Re: [AOLSERVER] Updating Aolserver to use TLSv1.2

[Gustaf Neumann]

> I’m not up-to-date on proper configurations.

Just as a reference: with the ciphers and Protocol from NaviServer's 
nsssl [1]

one can get an A+ rating from SSL Labs [2]. One should also get decent
ratings with these configuration values from AOLserver.

-g

[1] https://bitbucket.org/naviserver/nsssl/
[2] https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=next-scripting.org

Am 23.06.15 um 18:11 schrieb Scott Goodwin:
By the way, ignore my CipherSuite line in there — you obviously don’t 
want SSLv2, +LOW, +MEDIUM and other components - you’ll likely just 
want the TLS v1.2 ciphers, which are listed here:


https://www.openssl.org/docs/apps/ciphers.html#TLS-v1.2-cipher-suites

Not sure what the CipherSuite string should look like to support that, 
but if I have time this week I’ll see if I can figure it out. Be aware 
that restricting to just TLS 1.2 may cause some older browsers to not 
work with your site, but I haven’t done hands-on work in this area in 
years, so


/s.


On Jun 23, 2015, at 12:00 PM, Scott Goodwin > wrote:


An AOLserver configuration file from an old server I used to run has 
this section defined:


ns_param Protocol"SSLv2, SSLv3, TLSv1"
ns_param CipherSuite "ALL:!ADH:RC4+RSA:+HIGH:+MEDIUM:+LOW:+SSLv2:+EXP"

From the OpenSSL documentation:

Only enable TLSv1.2:

SSL_CONF_cmd(ctx, "Protocol", "-ALL,TLSv1.2");


So I’d assume the following would restrict AOLserver to ONLY use TLS 1.2:

ns_param Protocol“-ALL,TLSv1.2"
ns_param CipherSuite "ALL:!ADH:RC4+RSA:+HIGH:+MEDIUM:+LOW:+SSLv2:+EXP"


/s.


On Jun 23, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Paula Giangeruso 
mailto:pgianger...@wineaccess.com>> wrote:


Does anyone have TLS v1.2 working on AOLserver?  If so how did you 
go about doing this?


Thank You,
Paula

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Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver questions

[Gustaf Neumann]

> Am 20.03.15 um 07:48 schrieb Sep Ng:

   what is hurting you?

> We have instances where we'd get a high number of concurrent users 
that the requests are getting queued, but when I look at the logs, 
there's a > lot of static files being served for each login page, let 
alone other pages being served in aolserver.  So, I'm theorizing that 
being able to get those > static file requests pushed into a single 
thread and free up the connection threads would help in scalability.


yes, there is a certain hope, that removing this burden from the
connection threads will improve the situation. Another option to reduce
queuing time is to increase the number of connection threads.
If the bottleneck are slow sql-queries then this pooling stuff will not 
help.


Often the first task to determine, what the bottleneck is, can be 
already be difficult.

NaviServer has several introspection means for monitoring. The following
graph shows queuing times, filter and run times (you won't get
these numbers from aolserver). The graph (from OpenACS.org) shows
that queuing time is on that site typically around 0.1 ms, with peaks in
the range of 16 ms. This is for example quite useful for determining the
right number of running connection threads. naviserver allows to
change this number dynamically without restart

weekly graph

> By the way, I've seen in previous posts of yours that the you did 
switch from aolserver to naviserver.  How big was the change?  What 
things did > you have to re-write/port to get them running in naviserver?


We did the move of our main site 4 years ago (now we have around 50 
naviserver sites),

but i do not have a detailed writeup of the changes. Most of our changes
went into OpenACS (download OpenACS 5.8.1, search for NaviServer).

what comes to my mind is:
- NaviServer dropped the useless "$conn" argument from several commands
  (like old: "ns_return $conn 200 text/plain ..." -> "ns_return 200 
text/plain ..."

- different modules (e.g. for ssl), different config file
- more functionality built-in which was as a module under aolserver
  crypo functions (sha, md5), cache, base-64 encoding, gzip delivery
  (actually, the "ns_cache" function in naviserver usues a single
  command style (ns_cache_eval) and in aolserver subcommand style,
  but we added already a compatibility layer to the naviserver source tree
  which is sufficient for OpenACS
- no ns_share (use nsv instead)
- no "ns_set -persistent"

We did not use the latter two, but this comes sometimes up in the 
mailing lists.

The move was quite easy for us, but ymmv.

-g
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Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver questions

[Gustaf Neumann]

Am 20.03.15 um 05:47 schrieb Sep Ng:

Hi Gustaf!  Thank you for the informative response!

I've been thinking of moving to NaviServer but I don't know enough 
about the transition to make that call yet.  Right now, we're on 
aolserver and so, I'm trying to see what I can do on this platform.  I 
do not understand why the delivery doesn't work on https out of the 
box and requires a reverse proxy.
bgdelivery takes the socket (file descriptor) of the current connection, 
but it has no knowledge about SSL. When it hands the file descriptor to 
the background delivery thread, this can write back to the client just 
using plain tcl i/o. So, background delivery can certainly write to the 
file-descriptor, but that won't be accepted by the client trying to 
decrypt the channel.


I suspect the varied client connection is part of the problem and them 
sitting on the connection threads is hurting us.

what is hurting you?
 However, we do not serve big files on our server so this has me 
wondering about the benefits of this change.

whatever big means. connections can "hang" also when writing a few KBs.


I'm not certain if aolserver has any facilities for asynchronous file 
writing and spooling.

the writer threads are an extension of naviserver over aolserver
 It seems that I will have to build everything by hand.  I had hoped 
that simply transferring the thread and having it ns_returnfile would 
be enough to get a simple form of background delivery going but it 
doesn't look like that's the case.
if your site requires https, one cant use bgdelivery without a reverse 
proxy.

otherwise, everything is pre-packaged.

-g


Regards.


On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 12:03:52 PM UTC+8, Gustaf Neumann wrote:

Dear Sep,

The question whether it is worth to use asynchronous delivery boils
down to a question of usage pattern and desired scalability.
The general problem with serving (large) resources via
classical aolserver is that a connection thread is unable
to handle other threads for the time span of the delivery.
It is important to understand that the time span of the delivery
is mostly
determined by the client. A client with little processing power
connection
over e.g. a mobile phone can block a connection quite a long time. A
special instance of this is the slow-read attack [2], which is
a special denial-of-service attack.

To serve e.g. 60 concurrent files one would require 60
connection threads. Note that this can happen quite soon when
serving content with several included  resources (images, css, js)
the first time to a client. When the server runs out of connection
threads, the requests are queued, which means that the
the user-perceived runtime of a request is actually queueing
time plus execution time.

Background delivery (as described in [2]) is fully integrated in
OpenACS
addresses the problem by delegating output spooling (file deliveries)
to a single thread, which can deliver easily several 100 concurrent
downloads by using Tcl's asynchronous I/O operations. Note that
this works not only for static resources, but as well dynamic
requests (e.g. generating long HTML pages from e.g. a database).
We used this approach with very good success since 2006
in large OpenACS installations (with e.g. 2000 simultaneous
active users; "simultaneous active" means here users who
requested pages within a time interval of 5 secs).

In OpenACS, one can use simply ad_returnfile_background [3]
instead of ad_returnfile to make use of background delivery.

The limitations of background delivery are that (a) it just works for
plain http, and (b) that it works for at most 1024 concurrently open
file handles. We addressed (a) by using a reverse proxy in front
of the server, which delivers the files from the backend via https.
The limitation (b) is harder, since it depends on Tcl's usage of the
select()
system call, which allows to wait for events for max. 1024 file
descriptors. Above this limit, it simply crashes. Lifting this limit
in systems like Linux is possible, but requires a privately compiled
libc and linux kernel. You might think, 1024 this is much more
one needs, but we were actually running close to this limit for
lecture casting (video streaming of university lectures).

A better approach is to use NaviServer.'s c-level support.
NaviServer provides lightweight c-implemented
writer-threads using asynchronous  I/O similar to
bg-delivery, but not using select(). The writer threads
works seemless with http and https. As with bgdelivery, a single
writer thread can serve a multitude of concurrent deliveries.
When several writer threads are defined, the load is split up
between these. NaviServer can also serve streaming
HTML (multip

Re: [AOLSERVER] AOLserver questions

[Gustaf Neumann]

Dear Sep,

The question whether it is worth to use asynchronous delivery boils
down to a question of usage pattern and desired scalability.
The general problem with serving (large) resources via
classical aolserver is that a connection thread is unable
to handle other threads for the time span of the delivery.
It is important to understand that the time span of the delivery is mostly
determined by the client. A client with little processing power connection
over e.g. a mobile phone can block a connection quite a long time. A
special instance of this is the slow-read attack [2], which is
a special denial-of-service attack.

To serve e.g. 60 concurrent files one would require 60
connection threads. Note that this can happen quite soon when
serving content with several included  resources (images, css, js)
the first time to a client. When the server runs out of connection
threads, the requests are queued, which means that the
the user-perceived runtime of a request is actually queueing
time plus execution time.

Background delivery (as described in [2]) is fully integrated in OpenACS
addresses the problem by delegating output spooling (file deliveries)
to a single thread, which can deliver easily several 100 concurrent
downloads by using Tcl's asynchronous I/O operations. Note that
this works not only for static resources, but as well dynamic
requests (e.g. generating long HTML pages from e.g. a database).
We used this approach with very good success since 2006
in large OpenACS installations (with e.g. 2000 simultaneous
active users; "simultaneous active" means here users who
requested pages within a time interval of 5 secs).

In OpenACS, one can use simply ad_returnfile_background [3]
instead of ad_returnfile to make use of background delivery.

The limitations of background delivery are that (a) it just works for
plain http, and (b) that it works for at most 1024 concurrently open
file handles. We addressed (a) by using a reverse proxy in front
of the server, which delivers the files from the backend via https.
The limitation (b) is harder, since it depends on Tcl's usage of the 
select()
system call, which allows to wait for events for max. 1024 file
descriptors. Above this limit, it simply crashes. Lifting this limit
in systems like Linux is possible, but requires a privately compiled
libc and linux kernel. You might think, 1024 this is much more
one needs, but we were actually running close to this limit for
lecture casting (video streaming of university lectures).

A better approach is to use NaviServer.'s c-level support.
NaviServer provides lightweight c-implemented
writer-threads using asynchronous  I/O similar to
bg-delivery, but not using select(). The writer threads
works seemless with http and https. As with bgdelivery, a single
writer thread can serve a multitude of concurrent deliveries.
When several writer threads are defined, the load is split up
between these. NaviServer can also serve streaming
HTML (multiple ns_write commands) via writer threads.
It also support static and dynamic gzip deliveries see e.g. [3]

When one uses OpenACS with NaviServer it will automatically use
writer-threads when configured. In reference [4] on can see the
difference in response time (actually the time duration spent
in connection threads) in NaviServer. OpenACS.org runs
on NaviServer since Sep 2014. A more detailed discussion
of these properties is in [5], all of this is part of NaviServer 4.99.6.

sorry for the longish reply,
-g

[1] 
http://openacs.org/xowiki/Boost_your_application_performance_to_serve_large_files!
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial-of-service_attack#Slow_Read_attack
[3] 
http://openacs.org/api-doc/proc-view?proc=ad_returnfile_background&source_p=1
[3] http://www.qcode.co.uk/post/121
[4] http://openacs.org/forums/message-view?message_id=4111406
[5] 
https://next-scripting.org/xowiki/docs/misc/naviserver-connthreadqueue/index1

Am 19.03.15 um 07:09 schrieb Sep Ng:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been reading up on aolserver background delivery tricks on 
> OpenACS and I've seen that the patches for the static TCL channel is 
> already in 4.5.1.  In the spirit of improving server performance, I've 
> been wondering if such facility is worth building on the custom app to 
> increase concurrency and scalability.
>
> Most of the time, our aolserver also has to handle incoming requests 
> for multiple jpeg, javascript libraries, and a lot of other things. 
>  Freeing up the connection thread sounds very useful in improving the 
> server scalability so I wanted a little bit of help on getting this to 
> work.
>
> It's been hard trying to wrap my head around using ns_conn channel and 
> what I can actually do with this static TCL thread.  It seems that I 
> should be redefining ns_returnfile to use background delivery.  Could 
> I use it to push a TCL proc that generates given the parameters, the 
> dynamic page to this TCL channel to free up my connections?
>
> Sep

---

Re: [AOLSERVER] Null responses

[Gustaf Neumann]

Dear Cyan,

you seem to have invested in detail into the problem. We are using
aolserver and naviserver since many years with heavy traffic
(since two last years just naviserver), but we have not seen this
problem.

Some question pop up:
- you say, you have a legacy application: did the problem show up
  just recently or did you become aware of this just recently?

- can you reproduce the problem on are bare metal machine?

- do you have the option to replace haproxy by nginx in front of aolserver?
  nginx can use for the intratalk persistent connections (we could reduce
  the number of connections to naviserver by some order of magnitude),
  nginx has various retry options. maybe haproxy has the same, i have not
  worked with this.

-gustaf neumann

Am 28.08.14 13:51, schrieb Cyan ogilvie:
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 9:34 PM, Torben Brosten <mailto:tor...@dekka.com>> wrote:

>
> On 08/27/2014 12:02 PM, Cyan ogilvie wrote:> ..
>  > There doesn't seem to be a pattern to the failing requests,
>  > sometimes it's small static files like favicon.ico, but mostly not
>  > (although in> our case we're not using fastpath for that - different
> favicons are
>  > served based on the request context).  At the moment I'm leaning
>  > towards some sort of corrupted connection thread state - the failures
>  > tend to cluster by time, server, user - so that, although the 
failures
>  > are exceedingly rare overall (220 yesterday), it's often the case 
that

>  > a given user will have to reload a page several times before they get
>  > a successful response.  The servers are fronted by haproxy which will
>  > tend to send a given session back to the same server.
>  > ..
>
> Have you ruled out a router issue, such as from ipv4 exhaustion or
> localized network flooding?

I'm pretty sure it's not network related at this stage.  To test this 
I built a man-in-the-middle relay listening on port 8008 running on 
the same server as nsd, which forwards all connection traffic to 
127.0.0.1:80 <http://127.0.0.1:80> and records the events and data it 
sees flowing in both directions, and a packet trace using tcpdump of 
both the requests arriving on eth0 and the relayed traffic on lo.  An 
iptables nat prerouting rule DNATs connections coming in on eth0 port 
80 to the relay's port 8008.  Another process watches the haproxy logs 
for indications of a failed request and retrieves a dump of the ring 
buffers from the relay and saves them for later analysis.


Here is the packet trace of the relay -> nsd traffic on the lo 
interface for a typical event (as captured by tcpdump, which indicated 
that no packets had been dropped):


Time  Prot Len  Info
34.750440 TCP  76 47576 > http [SYN] Seq=0 Win=32792 Len=0 MSS=16396 
SACK_PERM=1 WS=32
34.750465 TCP  76   http > 47576 [SYN, ACK] Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=32768 
Len=0 MSS=16396 SACK_PERM=1 WS=32

34.750479 TCP  68 47576 > http [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=1 Win=32800 Len=0
34.750720 TCP  4412 [TCP segment of a reassembled PDU]
34.750756 TCP  68 http > 47576 [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=4345 Win=32768 Len=0
34.751274 HTTP 439  GET 
/item/531138-RR-1012/Elgin-Art-Deco-Dial-Pocket-Watch HTTP/1.1

34.751295 TCP  68 http > 47576 [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=4716 Win=32768 Len=0
34.751377 TCP  68 http > 47576 [FIN, ACK] Seq=1 Ack=4716 Win=32768 Len=0
34.751492 TCP  68 47576 > http [FIN, ACK] Seq=4716 Ack=2 Win=32800 Len=0
34.751515 TCP  68 http > 47576 [ACK] Seq=2 Ack=4717 Win=32768 Len=0

The connection reaches the ESTABLISHED state and the HTTP request data 
is sent to nsd which is acked.  Then 0.8 ms later the connection is 
closed by nsd.  The first Tcl code that should execute for this 
request is a preauth filter, which starts by writing a log containing 
[ns_conn request].  That log message isn't reached in cases like this. 
 In this example the request is quite large (around 4.7 KB) because of 
some large cookies, but the same pattern happens for requests of 
around 400 bytes.


There appears to be a less common failure mode where the request 
processing happens normally and the Tcl code generates a normal 
response (HTTP code 200), but the response data never hits the 
network.  The network trace looks the same as the example I gave above 
except that the time between the ACK of the GET request and nsd's FIN, 
ACK is longer - around 20 - 70 ms which is in-line with the normal 
times for a successful request.  I haven't yet caught the packet trace 
between the relay and nsd for this case (only the trace on eth0 
between haproxy and the relay), so I'm not 100% certain of my 
interpretation of this failure mode yet.


There is usually a cluster of up to about 6 requests that fail in this 
way for a given server in the space of around 2 seconds, with long 
intervals between the clusters where no failures happen.


Cyan


-

Re: [AOLSERVER] Question re CPU usage

[Gustaf Neumann]

If you use a request monitor like nsstats you can quickly pinpoint 
long-running http-requests
-gn


Am 17.02.14 13:46, schrieb Thorpe Mayes:
> Hi Ayan,
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> No, this version has been running about two years. There are several web 
> sites and applications running.
> The problem started about 10 days ago, so I am looking at changes I made 
> around that time.
> Seems like a script that has gone wild. Just not quite sure what to look for.
>
> Thorpe
>
> On Feb 16, 2014, at 4:59 PM, Ayan George  wrote:
>
>> On 02/16/2014 05:33 PM, Thorpe Mayes wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> What would cause the following:
>>>
>>>
>>> Normally the CPU percent is in the low single digits.
>>>
>>> Now it gets as high as 333%.
>>>
>>> I am looking at recent changes, but I am not sure what to look
>>> for.
>>>
>> Do you have any custom .adp pages, URL handers, or other TCL scripts
>> running within AOLserver?  Or is this just a bone stock install
>> without any requests?
>>
>> My hunch is that there is a particular page or script causing this.
>>
>> -ayan
>>


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Re: [AOLSERVER] (no subject)

[Gustaf Neumann]

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[AOLSERVER] Announce: OpenACS 5.8.0 released

[Gustaf Neumann]

Dear all,

We are proud to announce the release of OpenACS 5.8.0.
The new release differs from OpenACS 5.7.0 in the following points:

 - Compatibility with PostgreSQL 9.2:
   The new version installs without any need for special
   parameter settings in new PostgreSQL versions.
   This makes it easier to use e.g. shared or packaged
   PostgreSQL installations.
 - Compatibility with NaviServer 4.99.5 or newer
 - Various performance and scalability improvements
 - Various bug fixes
 - Altogether, OpenACS 5.8.0 differs from OpenACS 5.7.0
   in more than 18.000 modifications (781 commits)
   contributed by 7 committers.

Many thanks to all the help!

Release Announcement: http://openacs.org/Announce-OpenACS-5.8.0
Details and Download: http://openacs.org/

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Re: [AOLSERVER] Fatal error laoding aolserver4-nssha1

[Gustaf Neumann]

For everybody still facing this problem and googling to this 
thread:  It is possible to fix this bug temporarily without 
waiting until the changes are played back into the ubuntu 
channels. Get the debian sources, add the flag yourself, 
repackage and install the debian package. For details, see 
here: http://openacs.org/forums/message-view?message_id=4074442

best regards
-gustaf neumann

On 27.05.13 13:39, Francesco P. Lovergine wrote:
> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 08:55:50AM +0100, Steve Manning wrote:
>> Luri
>>
>> I've hit this error myself when compiling for Ubuntu. The package
>> maintainer needs to add this CFLAG to the Makefile
>> -Wl,--no-as-needed before compiling.
>>
>> It's explained here 
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14329967/missing-a-library-in-ldd-after-using-gcc-l
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
> That's due to recent changes in default building options, I will try to issue
> an update for wheezy for all modules, in order to have them working. Hopefully
> it will be accepted as such by stable release managers.
>


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Re: [AOLSERVER] Fatal error laoding aolserver4-nssha1

[Gustaf Neumann]

Iuri,

the aolserver4-nssha1 package is maintained by Francesco Lovergine.
Please submit a bug-report to the debian packages
http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/aolserver4-nssha1.html

best regards
-gustaf neumann

Am 20.05.13 09:55, schrieb Steve Manning:

Luri

I've hit this error myself when compiling for Ubuntu. The package 
maintainer needs to add this CFLAG to the Makefile -Wl,--no-as-needed 
before compiling.


It's explained here 
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14329967/missing-a-library-in-ldd-after-using-gcc-l


Regards


Steve




On 20/05/13 02:37, Iuri Sampaio wrote:

Hi there,

In attempt to install OpenACS from scratch on ubuntu precise 12.04 I 
got the following error on aolserver4-nssha1. "could not find 
Ns_ModuleInit"


When I start up aolserver service I get a warning then a fatal error 
as decribed bellow:


[19/May/2013:19:27:15][18052.714974976][-main-] Notice: modload: 
loading '/usr/lib/aolserver4/bin/nssha1.so'
[19/May/2013:19:27:15][18052.714974976][-main-] Warning: modload: 
could not find Ns_ModuleInit in /usr/lib/aolserver4/bin/nssha1.so
[19/May/2013:19:27:15][18052.714974976][-main-] Fatal: modload: 
failed to load module '/usr/lib/aolserver4/bin/nssha1.so'



I verified that both files are correctly in place
/usr/lib/aolserver4/bin/nssha1.so
/usr/lib/aolserver4/lib/libnssha1.so

Furthermore, I installed aolserver packages via apt-get

I believe the package available on ubuntu repository was compiled 
without Ns_ModuleInit block.


Although, I'm reluctant to believe so I removed nssha1 and installed 
again fro tarball and the problem was solved.


Does anyone have any idea what it could be?
or if my assumption is valid?

Best wishes,
Iuri


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Re: [AOLSERVER] Windows 64 Progress

[Gustaf Neumann]

Concerning OpenACS: the short answer is that recent versions 
of OpenACS (5.7+) work with recent versions of naviserver 
(4.99.4, which was not yet released).


The integration consists of two parts: A scripted 
compatibility layer in naviserver 
(ns/tcl/aolserver-openacs.tcl) containing e.g. name mappings 
for ns_cache, etc.) and a few tests in the openacs script 
files for handling ns_share, the dropped conn argument etc. 
We use naviserver with OpenACS in our production environment 
since more than 2 years (see 
http://openacs.org/forums/message-view?message_id=3957131) 
and we have fed back the necessary changes to naviserver + 
openacs. The naviserver code base consists as well a sample 
config file written in a style similar to the 
aolserver-config file for aolserver. See also my reply to 
Agustin Lopez from last week.


-gustaf neumann



*From:*Jim Davidson [mailto:jgdavid...@gmail.com] *On 
Behalf Of *jgdavid...@mac.com

*Sent:* 10 October 2012 19:38
*To:* Maurizio Martignano
*Subject:* Re: [AOLSERVER] Windows 64 Progress

Sounds great.  And to be clear, Naviserver supports 
OpenACS directly?  I saw some talk about missing features, 
ns_share, etc.   Frankly, while I knew ACS when it was 
first created way back in 1995 I was never quite sure what 
it needed :)





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Re: [AOLSERVER] naviserver to replace aolserver?

[Gustaf Neumann]

Mauritio,

i have on my machines no win64.  Note, that there is a 
windows binary of

naviserver 4.99.2 on sourceforge built with several modules
(postgres, udp, ...) using mingw32.  If you are interested 
on trying this

under win64, go ahead.

Best regards
-gustaf neumann


On 07.10.12 17:06, Maurizio Martignano wrote:


Dear Gustav,

Thank you very much.

Now, please, If you have time and you want, take your 
binary and install it as service on a Windows 64 machine. 
Have the service start and run and please do observe its 
behaviour.


Thanks a lot in advance,

Maurizio




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Re: [AOLSERVER] naviserver to replace aolserver?

[Gustaf Neumann]

Dear Maurizio,
This is correct, i did my attempts with mingw 32bit under 
windows 7 professional SP1, 32bit.

Sorry, that i was not able to answer your email earlier.
-gustaf neumann

On 07.10.12 08:54, Maurizio Martignano wrote:


Dear Gustav,

I am sorry, you don't need to answer my previous posts.

The fact you had to add -D_USE_32BIT_TIME_T tells me you 
had as target Win32 (and not Win64).


I am interested in a Win64 port, compiled with the 
Microsoft tools chain.


Maurizio



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Re: [AOLSERVER] naviserver to replace aolserver?

[Gustaf Neumann]

On 06.10.12 18:28, Maurizio Martignano wrote:

This is a very good question.
...

3. Naviserver has a Win32 folder containing some Visual Studio project files
(something similar to the makefiles), but they are in Visual C++ Studio 2006
style. So my guess is that Naviserver has never been compiled for Windows
64.
zoran uses naviserver on most machines under windows, but 
with their commercial
product and their configuration. so, their should not be a 
principal problem with this.


i have just compiled the actual naviserver with Msys + Mingw 
under windows 7
and fixed a few glitches in the process (and committed these 
to the repository).
The most serious problem was with Tcl_StatBuf in tcl8.5.12, 
where one
has to add -D_USE_32BIT_TIME_T to the Makefile flags. For 
details, see:


http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3474726&group_id=10894&atid=110894


4. I am not sure the ns_oracle driver I specially debugged and corrected for
Quest and that works on Aolserver will work also Naviserver.

most likely, the oracle driver will work out of the box.

-gustaf neumann


So I will further investigate this point, but:
If I do not manage to  compile Naviserver on Windows 64 (as I said in other
posts I am not at all interested in Windows 32) or
If I do not manage to port my version of the ns_oracle driver
I will stick to Aolserver.

Regards,
Maurizio
  


-Original Message-
From: Fenton, Brian [mailto:brian.fen...@quest.ie]
Sent: 06 October 2012 18:00
To: 'Frank Bergmann'; 'John Buckman from BookMooch'
Cc: aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] naviserver to replace aolserver?

Hi all

I fully support any efforts to merge both projects. One question though: is
Naviserver supported on Windows?

Best wishes
Brian

-Original Message-
From: Frank Bergmann [mailto:fra...@fraber.de]
Sent: 06 October 2012 13:13
To: 'John Buckman from BookMooch'
Cc: aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] naviserver to replace aolserver?

Hi,



Question: what does aolserver have that might need to be merged into
naviserver?

Gustaf Neumann recently got ]project-open[ running on NaviServer without any
issues with
tcl8.5.11 + xotcl 2 + libthread (head) + tdom 0.83.

There are a few compatibility issues, but they are minor, so that we can
confirm from our user perspective that there is nothing missing in
NaviServer.
We are currently running OpenACS 5.7.0 as the base for ]po[ V4.0.


Cheers,
Frank

-Original Message-
From: John Buckman from BookMooch [mailto:j...@bookmooch.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 3:48 AM
To: aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [AOLSERVER] naviserver to replace aolserver?


Yes -- I think I recall Naviserver splitting because we weren't
responsive

at Aol.  Made sense at the time -- there was just no justification for Aol
to support the project at the time.

Merging back makes sense.  I'm guessing it's easier to fix whatever is

perceived as not working with Naviserver and freeze Aolserver than the other
way around?  Just a guess.  I always liked the Naviserver name better
anyway...

I'd vote for trying to get onboard the naviserver wagon, as
a) they seem to have had a lot of innovation
b) their documentation has apparently come a long way
c) their handling of scalability, leaking and memory bloat is apparently
further along than aolserver
d) their project name doesn't make people cringe.

Question: what does aolserver have that might need to be merged into
naviserver?

-john




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Re: [AOLSERVER] naviserver to replace aolserver?

[Gustaf Neumann]

Dear Agustin,

On 06.10.12 16:52, Agustin Lopez wrote:
> I am carefully reading that interesting thread.
> I will like to test naviserver on our OpenACS / .LRN installation,
> replacing (for test purposes) some AOLserver.
>
> Can anybody give me an advice? Any config for sample?
You will need naviserver and the postgres driver. Below are the
commands to obtain the newest versions from bitbucket
(using mercurial). Replace tcl and postgres with your
favorite versions.

$ cd /usr/local/src
$ hg clonehttps://bitbucket.org/naviserver/naviserver
$ cd naviserver
$ sh autogen.sh
$ ./configure --with-tcl=/usr/local/src/tcl8.5.12/unix
$ make
$ make install
$ cd /usr/local/src
$ hg clone https://bitbucket.org/naviserver/nsdbpg
$ cd nsdbpg
$ make POSTGRES=/usr/local/pg901/
$ make install

No other modules are needed for OpenACS. More detailed
instructions are in the README file.
https://bitbucket.org/naviserver/naviserver/

 From the bitbucket site, one can as well obtain the sources 
via .zip
or .tar.gz files, in this case, one does not need mercurial (hg)

There are as well tar-releases of naviserver and the
modules from sourceforge
http://sourceforge.net/projects/naviserver/files/naviserver/4.99.4/
The tar releases do not require "sh autogen.sh",
since they contain already with a "configure" file.

Configuring for OpenACS is easy:  The naviserver repository
contains a sample config file for OpenACS.
https://bitbucket.org/naviserver/naviserver/src/d7958b434d47/openacs-config.tcl

You should use a recent version of OpenACS (i would 
recommend the
head version) containing a few adjustments.

Let me know if you need more help.
-gustaf neumann


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Re: [AOLSERVER] Tcl 8.5.12 + AOLserver trunk

[Gustaf Neumann]

I would recommend to remove

--enable-symbols=mem

from the tcl configuration

-gustaf neumann

On 01.10.12 12:08, Wolfgang Winkler wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I've just recompiled aolserver + tcl:
>
> aolserver from git trunk:
>
> ./configure \
>   --prefix=/usr/local/aolserver_4.5.1 \
>   --with-tcl=/usr/local/lib/ \
>   --enable-threads \
>   --with-google-coredumper=/usr/local \
>   --enable-symbols
>
> tcl 8.5.12:
>
> ./configure\
> --enable-symbols   \
> --enable-threads  \
>   --enable-symbols=mem
>


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Re: [AOLSERVER] Windows Support

[Gustaf Neumann]

Maurizio,

the mentioned thread in the OpenACS forum is about speed,
not functionality.  The issue came up for large sites when
postgres changed the rules for their optimizer. I would think
that most OpenACS sites work fine with current pg versions.
The 9.* support is in OpenACS  CVS since July last year
(rather large change, bring stored procedures to the level
of current postgres, substantial changes in 55 files, see [1]).
Since recursive queries are as well rather new in pg,
and the changes for OpenACS to use recursive
queries requires update-scripts that might run a few hours,
we sent the recursive query optimizations to the main 
stakeholders
at the begin of this year and received little feedback so far
(maybe they prefer to be conservative for their large sites,
maybe they don't have the mentioned performance issue).
The recursive query optimizations are as well publically
available [2]. Yes, the code will go from our point of view
into future OpenACS, but we are not the only OpenACS
users, and we do not want to break other installations...

This discussion is here somewhat off-topic, it has nothing
to do with aolserver (or Windows support).
-gustaf neumann

[1] 
http://cvs.openacs.org/changelog/OpenACS/openacs-4/packages/acs-kernel
[2] 
http://www.openacs.org/forums/message-view?message_id=3959984

On 29.09.12 13:15, Maurizio Martignano wrote:
> Dear Gustav,
>   You wrote this post on the OpenACS forum:
> http://www.openacs.org/forums/message-view?message_id=3847401
>
> You are in the best position to explain this point, you decided to use
> recursive queries (CTEs) and replace this way huge materialized tree tables.
> I can only agree with this approach.
> But what is this? Something you did in your installations, or something
> commonly available in the OpenACS distributions, tar balls? Has the OpenACS
> data model changed accordingly?
> If yes my concern was a non-issue and I apologize for it.
> If not my concern is real and OpenACS does not support the latest versions
> of PostgreSQL.
>
> I hope to  have been clearer this time.
>
> Maurizio
>
>


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Re: [AOLSERVER] Windows Support

[Gustaf Neumann]

Jeff,

i fully agree with you that this would be the right 
direction and a
win-win situation for both communities. This would be however
not only a question of "turning the build setup", but a 
substantial
amount of rewriting of e.g. the i/o and threading layers.

A few years ago i have looked a little into replacing 
aolserver's
threading layer by libthread. That would give the benefit to 
have
all threads sitting in an event loop, making thread 
reloading etc.
much easier (connection and scheduled threads). I've
failed to convince Zoran to move this way (due to the required
amount of work).

-gustaf neumann

On 29.09.12 02:52, Jeff Hobbs wrote:
> It is likely quite possible to turn things around and have AOLServer be
> a set of extensions that load into a standard tclsh.  The state of
> extensions is pretty open, and again if more of the Tcl standard code
> can be leveraged (socket handling, threading, etc.), this would be a
> good thing.  After all, a lot of that was originally influenced by
> AOLServer code.
>
> I think this would be a win for portability as well as ease of use, but
> it may be a larger task to turn the build setup on it's head than anyone
> wants to undertake for a minor version update.
>
> Jeff
>


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Re: [AOLSERVER] Windows Support

[Gustaf Neumann]

Maurizio, i can't follow your concerns. We are running our 
production
server currently with OpenACS and PostgreSQL 9.1.4; the 
limiting
factor for database development is rather Oracle, since the
community decided to support both platforms. The discussion
has similarities to the aolser+window considerations).

-gustaf neumann

On 29.09.12 08:58, Maurizio Martignano wrote:
> If OpenACS doesn't convert its data model, replacing hierarchical structure
> with CTEs it will not run in an efficient way on PostgreSQL, and that will
> be the death of OpenACS, and therefore of AOLserver (?) .
>
> ...
> To be honest, from my limited point of view, I am not really worried about
> AOLserver, it does work; what worries me is OpenACS having problems with the
> new versions of PostgreSQL.
>
> All the best,
> Maurizio
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
>
> From: Jeff Hobbs [mailto:je...@activestate.com]
> Sent: 29 September 2012 02:53
> To: aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] Windows Support
>
> It is likely quite possible to turn things around and have AOLServer be a
> set of extensions that load into a standard tclsh.  The state of extensions
> is pretty open, and again if more of the Tcl standard code can be leveraged
> (socket handling, threading, etc.), this would be a good thing.  After all,
> a lot of that was originally influenced by AOLServer code.
>
> I think this would be a win for portability as well as ease of use, but it
> may be a larger task to turn the build setup on it's head than anyone wants
> to undertake for a minor version update.
>
> Jeff
>
> On 27/09/2012 4:11 PM, jgdavid...@mac.com wrote:
>> How about making AolServer nothing more than a TEA-compliant extension?
> Maybe we could create an "ns_main" command that created a thread that did
> all the AolServer stuff (i.e., listen on sockets, create connection pools,
> etc. etc.) and just run it in tclsh.
>> I never looked at TEA close enough to know if that's a ridiculous idea...
>>
>> -Jim
>>
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 11:25 AM, Jeff Hobbs  wrote:
>>
>>> On 2012-09-27, at 1:56 AM, Maurizio Martignano
>  wrote:
>>>> So what are the feasible options?
>>>> I believe there are only two (well three) options:
>>>> 1. we maintain the Windows code inside Aolserver (I favour this) 2.
>>>> we compile Unix only code via the SUA SDK 3. we forget about Windows
>>>> and we use real emulation, that is a VM running Linux
>>>>
>>>> But how many people are willing to download a VM of 1.5 GB or so
>>>> just to test a system?
>>> You might be surprised to hear that #3 and large downloads don't faze a
> lot of people if it means they get something that works.  ActiveState moved
> to this model with Stackato (a cloud platform - basically Heroku-in-a-box),
> and we haven't heard concerns about download size[1]. It's a custom linux vm
> that people can use from any OS (and we have plenty that use it on or from
> Windows).
>>> However, that's just a point that such things exist and are accepted.  I
> for one would vote to keep the Windows support in AOLserver.  I don't think
> it's that hard anymore (having done dev on so many platforms over the
> years), especially if you leverage the Tcl code base to the fullest extent.
>>> What I would recommend is only sticking with an msys-based build
>>> system (this means 'configure; make' on Windows).  If someone really
>>> wants to maintain an MSVC makefile that's fine, but I wouldn't
>>> agonize over it.  If you look at the latest TEA config files, they
>>> enable this cross-platform build portability pretty well.  You can
>>> still build with MSVC (or mingw-gcc), but you use GNU tools via msys.
>>> How people operate on Windows without msys or similar tools is a
>>> mystery to me. ;)
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> [1] while we agonized about cracking through 1G download sizes early on,
> the other day I saw a kid not think twice about downloading 1.4G on his Xbox
> just to get a _demo_ of a game.  The days of download limits are mostly
> gone.
>
> 
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Re: [AOLSERVER] aolserver startup crash

[Gustaf Neumann]

On 28.09.12 12:57, Wolfgang Winkler wrote:
> Hi!
>>> The only problem we have is similar to Johns occasional crashes. But
>>> I have 2 test servers and 1 pre production server, where AOLserver
>>> crashes with " Fatal: received fatal signal 11" or "alloc: invalid
>>> block: 0xc595660: b0 6", somtimes even 4 or 5 times while starting
>>> up. Nearly the same code works for other very similar installations
>>> with much higher load.
>> are you using at the backend SSL?
>> do you have a backtrace from gdb?
> We are using SSL a lot, but this is handled by nginx.
should have asked more precisely "... handled in aolserver".
>
> This are some gdb backtraces:
The crash happens in CallCommandTraces() ?
which version of tcl 8.5 is this?

Since you say, this happens during bootup, i assume this happens
before the first request. What is your "minthreads" setting?

-gustaf neumann


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Re: [AOLSERVER] why we've been moving to aolserver

[Gustaf Neumann]

On 28.09.12 09:34, Wolfgang Winkler wrote:
Performance is really fantastic. We had an Apache reverse 
proxy sitting in front of a big AOLserver site. When we 
hit sustained 200 pages/sec the system broke down. We 
tried to improve the AOLserver performance, until we 
noticed that it was Apache which could not cope with the 
load. So we switched to nginx and the system has been 
working fine for more than a month now. AOLserver did all 
the heavy lifting and still Apache was the bottleneck.

nice story!


Scaling ist great, too. We have servers with lots of 
memory, where we can cache nearly the whole (postgres) 
database in memory. Disc IO is negligible and works over a 
pretty fast fiber channel SAN, so the scarce ressource is 
CPU power. We noticed over the last few years, that 
throwing raw CPU power, be it fast processors or lots of 
cores, will improve the AOLserver performance nearly 
linear. With Apache/PHP, Apache/Java or IIS/ASP.net 
(shudder) not so much, to state it in friendly terms.
cpus are developing in favor of aolserver/naviserver; we 
discussed this a few years ago in the openacs forum

http://openacs.org/forums/message-view?message_id=2557344

I also would mention the fast startup times of AOLserver 
as an advantage. When you've ever tried to restart an 
Apache/Tomcat/JBoss site, you really get to value the 
difference of a startup time of seconds rather than minutes.


The only problem we have is similar to Johns occasional 
crashes. But I have 2 test servers and 1 pre production 
server, where AOLserver crashes with " Fatal: received 
fatal signal 11" or "alloc: invalid block: 0xc595660: b0 
6", somtimes even 4 or 5 times while starting up. Nearly 
the same code works for other very similar installations 
with much higher load.

are you using at the backend SSL?
do you have a backtrace from gdb?

-gustaf neuann

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Re: [AOLSERVER] Roadmap - 4.6 and beyond

[Gustaf Neumann]

As a contributor to aolserver and naviserver i want to add a 
few comments
- we are running between 30 and 50 servers for various 
projects,
   i would say that 70% are naviserver right now.
- the reason we switched from aolserver to naviserver was that
   with our load-pattern (using OpenACS) we experienced some 
problems:
   * up to about 1000 concurrent users aolserver was 
perfectly fine
   * above this, we saw crashes, running out of resources 
(connection threads),
 memory growth, etc., thread lockups, micro-lockups for 
a few seconds.
 Some of these lead to contributions to aolserver i did 
in the past
   * to pinpoint the problem we moved to Zoran's setup
 (tcl version, naviserver), that went though heaving 
testing on his side
 and was rock-stable
   * some of our problems disappeared/changed, some not 
(burst creation
 of theads,...). We have quite different load patterns 
than zoran.
   * we found sources for our problems at various places 
(server, tcl, ...
 machine architecture) depending as well on e.g. tcl 
versions etc.

By now, most of the problems are gone, we are using 
NaviServer in
production since more than two years. A summary is on the
link referenced below. Even more recently, we exchanged the
hardware to a more mainstream one (this improved the
performance by a factor of 3-4!). The fact that e.g. the 
resource
consumption went down, helped a lot to run on a much cheaper 
machine
(memory consumption, max number of connection threads went
from 80 to 30, etc.).

Btw., in this process of moving from POWER to Intel apparently
the biggest  source of our crashes went away. The way Tcl 
handles
thread-local storage (Tcl 8.5) seems to cause under heavy load
race conditions, which lead to crashes in otherwise stable
code-pieces (e.g. regexp). I rewrote some of the usages of the
tls infrastructure in tcl to use GCC's non-standard tls 
handling via
  "__thread", then the problem went from regexp to other
places using tls). The problem was most likely dirty reads 
in tcl +
mutex handling + POWER + gcc (from rhel). Tcl 8.6 is
supposed to be better in this regard.

For the changes in naviserver, see [1]. With the recent 
versions of
naviserver/tcl 8.5/libthread the server runs in a stable 
memory size, without
the need for daily reboots (although a reboot has some nice 
"self-healing"
properties for nsvs, etc.). See [2] for a statistics from a 
machine with
two naviservers with different configuration running (alice, 
nm).
Among other things one can see the stable rss and vsizes of 
the servers
over the last few months.

Aolserver is in terms of memory leaks not so bad either. One 
can see
on [3] the statistics from openacs.org and 
translate.openacs.org which
is runing aolserver 4.5.1. One can see, where we fixed an 
application
leak in May [4].

[1] 
https://bitbucket.org/naviserver/naviserver/src/5df3b1cb9ea6/NEWS
[2] 
http://alice.wu.ac.at/munin/wu.ac.at/alice.wu.ac.at/index.html#naviserver
[3] 
http://openacs.org/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain/index.html#naviserver
[4] 
http://openacs.org/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain/naviserver_translate_memsize.html

Concerning the comments below
- the documentation of naviserver is at least par with 
aolserver
   (the man pages are quite good).
- for me, the the biggest pain is the aolserver->naviserver
   config file conversion, but the actual documented
   config files on bitbucket contain now all values read 
from the
   server with the default values.
- porting all the changes from naviserver into aolserver is
   much more work than the other way round. i have no
   problem with the coexistence of naviserver and aolserver,
   providing urgent changes to both servers (as i have done 
in the past).
- both aolserver and naviserver are stable and mature (having
   advantages and disadvantages), the people running large sites
   are rather conservative. Having alternatives is rather a 
selling
   argument. If e.g. aolserver is dropping windows support,
   naviserver can continue it (or vice versa).

-gustaf neumann


On 27.09.12 23:25, John Buckman from BookMooch wrote:
> Naviserver has added a lot of interesting features, and appears to be fairly 
> mature.
>
> I would have probably switched to Naviserver two years ago if they had 
> documented some of their changes.  The quantity of the contributions, and the 
> interesting nature of many of them, make me feel that Naviserver is far from 
> "end of life".
>
> When I switched (temporarily) to naviserver I found enough things that didn't 
> work like aolserver, yet were totally undocumented, that the experience was 
> very frustrating and I went back to aolserver.  I was spending too much time 
> reading C source code to figure things out.
>
> So... my personal vote for an aolserver v5 would be merging in lots of the 
> naviserver code changes into aolserver.  There

Re: [AOLSERVER] Unable to install 4.5.1

[Gustaf Neumann]

On 16.07.12 18:47, Thorpe Mayes wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is on CentOS6.2
>
> Installed tcl8.5 per the aolserver README
>
> I have unpacked the aolserver tar file in a separate directory: 
> /package/aolserver-4.5.1
>
> After each attempt I run # gmake distclean
>
> >From the /package/aolserver-4.5.1 directory, I run # 
> >/usr/local/aolserver/bin/tclsh8.5 ./nsconfig.tcl
>
> Then, I run #gmake install
>
> Here is the output for all of this:

...

> ranlib /usr/local/aolserver/lib/libnsthread.a
> ranlib: '/usr/local/aolserver/lib/libnsthread.a': No such file
> gmake[1]: *** [install-dll] Error 1
> gmake[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/package/aolserver-4.5.1/nsthread'
> gmake: *** [install-bins] Error 1
I remember to have seen this. this says, that the static 
library can't be built
(this might be platform/configure dependent). For normal 
operations, the static
library is not necessary. I would not be suprised, if a 
"make install" after that
installs correctly. if not, take out the .a target from 
install-dll

-gustaf neumann


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Re: [AOLSERVER] pthreads and AOLserver

[Gustaf Neumann]

the subcommands "ns_thread wait" and "ns_thread join" are 
implemented with the identical c-code

(calling Ns_ThreadJoin(), which calls straigth pthread_join()).
aolserver has now own thread semantics.

"insistence"? You mean, why there are 2 commands? I could 
only guess: A few commands

are there solely for backward compatibility.

-gustaf neumann

On 22.06.12 00:21, Sep Ng wrote:

Thanks Maurizio.  I will review the links you have posted.

I wanted to raise this question to everyone.  It seems to 
me that ns_thread wait and join have the same 
functionality.  If that is the case, why the insistence of 
defining the 'wait' command?




On Thursday, June 21, 2012 10:13:47 PM UTC+8, Maurizio 
Martignano wrote:


Dear Sep Ng,

Memory leaks do exist in the majority
of Web Servers (Aolserver included). This is a sad
fact. Instead of trying to fix these leaks a better
and cheaper strategy could be to have a daily restart
of your web/application server.

In case you need continuous operation, you can set up
a cluster of web/application servers where each one of
them does a restart every now and then to cope with
the memory leaks, in any case the cluster never stops
being available.

I created several installations of this type, see for
instance:


http://www.spazioit.com/pages_en/sol_inf_en/distributed-sandbox-for-application-servers_en/

<http://www.spazioit.com/pages_en/sol_inf_en/distributed-sandbox-for-application-servers_en/>

Another need, which now unfortunately emerged in my
area is the requirement to have redundant
installations, capable of resisting to catastrophic
events. You can find something about this in here:

http://www.spazioit.com/pages_en/sol_inf_en/disaster_recovery_solutions_en/

<http://www.spazioit.com/pages_en/sol_inf_en/disaster_recovery_solutions_en/>

I hope you find this information useful.

Ciao,

Maurizio

*From:*Sep Ng
*Sent:* 21 June 2012 03:10
*To:* aolser...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:aolser...@googlegroups.com>
*Subject:* [AOLSERVER] pthreads and AOLserver

I've been poking around with how AOLserver handles
ns_threads and wanted to raise the questions
pertaining to memory leaks.
From the pthread_create man page...

A thread may either be/joinable/  or/detached/.  If a thread is joinable, 
then

another thread can callpthread_join(3)  
<http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/online/pages/man3/pthread_join.3.html>  to 
wait for the thread to terminate

and fetch its exit status.*Only when a terminated joinable thread 
has been*

*joined are the last of its resources released back to the system.*


Does this mean that if I don't use ns_thread join, the
resources and tcl interpreter of the thread spawned by
ns_thread begin will not get released?

If someone would kindly definitively answer this for
me, that would be well appreciated.

Regards.





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Re: [AOLSERVER] Thread safety Tcl's socket command vs ns_sockopen

[Gustaf Neumann]

There are no issues with the thread safety of the Tcl socket command, we 
use it regularly on a busy server (up to 10mio hits per day) with tcl 
8.5.11.


-gustaf neumann

Am 13.06.12 11:18, schrieb David Osborne:

Hi,
There was some discussion in the past about Tcl's socket command not 
being thread safe with the recommendation being that ns_sockopen 
should be used instead.


Does anyone know if this is still the case in Tcl 8.5 or have things 
moved on? I can't find any reference to thread safety of socket in the 
more recent documentation.


Thanks in advance.
--
David Osborne
Qcode Ltd



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Re: [AOLSERVER] Problem with ns_shutdown

[Gustaf Neumann]

On 05.03.12 16:27, Maurizio Martignano wrote:


Dear Gustav,

I believe you should also comment Jim's 
writing:


Anyway, as I could never really get Tcl cleanup to operate 
in a reliable way and because it didn't really matter to 
Aolserver, the call to Tcl_Finalize had been commented out 
for years. As this has become a recurring problem, I'd 
suggest now it should be a config option, default off.




The case for windows is special, since the crash happens 
there during the unload of the dll's, which is highly 
platform specific. The situation on unixes is different. In 
our configurations (mostly linux with 32bit and 64 bit, 
rhel/fedora/ubuntu, as well some mac os x), the shutdown 
works fine since many years (although we do not call it 
normally from the control port).


It is not the case, that Tcl_Finalize() in recent Tcl 
versions is inherently broken and "needs to be fixed". It is 
the situation as Jim points out, that some modules/packages 
might register handlers that have some bugs, or - which 
would be my primary suspect - some loaded module/package has 
a bug (overwritten some memory, double frees, ...) which 
manifests during cleanup. Cleanup is highly sensitive to 
bugs in the memory management.


The source of the problem should be fixed, not the symptom. 
It is not unlikely that the same bug will hit you in some 
other cases as well...


-gustaf

In the off-chance someone really needs Tcl_Finalize, they 
could set the option on.


All the best,

Maurizio

*From:*Gustaf Neumann [mailto:neum...@wu.ac.at]
*Sent:* 05 March 2012 11:29
*To:* aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
*Subject:* Re: [AOLSERVER] Problem with ns_shutdown

Dear Caroline,

We had a long discussion here in the list whether or not 
one should call Tcl_Finalize() during cleanup. While i am 
not in favor of commenting Tcl_Finalize() out on a 
unix-like os, i think that the possible harm of doing so 
is limited. A crash during finalize can hint to a problem 
sitting some else.


Concerning your crash-case: do you experience crashes on 
every ns_shutdown?


i would recommend to upgrade to tcl 8.5.11 if possible.

best regards
-gustaf neumann

On 02.03.12 05:49, Maurizio Martignano wrote:

Dear Caroline,

I use Aolserver on Windows Environments.

There the shutdown is always a problem if nsmain.c calls 
Tcl_Finalize.


To avoid any problem I had to comment out this call:

*#ifndef*_WIN32

Tcl_Finalize();

*#endif*

I believe that if you do the same, that is you comment out 
this call, you may avoid all race conditions you are 
experiencing.


Please do notice that not calling Tcl_Finalize is not an 
issue, cause the Aolserver process is anyhow about to die 
and the proper cleaning of all allocated resources is 
performed by the operating system.


Hope it helps,

Maurizio

*From:*Porter, Caroline [mailto:cpor...@bna.com]
*Sent:* 01 March 2012 19:43
*To:* Victor Guerra
*Cc:* aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net 
<mailto:aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net>

*Subject:* Re: [AOLSERVER] Problem with ns_shutdown

tcl 8.5.9

Caroline

*From:*vgue...@gmail.com <mailto:vgue...@gmail.com> 
[mailto:vgue...@gmail.com] 
<mailto:[mailto:vgue...@gmail.com]> *On Behalf Of *Victor 
Guerra

*Sent:* Thursday, March 01, 2012 10:36 AM
*To:* Porter, Caroline
*Cc:* aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net 
<mailto:aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net>

*Subject:* Re: [AOLSERVER] Problem with ns_shutdown

Which version of tcl are you running?

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Porter, Caroline 
mailto:cpor...@bna.com>> wrote:


We are shutting down aolserver via the control port using 
the ns_shutdown command.  We are getting intermittent 
coredumps during the shutdown process.  Does anyone have 
any ideas as to how to resolve this?


Here's some more info...

webserver log:

[29/Feb/2012:08:20:02][30350.82082672][-nscp:1-] Notice: 
nscp: 127.0.0.1 connected


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:03][30350.82082672][-nscp:1-] Notice: 
nscp: nsadmin logged in


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.4151592640][-main-] Notice: 
nsmain: AOLserver/4.5.1 stopping


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.4151592640][-main-] Notice: 
driver: stopping: nssock


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.4151592640][-main-] Notice: 
sched: shutdown pending


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.131660656][-socks-] Notice: 
socks: shutdown pending


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.4141099888][-sched-] Notice: 
sched: shutdown started


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.4141099888][-sched-] Notice: 
sched: waiting for event threads...


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.131660656][-socks-] Notice: 
nscp: shutdown


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.66386800][-sched:idle1-] 
Notice: exiting


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.148007792][-sched:idle0-] 
Notice: exiting


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.131660656][-socks-] Notice: 
socks: shutdown complete


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.56376176][-nssock:driver-] 
Notice: exiting


[29/Feb/2012:08:20

Re: [AOLSERVER] Problem with ns_shutdown

[Gustaf Neumann]

Dear Caroline,

We had a long discussion here in the list whether or not one 
should call Tcl_Finalize() during cleanup. While i am not in 
favor of commenting Tcl_Finalize() out on a unix-like os, i 
think that the possible harm of doing so is limited. A crash 
during finalize can hint to a problem sitting some else.


Concerning your crash-case: do you experience crashes on 
every ns_shutdown?


i would recommend to upgrade to tcl 8.5.11 if possible.

best regards
-gustaf neumann

On 02.03.12 05:49, Maurizio Martignano wrote:


Dear Caroline,

I use Aolserver on Windows Environments.

There the shutdown is always a problem if nsmain.c calls 
Tcl_Finalize.


To avoid any problem I had to comment out this call:

*#ifndef*_WIN32

Tcl_Finalize();

*#endif*

I believe that if you do the same, that is you comment out 
this call, you may avoid all race conditions you are 
experiencing.


Please do notice that not calling Tcl_Finalize is not an 
issue, cause the Aolserver process is anyhow about to die 
and the proper cleaning of all allocated resources is 
performed by the operating system.


Hope it helps,

Maurizio

*From:*Porter, Caroline [mailto:cpor...@bna.com]
*Sent:* 01 March 2012 19:43
*To:* Victor Guerra
*Cc:* aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
*Subject:* Re: [AOLSERVER] Problem with ns_shutdown

tcl 8.5.9

Caroline

*From:*vgue...@gmail.com <mailto:vgue...@gmail.com> 
[mailto:vgue...@gmail.com] 
<mailto:[mailto:vgue...@gmail.com]> *On Behalf Of *Victor 
Guerra

*Sent:* Thursday, March 01, 2012 10:36 AM
*To:* Porter, Caroline
*Cc:* aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net 
<mailto:aolserver-talk@lists.sourceforge.net>

*Subject:* Re: [AOLSERVER] Problem with ns_shutdown

Which version of tcl are you running?

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Porter, Caroline 
mailto:cpor...@bna.com>> wrote:


We are shutting down aolserver via the control port using 
the ns_shutdown command.  We are getting intermittent 
coredumps during the shutdown process.  Does anyone have 
any ideas as to how to resolve this?


Here's some more info...

webserver log:

[29/Feb/2012:08:20:02][30350.82082672][-nscp:1-] Notice: 
nscp: 127.0.0.1 connected


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:03][30350.82082672][-nscp:1-] Notice: 
nscp: nsadmin logged in


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.4151592640][-main-] Notice: 
nsmain: AOLserver/4.5.1 stopping


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.4151592640][-main-] Notice: 
driver: stopping: nssock


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.4151592640][-main-] Notice: 
sched: shutdown pending


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.131660656][-socks-] Notice: 
socks: shutdown pending


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.4141099888][-sched-] Notice: 
sched: shutdown started


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.4141099888][-sched-] Notice: 
sched: waiting for event threads...


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.131660656][-socks-] Notice: 
nscp: shutdown


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.66386800][-sched:idle1-] 
Notice: exiting


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.148007792][-sched:idle0-] 
Notice: exiting


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.131660656][-socks-] Notice: 
socks: shutdown complete


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.56376176][-nssock:driver-] 
Notice: exiting


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.4141099888][-sched-] Notice: 
sched: shutdown complete


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:04][30350.4151592640][-main-] Notice: 
driver: stopped: nssock


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:05][30350.82082672][-nscp:1-] Notice: 
nscp: 127.0.0.1 disconnected


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:05][30350.56376176][-shutdown-] Notice: 
Shutdown called for server bwd


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:05][30350.56376176][-shutdown-] Notice: 
nslog: closing 
'/data/bwd/logs/httpd_access_stg_delray.bna.com_5000.log'


[29/Feb/2012:08:20:05][30350.4151592640][-main-] Notice: 
nsmain: AOLserver/4.5.1 exiting


called Tcl_FindHashEntry on deleted table

Here's what is in the coredump...

Program terminated with signal 6, Aborted.

#0  0x0071d430 in __kernel_vsyscall ()

#0  0x0071d430 in __kernel_vsyscall ()

#1  0x0036ab71 in raise (sig=6) at 
../nptl/sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/raise.c:64


#2  0x0036c44a in abort () at abort.c:92

#3  0x002e8ddf in Tcl_PanicVA () from 
/apps/bos-dev/bwd/lib/libtcl8.5.so <http://libtcl8.5.so>


#4  0x002e8e04 in Tcl_Panic () from 
/apps/bos-dev/bwd/lib/libtcl8.5.so <http://libtcl8.5.so>


#5  0x002bccea in BogusFind () from 
/apps/bos-dev/bwd/lib/libtcl8.5.so <http://libtcl8.5.so>


#6  0x00304de1 in ThreadStorageGetHashTable () from 
/apps/bos-dev/bwd/lib/libtcl8.5.so <http://libtcl8.5.so>


#7  0x00304f0c in TclpThreadDataKeyGet () from 
/apps/bos-dev/bwd/lib/libtcl8.5.so <http://libtcl8.5.so>


#8  0x00303d28 in Tcl_GetThreadData () from 
/apps/bos-dev/bwd/lib/libtcl8.5.so <http://libtcl8.5.so>


#9  0x002e8545 in TclFreeObj () from 
/apps/bos-dev/bwd/lib/libtcl8.5.so <http://libtcl8.5.so>


#10 0x0030f8b0 in FreeVarEntry () from 
/apps/bos-dev/bwd/lib/libtcl8.5.so <http://libtcl8.5.so>


#11 0x002b