[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Ben Jackson)
At 11:50 AM 6/11/2009, Ben Jackson wrote: >-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >Hash: SHA1 > >Clint Bradford wrote: > > > ... Also check out the Motorola JT1000 ... > > > > > > Sure ... Let's discuss a fifteen-year-old HT that has long been > > discontinued by Motorola > >So, that proves that front-panel programmable commercial radios have >been approved by the FCC for at least 15 years. > > >- -- >Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA >bbj innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/ A point missed about programable commercial radio equipment is that this was allowed as an "experiment" by the FCC and approval for their manufacture was recinded after a short trial use period. Non-technically trained operators could and did program their radios to operate on top of licensed services such as public safety with severe results. Lets define programable while were at this. It does not mean a radio that can be changed in frequency to predetermined frequencies. Marine (part-80) radios are pre-programmed with a standard set of channels established for the marine community. Aviation radios can dial in any frequency in 5-KHz steps within the aviation band. But both of these services have been set up by the "authorities" governing them to use certain frequencies within a reserved sub-band. A programable radio can be set to any frequency that the radio can operate. Commercial Hi-band VHF: 150-174 MHz. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Ben Jackson)
Hello to all I am the one who originally posted this subject on this BBS I just posted it to give a little head scratching,and by the look of it I have done more then that. I apologize to anyone who is upset with this,I meant no harm. I really enjoy using this BBS and I have learned allot from it and I really hope I did not abuse the board Sorry if I caused any harm or subject way off topic of this board. Thanks To All Howard VE4ISP - Original Message - From: "Ben Jackson" To: "Clint Bradford" Cc: Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Ben Jackson) > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Clint Bradford wrote: >> > ... Also check out the Motorola JT1000 ... >> >> >> Sure ... Let's discuss a fifteen-year-old HT that has long been >> discontinued by Motorola > > So, that proves that front-panel programmable commercial radios have > been approved by the FCC for at least 15 years. > > > - -- > Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA > bbj innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/ > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iQEVAwUBSjFf8AQiWVsfSvVvAQJGJAf/XIQyMPaDf8F/X8Og6OwH+1nJUrcaXXp8 > U9Ptlukn7aDhgpfwmnjFjxOvXS0CYofSiWXTnPl9ELfK3MVnEeT3d85VAe40+wvu > ZG8qIjya2CxuUhC7ZyyWfbmgQcvNH4fDzoHsBrHPd2et1KAz605vgdLOcekxJBMg > C5Sa2ltZZNyvRtYb7KOviVm1sDW9c5ef/esP2fVg5SWVpGophTfP3L0q2mshHMoO > OWndhPTmlLXA0NTyenpSKF7Ap0VQ5CLGItZUHREf6xpv2McOZ66W3B/g71wQg+lX > MlbHS0f5nxCJArroLagxY/gaYMnVxF/x5otVWQna6Z7PZGhAiOSlYQ== > =CTHW > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Ben Jackson)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Clint Bradford wrote: > > ... Also check out the Motorola JT1000 ... > > > Sure ... Let's discuss a fifteen-year-old HT that has long been > discontinued by Motorola So, that proves that front-panel programmable commercial radios have been approved by the FCC for at least 15 years. - -- Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA bbj innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBSjFf8AQiWVsfSvVvAQJGJAf/XIQyMPaDf8F/X8Og6OwH+1nJUrcaXXp8 U9Ptlukn7aDhgpfwmnjFjxOvXS0CYofSiWXTnPl9ELfK3MVnEeT3d85VAe40+wvu ZG8qIjya2CxuUhC7ZyyWfbmgQcvNH4fDzoHsBrHPd2et1KAz605vgdLOcekxJBMg C5Sa2ltZZNyvRtYb7KOviVm1sDW9c5ef/esP2fVg5SWVpGophTfP3L0q2mshHMoO OWndhPTmlLXA0NTyenpSKF7Ap0VQ5CLGItZUHREf6xpv2McOZ66W3B/g71wQg+lX MlbHS0f5nxCJArroLagxY/gaYMnVxF/x5otVWQna6Z7PZGhAiOSlYQ== =CTHW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Ben Jackson)
> ... Also check out the Motorola JT1000 ... Sure ... Let's discuss a fifteen-year-old HT that has long been discontinued by Motorola Clint Bradford ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark Spencer wrote: > I seem to have learnt something new today. I didn't think that > "front pannel programmable" radios that were frequency agile could > get an FCC approval (for Part 90 or other non ham use) these days. > I also looked up the FCC ID on the FCC web site and found a copy of > the manual that seems to confirm front pannel programability. > Also check out the Motorola JT1000 - -- Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA bbj innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBSjEjdgQiWVsfSvVvAQJOkQf+JpD7OPB/R+/ITq6iQSLGwdsC9/W3KjAF ldKZAHMYSJLtTWWBe7dMesWNCIH5drAgz4w70D+TdegdbueM30hXj15tVPP7yefz cvQ3zVirjrwfEUaN1qvno8MDafdbJ32yBfdtxlZpIg8bi4KQ5mwE4faWnfw4PZ9s SAlu+RXuK+xuq01tJ3RpEhypqK0XqdFEolHoUc1EQsfKfaHodYvZ07DNzo71tgP4 klhQKxu4SKSc9IIhPe/4RuSimKSa3Ohvc8jTgOCY5xwiE9lh5pABVGB5VDZyENNN NjX0wFDD7X5zLiOw6dCovY0QPM53Lt9Ar9qgNvYywS2p7Uke/9j19Q== =26y0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's
Thanks. And of course aviation and some marine radios have various degrees of frequency agility, still I was under the apparently mistaken impression that user accessible front pannel programabiltiy was frowned upon in the land mobile bands in the USA. I'll have to see if they have also gotten a Canadian certification as I have a liscence for a comercial VHF frequency in Canada (: Regards Mark Spencer VE7AFZ - Original Message From: Ben Jackson To: Mark Spencer Cc: Kauto Huopio OH2LFM ; amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:32:06 AM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark Spencer wrote: > I seem to have learnt something new today. I didn't think that > "front pannel programmable" radios that were frequency agile could > get an FCC approval (for Part 90 or other non ham use) these days. > I also looked up the FCC ID on the FCC web site and found a copy of > the manual that seems to confirm front pannel programability. > Also check out the Motorola JT1000 - -- Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA bbj innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBSjEjdgQiWVsfSvVvAQJOkQf+JpD7OPB/R+/ITq6iQSLGwdsC9/W3KjAF ldKZAHMYSJLtTWWBe7dMesWNCIH5drAgz4w70D+TdegdbueM30hXj15tVPP7yefz cvQ3zVirjrwfEUaN1qvno8MDafdbJ32yBfdtxlZpIg8bi4KQ5mwE4faWnfw4PZ9s SAlu+RXuK+xuq01tJ3RpEhypqK0XqdFEolHoUc1EQsfKfaHodYvZ07DNzo71tgP4 klhQKxu4SKSc9IIhPe/4RuSimKSa3Ohvc8jTgOCY5xwiE9lh5pABVGB5VDZyENNN NjX0wFDD7X5zLiOw6dCovY0QPM53Lt9Ar9qgNvYywS2p7Uke/9j19Q== =26y0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- __ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's
I seem to have learnt something new today. I didn't think that "front pannel programmable" radios that were frequency agile could get an FCC approval (for Part 90 or other non ham use) these days. I also looked up the FCC ID on the FCC web site and found a copy of the manual that seems to confirm front pannel programability. - Original Message From: Kauto Huopio OH2LFM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:37:56 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's > Its interesting that nobody seemed to look at their main page, where I > found this statement: > **WOUXUN Two-way radios are CE FCC and RoHS approved.** > > And further down the page: > _WOUXUN Two-way radios are FCC approved.FCC ID:WVTWOUXUN03 > Feeding this ID to Google I find this: http://www.chinatwowayradio.com/showroom/wouxun/certificate/index.htm --Kauto OH2LFM ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall) (Ben Jackson)
Here the even the possession is prohibithed... An extract from the Canadian Radiocommunication Act PROHIBITIONS INTERDICTIONS Prohibitions 4. (1) No person shall, except under and in accordance with a radio authorization, install, operate or possess radio apparatus, other than (a) radio apparatus exempted by or under regulations made under paragraph 6(1)(m); or (b) radio apparatus that is capable only of the reception of broadcasting and that is not a distribution undertaking. Idem (2) No person shall manufacture, import, distribute, lease, offer for sale or sell any radio apparatus, interference-causing equipment or radio- sensitive equipment for which a technical acceptance certificate is required under this Act, otherwise than in accordance with such a certificate. Idem (3) No person shall manufacture, import, distribute, lease, offer for sale or sell any radio apparatus, interference-causing equipment or radio- sensitive equipment for which technical standards have been established under paragraph 6(1)(a), unless the apparatus or equipment complies with those standards. "-" Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's
> Its interesting that nobody seemed to look at their main page, where I > found this statement: > **WOUXUN Two-way radios are CE FCC and RoHS approved.** > > And further down the page: > _WOUXUN Two-way radios are FCC approved.FCC ID:WVTWOUXUN03 > Feeding this ID to Google I find this: http://www.chinatwowayradio.com/showroom/wouxun/certificate/index.htm --Kauto OH2LFM ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's
This started my day off with a good chuckle, thanks Ernie... 73 Jeff kb2m -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Ernie Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 7:16 AM To: amsat bb Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's Its interesting that nobody seemed to look at their main page, where I found this statement: **WOUXUN Two-way radios are CE FCC and RoHS approved.** And further down the page: _WOUXUN Two-way radios are FCC approved.FCC ID:WVTWOUXUN03 _Look for yourself: http://www.wouxun.com/ So they do claim they are FCC approved and there is a FCC ID number. Does this make everyone's argument moot? Simple research is important sometimes. :) Ernie W8EH ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's
Its interesting that nobody seemed to look at their main page, where I found this statement: **WOUXUN Two-way radios are CE FCC and RoHS approved.** And further down the page: _WOUXUN Two-way radios are FCC approved.FCC ID:WVTWOUXUN03 _Look for yourself: http://www.wouxun.com/ So they do claim they are FCC approved and there is a FCC ID number. Does this make everyone's argument moot? Simple research is important sometimes. :) Ernie W8EH ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall) (Ben Jackson)
At 10:20 AM 6/10/2009, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote: >True. >If equipment needed an FCC number then you wouldn't be allowed to >use home brew gear without it being tested by the FCC. > >Ben Jackson wrote: > > > "Devices used in the Amateur Radio Service do not require authorization > > prior to being imported into the United States, but devices for other > > services, including the CB service, require Commission approval." > > > > Thus, provided the importer only uses it under Part 97, it's kosher. I > > just can't, say, use it under a GMRS license or something. >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb I think you will find that manufactured ham transmitters and receivers are submitted for FGCC approval. Home built is not per regulations. How often you see a new piece fo equipment advertised not that waiting for FCC approval to be marketed. What regulations are for imported equipment to the US? 73, Ed - KL7UW ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's
While it may be legal to USE said radio on the amateur bands, if the radio
is designed to operate on frequencies in certain services , such as the
public service bands, it MUST be FCC type accepted ("certificated") for
those services in order to even be IMPORTED into the U.S. They must also
meet Part 15 interference standards.
Check the message forums on e-Bay: Customs HAS seized these radios numerous
times over the last several years. They are being sold by "stores" in Hong
Kong, but are actually shipped from distributors in California.
73,
George, KA3HSW
- Original Message -
From: "Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:21 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall)
(BenJackson)
[snip]
>
> Now on to using these radios. Clint - since you have been stridently
> insisting on the illegality of using non-FCC-certified radios on the US
> ham bands, could you please show us the specific law/rule/regulation
> that states that hams cannot use non-certified commercial gear in the
> ham bands? I am aware of is the technical requirements in FCC
> Part 97, Subpart D, which cover whatever radio - homebrew, kit, or
> made in a factory - that we may decide to use on the ham bands
> and other parts about not causing interference etc. The radio may
> not be FCC certified, but if it meets Part 97 - and the licensee is not
> transmitting outside the bounds of his/her license with it - that's what
> FCC is interested in. FCC Part 97 does not speak to the origin of
> the radio or whether or not it has certification (except for HF and 6m
> amplifiers, which require certification as outlined in 97.315 and
> 97.317).
___
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[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall) (Ben Jackson)
At 06:49 AM 6/11/2009, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > > Do people purchase non-FCC-certified commercial rigs and use them on > > the amateur bands? Yes. > > > > Is it legal to do so? No. > >It might be illegal in the US, but it's not illegal in the UK. Over >here, you are responsible for operating your equipment in-band, no-one >else. Certainly not the manufacturer. Same for Australia, it's the amateur's responsibility that they are operating in band and transmitting a clean signal. I can use any old radio on the amateur bands, providing that I am actually in band, and not transmitting spurious junk all over the place. However, like much of the world, I can NOT use a modified amateur transmitter on another service (e.g. CB, commercial 2 way, etc), because it is not type approved for that service. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall) (BenJackson)
CLIP {
It appears that US Customs is not concerned with individuals buying these
non-certified radios in very small quantities from offshore shops or eBay
storefronts etc. If HRO, AES, etc. wanted to advertise one of these non-
certified radios, then I would expect FCC to step in and question it. }
It seems to me a few years back the fcc did step in and stop the sales of some
china or tiwani (and I know I spelled that wrong). UHF radios at hamvention in
Dayton it was a few years ago maybe 2004/2005
one of my buddys got one of the radio it wasn't a jingtong but was something
like that weird two name thing. It was uhf and sort of meant for amateur use,
at least it had some features that hams would want pl tones, etc -- but it from
the factory was able to transmit on everything - and I think it would go to
1khz steps as well. But basicly from 400 mhz to 499.999 mhz it would transmit,
the thing that got most people was the cost 25 bucks american brand new - they
sold a lot of them - the FCC shut them down in a matter of a few hours
I think if they (FCC) knows about they will stop it, once it is here and in the
amateur's hands he is ultimatly reasonable for it's use or miss use -
There are a couple of amps floating around that don't meet the requirement and
legally can't be sold in the states (I believe what the ad for it says is it
can not be imported) the ad says once it is here it is legal to use I don't
know if that is true or not but I do know a lot of hams that have this amp - I
forget what model it is now, but it was made for the FT817. The reason it
couldn't get certified was because the power of the 817 is qrp and something
about in the hf bands you have to have 15 or 20 watts to drive the amp (-
honestly I knew I have since forgotten the amount) but that was generally why
this amp wouldn't pass the requirements
It was designed to work on the 817
Ok I am just rambling now sorry about that
Just thought I would put my 2 cents in
LeRoy, KD8BXP
Sent on the Now Network� from my Sprint® BlackBerry
-Original Message-
From: "Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK)"
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:21:04
To:
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall) (Ben
Jackson)
Hi Clint!
> The original post described a commercial HT ... operating WAY OUT of
> the 2M and 440 amateur bands. For marketing and sales within the
> United States, FCC certification is required.
>
> Do people purchase non-FCC-certified commercial rigs and use them on
> the amateur bands? Yes.
>
> Is it legal to do so? No.
The problem with this whole line of messages is that two completely separate
issues are being thrown together - the purchase and use of the non-FCC-
certified radios by hams on the ham bands. I am not a lawyer. Here goes...
First of all, FCC requires certification for ham gear in two instances:
1. Amplifiers for bands below 144 MHz. (see 97.315 and 97.317 of the
FCC rules, http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/ )
2. Ham receivers or transceivers that cover outside ham bands above
30 MHz (receivers outside ham bands are covered by FCC Part 15;
transmitters outside the ham bands would be covered by another part
or part of the FCC rules depending on the frequencies covered).
Take a look at this web site:
http://www.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/
This lets you search the FCC Equipment Authorization Database. Take
the FCC ID number off your radio, cell phone, or anything else that might
have that number, and you get access to information about that item.
There is the grant of certification, sometimes there is other information like
test reports, copies of manuals, photos (internal and/or external), and other
items submitted by the manufacturer or importer/distributor as part of the
process.
If you have a dual-band HT or mobile, put that ID number into the link above
and read the grant. The grant only covers the receiver, not the transmitter
part of the radio. It will be certified according to some subpart of FCC Part
15, *not* Part 97. Sometimes the grant will be for the frequency ranges
outside the ham bands (this is all that FCC requires), but many will also
get certification for the ham bands to simplify the application. If the gear
only covers the ham bands, or is confined to operation below 30 MHz
(i.e., no expanded low-VHF or 6m coverage), certification is not required.
It appears that US Customs is not concerned with individuals buying these
non-certified radios in very small quantities from offshore shops or eBay
storefronts etc. If HRO, AES, etc. wanted to advertise one of these non-
certified radios, then I would expect FCC to step in and question it. Note
that the major ham manufacturers tease us with advertisements for new
radios in the magazines before certification has been granted by FCC,
but with a disclaimer that the radio cannot be offered for sale or l
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall) (Ben Jackson)
I disagree. Since amateur radio operators can build their gear, ANY radio can be used so long as it's spectral purity and power output are within the established limits. (At least here in the USA) RoD KD0XX --- On Wed, 6/10/09, Clint Bradford wrote: From: Clint Bradford Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall) (Ben Jackson) To: "Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF" Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 2:23 PM The original post described a commercial HT ... operating WAY OUT of the 2M and 440 amateur bands. For marketing and sales within the United States, FCC certification is required. Do people purchase non-FCC-certified commercial rigs and use them on the amateur bands? Yes. Is it legal to do so? No. Clint Bradford ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall) (Ben Jackson)
Hi Clint! > The original post described a commercial HT ... operating WAY OUT of > the 2M and 440 amateur bands. For marketing and sales within the > United States, FCC certification is required. > > Do people purchase non-FCC-certified commercial rigs and use them on > the amateur bands? Yes. > > Is it legal to do so? No. The problem with this whole line of messages is that two completely separate issues are being thrown together - the purchase and use of the non-FCC- certified radios by hams on the ham bands. I am not a lawyer. Here goes... First of all, FCC requires certification for ham gear in two instances: 1. Amplifiers for bands below 144 MHz. (see 97.315 and 97.317 of the FCC rules, http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/ ) 2. Ham receivers or transceivers that cover outside ham bands above 30 MHz (receivers outside ham bands are covered by FCC Part 15; transmitters outside the ham bands would be covered by another part or part of the FCC rules depending on the frequencies covered). Take a look at this web site: http://www.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/ This lets you search the FCC Equipment Authorization Database. Take the FCC ID number off your radio, cell phone, or anything else that might have that number, and you get access to information about that item. There is the grant of certification, sometimes there is other information like test reports, copies of manuals, photos (internal and/or external), and other items submitted by the manufacturer or importer/distributor as part of the process. If you have a dual-band HT or mobile, put that ID number into the link above and read the grant. The grant only covers the receiver, not the transmitter part of the radio. It will be certified according to some subpart of FCC Part 15, *not* Part 97. Sometimes the grant will be for the frequency ranges outside the ham bands (this is all that FCC requires), but many will also get certification for the ham bands to simplify the application. If the gear only covers the ham bands, or is confined to operation below 30 MHz (i.e., no expanded low-VHF or 6m coverage), certification is not required. It appears that US Customs is not concerned with individuals buying these non-certified radios in very small quantities from offshore shops or eBay storefronts etc. If HRO, AES, etc. wanted to advertise one of these non- certified radios, then I would expect FCC to step in and question it. Note that the major ham manufacturers tease us with advertisements for new radios in the magazines before certification has been granted by FCC, but with a disclaimer that the radio cannot be offered for sale or lease until that certification is granted. A way to step around restrictions on marketing a non-certified radio, I think. It appears that FCC has not tried to get eBay to stop those non-US sellers of the non-certified gear from being visible to US visitors to that site. And the big 3 or 4 ham manufacturers still announce radios without FCC certification with that disclaimer in the ad. Now on to using these radios. Clint - since you have been stridently insisting on the illegality of using non-FCC-certified radios on the US ham bands, could you please show us the specific law/rule/regulation that states that hams cannot use non-certified commercial gear in the ham bands? I am aware of is the technical requirements in FCC Part 97, Subpart D, which cover whatever radio - homebrew, kit, or made in a factory - that we may decide to use on the ham bands and other parts about not causing interference etc. The radio may not be FCC certified, but if it meets Part 97 - and the licensee is not transmitting outside the bounds of his/her license with it - that's what FCC is interested in. FCC Part 97 does not speak to the origin of the radio or whether or not it has certification (except for HF and 6m amplifiers, which require certification as outlined in 97.315 and 97.317). Now, where was I again? Oh, yes, the AMSAT-BB list, talking about amateur satellites...;-) 73! Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall) (Ben Jackson)
On Wed, 2009-06-10 at 11:23 -0700, Clint Bradford wrote: > The original post described a commercial HT ... operating WAY OUT of > the 2M and 440 amateur bands. For marketing and sales within the > United States, FCC certification is required. > > Do people purchase non-FCC-certified commercial rigs and use them on > the amateur bands? Yes. > > Is it legal to do so? No. It might be illegal in the US, but it's not illegal in the UK. Over here, you are responsible for operating your equipment in-band, no-one else. Certainly not the manufacturer. Gordon ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall) (Ben Jackson)
The original post described a commercial HT ... operating WAY OUT of the 2M and 440 amateur bands. For marketing and sales within the United States, FCC certification is required. Do people purchase non-FCC-certified commercial rigs and use them on the amateur bands? Yes. Is it legal to do so? No. Clint Bradford ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Way-OT: Re: Full Duplex HT's (Howard Kowall) (Ben Jackson)
True. If equipment needed an FCC number then you wouldn't be allowed to use home brew gear without it being tested by the FCC. Ben Jackson wrote: > "Devices used in the Amateur Radio Service do not require authorization > prior to being imported into the United States, but devices for other > services, including the CB service, require Commission approval." > > Thus, provided the importer only uses it under Part 97, it's kosher. I > just can't, say, use it under a GMRS license or something. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
