D ko6th.g...@gmail.com wrote: snip I often get a similar reaction when I talk about amateur radio, particularly from younger people. They can't quite grasp why I'd want to put together a station and, perhaps, talk with someone when there are easier ways of doing that. Even if I don't have any contacts, I like to find out just what the hardware can do and how far my signal can go. It's fun to know that I can reach a satellite that's, say, somewhere over the Arctic Ocean north of Siberia putting only 5 W into my Arrow yagi. Don't give up hope. Not all of the next generation is a lost cause. What surprised me was that I got the aforementioned reactions from--ahem!--engineering students or recent engineering graduates. When I started my engineering studies 40 years ago, I had been an SWL for nearly 2 years and had QSLs from a number of foreign stations. Even then, I knew I wanted to get my callsign some day. I haven't given up hope. I'm just saddened that amateur radio is viewed not as a technical activity that makes use of much of what's taught in university but more like an eccentricity. I just got back from the 38th anniversary reunion of the original Homebrew Computer Club, a group from the '70's and '80's with similar objectives focused on learning, experimentation, and mentoring. The group was formed in 1975, and by a show of hands, the vast majority of those attending the sold out event weren't even born yet. But they were there, engaged, excited, and wanting to pick up the torch being symbolically passed to them. Cool to them has a lot in common with what it is to us - accomplishing something with skills and random parts in ways nobody thought possible. One thing that's often forgotten is that hams were among the earliest users of personal computers. To me (an early member of the club), there's still nothing more amazing than being able to stand in the middle of nowhere with my TH-D7, and bounce a packet off the International Space Station as it zips by at 18,000 miles per hour, resulting in a PC elsewhere on the planet ding with a new bit of email. Then talking to a (younger) co-worker, as I did last week, explaining how I did that, and getting a genuine wow in reply. Hang in there. Initiatives such as what the FunCube team is doing will help get the word out, and the awareness up. And a new generation of Wows will be inspired. I still get similar comments from people but it's usually from older adults. 73s Bernhard VA6BMJ @ DO33FL ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay
I agree on that also. Now I'm not picking on them here. But I am a member of Four local Amateur Radio Clubs. And have been an Amateur since 1975 and have seen this Hobby change a lot through the years. And in all four clubs 90% of the newly licensed get into this Hobby now, through the Public service aspect of the hobby. IE: Skywarn, communications during disasters, support like in parades etc. While there is nothing wrong with this. But these newcomers do not seem to get the thrill of just getting on the air, and throw out a CQ just to see who comes back. Just for the thrill of the unknown. And that is sad. I feel that Amateur Radio is more to them as the Service part of the Amateur Radio Service. Not the experimenting and exploring part. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 11/12/2013 10:34 PM, Donald Jacob wrote: Gordon, If you use that logic, then why use amateur radio at all. Just use your cell phone and you can talk to anyone, anywhere (that will answer!). Hobby, learn, have fun, meet others with the same interests etc Guess something got lost along the way! WB5EKU On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Gordon JC Pearce gordon...@gjcp.netwrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 06:57:39PM +, wa4...@comcast.net wrote: I would like to see the DSTAR users pick a REFLECTOR and use it as a state side intercomm. How cool would that be? Some one asking the group , hey who was that in fm-- or CN--or what was the call of the guy in DN--. Look at how we could all help each other while working the birds. Why not just use your phone? Far more reliable, far better coverage, far better battery life and a tiny fraction of the cost... -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay
On 11/13/13, Joe n...@mwt.net wrote: I agree on that also. Now I'm not picking on them here. But I am a member of Four local Amateur Radio Clubs. And have been an Amateur since 1975 and have seen this Hobby change a lot through the years. And in all four clubs 90% of the newly licensed get into this Hobby now, through the Public service aspect of the hobby. IE: Skywarn, communications during disasters, support like in parades etc. While there is nothing wrong with this. But these newcomers do not seem to get the thrill of just getting on the air, and throw out a CQ just to see who comes back. Just for the thrill of the unknown. And that is sad. I feel that Amateur Radio is more to them as the Service part of the Amateur Radio Service. Not the experimenting and exploring part. I often get a similar reaction when I talk about amateur radio, particularly from younger people. They can't quite grasp why I'd want to put together a station and, perhaps, talk with someone when there are easier ways of doing that. Even if I don't have any contacts, I like to find out just what the hardware can do and how far my signal can go. It's fun to know that I can reach a satellite that's, say, somewhere over the Arctic Ocean north of Siberia putting only 5 W into my Arrow yagi. Many peope, I suppose, have become accustomed to the plug-and-play aspect of electronic devices and expect to have clear 2-way conversations every time. Tinkering with something in order to hear or be heard is likely something they wouldn't like or would be too bothersome to them. Then again, my interest in radio began as an SWL while I was still in high school over 40 years ago and I listened to broadcasts from, as the song says, far away places with strange-sounding names. It was fun bragging to my classmates that I listened to, say, Radio Australia, not that any of them paid much attention to it. 73s Bernhard VA6BMJ@ DO33FL snip ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay
in large manner chat rooms and the like have taken the place for some of the CQ...Robert WB5MZO/S2 Sent from my iPad On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:51 PM, B J va6...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/13/13, Joe n...@mwt.net wrote: I agree on that also. Now I'm not picking on them here. But I am a member of Four local Amateur Radio Clubs. And have been an Amateur since 1975 and have seen this Hobby change a lot through the years. And in all four clubs 90% of the newly licensed get into this Hobby now, through the Public service aspect of the hobby. IE: Skywarn, communications during disasters, support like in parades etc. While there is nothing wrong with this. But these newcomers do not seem to get the thrill of just getting on the air, and throw out a CQ just to see who comes back. Just for the thrill of the unknown. And that is sad. I feel that Amateur Radio is more to them as the Service part of the Amateur Radio Service. Not the experimenting and exploring part. I often get a similar reaction when I talk about amateur radio, particularly from younger people. They can't quite grasp why I'd want to put together a station and, perhaps, talk with someone when there are easier ways of doing that. Even if I don't have any contacts, I like to find out just what the hardware can do and how far my signal can go. It's fun to know that I can reach a satellite that's, say, somewhere over the Arctic Ocean north of Siberia putting only 5 W into my Arrow yagi. Many peope, I suppose, have become accustomed to the plug-and-play aspect of electronic devices and expect to have clear 2-way conversations every time. Tinkering with something in order to hear or be heard is likely something they wouldn't like or would be too bothersome to them. Then again, my interest in radio began as an SWL while I was still in high school over 40 years ago and I listened to broadcasts from, as the song says, far away places with strange-sounding names. It was fun bragging to my classmates that I listened to, say, Radio Australia, not that any of them paid much attention to it. 73s Bernhard VA6BMJ@ DO33FL snip ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay
Hi all, I agree with what is being said. The K4AMG MARC works with you in a VO TECH center Broadcast Radio Class -WFOS FM 88.7, for over 10 years now. You can Google the station 24/7 and listen to live stream. When the students are in class they are on the air. We are also in the early stages of assisting with an electronics class in the Chesapeake, VA Public Schools. We see teens all of the time. Today most of the teens we see kind of know what a screw driver and a pair of pliers are, but never heard of a ratchet and socket. Case in point: Last May we gave the teens assembly instructions and tools so they could assemble our YAGI antennas for OSCAR communications, and install the rotor - in general get the antennas ready for a OSCAR pass. We had to show them how to use the tools! Walk them through each step of the instructions as they texted to their friends this NOVEL experience. You might had heard us on FO 29, W4FOS, the schools club station. We have also worked with BOE BOT robot in the school. It requires moderate assembly. Assembly was a problem for them - programming went fairly well (circles. squares etc). On a good note a few years ago we bought RAMSEY FM Radio receiver kits and as class projects we taught them how to solder and in less then 3 classes 2 hours 6 hours they put the radios together, and with less then,, and hour they used a scope and debugged the one radio that did not work, so they can do hands on when they want to. What I am finding is shops (hand on stuff) is disappearing and to work in trades, the teens are now required to take 2 year JR. College to be certified. Back to class, for many years we have put the students on HF during School Club Roundup, and they get insulted and jammed by older hams that own HF frequencies. We tried to place them on IRLP and around here any way some of the old guys are so bitter they are using bad language and distasteful conversations, not that the teens don't know and use this language, but not in the class room, so we don't go there. Even one of our largest clubs in the area don't want to work with teens. This year we will try to introduce ISS data and SSTV to the class. By the way we can not go SSTV on HF, most of the pictures are not suitable for the class room. In short it is difficult to give teens a full view of amateur radio when some of the idiots on the air and are just that real idiots. This part of the same discussion Ethics on the School Club Roundup users group ... Enough Venting. And finding volunteer Elmers to teach in the class room, very difficult, as most hams of the 80s and beyond know nothing but how to operate their radios, can not even make their antennas. The exception are those wonderful guys that worked in electronics and communications in the service or their day to day work. God Bless them. Our newest and best resource for Elmers are members of the Society of Broadcast Engineers Chapter 54, they have taken time off to teach in the class room. You can check out our home page at K4AMG.org, to get an idea about what we are trying to do. Please give us some input about what you think we are doing right or wrong. God Bless Rich W4BUE - Original Message - From: R Oler orbit...@hotmail.com To: B J va6...@gmail.com Cc: Joe n...@mwt.net; amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:38 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay in large manner chat rooms and the like have taken the place for some of the CQ...Robert WB5MZO/S2 Sent from my iPad On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:51 PM, B J va6...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/13/13, Joe n...@mwt.net wrote: I agree on that also. Now I'm not picking on them here. But I am a member of Four local Amateur Radio Clubs. And have been an Amateur since 1975 and have seen this Hobby change a lot through the years. And in all four clubs 90% of the newly licensed get into this Hobby now, through the Public service aspect of the hobby. IE: Skywarn, communications during disasters, support like in parades etc. While there is nothing wrong with this. But these newcomers do not seem to get the thrill of just getting on the air, and throw out a CQ just to see who comes back. Just for the thrill of the unknown. And that is sad. I feel that Amateur Radio is more to them as the Service part of the Amateur Radio Service. Not the experimenting and exploring part. I often get a similar reaction when I talk about amateur radio, particularly from younger people. They can't quite grasp why I'd want to put together a station and, perhaps, talk with someone when there are easier ways of doing that. Even if I don't have any contacts, I like to find out just what the hardware can do and how far my signal can go. It's fun to know that I can reach a satellite that's, say, somewhere over the Arctic Ocean north of Siberia putting only 5 W into my Arrow yagi. Many peope, I suppose, have become accustomed
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 01:49:39PM -0500, Rich/wa4bue wrote: This year we will try to introduce ISS data and SSTV to the class. By the way we can not go SSTV on HF, most of the pictures are not suitable for the class room. You know, they're teenagers. Whether or not you agree with what *some* (a small minority) of SSTVers transmit, I think there's a fair chance they've seen swimsuit pictures already. Good luck with getting the ISS to transmit any usable SSTV. The past few times it's all been a bit broken. Maybe we can devise a nice solid SSTV subsystem to take up? -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay
Hi Gordon I give you my answers in your text. Okay, sell it to me. What do you learn from DStar? A lot: A new communication digital protocol who make me contact the world while driving my car and sending my GPS position (DGPRS) at the same time like you do with APRS we both take a learning curve at the beginning but DSTAR give you an always 100% interference/noise free audio always within RF signal path limitation who can be overcome in part by using more than 10 watts of output power. If a power limitation can be a limiting factor for you due to the foundation licence this will give you the an incentive to get the Intermediate Licence or the Advanced Licence to overcome any limiting power issues. If you already get your advance licence you are probably aware how effective a DSTAR signal is compare to an analog signal but even with 10 watts you are about 30KM from MB6ICS C DSTAR repeater and power should not be an issue for you. Here is a video testing FM versus D-STAR in weak signal path. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyYhLtS-0gE Aside of giving an incentive to discover some other side of amateur radio like HF SSB transmission DSTAR can now be used on HF as many other digital mode even on satellite you can just hear my first ever recorded DSTAR transmission on AO-27 on my web page www.qsl.net/ve2dwe. The programming of a DSTAR radio is quite challendging but it is fascinating how a digital encoding can make your signal travel all over the world as an APRS signal do. It's not much different than programming an aprs header but it gives you the possibility to some sort of selective calling when you program your other station call sign letter lets say in Australia and the Gateway system lets you contact him instantanly with the same audio quality as a local station. In an emergency situation the chat option is a very powerfull tool just see this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v--nSTCSO64 And some more info's regarding an emergency DSTAR station http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8dUJp0rc0g What's so fun about it? As far as I can see, it's a sealed box with no real opportunity to experiment. On this question i will anwer you first the reverse way eg: by a question. Show and tell me in any modern type of transceiver how you experiment and what you do for experimenting. In my own case i sometimes open the casing for some very minor mods and all stops there. BTW the DSTAR boxes are no more sealed than any other type of transceiver? I still don't get your point here? And please defined what you find fun for you in Ham Radio? HF qso's? Satellite QSO's? VHF/UHF direct contact? Repeater rag chew? probably something else? Is it possible someone only simply wants to talk on his sealed box? Do you talk in your analog FM transceiver? or on your HF radio in ssb or CW? Do you have fun doing that? Could be this link can be of some sort of interest: http://k7ve.org/blog/2010/06/converting-the-kenwood-tkr-820-to-use-with-d-star/ And also just check this: one http://www.papasys.com/showthread.php?t=1418 Being taken to court for building your own doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me, although I guess you'd learn a lot about patent law. No one yet has been taken to any court but when the time come for someone to build any processor with a patent codec without permission into a transceiver we will surely hear from the patent owner. My Icom 756 pro II is full of microprocessor and i never hear someone asking Icom to disclose the coding in those chips. Now lets ask the real question: What in the world an amateur radio operator can be so disturb about a codec up to a point to losing sleep? I think we are facing here the same argumenting when the CW requirement has been waived to be able to obtain an amateur radio licence. The last country who adjust his laws regarding DSTAR was France but many never change a bit of their laws. If this codec proprietary issue is a so great concern in the amateur radio world why any governing and communication ruling body never act on this before? If it's not open for all it's against amateur radio spirit!!! Don't mix open communication protocol and proprietary codec. DSTAR is open for all the AMBE codec is not eg: AMBE is used in D-STAR amateur radio digital voice communications. It has met criticism from amateur radio community because the nature of its patent and licensing runs counter to the openness of amateur radio, as well as usage restriction for being undisclosed digital code under FCC rule 97.309(b) and similar national legislation . IMPORTANT WORDS: Openness of amateur radio: Yes DSTAR is an open mode any hams can use it. undisclosed digital code under FCC rule 97.309(b) and similar national legislation: If any enough legal ground ever existed as i said surely someone should have been acting on it long time
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay
We have a very conservative school system! Hope we can get pictures from the ISS. What are you using to receive the SSTV from the ISS? - Original Message - From: Gordon JC Pearce gordon...@gjcp.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:32 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 01:49:39PM -0500, Rich/wa4bue wrote: This year we will try to introduce ISS data and SSTV to the class. By the way we can not go SSTV on HF, most of the pictures are not suitable for the class room. You know, they're teenagers. Whether or not you agree with what *some* (a small minority) of SSTVers transmit, I think there's a fair chance they've seen swimsuit pictures already. Good luck with getting the ISS to transmit any usable SSTV. The past few times it's all been a bit broken. Maybe we can devise a nice solid SSTV subsystem to take up? -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay
B J wrote: On 11/13/13, Joen...@mwt.net wrote: I agree on that also. Now I'm not picking on them here. But I am a member of Four local Amateur Radio Clubs. And have been an Amateur since 1975 and have seen this Hobby change a lot through the years. And in all four clubs 90% of the newly licensed get into this Hobby now, through the Public service aspect of the hobby. IE: Skywarn, communications during disasters, support like in parades etc. While there is nothing wrong with this. But these newcomers do not seem to get the thrill of just getting on the air, and throw out a CQ just to see who comes back. Just for the thrill of the unknown. And that is sad. I feel that Amateur Radio is more to them as the Service part of the Amateur Radio Service. Not the experimenting and exploring part. I often get a similar reaction when I talk about amateur radio, particularly from younger people. They can't quite grasp why I'd want to put together a station and, perhaps, talk with someone when there are easier ways of doing that. Even if I don't have any contacts, I like to find out just what the hardware can do and how far my signal can go. It's fun to know that I can reach a satellite that's, say, somewhere over the Arctic Ocean north of Siberia putting only 5 W into my Arrow yagi. Don't give up hope. Not all of the next generation is a lost cause. I just got back from the 38th anniversary reunion of the original Homebrew Computer Club, a group from the '70's and '80's with similar objectives focused on learning, experimentation, and mentoring. The group was formed in 1975, and by a show of hands, the vast majority of those attending the sold out event weren't even born yet. But they were there, engaged, excited, and wanting to pick up the torch being symbolically passed to them. Cool to them has a lot in common with what it is to us - accomplishing something with skills and random parts in ways nobody thought possible. To me (an early member of the club), there's still nothing more amazing than being able to stand in the middle of nowhere with my TH-D7, and bounce a packet off the International Space Station as it zips by at 18,000 miles per hour, resulting in a PC elsewhere on the planet ding with a new bit of email. Then talking to a (younger) co-worker, as I did last week, explaining how I did that, and getting a genuine wow in reply. Hang in there. Initiatives such as what the FunCube team is doing will help get the word out, and the awareness up. And a new generation of Wows will be inspired. Greg KO6TH ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 06:57:39PM +, wa4...@comcast.net wrote: I would like to see the DSTAR users pick a REFLECTOR and use it as a state side intercomm. How cool would that be? Some one asking the group , hey who was that in fm-- or CN--or what was the call of the guy in DN--. Look at how we could all help each other while working the birds. Why not just use your phone? Far more reliable, far better coverage, far better battery life and a tiny fraction of the cost... -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay
Gordon, If you use that logic, then why use amateur radio at all. Just use your cell phone and you can talk to anyone, anywhere (that will answer!). Hobby, learn, have fun, meet others with the same interests etc Guess something got lost along the way! WB5EKU On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Gordon JC Pearce gordon...@gjcp.netwrote: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 06:57:39PM +, wa4...@comcast.net wrote: I would like to see the DSTAR users pick a REFLECTOR and use it as a state side intercomm. How cool would that be? Some one asking the group , hey who was that in fm-- or CN--or what was the call of the guy in DN--. Look at how we could all help each other while working the birds. Why not just use your phone? Far more reliable, far better coverage, far better battery life and a tiny fraction of the cost... -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: D STAR is here to stay
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 08:34:29PM -0800, Donald Jacob wrote: Gordon, If you use that logic, then why use amateur radio at all. Just use your cell phone and you can talk to anyone, anywhere (that will answer!). Hobby, learn, have fun, meet others with the same interests etc Guess something got lost along the way! Most of the time if I just want to talk to somebody, that's what I'd do. In an emergency I'd rely on my mobile phone rather than someone's lash-up of consumer-grade networking equipment and dangly wires hooked up to the latest and greatest digital toy. Okay, sell it to me. What do you learn from DStar? What's so fun about it? As far as I can see, it's a sealed box with no real opportunity to experiment. Being taken to court for building your own doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me, although I guess you'd learn a lot about patent law. -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
