Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing
For those who have high-density orchards, do you find trellising with one wire at about 9 feet provides sufficient support, if a bamboo stake or the like is placed at each tree? Randy Steffens Jr Shepherd's Valley Orchards Middle Tennessee On Feb 28, 2011, at 6:55 AM, Con.Traas wrote: I agree with Terence and Dave, Their experience and concerns have been borne out here in Ireland over the past number of years, where it has been survival of the more dense (orchards rather than orchardists). Obviously there are limits, but in our own case, for our single line orchards we have opted for 4 ft. x 11ft., and we have found this a good spacing for the more vigorous Elstar variety (more vigorous than Golden Delicious or Jonagold at least). We do not grow the trees as high as at lower latitudes (more mutual shading from taller trees when you come this far North), and have found that a limit of about 5 ½ to 6 feet height of cropping wall works well. In practice, this wall commences about 2 feet above the ground, and finishes at 7.5 feet, facilitating all harvesting and pruning from ground level. Con Traas ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing
I had problems with just one 8' high wire. Trees bowed too much under fruit load. Trees midway between trellis posts pulled the wire down causing the entire row to be pulled down and bowed. Bamboo was ¾ diameter. One wire added later at 5 alleviated the problem. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Randy Steffens Jr Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 7:43 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing For those who have high-density orchards, do you find trellising with one wire at about 9 feet provides sufficient support, if a bamboo stake or the like is placed at each tree? Randy Steffens Jr Shepherd's Valley Orchards Middle Tennessee On Feb 28, 2011, at 6:55 AM, Con.Traas wrote: I agree with Terence and Dave, Their experience and concerns have been borne out here in Ireland over the past number of years, where it has been survival of the more dense (orchards rather than orchardists). Obviously there are limits, but in our own case, for our single line orchards we have opted for 4 ft. x 11ft., and we have found this a good spacing for the more vigorous Elstar variety (more vigorous than Golden Delicious or Jonagold at least). We do not grow the trees as high as at lower latitudes (more mutual shading from taller trees when you come this far North), and have found that a limit of about 5 ½ to 6 feet height of cropping wall works well. In practice, this wall commences about 2 feet above the ground, and finishes at 7.5 feet, facilitating all harvesting and pruning from ground level. Con Traas ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing
Bill, did you mean 5? Bill William H. Shoemaker Sr. Research Specialist, Food Crops University of Illinois - Crop Sciences St Charles Horticulture Research Center 535 Randall Road, St Charles, IL, 60174 630-584-7254, FAX-584-4610 wshoe...@illinois.edu I had problems with just one 8 high wire. Trees bowed too much under fruit load. Trees midway between trellis posts pulled the wire down causing the entire row to be pulled down and bowed. Bamboo was ¾ diameter. One wire added later at 5 alleviated the problem. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing
Yes, sorry. Monday morning you know Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of William H Shoemaker Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 8:49 AM To: 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing Bill, did you mean 5'? Bill William H. Shoemaker Sr. Research Specialist, Food Crops University of Illinois - Crop Sciences St Charles Horticulture Research Center 535 Randall Road, St Charles, IL, 60174 630-584-7254, FAX-584-4610 wshoe...@illinois.edumailto:wshoe...@illinois.edu I had problems with just one 8' high wire. Trees bowed too much under fruit load. Trees midway between trellis posts pulled the wire down causing the entire row to be pulled down and bowed. Bamboo was ¾ diameter. One wire added later at 5 alleviated the problem. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Training goal as it relates to initial planting
Thanks David! I have to agree. Don's post is steering me to central leader. I'm glad I asked my question to the group and got some feedback I didn't know I needed. -Original Message- From: David Doud david_d...@mac.com To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Sun, Feb 27, 2011 9:09 am Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Training goal as it relates to initial planting Rye - your picture shows a system that is highly regimented - excessively so for fruit production - if you want to do it to admire and enjoy, go ahead - be aware that many of these highly manipulated systems use Golden Delicious or some other variety with an agreeable growth habit - try to do that with Northern Spy or somesuch and you will experience frustration - otherwise, give yourself plenty of room and work with the tree - much better for fruit production - D On Feb 19, 2011, at 2:16 PM, ducn...@aol.com wrote: Hello, newbie here. I am planting a small high density orchard. I have bareroots on order on m9 nic-29. Due to arrive in the next week or three. I'm planting with 6 foot in-row spacing and looking to maintain a tree height of about 7-9 feet on 4 (or 5 if they look like they want to grow to 9 feet) wire trellises for a hedgegrow with the main branches latticed similar to this photo: http://resources.cas.psu.edu/TFPG/apple_trellis/images/slide33.gif Two ways I can think to accomplish this: 1) after planting, cut the scion to about 22 inches (from ground level) and train two leaders to grow 45 degrees North and South respectively. 2) initially plant trees at a 45 degree angle, leaning to the North, training a low shoot to grow 45 degrees to the South. I lean towards option 1) but being a newbie I'm hesitant to cut them so short. However, that's what it looks like was done in the photo. Can a newly planted bareroot handle being cut to 22 inches? Also they will be in grow tubes to protect from the critters. Just wanted to mention that if it matters that only about 3 inches of wood will get a full day's sun initially. Thank you so much for your consideration. Rye Hefley Future Farmer's Market Vendor Private orchard in So. Cal. ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ pple-crop mailing list pple-c...@virtualorchard.net ttp://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing
Hi Randy: I have had several trellising trials and I can tell you that it is difficult to keep the trees growing upright and to keep them from snapping at the graft union (especially Gala), if you use a single wire. The only possibility is to use a vigorous rootstock in the M.26 size. Use a 10' metal conduit, place the wire at a height (6' to 7') so that you can walk under the wire when trees are still young and insert the rest of the conduit in the ground. It did a fair job for us in Central Illinois because we have a very rich soil that makes trees on M.26 almost as big as on M.7. I would be hesitant to recommend it on sandy type soils or on M.9 or smaller rootstocks. Hope this helps, Mosbah Mosbah M. Kushad Food Crops Extension Specialist and Postharvest Physiologist University of Illinois 1201 West Gregory Drive Urbana, Illinois 61801 phone (217)244-5691 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Randy Steffens Jr Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 8:43 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing For those who have high-density orchards, do you find trellising with one wire at about 9 feet provides sufficient support, if a bamboo stake or the like is placed at each tree? Randy Steffens Jr Shepherd's Valley Orchards Middle Tennessee On Feb 28, 2011, at 6:55 AM, Con.Traas wrote: I agree with Terence and Dave, Their experience and concerns have been borne out here in Ireland over the past number of years, where it has been survival of the more dense (orchards rather than orchardists). Obviously there are limits, but in our own case, for our single line orchards we have opted for 4 ft. x 11ft., and we have found this a good spacing for the more vigorous Elstar variety (more vigorous than Golden Delicious or Jonagold at least). We do not grow the trees as high as at lower latitudes (more mutual shading from taller trees when you come this far North), and have found that a limit of about 5 ½ to 6 feet height of cropping wall works well. In practice, this wall commences about 2 feet above the ground, and finishes at 7.5 feet, facilitating all harvesting and pruning from ground level. Con Traas ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
