Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Proposal: Publish effective users' abuse-c

[Ángel González Berdasco]

Alessandro Vesely wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> (...)
> 
> I propose that RIPE accepts abuse-c email addresses from verified effective 
> users of a range of IP numbers, stores them in the database, and serves them 
> in 
> RDAP/ WHOIS queries besides the abuse-c addresses provided by the ISP.  
> Various 
> automated methods can be adopted to allow an effective user to be verified; 
> for 
> example publishing an HTTP URL or a DNS entry.  Abuse contacts added that way 
> can expire after a few months, forcing the effective user to renew them, so 
> as 
> to avoid stale entries.


Hello Ale

I think you should describe how this proposal differs from what is
available nowadays. Wouldn't they already be able to configure verified
effective users for the IP addresses (e.g. with an abuse-c of the
client and another of theirs) ?

They may be unwilling to do so or consider it a hurdle, requiring them
to create new objects and so on, but what makes you believe they would
be willing to use that new system?


Best

-- 
INCIBE-CERT - Spanish National CSIRT
https://www.incibe-cert.es/

PGP keys: https://www.incibe-cert.es/en/what-is-incibe-cert/pgp-public-keys



INCIBE-CERT is the Spanish National CSIRT designated for citizens,
private law entities, other entities not included in the subjective
scope of application of the "Ley 40/2015, de 1 de octubre, de Régimen
Jurídico del Sector Público", as well as digital service providers,
operators of essential services and critical operators under the terms
of the "Real Decreto-ley 12/2018, de 7 de septiembre, de seguridad de
las redes y sistemas de información" that transposes the Directive (EU)
2016/1148 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 6 July 2016
concerning measures for a high common level of security of network and
information systems across the Union.



In compliance with the General Data Protection Regulation of the EU
(Regulation EU 2016/679, of 27 April 2016) we inform you that your
personal and corporate data (as well as those included in attached
documents); and e-mail address, may be included in our records 
for the purpose derived from legal, contractual or pre-contractual
obligations or in order to respond to your queries. You may exercise
your rights of access, correction, cancellation, portability,
limitationof processing and opposition under the terms established by
current legislation and free of charge by sending an e-mail to
d...@incibe.es. The Data Controller is S.M.E. Instituto Nacional de
Ciberseguridad de España, M.P., S.A. More information is available
on our website: https://www.incibe.es/proteccion-datos-personales
and https://www.incibe.es/registro-actividad.



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Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Proposal: Publish effective users' abuse-c

[denis walker]

Hi Alessandro

Do you realise that abuse-c works hierarchically? The resource holder
is required to have an abuse-c in their ORGANISATION object as a
default. It was agreed by the community a few years ago to allow
additional abuse-c attributes in the resource objects. So if an end
user wants to receive abuse reports for their network the resource
holder can add an additional abuse-c attribute into the assignment
object (which is usually maintained by the resource holder). The abuse
ROLE object can be maintained by the end user so they can set their
own abuse email address. A query will only return the closest abuse
email address to any given IP address. So for any address in the end
user's range it will return their abuse email.

cheers
denis
co-chair DB-WG

On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 at 13:37, Alessandro Vesely  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> we all know abuse-c data is to be filled by the IP assignee, which I call ISP
> in the following.
>
> I understand that, since ISPs own IP space it is their job to ensure that it
> isn't abused.  If they give up the receiving of abuse complaints and give it 
> to
> their customer instead, and they don't receive the complaints as a result, 
> then
> they won't be aware if their customer is violating important policies.
>
> However, it is the ISPs' customers who are the effective users of those IPs.
> Any complaint, whether reporting spam or botnet activity, can probably be
> handled more effectively by the people who run the systems connected to a 
> given
> IP than the actual owner.
>
> I propose that RIPE accepts abuse-c email addresses from verified effective
> users of a range of IP numbers, stores them in the database, and serves them 
> in
> RDAP/ WHOIS queries besides the abuse-c addresses provided by the ISP.  
> Various
> automated methods can be adopted to allow an effective user to be verified; 
> for
> example publishing an HTTP URL or a DNS entry.  Abuse contacts added that way
> can expire after a few months, forcing the effective user to renew them, so as
> to avoid stale entries.
>
> I'm unsure if the above requires proposing a new policy or what else.  For the
> time being, it would be interesting to gauge if this WG likes the idea and if
> there are effective users, apart from me, who would be interested in 
> publishing
> their abuse-c.
>
>
> Best
> Ale
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change 
> your subscription options, please visit: 
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Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Potential New Co-Chair

[Cynthia Revström via anti-abuse-wg]

Hi Brian,

While not intensely familiar with the AA-WG specifically, this seems
like a good idea to me to help reduce load on the current co-chairs.
(I have no objections)

-Cynthia

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 11:04 AM Brian Nisbet  wrote:
>
> Colleagues,
>
> As you're all aware Alireza stepped down as Co-Chair at the end of his term 
> at RIPE 83. As nobody put themselves forward for the third position at that 
> time it was not filled, which is fine.
>
> Since then a community member contacted Tobias and I, expressing an interest 
> in helping to Chair the WG. They were rather engaged with important life 
> matters last autumn and did not have the chance to put themselves forward at 
> that point.
>
> What we are now proposing is that this person is introduced to the WG as a 
> potential Co-Chair (likely with a term technically starting at RIPE 83) and 
> the WG can either accept them or not. This is your choice, of course.
>
> So, as a first stage, does any object to this happening "out of cycle"? I'm 
> very happy to say that silence indicates consent here, but if you have any 
> objections then please state them here or to aa-wg-cha...@ripe.net before 
> 17:00 CET on Wednesday 26th January.
>
> If that is all good, we'll proceed with the next phase.
>
> Thank you all,
>
> Brian
> Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG
>
> Brian Nisbet (he/him)
>
> Service Operations Manager
>
> HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
>
> 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
>
> +35316609040 brian.nis...@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
>
> Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
>
> --
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change 
> your subscription options, please visit: 
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Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Potential New Co-Chair

[herve.clement]

+1

Hervé 


Orange Restricted

-Message d'origine-
De : anti-abuse-wg  De la part de Ángel 
González Berdasco
Envoyé : jeudi 20 janvier 2022 14:01
À : anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net
Objet : Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Potential New Co-Chair

El jue, 20-01-2022 a las 10:04 +, Brian Nisbet escribió:
> So, as a first stage, does any object to this happening "out of 
> cycle"? I'm very happy to say that silence indicates consent here, but 
> if you have any objections then please state them here or to 
> aa-wg-cha...@ripe.net before 17:00 CET on Wednesday 26th January.
> 
> If that is all good, we'll proceed with the next phase.
> 
> Thank you all,
> 
> Brian
> Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG


Hello Brian

No objections here to this "out of cycle" process. I support going ahead with 
this.

Best regards

--
INCIBE-CERT - Spanish National CSIRT
https://www.incibe-cert.es/

PGP keys: https://www.incibe-cert.es/en/what-is-incibe-cert/pgp-public-keys



INCIBE-CERT is the Spanish National CSIRT designated for citizens, private law 
entities, other entities not included in the subjective scope of application of 
the "Ley 40/2015, de 1 de octubre, de Régimen Jurídico del Sector Público", as 
well as digital service providers, operators of essential services and critical 
operators under the terms of the "Real Decreto-ley 12/2018, de 7 de septiembre, 
de seguridad de las redes y sistemas de información" that transposes the 
Directive (EU)
2016/1148 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 6 July 2016 
concerning measures for a high common level of security of network and 
information systems across the Union.



In compliance with the General Data Protection Regulation of the EU (Regulation 
EU 2016/679, of 27 April 2016) we inform you that your personal and corporate 
data (as well as those included in attached documents); and e-mail address, may 
be included in our records for the purpose derived from legal, contractual or 
pre-contractual obligations or in order to respond to your queries. You may 
exercise your rights of access, correction, cancellation, portability, 
limitationof processing and opposition under the terms established by current 
legislation and free of charge by sending an e-mail to d...@incibe.es. The Data 
Controller is S.M.E. Instituto Nacional de Ciberseguridad de España, M.P., S.A. 
More information is available on our website: 
https://www.incibe.es/proteccion-datos-personales
and https://www.incibe.es/registro-actividad.



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Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Potential New Co-Chair

[Ángel González Berdasco]

El jue, 20-01-2022 a las 10:04 +, Brian Nisbet escribió:
> So, as a first stage, does any object to this happening "out of
> cycle"? I'm very happy to say that silence indicates consent here,
> but if you have any objections then please state them here or to 
> aa-wg-cha...@ripe.net before 17:00 CET on Wednesday 26th January.
> 
> If that is all good, we'll proceed with the next phase.
> 
> Thank you all,
> 
> Brian
> Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG


Hello Brian

No objections here to this "out of cycle" process. I support going
ahead with this.

Best regards

-- 
INCIBE-CERT - Spanish National CSIRT
https://www.incibe-cert.es/

PGP keys: https://www.incibe-cert.es/en/what-is-incibe-cert/pgp-public-keys



INCIBE-CERT is the Spanish National CSIRT designated for citizens,
private law entities, other entities not included in the subjective
scope of application of the "Ley 40/2015, de 1 de octubre, de Régimen
Jurídico del Sector Público", as well as digital service providers,
operators of essential services and critical operators under the terms
of the "Real Decreto-ley 12/2018, de 7 de septiembre, de seguridad de
las redes y sistemas de información" that transposes the Directive (EU)
2016/1148 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 6 July 2016
concerning measures for a high common level of security of network and
information systems across the Union.



In compliance with the General Data Protection Regulation of the EU
(Regulation EU 2016/679, of 27 April 2016) we inform you that your
personal and corporate data (as well as those included in attached
documents); and e-mail address, may be included in our records 
for the purpose derived from legal, contractual or pre-contractual
obligations or in order to respond to your queries. You may exercise
your rights of access, correction, cancellation, portability,
limitationof processing and opposition under the terms established by
current legislation and free of charge by sending an e-mail to
d...@incibe.es. The Data Controller is S.M.E. Instituto Nacional de
Ciberseguridad de España, M.P., S.A. More information is available
on our website: https://www.incibe.es/proteccion-datos-personales
and https://www.incibe.es/registro-actividad.



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[anti-abuse-wg] Proposal: Publish effective users' abuse-c

[Alessandro Vesely]

Hi all,

we all know abuse-c data is to be filled by the IP assignee, which I call ISP 
in the following.


I understand that, since ISPs own IP space it is their job to ensure that it 
isn't abused.  If they give up the receiving of abuse complaints and give it to 
their customer instead, and they don't receive the complaints as a result, then 
they won't be aware if their customer is violating important policies.


However, it is the ISPs' customers who are the effective users of those IPs. 
Any complaint, whether reporting spam or botnet activity, can probably be 
handled more effectively by the people who run the systems connected to a given 
IP than the actual owner.


I propose that RIPE accepts abuse-c email addresses from verified effective 
users of a range of IP numbers, stores them in the database, and serves them in 
RDAP/ WHOIS queries besides the abuse-c addresses provided by the ISP.  Various 
automated methods can be adopted to allow an effective user to be verified; for 
example publishing an HTTP URL or a DNS entry.  Abuse contacts added that way 
can expire after a few months, forcing the effective user to renew them, so as 
to avoid stale entries.


I'm unsure if the above requires proposing a new policy or what else.  For the 
time being, it would be interesting to gauge if this WG likes the idea and if 
there are effective users, apart from me, who would be interested in publishing 
their abuse-c.



Best
Ale
--





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Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Potential New Co-Chair

[Piotr Strzyzewski via anti-abuse-wg]

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 10:04:21AM +, Brian Nisbet wrote:

Brian, All,

> So, as a first stage, does any object to this happening "out of cycle"? I'm 
> very happy to say that silence indicates consent here, but if you have any 
> objections then please state them here or to aa-wg-cha...@ripe.net before 
> 17:00 CET on Wednesday 26th January.
> 
> If that is all good, we'll proceed with the next phase.

I support this idea.

-- 
Piotr Strzyżewski

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Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Potential New Co-Chair

[Jetten Raymond]

No objections whatsoever..

Cheers

Ray



For Internal Use Only
From: anti-abuse-wg  On Behalf Of Brian Nisbet
Sent: torstai 20. tammikuuta 2022 12.04
To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net
Subject: [anti-abuse-wg] Potential New Co-Chair

Colleagues,

As you're all aware Alireza stepped down as Co-Chair at the end of his term at 
RIPE 83. As nobody put themselves forward for the third position at that time 
it was not filled, which is fine.

Since then a community member contacted Tobias and I, expressing an interest in 
helping to Chair the WG. They were rather engaged with important life matters 
last autumn and did not have the chance to put themselves forward at that point.

What we are now proposing is that this person is introduced to the WG as a 
potential Co-Chair (likely with a term technically starting at RIPE 83) and the 
WG can either accept them or not. This is your choice, of course.

So, as a first stage, does any object to this happening "out of cycle"? I'm 
very happy to say that silence indicates consent here, but if you have any 
objections then please state them here or to 
aa-wg-cha...@ripe.net before 17:00 CET on 
Wednesday 26th January.

If that is all good, we'll proceed with the next phase.

Thank you all,

Brian
Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG


Brian Nisbet (he/him)

Service Operations Manager

HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network

1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland

+35316609040 brian.nis...@heanet.ie 
www.heanet.ie

Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
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Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Potential New Co-Chair

[Janos Zsako]

Dear Brian,

What we are now proposing is that this person is introduced to the WG as a potential Co-Chair (likely with a term technically starting at RIPE 83) and the WG can either accept them or not. This is 
your choice, of course.


So, as a first stage, does any object to this happening "out of cycle"? I'm very happy to say that silence indicates consent here, but if you have any objections then please state them here or to 
aa-wg-cha...@ripe.net before 17:00 CET on Wednesday 26^th  January.


I support such an "out of cycle" appointment, as it would help the current 
co-chairs
in their work.

Best regards,



If that is all good, we'll proceed with the next phase.

Thank you all,

Brian
Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG

Brian Nisbet (he/him)

Service Operations Manager

HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network

1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland

+35316609040 brian.nis...@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie

Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270




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Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Potential New Co-Chair

[Gert Doering]

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 10:04:21AM +, Brian Nisbet wrote:
> What we are now proposing is that this person is introduced to
> the WG as a potential Co-Chair (likely with a term technically
> starting at RIPE 83) and the WG can either accept them or not. This
> is your choice, of course.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

Gert
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[anti-abuse-wg] Potential New Co-Chair

[Brian Nisbet]

Colleagues,

As you're all aware Alireza stepped down as Co-Chair at the end of his term at 
RIPE 83. As nobody put themselves forward for the third position at that time 
it was not filled, which is fine.

Since then a community member contacted Tobias and I, expressing an interest in 
helping to Chair the WG. They were rather engaged with important life matters 
last autumn and did not have the chance to put themselves forward at that point.

What we are now proposing is that this person is introduced to the WG as a 
potential Co-Chair (likely with a term technically starting at RIPE 83) and the 
WG can either accept them or not. This is your choice, of course.

So, as a first stage, does any object to this happening "out of cycle"? I'm 
very happy to say that silence indicates consent here, but if you have any 
objections then please state them here or to aa-wg-cha...@ripe.net before 17:00 
CET on Wednesday 26th January.

If that is all good, we'll proceed with the next phase.

Thank you all,

Brian
Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG


Brian Nisbet (he/him)

Service Operations Manager

HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network

1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland

+35316609040 brian.nis...@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie

Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
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