Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
What phone are you using? I do that stuff on my HTC Magic everyday, no issues. (Android 1.5 FTW? ;-) On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 3:00 PM, bemymonkey simonbroen...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone! First of all, I hope this is at least somewhat on-topic for this discussion group, as it seems to be the only way to reach Android developers easily. The problem I would like to discuss is the way Android handles running multiple applications at the same time. Take the following scenario, for instance: 1. Open the browser 2. Open a few links that you want to read later in new windows/tabs 3. Open another app (Say you received an SMS, for instance) 4. Reopen the browser, expecting to continue where you left off 5. Browser has closed all open windows WITHOUT saving the state or notifying the user This happens even if you're only jumping between completely Android- Native apps that came with the OS. There are various other similar scenarios, but this is easily the most annoying, since it results in complete loss of stuff I was actually planning on reading later. Why would anyone consider this to be actual multitasking? If there's no guarantee that the app you just left will still have the same state when you come back to it from your other tasks, it's NOT MULTITASKING. How is it that this is still an issue? We've arrived at Android 2.2, and we still can't minimize a program without running the risk of losing everything we just did? Are there at least plans to integrate proper multitasking in the future? Or a way to allow users to specifically select tasks that are not to be killed under any circumstances? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
I'm using a Motorola Milestone, running Android 2.1 (stock unrooted). Does your browser stay active if you open up the maximum amount of tabs, launch a different application and then come back? Do all the tabs stay open, and not refresh (or close altogether) when you reopen the browser? On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Anton Persson don.juan...@gmail.com wrote: What phone are you using? I do that stuff on my HTC Magic everyday, no issues. (Android 1.5 FTW? ;-) On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 3:00 PM, bemymonkey simonbroen...@gmail.comwrote: Hello everyone! First of all, I hope this is at least somewhat on-topic for this discussion group, as it seems to be the only way to reach Android developers easily. The problem I would like to discuss is the way Android handles running multiple applications at the same time. Take the following scenario, for instance: 1. Open the browser 2. Open a few links that you want to read later in new windows/tabs 3. Open another app (Say you received an SMS, for instance) 4. Reopen the browser, expecting to continue where you left off 5. Browser has closed all open windows WITHOUT saving the state or notifying the user This happens even if you're only jumping between completely Android- Native apps that came with the OS. There are various other similar scenarios, but this is easily the most annoying, since it results in complete loss of stuff I was actually planning on reading later. Why would anyone consider this to be actual multitasking? If there's no guarantee that the app you just left will still have the same state when you come back to it from your other tasks, it's NOT MULTITASKING. How is it that this is still an issue? We've arrived at Android 2.2, and we still can't minimize a program without running the risk of losing everything we just did? Are there at least plans to integrate proper multitasking in the future? Or a way to allow users to specifically select tasks that are not to be killed under any circumstances? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Simon Broenner Kasinostr. 94, 52066 Aachen, Germany +4917661249070 (Mobile) +492415903431 (Home) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
Simon Broenner wrote: Does your browser stay active if you open up the maximum amount of tabs, launch a different application and then come back? The standard Android browser does not have tabs. Perhaps you installed a different browser. If by tabs you mean windows, then, yes, they stay open on every Android device I have used, including the DROID (CDMA equivalent of the Milestone). -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy _The Busy Coder's Guide to *Advanced* Android Development_ Version 1.5 Available! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
Obviously the windows (which is what I meant - I _am_ using the native Android browser) stay open as they should in most scenarios - it's usually when the memory starts to get low and the OS starts killing tasks that this becomes a problem. There are a few similar experiences listed in this thread: http://androidforums.com/android-lounge/23356-multitasking.html The problem seems to be that Android is killing the task to free up memory even though it was in use until 10 seconds ago, and doesn't bother to save the state so that it can restore it when the app is restarted... As a reference, I have around 30-40MB of free memory when this starts happening - so it's not likely to be caused by too much stuff running in the background. On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote: Simon Broenner wrote: Does your browser stay active if you open up the maximum amount of tabs, launch a different application and then come back? The standard Android browser does not have tabs. Perhaps you installed a different browser. If by tabs you mean windows, then, yes, they stay open on every Android device I have used, including the DROID (CDMA equivalent of the Milestone). -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy _The Busy Coder's Guide to *Advanced* Android Development_ Version 1.5 Available! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Simon Broenner -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
Simon Broenner wrote: Obviously the windows (which is what I meant - I _am_ using the native Android browser) stay open as they should in most scenarios - it's usually when the memory starts to get low and the OS starts killing tasks that this becomes a problem. I use Android devices a fair bit, and I have not encountered this problem. That does not mean that the problem does not exist for you, but that the situation is probably a wee bit more complex than your subject line indicates. -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy Android 2.2 Programming Books: http://commonsware.com/books -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
Hmmm, I'm beginning to get that feeling too. Any idea what the cause could be? Obviously I'm not using any auto task killers or anything like that... :( On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote: Simon Broenner wrote: Obviously the windows (which is what I meant - I _am_ using the native Android browser) stay open as they should in most scenarios - it's usually when the memory starts to get low and the OS starts killing tasks that this becomes a problem. I use Android devices a fair bit, and I have not encountered this problem. That does not mean that the problem does not exist for you, but that the situation is probably a wee bit more complex than your subject line indicates. -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy Android 2.2 Programming Books: http://commonsware.com/books -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Simon Broenner -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
Simon Broenner wrote: Hmmm, I'm beginning to get that feeling too. Any idea what the cause could be? Obviously I'm not using any auto task killers or anything like that... :( Off the top of my head, no. If you're a developer, and you can get it to happen, plug it into USB and scan logcat for any interesting messages. Usually, Android logs when it is killing off processes, and it feels like your Browser process is getting killed. If you're not a developer, the only advice I can offer is for you to come up with a repeatable scenario that consistently causes the problem, preferably from a freshly-rebooted phone. (even more ideally would be a phone with no third-party apps, but I'm guessing this is your personal phone, so having you wipe it would be a bit intrusive) If you can find such a scenario, post it here or on [android-discuss], so we can see if other devices exhibit the same behavior. If we can find cases across several devices, it's probably an Android bug. If the only other cases are Milestones, it might be a Motorola bug. If we can't reproduce the problem, I'd start taking a real close look at any third-party apps you have installed. -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy Android Training...At Your Office: http://commonsware.com/training -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
I just went through the whole process and logged it: 1. Open browser 2. Open maximum number of windows by using open in new window (set to open new windows in background, in case that matters), all with different content (so not all the same link) 3. Switch to a different application (in my case I clicked an e-mail address from the browser, which launched the Gmail app) 4. Then switch back to the browser, either via a long hold on the Home key or from the Home Screen Launcher Log: http://www.narcotic-symphony.de/simon/androidlog.txt Relaunching the browser (Step 4) takes place at around line line 161. Can you make heads or tails of it? Thanks for your help so far! On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote: Simon Broenner wrote: Hmmm, I'm beginning to get that feeling too. Any idea what the cause could be? Obviously I'm not using any auto task killers or anything like that... :( Off the top of my head, no. If you're a developer, and you can get it to happen, plug it into USB and scan logcat for any interesting messages. Usually, Android logs when it is killing off processes, and it feels like your Browser process is getting killed. If you're not a developer, the only advice I can offer is for you to come up with a repeatable scenario that consistently causes the problem, preferably from a freshly-rebooted phone. (even more ideally would be a phone with no third-party apps, but I'm guessing this is your personal phone, so having you wipe it would be a bit intrusive) If you can find such a scenario, post it here or on [android-discuss], so we can see if other devices exhibit the same behavior. If we can find cases across several devices, it's probably an Android bug. If the only other cases are Milestones, it might be a Motorola bug. If we can't reproduce the problem, I'd start taking a real close look at any third-party apps you have installed. -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy Android Training...At Your Office: http://commonsware.com/training -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Simon Broenner -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
This is the relevant part of the log, as far as I can tell:
06-05 18:02:21.531: INFO/ActivityManager(1282): Displayed activity
com.google.android.gm/.ComposeActivity: 2025 ms (total 2631 ms)
06-05 18:02:22.101: ERROR/cache(2780): disableTransaction is out of sync
06-05 18:02:22.242: INFO/ActivityManager(1282): Process com.android.browser
(pid 2780) has died.
06-05 18:02:22.242: INFO/ActivityManager(1282): Low Memory: No more
background processes.
06-05 18:02:22.242: INFO/WindowManager(1282): WIN DEATH: Window{4507b368
com.android.browser/com.android.browser.BrowserActivity paused=false}
06-05 18:02:25.187: WARN/KeyCharacterMap(4253): Can't open keycharmap file
06-05 18:02:25.187: WARN/KeyCharacterMap(4253): Error loading keycharmap
file '/system/usr/keychars/qtouch-touchscreen.kcm.bin'.
hw.keyboards.65538.devname='qtouch-touchscreen'
06-05 18:02:25.187: WARN/KeyCharacterMap(4253): Using default keymap:
/system/usr/keychars/qwerty.kcm.bin
06-05 18:02:26.555: INFO/NotificationService(1282): enqueueToast pkg=
com.google.android.gmcallback=android.app.itransientnotification$stub$pr...@44de28d0duration=0
06-05 18:02:26.601: ERROR/Workspace(1364): mCurrentScreen = 1
06-05 18:02:26.633: WARN/InputManagerService(1282): Starting input on
non-focused client
com.android.internal.view.iinputmethodclient$stub$pr...@44e4edb0 (uid=10007
pid=4253)
06-05 18:02:26.633: WARN/IInputConnectionWrapper(4253): showStatusIcon on
inactive InputConnection
06-05 18:02:28.000: INFO/ActivityManager(1282): Starting activity: Intent {
act=android.intent.action.MAIN cat=[android.intent.category.LAUNCHER]
flg=0x1020 cmp=com.android.browser/.BrowserActivity
bnds=[125,446][235,564] }
06-05 18:02:28.055: INFO/ActivityManager(1282): Start proc
com.android.browser for activity com.android.browser/.BrowserActivity:
pid=4265 uid=10045 gids={3003, 1015}
06-05 18:02:28.109: INFO/dalvikvm(4265): Debugger thread not active,
ignoring DDM send (t=0x41504e4d l=38)
06-05 18:02:28.180: INFO/dalvikvm(4265): Debugger thread not active,
ignoring DDM send (t=0x41504e4d l=42)
06-05 18:02:28.289: INFO/ActivityThread(4265): Publishing provider browser:
com.android.browser.BrowserProvider
06-05 18:02:29.164: DEBUG/BrowserSettings(4265): Enter
getFactoryResetHomeUrl()
06-05 18:02:29.164: DEBUG/BrowserSettings(4265): http index is 14
06-05 18:02:29.164: DEBUG/BrowserSettings(4265): Preload homepage is
http://www.google.com
06-05 18:02:29.398: DEBUG/dalvikvm(4265): GC freed 1981 objects / 142280
bytes in 175ms
06-05 18:02:30.453: INFO/ActivityManager(1282): Displayed activity
com.android.browser/.BrowserActivity: 2410 ms (total 2410 ms)
It starts more or less at the launching of the Gmail app and ends at the
browser being relaunched after it was killed due to low memory.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Simon Broenner simonbroen...@gmail.comwrote:
I just went through the whole process and logged it:
1. Open browser
2. Open maximum number of windows by using open in new window (set to
open new windows in background, in case that matters), all with different
content (so not all the same link)
3. Switch to a different application (in my case I clicked an e-mail
address from the browser, which launched the Gmail app)
4. Then switch back to the browser, either via a long hold on the Home key
or from the Home Screen Launcher
Log: http://www.narcotic-symphony.de/simon/androidlog.txt
Relaunching the browser (Step 4) takes place at around line line 161.
Can you make heads or tails of it?
Thanks for your help so far!
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.comwrote:
Simon Broenner wrote:
Hmmm, I'm beginning to get that feeling too.
Any idea what the cause could be? Obviously I'm not using any auto task
killers or anything like that... :(
Off the top of my head, no.
If you're a developer, and you can get it to happen, plug it into USB
and scan logcat for any interesting messages. Usually, Android logs when
it is killing off processes, and it feels like your Browser process is
getting killed.
If you're not a developer, the only advice I can offer is for you to
come up with a repeatable scenario that consistently causes the problem,
preferably from a freshly-rebooted phone.
(even more ideally would be a phone with no third-party apps, but I'm
guessing this is your personal phone, so having you wipe it would be a
bit intrusive)
If you can find such a scenario, post it here or on [android-discuss],
so we can see if other devices exhibit the same behavior. If we can find
cases across several devices, it's probably an Android bug. If the only
other cases are Milestones, it might be a Motorola bug. If we can't
reproduce the problem, I'd start taking a real close look at any
third-party apps you have installed.
--
Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy)
http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy
http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy
Android Training...At Your Office:
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
This might be a longshot. Perhaps it's not the browser, but the web pages. If you have many browser windows open, each web page contributes to memory pressure. I have the same experience on my desktop with 2 GB. After power browsing for a while - that is, having multiple open tabs for several days - I frequently have to close the browser because the system gets sluggish. This happens for both IE and FF. In my case, I keep SFGate and Gmail open. Of course, I'm just speculating. Is there any easy way to check the Android browser's memory usage relative to the other applications? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
I'm pretty sure the browser is using a lot of memory, and the OS is perfectly within its rights to close the application when it's in the background - but not without saving the state first. I'm currently testing with more free phone storage memory (previously about 22MB free, now 53MB), and so far I haven't been able to reproduce the problem (only the reloading - the entire browser just being gone hasn't happened so far). Is it possible that the saved states are placed in the same storage space that installed applications occupy? That would explain the change in symptoms... will get another log when I get home later. On 5 Jun 2010 19:02, Frank Weiss fewe...@gmail.com wrote: This might be a longshot. Perhaps it's not the browser, but the web pages. If you have many browser windows open, each web page contributes to memory pressure. I have the same experience on my desktop with 2 GB. After power browsing for a while - that is, having multiple open tabs for several days - I frequently have to close the browser because the system gets sluggish. This happens for both IE and FF. In my case, I keep SFGate and Gmail open. Of course, I'm just speculating. Is there any easy way to check the Android browser's memory usage relative to the other applications? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
05.06.2010 20:09, Simon Broenner пишет: 2. Open maximum number of windows by using open in new window (set to open new windows in background, in case that matters), all with different content (so not all the same link) What do you mean by maximum number of windows ? How many is that? What happens if you try to open one more? -- Kostya Vasilev -- WiFi Manager + pretty widget -- http://kmansoft.wordpress.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
When I reach the max., the new window and open new window buttons just disappear. Max. is something like 8 or 10 windows. On 5 Jun 2010 19:11, Kostya Vasilyev kmans...@gmail.com wrote: 05.06.2010 20:09, Simon Broenner пишет: 2. Open maximum number of windows by using open in new window (set to open new windows in bac... What do you mean by maximum number of windows ? How many is that? What happens if you try to open one more? -- Kostya Vasilev -- WiFi Manager + pretty widget -- http://kmansoft.wordpress.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
Just reproduced again with all the newly freed program memory (albeit with relatively memory-heavy web sites like Engadget and Slashdot) :( Looks like having more free application memory delays the process somewhat though... On 5 Jun 2010 19:11, Kostya Vasilyev kmans...@gmail.com wrote: 05.06.2010 20:09, Simon ... 2. Open maximum number of windows by using open in new window (set to open new windows in bac... What do you mean by maximum number of windows ? How many is that? What happens if you try... You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
Simon Broenner wrote: 1. Open browser 2. Open maximum number of windows by using open in new window (set to open new windows in background, in case that matters), all with different content (so not all the same link) 3. Switch to a different application (in my case I clicked an e-mail address from the browser, which launched the Gmail app) 4. Then switch back to the browser, either via a long hold on the Home key or from the Home Screen Launcher Log: http://www.narcotic-symphony.de/simon/androidlog.txt Relaunching the browser (Step 4) takes place at around line line 161. Can you make heads or tails of it? Well... First, your Browser process dies. It's not a hard crash (e.g., SIGSEGV), so I am guessing it is dying due to low memory -- more on this below. Then, ActivityManager#appDiedLocked() is checking to see if there are any background processes. Finding none, it logs the Low Memory: No more background processes message, then is ripping through all existing processes, telling each to garbage collect. The combination of that plus the Browser process being gone has freed up enough memory to allow the Browser to re-open when you return to it, albeit sans state. - You stated in an earlier message: As a reference, I have around 30-40MB of free memory when this starts happening - so it's not likely to be caused by too much stuff running in the background. Bear in mind that not all memory is created equal, and Browser is likely to be stranger than your average app. Most apps are Java apps (either SDK or internal Android apps), with limited heap sizes (16-24MB). The Browser is based on WebKit. It's memory management has little to do with Java -- WebKit is written in C/C++. Hence, I'm not sure that the 30-40MB of free memory necessarily represents memory that WebKit is able to use. And, as Frank Weiss noted, Web pages can chew up a fair bit of RAM. You then wrote: I'm pretty sure the browser is using a lot of memory, and the OS is perfectly within its rights to close the application when it's in the background - but not without saving the state first. I do not think it is getting a chance to complete saving its state before it dies. Android has the right to terminate processes directly to free up RAM if it needs it. Is it possible that the saved states are placed in the same storage space that installed applications occupy? That's fairly likely. And, as Brad Fitzpatrick noted at Google I|O 2010, flash writes get slower as flash gets closer to full. So, one possible scenario is that the Browser is trying to save its state across all your windows but runs out of time due to slower flash writes, and Android winds up having to proactively kill it off to free up the RAM for Gmail. Generally speaking, memory management works more smoothly. However, this is one of the reasons why I advise developers to go with more smaller activities than one big fat one, so that state-saving and memory reclamation can be done in tiny chunks. The tactical workaround: limit yourself to only a few Browser windows, or try an alternative browser that might do it state-saving in a different way that will hold up better with more windows open. -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy _Android Programming Tutorials_ Version 2.0 Available! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
I think the OP's issue is that the Andorid Browser doesn't save the open windows state upon close (force close in the OP's case). I've confirmed this with just a reboot - but that may be a different syndrome. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
Frank Weiss wrote: I think the OP's issue is that the Andorid Browser doesn't save the open windows state upon close (force close in the OP's case). The Browser rarely goes through a normal close, because Browser uses the BACK button for browser operations, so eventually people just start using the HOME key rather than BACK their way to the beginning. BrowserActivity does have an onSaveInstanceState() implementation and uses it. Apparently, when a device is low on some memory resource, with a Browser with a lot of windows open, the Browser process gets terminated without going through the normal activity-destroy operation. I've confirmed this with just a reboot - but that may be a different syndrome. Nothing saves its state after a reboot, at least in the same state-saving that it would after being kicked out of RAM. That state is held in RAM itself and is not persisted AFAIK. -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy Warescription: Three Android Books, Plus Updates, One Low Price! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
The state save I'm refering to is via SharedPreferences. I've observed this in my own application. Indeed, the Android Browser's bookmarks are saved across reboots, and I'd suppose across force closes as well, However, I think Mark is correct that some state may not be correctly saved in a FC situation. I think my theory still stands that the browser is not saving windows across reboots and FCs. If you think about it, it may not even be possible, depending on how you define saving windows, although FF and IE are able to restore tabs. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
I am pretty sure the browser saves its state in onSaveInstanceState, not persistently, and this is currently as intended. That is, it will retain its state when its process gets killed and restarted, but it is deliberately not trying to retain its state across reboots. Note that instance state is always saved before pause, BEFORE an app goes to the background. So that is the key point for state saving; after that, it doesn't matter when the process gets killed, nor is there a need to let the app do anything before it gets killed, the activity manager already has its saved state so it can be used to restore the activity in a new process. There are two main ways the browser could be losing its state: (1) The activity itself gets finished. Most likely the browser isn't doing this, but others can cause it to happen -- such as by hitting the Force Stop button which (prior to Froyo) is the API that task managers have been abusing. (2) Just a big in the browser (or less likely in the activity manager) that is causing the state to be lost or not correctly restored. To investigate these, you can use adb shell dumpsys activity to see the activity stack (in particular the browser activity entry) at various points. When it is in the background, does it say it has the saved state? Right before restarting it, is the entry still there will the saved state? If so, then there is most likely something going on when the browser tries to restore its state. If not, then something earlier is going buggy when the state is saved. On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Frank Weiss fewe...@gmail.com wrote: The state save I'm refering to is via SharedPreferences. I've observed this in my own application. Indeed, the Android Browser's bookmarks are saved across reboots, and I'd suppose across force closes as well, However, I think Mark is correct that some state may not be correctly saved in a FC situation. I think my theory still stands that the browser is not saving windows across reboots and FCs. If you think about it, it may not even be possible, depending on how you define saving windows, although FF and IE are able to restore tabs. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Multitasking on Android - Why So Incredibly Bad?
Hello everyone! First of all I'd like to thank you all for your helpful tips and information about what could be causing the problem. That said, I'd like to address a few points that have been mentioned: 1. I'm not concerned about reboots or Force Closes - if the device is rebooted or the browser has a FC fit, I don't expect all of my windows to be restored. It'd be a nice feature, but not something necessary, like being able to resume a browser session after only having minimized it. 2. The primary suspect, in my eyes, is still the free program memory (not RAM but the Flash in which applications are installed) - it seems to me that if the browser cannot find enough free phone memory to save its state, the saving process fails silently. This is supported by the observation I made earlier - with 20MB of phone memory free, I was able to reproduce the problem with 8-10 simple forum/e-mail pages open. With 50MB of phone memory free, I was only able to reduce the problem if at least 4 or 5 of the open tabs were very graphically intensive (and therefore memory intensive) sites. Diane wrote: *To investigate these, you can use adb shell dumpsys activity to see the activity stack (in particular the browser activity entry) at various points. When it is in the background, does it say it has the saved state? Right before restarting it, is the entry still there will the saved state? If so, then there is most likely something going on when the browser tries to restore its state. If not, then something earlier is going buggy when the state is saved. *I'll give this a try tomorrow... can't make any promises, however, as I'm still very new to Android development - haven't gotten much farther than Hello World and a few pages of the Developer's Guide so far ;) Thanks again for all your help! On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 11:29 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.comwrote: I am pretty sure the browser saves its state in onSaveInstanceState, not persistently, and this is currently as intended. That is, it will retain its state when its process gets killed and restarted, but it is deliberately not trying to retain its state across reboots. Note that instance state is always saved before pause, BEFORE an app goes to the background. So that is the key point for state saving; after that, it doesn't matter when the process gets killed, nor is there a need to let the app do anything before it gets killed, the activity manager already has its saved state so it can be used to restore the activity in a new process. There are two main ways the browser could be losing its state: To investigate these, you can use adb shell dumpsys activity to see the activity stack (in particular the browser activity entry) at various points. When it is in the background, does it say it has the saved state? Right before restarting it, is the entry still there will the saved state? If so, then there is most likely something going on when the browser tries to restore its state. If not, then something earlier is going buggy when the state is saved. On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Frank Weiss fewe...@gmail.com wrote: The state save I'm refering to is via SharedPreferences. I've observed this in my own application. Indeed, the Android Browser's bookmarks are saved across reboots, and I'd suppose across force closes as well, However, I think Mark is correct that some state may not be correctly saved in a FC situation. I think my theory still stands that the browser is not saving windows across reboots and FCs. If you think about it, it may not even be possible, depending on how you define saving windows, although FF and IE are able to restore tabs. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- Simon Broenner -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group.
