[amsat-bb] Re: Filters and Preamps Question
Thanks for all the great responses. I'll try switching them around and see how it affects performance. Although I'm in Kansas City, RF pollution is not too bad at my particular location. One benefit of the filters is reduction of desensing the receiver when xmitting, especially with preamps on. 73, Elan WB2IOL ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Filters and Preamps Question
- Original Message - From: "Joe Fitzgerald" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:33 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Filters and Preamps Question > > > what's the preferred > > order? > > As ever "that depends". In the specific case I was involved in at > Worcester Polytech, we found that we could get the best trade off by > putting the preamp at the antenna then knocking down the out of band stuff > with the filter between the preamp and the receiver. The losses in the > filter hurt your system noise figure much more if you go ant -> filter -> > preamp -> receiver > > If the out of band stuff is desensing your preamp, well, that is another > story. At +12 dBm for the ARR GaAs FET we were using there was no > problem, even in an urban environment. > > -Joe KM1P > Hi Joe, KM1P You are right and in fact: It is a common EME procedure to put a passband cavity filter or an interdigital passband filter at the output of the antenna mounted low noise preamplifier because the insertion loss of it in dB decreases only the gain of the preamplifier by the same amount in dB so that the Noise Figure of the preamplifier is not degraded by the insertion loss of the filter. In this configuration we have --> antenna --->a T/R coax relay> preamplifier >cavity filter all antenna mounted and a coax cable connected to the output of the preamplifier devoted only to receive and directly going down the shack -->to the receiver. In more details the antenna is connected to the common port of the T/R coax relay while the preamplifier is connected to the normally closed NC contact of the T/R relay In order to transmit the TX power amplifier is connected directly to another coax cable dedicated only to transmit and it is connected at the antenna via the normally open NO contact of the T/R relay. The above configuration using a filter at the output of a preamplifier is the best one because it do not degrade the preamplifier Noise Figure but reduces the bandwidth providing a bonus in selectivity. It is possible to improve the above configuration introducing between the antenna and input of the preamplifier a filter plus a preamplifier protection device designed by K3PGP showing a very low insertion loss less than 0.1 dB at 432 MHz that without to deteriorate the preamplifier Noise Figure provides in addition another bonus of selectivity at the preamplifier input as you can realize reading the following page: http://www.k3pgp.org/432filter.htm >From 1977 I was a 432 MHz EME operator so that I actually use for satellite the above discussed setup both for 2 meters and 70 cm because I live in the center of the gulf on Naples with a terrific RF pollution in every amateur and out of amateur band so that a filter at the preamplifier input and output is also mandatory to reduce the preamplifiers gain compression due of out of band strong nearby signals. It is evident that using a filter at the output of a preamplifier it becames a complicated matter using a commercial preamplifier with two coax relays into it and by using only one transmission line to receive and to transmit because the preamplifier output filter must be a big one to pass all the transmitter power and particularly it must be tuned in such a way as not to introduce a high VSWR into the TX transmission line. Best 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Filters and Preamps Question
And I've been on the other side of things where the "noise" we had to filter out was so close to the signal we wanted, we had no choice but to put a tight bandpass filter at the antenna, ahead of the amp, to keep the amp from overloading. 6 of one...half a dozen of the other 73, jim KQ6EA --- On Mon, 10/19/09, Joe Fitzgerald wrote: > From: Joe Fitzgerald > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Filters and Preamps Question > To: > Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org > Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 4:33 PM > > > > what's the preferred > > order? > > As ever "that depends". In the specific case I was > involved in at > Worcester Polytech, we found that we could get the best > trade off by > putting the preamp at the antenna then knocking down the > out of band stuff > with the filter between the preamp and the > receiver. The losses in the > filter hurt your system noise figure much more if you go > ant -> filter -> > preamp -> receiver > > If the out of band stuff is desensing your preamp, well, > that is another > story. At +12 dBm for the ARR GaAs FET we were using > there was no > problem, even in an urban environment. > > > -Joe KM1P > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur > satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Filters and Preamps Question
> what's the preferred > order? As ever "that depends". In the specific case I was involved in at Worcester Polytech, we found that we could get the best trade off by putting the preamp at the antenna then knocking down the out of band stuff with the filter between the preamp and the receiver. The losses in the filter hurt your system noise figure much more if you go ant -> filter -> preamp -> receiver If the out of band stuff is desensing your preamp, well, that is another story. At +12 dBm for the ARR GaAs FET we were using there was no problem, even in an urban environment. -Joe KM1P ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
