Re: *Potential Spam* RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

2010-02-12 Thread Harold J. Larsen 

Bill,

Unfortunately, I have been unable to find any commercial source for the 
"Garden Dig-It" unit your link describes.  I suspect it is no longer on 
the market.  That would argue in favor of a "home manufacture" approach 
to obtaining one.


Years ago, when we were doing pre-plant soil fumigation for orchard 
replant problem control, we made soil probes using standard pipe and 
fittings.  We used 3/4" or 1" pipe, a threaded "T" for the input and 90 
o output w/ a short 6" stub (capped) on the far side of the "T" to 
provide an additional hand access point to press the probe down into the 
ground.  The long ("business") end of the probe was a 42" length of pipe 
that was screwed into the "T".  The bottom end of the long pipe had a 2 
- 3" length bolt w/ the threads ground off, just the right diameter to 
fit inside the long pipe and the bolt head built up to a tapered 
round-pointed tip to enable penetration into the soil.  The bolt had an 
elongated oval slot (~0.5" length x 1/8" width) cut through the shank 
starting at about 1" above the bolt head; then a single 1/8+" diam. hole 
was drilled through the bottom of the long pipe at ~1" above the bottom 
end, the modified bolt inserted into the pipe and turned so that the 
holes lined up, and a 1/8" diam brass rod pushed through the holes (to 
allow the end bolt assembly to slide back against the bottom of the pipe 
to seal it when pushed into the ground and to allow the bolt to slide 
out from the pipe to open the pipe end when jerked back up after the 
probe had reached the desired depth for fumigant application -- allowing 
the fumigant to disperse from around the bolt shank in the pipe into the 
surrounding soil).  We even added a brass ball-valve on the inlet side 
to allow us to shut off the fumigant once we finished the injection so 
the fumigant wasn't spewing out of the tip under pressure as we pulled 
the probe out of the ground.   The root-needle fertilizer injector units 
available from the garden centers have a very similar design (but much 
smaller and no effective shutoff valve) that allows the water pressure 
to drill the probe's path down into the root zone.


I do have photos (& diagrams) - somewhere in my computer & 35mm slide 
collection - of the probes we made.  The question would be how to get 
them on the web.  I'm pretty unskilled at that aspect of webpages -- I 
suppose I could send them to Jon Clement and he could post them and 
provide a link.  If there is interest in that, I will look for them.


My point is that the probe you are talking about for  hydro-drilling 
could easily be made in a similar manner.  The difference would be in 
the pipe bottom structure.  Instead of being a sliding tip, one might 
find a solid tip with a central hole would work better???  One could 
simply plug the pipe end with a piece of tight-fitting rod w/ a central 
hole drilled in it to provide an outlet for the water.  I suspect one 
would need to have some lateral outward & downward-angled holes to 
facilitate a lateral "drilling" function.


Any thoughts on how the bottom of the probe/drill should be designed for 
maximum efficacy / drilling efficiency?  The photo in your link looks to 
have a straight-shot stream coming out of the probe bottom end.


Harold L.

--
Dr. Harold Larsen
Res. Pathologist&  Ext. Fruit Dis. Specialist
Colo. St. Univ., WCRC - Orchard Mesa
3168  B  1/2  Road
Grand Junction, CO  81503-9621
Ph:  (970) 434-3264, x-205
FAX:  (970) 434-1035
EMail:  harold.lar...@colostate.edu


On 2/12/2010 8:30 AM, Fleming, William wrote:


Wish I could be provide pictures but my drill is 600 miles and a 
decade away.


Better yet I found a similar device that's very economical [weblink 
deleted - HL].


It doesn't have a big tip like mine did but says it will bore an 8" hole.

I used a 400 gallon air blast sprayer, fan turned off, pressure set at 
80 psi. The hose to the drill needs to be at least ¾", preferably 
heavy duty enough to drag around rough ground.


With a 100' hose I could drill holes 5-6 rows on either side of the 
sprayer before it needed to be moved. 75-100 holes could be drilled 
per 400 gallon tank.


The way you form a pipe into a point is to first cut a series of 
touching triangles out of one end. You end up with a jagged edge that 
looks like a crown. Then just hammer the triangles inward so the edges 
and points touch, weld together.


**/Bill Fleming/**

**/Montana// State University/**

**/Western Ag Research Center/**

**/580 Quast Ln/**

**/Corvallis//, MT 59828/**

**/(406)961-3025/**

RE: *Potential Spam* RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

2010-02-12 Thread Fleming, William 
Wish I could be provide pictures but my drill is 600 miles and a decade away.

Better yet I found a similar device that's very economical> 
http://www.bookofjoe.com/2006/04/hose_drill_dig_.html
It doesn't have a big tip like mine did but says it will bore an 8" hole.
I used a 400 gallon air blast sprayer, fan turned off, pressure set at 80 psi. 
The hose to the drill needs to be at least ¾", preferably heavy duty enough to 
drag around rough ground.
With a 100' hose I could drill holes 5-6 rows on either side of the sprayer 
before it needed to be moved. 75-100 holes could be drilled per 400 gallon tank.

The way you form a pipe into a point is to first cut a series of touching 
triangles out of one end. You end up with a jagged edge that looks like a 
crown. Then just hammer the triangles inward so the edges and points touch, 
weld together.

Bill Fleming
Montana State University
Western Ag Research Center
580 Quast Ln
Corvallis, MT 59828
(406)961-3025

From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On 
Behalf Of lee elliott
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 5:29 AM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: *Potential Spam* RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

Wish I couldsee a photo of this water drill, not clear, how do you cut,bend a 
6inch pieceof 4inch pipe, how about a photo, Lee Elliott, winchester,il

--- On Thu, 2/11/10, Fleming, William  wrote:

From: Fleming, William 
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis
To: "Apple-Crop" 
Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 10:09 AM
Nick, the way it works when you use a tractor drawn tree planter is the logical 
place for the trellis poles is in the groove made by the planter.
If you attach the wire to the outside of the post with stapes the wire ends up 
half the post width out of line with the tree row..
That usually ends up being the 3-4 inches you mentioned.
Even if you don't use a planter better that the posts are in line with the tree 
row, wire will then be offset from the row.

Other things I've learned:
Rather than placing the trellis posts halfway between trees place them close to 
the tree. Depending on your tree spacing placing the post midway creates a 
small "dead space" that's harder to deal with for weed control. This is 
especially true if you're organic and using mechanical weed control but the 
post can also create a herbicide spray shadow.
With the post close to the tree you end up with one extra small space and 
another space almost equal to your tree spacing.

Using water to set the posts is the best method I've found. I made a tee shaped 
handle with 3/4" steel pipe, valve on the top of the tee.
Since we were using 4-5" posts I attached a 6 inch long piece of 4" pipe at the 
bottom of the tee. It was cut, bent, and welded to a point with a 1/2" outlet 
at the bottom for the water to exit. Water at 80 psi from a sprayer is plenty. 
Volume is more important than pressure.
With a two man crew we could set a very solid post in less than 30 seconds. One 
guy with the water, the other sets the post and plumbs it. You have to work 
very fast before soil suspended in the water settled, if it takes more than a 
second before the water drill is pulled out of the hole and the post is set it 
won't be as deep as you want.
The way it worked seemed excellent to me. Rocks and gravel would settle at the 
bottom of the post hole creating good drainage for the post. The fine silt that 
settled out of the water rapidly set up almost like concrete.
Much faster than an auger, less expense than a tractor mounted pounder.






Bill Fleming
Montana State University
Western Ag Research Center
580 Quast Ln
Corvallis, MT 59828
(406)961-3025

-Original Message-
From: 
apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<http://us.mc354.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=apple-c...@virtualorchard.net>
 
[mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<http://us.mc354.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=apple-c...@virtualorchard.net>]
 On Behalf Of Nick Lucking
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:49 PM
To: 
apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<http://us.mc354.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=apple-c...@virtualorchard.net>
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

Bill,

That's good to know.

On that note, when I plant these new trees should they be planted
directly inline with the trellis system?  Or be 2-3, or more inches
off the wire initially?  Thanks for the help, my horticulture degree
did not quite cover this!

Nick Lucking
Field Manager
Cannon Valley Orchard
Cannon Falls, MN


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RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

2010-02-12 Thread lee elliott 
Wish I couldsee a photo of this water drill, not clear, how do you cut,bend a 
6inch pieceof 4inch pipe, how about a photo, Lee Elliott, winchester,il

--- On Thu, 2/11/10, Fleming, William  wrote:


From: Fleming, William 
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis
To: "Apple-Crop" 
Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 10:09 AM


Nick, the way it works when you use a tractor drawn tree planter is the logical 
place for the trellis poles is in the groove made by the planter.
If you attach the wire to the outside of the post with stapes the wire ends up 
half the post width out of line with the tree row.
That usually ends up being the 3-4 inches you mentioned. 
Even if you don't use a planter better that the posts are in line with the tree 
row, wire will then be offset from the row.

Other things I've learned:
Rather than placing the trellis posts halfway between trees place them close to 
the tree. Depending on your tree spacing placing the post midway creates a 
small "dead space" that's harder to deal with for weed control. This is 
especially true if you're organic and using mechanical weed control but the 
post can also create a herbicide spray shadow.
With the post close to the tree you end up with one extra small space and 
another space almost equal to your tree spacing.

Using water to set the posts is the best method I've found. I made a tee shaped 
handle with 3/4" steel pipe, valve on the top of the tee.
Since we were using 4-5" posts I attached a 6 inch long piece of 4" pipe at the 
bottom of the tee. It was cut, bent, and welded to a point with a 1/2" outlet 
at the bottom for the water to exit. Water at 80 psi from a sprayer is plenty. 
Volume is more important than pressure.
With a two man crew we could set a very solid post in less than 30 seconds. One 
guy with the water, the other sets the post and plumbs it. You have to work 
very fast before soil suspended in the water settled, if it takes more than a 
second before the water drill is pulled out of the hole and the post is set it 
won't be as deep as you want.
The way it worked seemed excellent to me. Rocks and gravel would settle at the 
bottom of the post hole creating good drainage for the post. The fine silt that 
settled out of the water rapidly set up almost like concrete. 
Much faster than an auger, less expense than a tractor mounted pounder.






Bill Fleming
Montana State University
Western Ag Research Center
580 Quast Ln
Corvallis, MT 59828
(406)961-3025

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On 
Behalf Of Nick Lucking
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:49 PM
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

Bill,

That's good to know.

On that note, when I plant these new trees should they be planted  
directly inline with the trellis system?  Or be 2-3, or more inches  
off the wire initially?  Thanks for the help, my horticulture degree  
did not quite cover this!

Nick Lucking
Field Manager
Cannon Valley Orchard
Cannon Falls, MN


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Re: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

2010-02-11 Thread Michael Vaughn 
William,
I am a "rookie" start up planting a total of 2000 trees over 2 yrs.  This is
my second yr. I used guidance and lessons from Rutgers Ag Extension and Mr.
Win Cowgill.   I laid out my rows with a string line, sprayed Orange marker
paint on the ground down the line.  Then placed 'X's" every 3 feet.  at 30ft
intervals I used 5-6 treated posts driven into the ground via a pile driver
attached to a skid steer as support posts for the wire.   There are 10 trees
between posts planted via an auger digging the holes 18" Dia X 18" deep.
Then I strung the wire on the outside of the posts as you have indicated
and loosely supported the root stock via plastic clips to the wire. I am in
the Endless Mts area of Pennsylvannia where the wind is powerful and
frequent. I have had no injury so far against the wire.  By the way I have
nearly 100% survival to date of the trees planted.  All that bloomed within
2 weeks of planting produced blossoms and went through what appears to be a
normal seasonal cycle.  So much for year 1.
I am very interested in Organic production but have much to learn.   Slow
but sure!


On 2/11/10, Fleming, William  wrote:
>
> Nick, the way it works when you use a tractor drawn tree planter is the
> logical place for the trellis poles is in the groove made by the planter.
> If you attach the wire to the outside of the post with stapes the wire ends
> up half the post width out of line with the tree row.
> That usually ends up being the 3-4 inches you mentioned.
> Even if you don't use a planter better that the posts are in line with the
> tree row, wire will then be offset from the row.
>
> Other things I've learned:
> Rather than placing the trellis posts halfway between trees place them
> close to the tree. Depending on your tree spacing placing the post midway
> creates a small "dead space" that's harder to deal with for weed control.
> This is especially true if you're organic and using mechanical weed control
> but the post can also create a herbicide spray shadow.
> With the post close to the tree you end up with one extra small space and
> another space almost equal to your tree spacing.
>
> Using water to set the posts is the best method I've found. I made a tee
> shaped handle with 3/4" steel pipe, valve on the top of the tee.
> Since we were using 4-5" posts I attached a 6 inch long piece of 4" pipe at
> the bottom of the tee. It was cut, bent, and welded to a point with a 1/2"
> outlet at the bottom for the water to exit. Water at 80 psi from a sprayer
> is plenty. Volume is more important than pressure.
> With a two man crew we could set a very solid post in less than 30 seconds.
> One guy with the water, the other sets the post and plumbs it. You have to
> work very fast before soil suspended in the water settled, if it takes more
> than a second before the water drill is pulled out of the hole and the post
> is set it won't be as deep as you want.
> The way it worked seemed excellent to me. Rocks and gravel would settle at
> the bottom of the post hole creating good drainage for the post. The fine
> silt that settled out of the water rapidly set up almost like concrete.
> Much faster than an auger, less expense than a tractor mounted pounder.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bill Fleming
> Montana State University
> Western Ag Research Center
> 580 Quast Ln
> Corvallis, MT 59828
> (406)961-3025
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net]
> On Behalf Of Nick Lucking
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:49 PM
> To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
> Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis
>
> Bill,
>
> That's good to know.
>
> On that note, when I plant these new trees should they be planted
> directly inline with the trellis system?  Or be 2-3, or more inches
> off the wire initially?  Thanks for the help, my horticulture degree
> did not quite cover this!
>
> Nick Lucking
> Field Manager
> Cannon Valley Orchard
> Cannon Falls, MN
>
>
> --
>
> The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard
> <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon
> Clements .
>
> Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent
> "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for
> the content.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard
> <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon
> Clements .
>
> Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent
> "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for
> the content.
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Michael D. Vaughn
Owner / Manager
Pie-In-the-Sky Orchards

Re: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

2010-02-11 Thread Dave Rosenberger 

Hello, Ricardo --
	First, it would be helpful to know in what geographic area 
and/or climatic region you wish to grow organic fruit.  Options vary 
based on location, with disease control being MUCH simpler in arid 
production areas than in warm and humid production areas.
	I'm not certain that any pathologists have focused efforts on 
DISCOVERY of new products for organic tree fruit production.  Since 
the 1950's, pesticide discovery has been mostly left to commercial 
enterprises because university scientists are poorly equipped to 
register and commercialize new products.  Over the past 20 years, I 
am aware of perhaps a half dozen pathologists who have attempted to 
commercialize biocontrols, and most of these efforts have either 
gotten bogged down prior to commercialization or the final products 
were of such limited usefulness that they soon disappeared.
	However, I and several other pathologists at land grant 
institutions in the northeastern US have been EVALUATING new products 
for organic production over the past 15 years.  Generally, we have 
looked at any  promising candidates that gained EPA registrations, 
although I'm certain that there are some  things that no one has yet 
evaluated because the manufacturers have been unable to provide even 
a shred of evidence or logic as to why their products should work. 
Some of these university evaluations have been done in certified 
organic orchards and some have been done via replicated plot studies 
within larger trials that included other non-organic pesticides.
	I think we all know that sulfur, copper, and lime-sulfur are 
effective against various diseases on tree fruit, and OMRI-approved 
formulations of these old stand-bys are available. Some other OMRI 
approved products may have reasonable activity against powdery 
mildews, but so does sulfur.  Furthermore, mildews are usually only a 
minor part of the total disease picture for most tree fruit crops.
	Although there is a lot of advertising and hype about 
biocontrols and new organically acceptable products that will control 
fungal diseases, the simple fact is that we still have not identified 
any organically-acceptable fungicides are consistently effective for 
protecting apple leaves and fruit from fungal diseases (i.e., that 
work better than copper, sulfur, or lime-sulfur).  I'm less familiar 
with recent research on stone fruits, but I believe that the same 
statement would apply.  I know that some products such as Serenade 
are being used commercially, but most growers I speak to about these 
products either have no evidence of effectiveness (i.e., no 
controlled comparisons) or they admit that they include the 
biofungicides just to mollify certifying agencies even though they 
recognize that these products are relatively ineffective.
	If other readers have opinions and evidence that contradicts 
my perspectives, I'd certainly be interested in hearing about it.


Is anyone aware of plant pathologists who may be working on the 
development of fungicides suitable for organic production of tree 
fruits?


Thank you

Ricardo Menendez



--
** 
Dave Rosenberger

Professor of Plant PathologyOffice:  845-691-7231
Cornell University's Hudson Valley Lab  Fax:845-691-2719
P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528Cell: 845-594-3060
http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pp/faculty/rosenberger/



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Re: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

2010-02-11 Thread Ricardo 
Is anyone aware of plant pathologists who may be working on the development 
of fungicides suitable for organic production of tree fruits?


Thank you

Ricardo Menendez

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Clements .

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"official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for
the content.







--

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 and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon 
Clements .


Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent 
"official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for 
the content.

RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

2010-02-11 Thread Fleming, William 
Nick, the way it works when you use a tractor drawn tree planter is the logical 
place for the trellis poles is in the groove made by the planter.
If you attach the wire to the outside of the post with stapes the wire ends up 
half the post width out of line with the tree row.
That usually ends up being the 3-4 inches you mentioned. 
Even if you don't use a planter better that the posts are in line with the tree 
row, wire will then be offset from the row.

Other things I've learned:
Rather than placing the trellis posts halfway between trees place them close to 
the tree. Depending on your tree spacing placing the post midway creates a 
small "dead space" that's harder to deal with for weed control. This is 
especially true if you're organic and using mechanical weed control but the 
post can also create a herbicide spray shadow.
With the post close to the tree you end up with one extra small space and 
another space almost equal to your tree spacing.

Using water to set the posts is the best method I've found. I made a tee shaped 
handle with 3/4" steel pipe, valve on the top of the tee.
Since we were using 4-5" posts I attached a 6 inch long piece of 4" pipe at the 
bottom of the tee. It was cut, bent, and welded to a point with a 1/2" outlet 
at the bottom for the water to exit. Water at 80 psi from a sprayer is plenty. 
Volume is more important than pressure.
With a two man crew we could set a very solid post in less than 30 seconds. One 
guy with the water, the other sets the post and plumbs it. You have to work 
very fast before soil suspended in the water settled, if it takes more than a 
second before the water drill is pulled out of the hole and the post is set it 
won't be as deep as you want.
The way it worked seemed excellent to me. Rocks and gravel would settle at the 
bottom of the post hole creating good drainage for the post. The fine silt that 
settled out of the water rapidly set up almost like concrete. 
Much faster than an auger, less expense than a tractor mounted pounder.






Bill Fleming
Montana State University
Western Ag Research Center
580 Quast Ln
Corvallis, MT 59828
(406)961-3025

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On 
Behalf Of Nick Lucking
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:49 PM
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

Bill,

That's good to know.

On that note, when I plant these new trees should they be planted  
directly inline with the trellis system?  Or be 2-3, or more inches  
off the wire initially?  Thanks for the help, my horticulture degree  
did not quite cover this!

Nick Lucking
Field Manager
Cannon Valley Orchard
Cannon Falls, MN


--

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<http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon 
Clements .

Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent 
"official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for 
the content.







--

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Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent
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the content.

RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

2010-02-10 Thread Nick Lucking 

Bill,

That's good to know.

On that note, when I plant these new trees should they be planted  
directly inline with the trellis system?  Or be 2-3, or more inches  
off the wire initially?  Thanks for the help, my horticulture degree  
did not quite cover this!


Nick Lucking
Field Manager
Cannon Valley Orchard
Cannon Falls, MN


--

The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard 
 and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon 
Clements .


Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent 
"official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for 
the content.

RE: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

2010-02-10 Thread Fleming, William 
After years of trial and error I've found the metal clips are the only device 
that definitely will stay in place. I have only used the large size.
The tree will grow into the clip just as often as it grows into the trellis 
wire. I only used the clips at the top ten foot wire so wasn't concerned about 
girdling. Plastic tree tape did well on lower wires till the tree reached the 
top wire. Even with the trellis wire and clip completely grown into the tree it 
didn't seem to affect vigor even though it would be welcome high in the tree.

Only problem I've encountered is when it comes to tree removal if the tree has 
grown into the wire, it's not just a simple matter of unclipping the clip. 
Workers often had to carry wire cutters, loppers and a saw to release the tree. 
Problem is compounded if you want to reuse the trellis wire or leave it in 
place for the new trees.
Mistakes happen and the trellis wire can accidently get cut or the 
galvanization scraped off.

One way to get away from the problems is to use the metal clip to attach a 
stake, conduit, etc to the wire then tie the tree to the support.
Of course that involves the expense of a stake that can really add up with 
trees two feet apart.

Bill Fleming
Montana State University
Western Ag Research Center
580 Quast Ln
Corvallis, MT 59828
(406)961-3025

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On 
Behalf Of Nick Lucking
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 5:40 PM
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis

Hello everyone,

I see that the U clip is a popular item to attach B.9, M.9, etc.  
trees to a trellis.  Are you guys going with the larger version to  
allow for growth or is the smaller version better for this application?

Does anyone have any problems with the metal rubbing bark of the tree?

Thanks for the input,

Nick Lucking
Field Manager
Cannon Valley Orchard
Cannon Falls, MN


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The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard
 and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon
Clements .

Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent
"official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for
the content.