[amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
At 02:42 PM 1/6/2012, Clayton Coleman W5PFG wrote: Have you thought about upgrading your station to full-duplex capability? I started out using full duplex, and it's a much nicer experience. I'd recommend it for every satellite operator. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
I recall the fun part of full duplex on AO-40 (sobsob) was there was a significant delay with the returned signal and you started talking a little weird if you didn't turn down the volume a bit. Mayabe again someday. My satpc prog ram it totally messed up. 73 Bob W7LRD - Original Message - From: Tony Langdon vk3...@gmail.com To: Clayton Coleman W5PFG kayakfis...@gmail.com, AMSAT amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2012 11:43:20 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! At 02:42 PM 1/6/2012, Clayton Coleman W5PFG wrote: Have you thought about upgrading your station to full-duplex capability? I started out using full duplex, and it's a much nicer experience. I'd recommend it for every satellite operator. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
Hi Clayton, W5PFG You have reinvented the wheel ! Since 1972 i.e. 40 years ago beginning with OSCAR-6 all of us we were using full-duplex capability because in the last century to call a CW or SSB CQ without hearin your self and than try to receice for a possible answere from someone it was considered a crazy procedure. Full-duplex CW and SSB continued from OSCAR-6 to all linear satellites up to AO40 but unfortunately it stopped beginning with the FM single channel satellites. If you actually suggest to enhance the easy FM sat experience using full-duplex probably the answere will be that it is too complicated and too costly. 73 de i8CVS Domenico - Original Message - From: Clayton Coleman W5PFG kayakfis...@gmail.com To: AMSAT amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:42 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! Have you thought about upgrading your station to full-duplex capability? I realize that many amateurs jump into the satellite fray by utilizing an existing handheld radio and an antenna like the Arrow, Elk, or tape-measure beam. It's a great way to get your feet wet and make that first contact via the birds. Now, let's look at how we can do BETTER. Full-duplex has a very important purpose in the satellite world. It allows you, the ground station, to know that your signal is being received and retransmitted by the satellite. I’m not saying it is a mandatory but once you see its benefit, you may never want to go “semi” again. How do you really know you are being heard by the bird if you can't hear yourself? Answer: You don't. How do you know another station wasn't already being captured by the bird and in the middle of a QSO when you transmit? Answer: You don't. Let's talk about HOW to do full-duplex. First of all, you don't need base-station radios like the Icom IC-9100, IC-910, Kenwood TS-2000, or Yaesu FT-847. If you own two handhelds, chances are you have what you need! What you need is at least one radio capable of transmitting on the uplink and one radio capable of receiving on the downlink. For example using AO-27: 1. A 2m-only HT, set to the satellite's uplink, ~145.85 MHz. 2. A 70cm-only HT, set to the satellite's downlink, ~436.795 MHz. One added benefit is that while hearing the downlink, you can twist your handheld antennas (like the Arrow) to match polarity and peak your uplink. Technically you do not even need a radio capable of transmitting to hear yourself on the downlink. A scanner or pocket receiver works dandy! To get into full-duplex inexpensively, there are numerous options. You can buy a NEW Baeofeng UV-3R for about $50-60 USD, shipped. This radio could serve as an uplink or downlink radio, depending on your need. I’m not peddling these radios but using them as an example. If you have the Arrow with the built-in diplexer, simply bypass it by running a patch cord from each radio to the respective UHF and VHF beams. If you are running an Elk or tape-measure 2m beam, you will need an inexpensive diplexer to give you both 2m and 70cm feed points. One can be constructed easily or purchased from numerous vendors for $30-80. Give full-duplex a try. You will not only help the satellite community by eliminating unnecessary hetero-dyning tug-of-war, it will generally make you sound better on the birds! Oh, and use a pair of earphones or a headset when you give it a try to avoid feedback. 73, Clayton W5PFG Here are some more example full-duplex combinations: Wouxon HT - Downlink 2m only-HT - Uplink FT-60R - Uplink Baofeng - Downlink Handheld scanner - Downlink Dual-band HT - Uplink ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
You omitted all of the other full duplex radios: The D7 and D72 HT's and D700 and D710 mobiles. Full-duplex has a very important purpose in the satellite world. you don't need base-station radios like the Icom IC-9100, IC-910, Kenwood TS-2000, or Yaesu FT-847. If you own two handhelds, chances are you have what you need! There are 10's of thousands of these Kenwood radios out there, and many people upgraded from the D7 and D700 to the D72 and D710 for the enhanced APRS functions. But the full duplex dual band radios remain the best there is for full duplex FM satellite AND APRS satellite work. Bob, WB4APR ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
Yes, Bob, I see those old D700 at hamfests regularly. Add to the list of full-duplex HTs the Yaesu FT-51R. I bought mine on ebay years ago for way less than it costs to go to a Texans game. I did a quick check and found one for sale: http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAESU-FT-51R-2M-440MHZ-PAGING-TRANCEIVER-PORTABLE-4-MIKES-2-CHARGERS-MANUAL-/110802350647?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item19cc55b237 An old HT almost always needs a new aftermarket battery (or two) if you plan on actually using it handheld. 73, Jerry, K5OE You omitted all of the other full duplex radios: The D7 and D72 HT's and D700 and D710 mobiles. Full-duplex has a very important purpose in the satellite world. you don't need base-station radios like the Icom IC-9100, IC-910, Kenwood TS-2000, or Yaesu FT-847. If you own two handhelds, chances are you have what you need! There are 10's of thousands of these Kenwood radios out there, and many people upgraded from the D7 and D700 to the D72 and D710 for the enhanced APRS functions. But the full duplex dual band radios remain the best there is for full duplex FM satellite AND APRS satellite work. Bob, WB4APR ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
If it hasn't been mentioned, the Kenwood TM-V7A, the starting point of all the D7XX family, also works well on full duplex. I have had a few Mobil QSOs using a poor, for satellite ops, antenna. The only problem is that the original display tends to fade and develop lines, which eventually render it unusable. At one point, Kenwood fixed them free, and the replacement in mine is still excellent after 10 years. 73s, Alan WA4SCA ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
And please use full doppler correction. I always have to follow the other station going higher in frequency and than come in the middle of someone elses qso. 73, Eric. Amateur Radio Station ON4HF Eric Knaps Satellite manager UBA http://www.on4hf.be Op 06/01/2012 13:56, i8cvs schreef: Hi Clayton, W5PFG You have reinvented the wheel ! Since 1972 i.e. 40 years ago beginning with OSCAR-6 all of us we were using full-duplex capability because in the last century to call a CW or SSB CQ without hearin your self and than try to receice for a possible answere from someone it was considered a crazy procedure. Full-duplex CW and SSB continued from OSCAR-6 to all linear satellites up to AO40 but unfortunately it stopped beginning with the FM single channel satellites. If you actually suggest to enhance the easy FM sat experience using full-duplex probably the answere will be that it is too complicated and too costly. 73 de i8CVS Domenico - Original Message - From: Clayton Coleman W5PFGkayakfis...@gmail.com To: AMSATamsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:42 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! Have you thought about upgrading your station to full-duplex capability? I realize that many amateurs jump into the satellite fray by utilizing an existing handheld radio and an antenna like the Arrow, Elk, or tape-measure beam. It's a great way to get your feet wet and make that first contact via the birds. Now, let's look at how we can do BETTER. Full-duplex has a very important purpose in the satellite world. It allows you, the ground station, to know that your signal is being received and retransmitted by the satellite. I’m not saying it is a mandatory but once you see its benefit, you may never want to go “semi” again. How do you really know you are being heard by the bird if you can't hear yourself? Answer: You don't. How do you know another station wasn't already being captured by the bird and in the middle of a QSO when you transmit? Answer: You don't. Let's talk about HOW to do full-duplex. First of all, you don't need base-station radios like the Icom IC-9100, IC-910, Kenwood TS-2000, or Yaesu FT-847. If you own two handhelds, chances are you have what you need! What you need is at least one radio capable of transmitting on the uplink and one radio capable of receiving on the downlink. For example using AO-27: 1. A 2m-only HT, set to the satellite's uplink, ~145.85 MHz. 2. A 70cm-only HT, set to the satellite's downlink, ~436.795 MHz. One added benefit is that while hearing the downlink, you can twist your handheld antennas (like the Arrow) to match polarity and peak your uplink. Technically you do not even need a radio capable of transmitting to hear yourself on the downlink. A scanner or pocket receiver works dandy! To get into full-duplex inexpensively, there are numerous options. You can buy a NEW Baeofeng UV-3R for about $50-60 USD, shipped. This radio could serve as an uplink or downlink radio, depending on your need. I’m not peddling these radios but using them as an example. If you have the Arrow with the built-in diplexer, simply bypass it by running a patch cord from each radio to the respective UHF and VHF beams. If you are running an Elk or tape-measure 2m beam, you will need an inexpensive diplexer to give you both 2m and 70cm feed points. One can be constructed easily or purchased from numerous vendors for $30-80. Give full-duplex a try. You will not only help the satellite community by eliminating unnecessary hetero-dyning tug-of-war, it will generally make you sound better on the birds! Oh, and use a pair of earphones or a headset when you give it a try to avoid feedback. 73, Clayton W5PFG Here are some more example full-duplex combinations: Wouxon HT - Downlink 2m only-HT - Uplink FT-60R - Uplink Baofeng - Downlink Handheld scanner - Downlink Dual-band HT - Uplink ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
The only addition to your list is a receive preamp if you're running full duplex. Norm, I completely agree. I hang a ARR 432 pre-amp with it's own small 12v pack between the diplexor and the 432 side of the Arrow. I have an RF switched version just in case I do something stupid with the FT-530. I use a headset so there is no audio feedback/echo. Makes all the difference on low passes (5) and less than optimal locations. Bill W1PA ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
And the V7A has an excellent receiver in it! QST measured it as more sensitive on UHF than most dualbanders. I miss the one I had, and wouldn't mind finding another. 73s John AA5JG - Original Message - From: Alan P. Biddle apbid...@united.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 2:16 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! If it hasn't been mentioned, the Kenwood TM-V7A, the starting point of all the D7XX family, also works well on full duplex. I have had a few Mobil QSOs using a poor, for satellite ops, antenna. The only problem is that the original display tends to fade and develop lines, which eventually render it unusable. At one point, Kenwood fixed them free, and the replacement in mine is still excellent after 10 years. 73s, Alan WA4SCA ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
I have made 1000+ contacts via satellites using a TM-D700 and TM-D710. The receive is excellent. Without a preamp, I can work any of the current FM birds from AOS to LOS. I'm always on the lookout for deals on used ones locally. I actually prefer the 700 for portable since I can run a serial cable right to the front of the radio to interface with UISS on my laptop. 73 Clayton W5PFG Sent from my mobile phone. On Jan 6, 2012, at 7:10, Bob Bruninga bruni...@usna.edu wrote: There are 10's of thousands of these Kenwood radios out there, and many people upgraded from the D7 and D700 to the D72 and D710 for the enhanced APRS functions. But the full duplex dual band radios remain the best there is for full duplex FM satellite AND APRS satellite work. Bob, WB4APR ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
There used to be a list of full duplex radios at http://thathamkid.com/fd_radios.html But that web seems to be dead. Many of the full duplex handhelds can be had for little more than a song on eBay. 73, Joe kk0sd -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Clayton Coleman W5PFG Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 9:43 PM To: AMSAT Subject: [amsat-bb] Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! Have you thought about upgrading your station to full-duplex capability? I realize that many amateurs jump into the satellite fray by utilizing an existing handheld radio and an antenna like the Arrow, Elk, or tape-measure beam. It's a great way to get your feet wet and make that first contact via the birds. Now, let's look at how we can do BETTER. Full-duplex has a very important purpose in the satellite world. It allows you, the ground station, to know that your signal is being received and retransmitted by the satellite. I'm not saying it is a mandatory but once you see its benefit, you may never want to go semi again. How do you really know you are being heard by the bird if you can't hear yourself? Answer: You don't. How do you know another station wasn't already being captured by the bird and in the middle of a QSO when you transmit? Answer: You don't. Let's talk about HOW to do full-duplex. First of all, you don't need base-station radios like the Icom IC-9100, IC-910, Kenwood TS-2000, or Yaesu FT-847. If you own two handhelds, chances are you have what you need! What you need is at least one radio capable of transmitting on the uplink and one radio capable of receiving on the downlink. For example using AO-27: 1. A 2m-only HT, set to the satellite's uplink, ~145.85 MHz. 2. A 70cm-only HT, set to the satellite's downlink, ~436.795 MHz. One added benefit is that while hearing the downlink, you can twist your handheld antennas (like the Arrow) to match polarity and peak your uplink. Technically you do not even need a radio capable of transmitting to hear yourself on the downlink. A scanner or pocket receiver works dandy! To get into full-duplex inexpensively, there are numerous options. You can buy a NEW Baeofeng UV-3R for about $50-60 USD, shipped. This radio could serve as an uplink or downlink radio, depending on your need. I'm not peddling these radios but using them as an example. If you have the Arrow with the built-in diplexer, simply bypass it by running a patch cord from each radio to the respective UHF and VHF beams. If you are running an Elk or tape-measure 2m beam, you will need an inexpensive diplexer to give you both 2m and 70cm feed points. One can be constructed easily or purchased from numerous vendors for $30-80. Give full-duplex a try. You will not only help the satellite community by eliminating unnecessary hetero-dyning tug-of-war, it will generally make you sound better on the birds! Oh, and use a pair of earphones or a headset when you give it a try to avoid feedback. 73, Clayton W5PFG Here are some more example full-duplex combinations: Wouxon HT - Downlink 2m only-HT - Uplink FT-60R - Uplink Baofeng - Downlink Handheld scanner - Downlink Dual-band HT - Uplink ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
There was a FT530 going for $50 today on QRZ.COM. That is one of the best full duplex HTs made. . You can usually find a W32A for $150 or so also. I have also seen lots of Alinco DJ-580s recently for good prices as well. 73s John AA5JG - Original Message - From: Gary Joe Mayfield gary_mayfi...@hotmail.com To: 'AMSAT' amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 5:28 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! There used to be a list of full duplex radios at http://thathamkid.com/fd_radios.html But that web seems to be dead. Many of the full duplex handhelds can be had for little more than a song on eBay. 73, Joe kk0sd -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Clayton Coleman W5PFG Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 9:43 PM To: AMSAT Subject: [amsat-bb] Enhance your Easy Sat Experience! Have you thought about upgrading your station to full-duplex capability? I realize that many amateurs jump into the satellite fray by utilizing an existing handheld radio and an antenna like the Arrow, Elk, or tape-measure beam. It's a great way to get your feet wet and make that first contact via the birds. Now, let's look at how we can do BETTER. Full-duplex has a very important purpose in the satellite world. It allows you, the ground station, to know that your signal is being received and retransmitted by the satellite. I'm not saying it is a mandatory but once you see its benefit, you may never want to go semi again. How do you really know you are being heard by the bird if you can't hear yourself? Answer: You don't. How do you know another station wasn't already being captured by the bird and in the middle of a QSO when you transmit? Answer: You don't. Let's talk about HOW to do full-duplex. First of all, you don't need base-station radios like the Icom IC-9100, IC-910, Kenwood TS-2000, or Yaesu FT-847. If you own two handhelds, chances are you have what you need! What you need is at least one radio capable of transmitting on the uplink and one radio capable of receiving on the downlink. For example using AO-27: 1. A 2m-only HT, set to the satellite's uplink, ~145.85 MHz. 2. A 70cm-only HT, set to the satellite's downlink, ~436.795 MHz. One added benefit is that while hearing the downlink, you can twist your handheld antennas (like the Arrow) to match polarity and peak your uplink. Technically you do not even need a radio capable of transmitting to hear yourself on the downlink. A scanner or pocket receiver works dandy! To get into full-duplex inexpensively, there are numerous options. You can buy a NEW Baeofeng UV-3R for about $50-60 USD, shipped. This radio could serve as an uplink or downlink radio, depending on your need. I'm not peddling these radios but using them as an example. If you have the Arrow with the built-in diplexer, simply bypass it by running a patch cord from each radio to the respective UHF and VHF beams. If you are running an Elk or tape-measure 2m beam, you will need an inexpensive diplexer to give you both 2m and 70cm feed points. One can be constructed easily or purchased from numerous vendors for $30-80. Give full-duplex a try. You will not only help the satellite community by eliminating unnecessary hetero-dyning tug-of-war, it will generally make you sound better on the birds! Oh, and use a pair of earphones or a headset when you give it a try to avoid feedback. 73, Clayton W5PFG Here are some more example full-duplex combinations: Wouxon HT - Downlink 2m only-HT - Uplink FT-60R - Uplink Baofeng - Downlink Handheld scanner - Downlink Dual-band HT - Uplink ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Enhance your Easy Sat Experience!
The only addition to your list is a receive preamp if you're running full duplex. Kit I use is $45 from DEMI BUT it's all smd plus tuning. Best thing I've ever done for my receive side, though. 73 de Norm ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
