Re: [arch-general] lib -> usr/lib move, glibc and curl

[Jayesh Badwaik]

On Thursday 23 Aug 2012 01:28:58 Thomas Bächler wrote:
> BINARIES="pacman"
> FILES="/etc/pacman.conf /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist"
> 
> Then, edit /etc/mkinitcpio.d/linux.preset:
> 
> Add:
> 
> pacman_config="/etc/mkinitcpio-pacman.conf"
> pacman_image="/boot/initramfs-linux-pacman.img"
> 
> and add 'pacman' to the PRESETS line.

If this is done, would libcurl be automatically pulled into the initrd?

-- 
Cheers and Regards
Jayesh Badwaik
stop html mail  | always bottom-post
www.asciiribbon.org | www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html

[arch-general] Cannot chainload arch core.img from legacy GRUB installed in MBR.

[Juan R. de Silva]

While installing and configuring grub-bios files for my new Arch 
installation I followed GRUB2 wiki article.

In the section "Install grub-bios boot files" I opted to the option  
"Generate core.img alone" to "generate a /boot/grub/i386-pc/core.img file 
without embedding any grub-bios bootsector code in the MBR, post-MBR 
region, or the partition bootsector". 

At this point GRUB2 article says:"You can then chainload GRUB2's core.img 
from GRUB Legacy or syslinux as a Linux kernel or a multiboot kernel."

I also generated grub.cfg file as per GNOME2 wiki, though it was not 
totally clear to me why this step was required for "Generate core.img 
alone" option.

To chainload my new installation I entered the following lines in 
menu.lst 
of my Legacy GRUB installed in MBR:

title   Arch Linux 2012.8.04 (/dev/sda3)
root(hd0,2)
kernel  /boot/grub/i386-pc/core.img

While trying to chainload Arch my Legacy GRUB just hangs up displaying 
the last line without error messages.

Am I missing something, or the installation instructions are erroneous? 
Could somebody help me, please?

Thanks.

Re: [arch-general] Think twice before moving to systemd

[Denis A . Altoé Falqueto]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Sebastian Günther  wrote:
> * Felipe Contreras (felipe.contre...@gmail.com) [22.08.12 02:22]:
>> Funny that you say "around the same time", when it's clearly less than
>> 6 seconds, so it's 15% slower, but that's the second instance of kdm.
>> The first instance starts at 2s in 1000 hz, and 4s in 300 hz, so
>> there's *clearly* a big difference.
>
> So it's only needs twice the time with only on third of the ticks? Well
> that is awesome... Yeah to systemd!
>
> Anyway we are talking about 2 seconds...
> compared to time you wasted for a lot of people: It would have been
> better you had just saved all the delaying seconds for 100 boots and got
> a cup of coffee as normal users do when they boot their computer

In fact, the first kdm in the graphs is kdm.service unit that's being
loaded by systemd. The real kdm is started after every other
dependency is satisfied, around 6 or 7 seconds after boot. I don't
have initscripts anymore to make a comparison, but the time to get to
kdm was almost double the current time.

-- 
A: Because it obfuscates the reading.
Q: Why is top posting so bad?
For more information, please read: http://idallen.com/topposting.html

---
Denis A. Altoe Falqueto
Linux user #524555
---

Re: [arch-general] lib -> usr/lib move, glibc and curl

[Thomas Bächler]

Am 23.08.2012 00:54, schrieb Damjan:
>>> pacman -Syud --ignore glibc
>>>
>>> and ended in a broken package manager. pacman is linked against libcurl,
>>> which is compiled against glibc 2.16.0 and includes versioned symbols.
>>> Luckily I had an old curl package around to temporarily fix the
>>> problem and
>>> update the system.
>>>
>>> Others may be out of luck, so... Do you think this needs some more
>>> investigation?
>>
>> This is known, and I don't think we can properly fix it, at least not
>> anymore.
> 
> How about adding pacman to the default failsafe initramfs.
> That way, if anything goes wrong with a big update like this, one could
> finish it up from that initramfs.

Actually a neat idea. Copy mkinitcpio.conf to mkinitcpio-pacman.conf,
add this in mkinitcpio-pacman.conf:

BINARIES="pacman"
FILES="/etc/pacman.conf /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist"

Then, edit /etc/mkinitcpio.d/linux.preset:

Add:

pacman_config="/etc/mkinitcpio-pacman.conf"
pacman_image="/boot/initramfs-linux-pacman.img"

and add 'pacman' to the PRESETS line.




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [arch-general] lib -> usr/lib move, glibc and curl

[Matthew Monaco]

On 08/22/2012 03:54 PM, Damjan wrote:
>>> pacman -Syud --ignore glibc
>>>
>>> and ended in a broken package manager. pacman is linked against libcurl,
>>> which is compiled against glibc 2.16.0 and includes versioned symbols.
>>> Luckily I had an old curl package around to temporarily fix the problem and
>>> update the system.
>>>
>>> Others may be out of luck, so... Do you think this needs some more
>>> investigation?
>>
>> This is known, and I don't think we can properly fix it, at least not
>> anymore.
> 
> How about adding pacman to the default failsafe initramfs.
> That way, if anything goes wrong with a big update like this, one could finish
> it up from that initramfs.
> 
> 

Feel free to do that yourself. I don't want my initrd's to be rescue images as
well. And if I did, there'd be a whole bunch of other stuff I'd want too. I have
at least one system where I only allocated 32 MB for /boot (my bad, but don't
feel like fixing any time soon), and don't need the default initrd to grow. In
fact, I've never had a problem that fallback would fix and would rather not even
have it...

I'd be in favor of a "rescue" hook though that someone may optionally add.

Re: [arch-general] lib -> usr/lib move, glibc and curl

[Damjan]

pacman -Syud --ignore glibc

and ended in a broken package manager. pacman is linked against libcurl,
which is compiled against glibc 2.16.0 and includes versioned symbols.
Luckily I had an old curl package around to temporarily fix the problem and
update the system.

Others may be out of luck, so... Do you think this needs some more
investigation?


This is known, and I don't think we can properly fix it, at least not
anymore.


How about adding pacman to the default failsafe initramfs.
That way, if anything goes wrong with a big update like this, one could 
finish it up from that initramfs.



--
дамјан

Re: [arch-general] Arch Linux and systemd

[Kevin Chadwick]

> > I do this all the time with buildroot; udev is a choice, and I often
> > have trouble compiling it because it depends on so many things, like
> > specific kernel configurations, and certain toolchain options. The
> > fact of the matter is that udev doesn't do much for me,
> > CONFIG_DEVTMPFS=y and CONFIG_DEVTMPFS_MOUNT=y does most of the job,
> > the rest is loading the right modules at boot time, which can be done
> > with a simple script. There's also mdev from busybox, but it's too
> > simple, I don't really understand what is the point of it.  
> 
> Looks like i need to do some catching up ;-).

Udev used to do a lot more but a lot of it's functionality was taken
into the kernel for a more sane design and after much constructive
flaming ;-). It's on lwn.net.


-- 
___

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)
___

Re: [arch-general] Some funny bloke - 2

[Sebastian Günther]

* Kwpolska (kwpol...@gmail.com) [22.08.12 10:19]:
> 
> Were* and it's not likely.  Anyone can happily send you a message like
> that.  You just need to POST email=ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net
> login-unsub=Unsubscribe to
> http://mailman.archlinux.org/mailman/options/arch-general (and you can
> send a billion requests automatically by curl.)

Curl? http? for a mailing list?

Put this in an appropriate loop in a bash script:

echo "whatever" | mail -r ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net -s unsubscribe 
arch-general-requ...@archlinux.org 

no need to fiddle with POST 

Sebastian

-- 
 " Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. "  |   _   ASCII ribbon campaign 
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 SEB@STI@N GÜNTHER   |   X   against M$ attachments
 mailto:a...@teageek.de  |  / \   www.asciiribbon.org  


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Re: [arch-general] Think twice before moving to systemd

[ludovic coues]

2012/8/22 Sebastian Günther :
> * Felipe Contreras (felipe.contre...@gmail.com) [22.08.12 02:22]:
>> Funny that you say "around the same time", when it's clearly less than
>> 6 seconds, so it's 15% slower, but that's the second instance of kdm.
>> The first instance starts at 2s in 1000 hz, and 4s in 300 hz, so
>> there's *clearly* a big difference.
>
> So it's only needs twice the time with only on third of the ticks? Well
> that is awesome... Yeah to systemd!
>
> Anyway we are talking about 2 seconds...
> compared to time you wasted for a lot of people: It would have been
> better you had just saved all the delaying seconds for 100 boots and got
> a cup of coffee as normal users do when they boot their computer
>
> Sebastian
>
> P.S.: sorry for feeding the trolls, but I simply could not resist...
>
> --
>  " Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. "  |   _   ASCII ribbon campaign
>   Karl Marx  |  ( )   against HTML e-mail
>  SEB@STI@N GÜNTHER   |   X   against M$ attachments
>  mailto:a...@teageek.de  |  / \   www.asciiribbon.org

Where is that time where computer could take up to thirty seconds to boot up ?

-- 

Cordialement, Coues Ludovic
06 148 743 42
--
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments

Re: [arch-general] Think twice before moving to systemd

[Sebastian Günther]

* Felipe Contreras (felipe.contre...@gmail.com) [22.08.12 02:22]:
> Funny that you say "around the same time", when it's clearly less than
> 6 seconds, so it's 15% slower, but that's the second instance of kdm.
> The first instance starts at 2s in 1000 hz, and 4s in 300 hz, so
> there's *clearly* a big difference.

So it's only needs twice the time with only on third of the ticks? Well 
that is awesome... Yeah to systemd!

Anyway we are talking about 2 seconds...
compared to time you wasted for a lot of people: It would have been 
better you had just saved all the delaying seconds for 100 boots and got 
a cup of coffee as normal users do when they boot their computer

Sebastian

P.S.: sorry for feeding the trolls, but I simply could not resist...

-- 
 " Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. "  |   _   ASCII ribbon campaign 
  Karl Marx  |  ( )   against HTML e-mail  
 SEB@STI@N GÜNTHER   |   X   against M$ attachments
 mailto:a...@teageek.de  |  / \   www.asciiribbon.org  


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Re: [arch-general] /etc/dbus-1/systemd/cups.conf and /usr/lib/systemd/system/cups.socket files

[Myra Nelson]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Tom Gundersen  wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Myra Nelson  wrote:
>> After my research on sysvinit, the simple version, I'm working my way
>> through systemd. Two things I noticed about the cups configuration:
>>
>> 1: The cups.conf file in /etc/dbus-1/systemd reads
>
> Notice that this should have been "system.d" and not "systemd". These
> are the dbus configuration files (for the system bus), and not the
> systemd ones.
>
>> > 1.0//EN"
>>  "http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/dbus/1.0/busconfig.dtd";>
>> 
>>   
>>   
>> 
>>   
>>
>>   
>>   
>> 
>>   
>> 
>>
>> Do the allow send and allow receive interfaces need to be changed, or
>> is this taken into account by the rest of systemd?
>
> Sorry that I can't help you with more details, don't know cups/dbus that well.
>
>> 2. The /usr/lib/systemd/system/cups.socket reads
>> [Unit]
>> Description=CUPS Printing Service Sockets
>>
>> [Socket]
>> ListenStream=/var/run/cups/cups.sock
>> ListenStream=631
>> ListenDatagram=0.0.0.0:631
>> BindIPv6Only=ipv6-only
>>
>> [Install]
>> WantedBy=sockets.target
>
> Again, I don't know much about CUPS, so can't answer your question.
> However, just in case it was not clear, the above socket  file gives
> you:
>
> # ss -l -u -t | grep ipp
> udpUNCONN 0  0*:ipp   *:*
> tcpLISTEN 0  128 :::ipp  :::*
>
> Where the tcp socket only accepts ipv6 connections. Please see
> systemd.socket(5) and ipv6(7) for more details.
>
>> With the
>> newer version of cups depending on avahi and the differences in the
>> avahi hosts file and the hosts file, avahi uses gandalf.local while
>> hosts still uses .localdomain.
>
> Not sure I got this last bit. Avahi defaults to using the "local"
> domain, but this can be configured if you prefer something else (at
> least I seem to remember doing that at some point).
>
> HTH,
>
> Tom

Cool. I was just trying to make both the domains come out the same.
I've tried it both ways, but can't get cups to work between the two
boxes. Let me rephrase that. I have the printer set up on my SO's box
and working. Then sudo firefox localhost:631, find/discover printers,
finds the printer, attempt to connect and test the printer with a test
page, "error can't find printer at arwen.localdomain". The pemissions
on her box are about as lenient as you can get "Allow all" everywhere.

Since all my network connections are static, and all the documentation
I've ever read pointed to setting up the hosts file at 127.0.0.1
localhost.localdomain localhost gandalf and ::01
localhost.localdomain, and after reading the LWN article, I thought
that might be the problem hence my question. On to more research.

Thanks for you time and assistance.

Myra

-- 
Life's fun when your sick and psychotic!

Re: [arch-general] SystemD poll

[Andrew Hills]

Felipe--if I may address you by your first name--in case you're
confused about why no one will listen to your arguments, let me
try to explain; it may reduce your frustration. You made the
following two statements without any evidence or even any
suggestion that you care about evidence:

> But supposing there was something before, I'm
> sure the people that made the transition did it in a responsible
> manner trying hard not to break anything.
...
> I can probably point to dozens of
> problems that systemd has that initscripts doesn't (today). That's
> enough reason to hold on the move.

Additionally, your tendency to overgeneralize leads to such FUD as:

> What's the purpose of a distro that doesn't even work?

Your only rational arguments have been nitpicks such as your
recent response to Sven-Hendrik Haase, which I will not quote here.
So, you are aggravating those who will bother to respond to you, but
not really providing compelling arguments for those who are looking
for a helpful discussion. I stayed out of this thread until I just couldn't
take any more of your nonsense.

At least, though, no one can accuse you of straying from the topic,
since this entire thread began with a huge steaming pile of FUD-
loaded question-begging tripe. I would say I don't mean to pick on
you, but you're really annoying, and I wish you would stop posting
until you have something to contribute to the discussion, or at the
very, very least, point out some problem with systemd that stems
from systemd itself and not a perceived problem that exists only
because it is different than what you have right now.

--Andrew Hills

Re: [arch-general] dovecot postfix + mysql

[Jean-Luc Bassereau]

Le Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:24:16 +0300
Δημήτρης Ζέρβας <01tto...@gmail.com> a écrit :

> sorry, domain_path :)
> 
> guys thank you very much for all the help and patience! :)

Just happy for you that everything works well now :-)

Re: [arch-general] Arch Linux and systemd

[Guus Snijders]

Op 22 aug. 2012 14:07 schreef "Felipe Contreras" 
het volgende:
>
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Guus Snijders 
wrote:
> > Op 22 aug. 2012 10:59 schreef "Kevin Chadwick" 
het
> > volgende:
> >>
>
> > How about creating a vm with
> > Arch and getting an alternative to udev running?
>
> I do this all the time with buildroot; udev is a choice, and I often
> have trouble compiling it because it depends on so many things, like
> specific kernel configurations, and certain toolchain options. The
> fact of the matter is that udev doesn't do much for me,
> CONFIG_DEVTMPFS=y and CONFIG_DEVTMPFS_MOUNT=y does most of the job,
> the rest is loading the right modules at boot time, which can be done
> with a simple script. There's also mdev from busybox, but it's too
> simple, I don't really understand what is the point of it.

Looks like i need to do some catching up ;-). Udev has worked fine for me,
so my interest is mostly academic.

Just in case, it's always good to learn about alternatives.

Thanks.
mvg, Guus

Re: [arch-general] Libreoffice Impress 3.5.6-1 - problems opening *.ppt

[Lorenzo Bandieri]

2012/8/22 Lukas Jirkovsky :
> On 22 August 2012 14:43, Lorenzo Bandieri  wrote:
>> Yesterday I upgraded Libreoffice from 3.5.5-1 to 3.5.6-1, and I
>> started to notice problems opening several *.ppt files.
(snip)
>
> This happened to me less than five minutes ago. Unfortunately I don't
> have any solution.
>
> Lukas

Hi Lukas,

Thanks for your answer :) For me downgrading to the previous version
solves this problem completely. This seems a bug upstream - I'll
investigate this as soon as I have time (apparently I have to install
the debug package).

2012/8/22 Michal Kawalec :
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 02:43:29PM +0200, Lorenzo Bandieri wrote:
>> Yesterday I upgraded Libreoffice from 3.5.5-1 to 3.5.6-1, and I
>> started to notice problems opening several *.ppt files. When I double
>> click on the ppt, an "ASCII Filter Options" popup appears - I never
>
> I have exactly the same problem - I assumed that there was something
> wrong with the ppts, but I double checked and it still isn't working.

Hi Michal,
Thanks for your answer :) This was the first thing I thought, but it
happens with every ppt I tried, while the same files open without
problems in LibreOffice 3.5.5-1.

Regards,

Lorenzo

Re: [arch-general] /etc/dbus-1/systemd/cups.conf and /usr/lib/systemd/system/cups.socket files

[Tom Gundersen]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Myra Nelson  wrote:
> After my research on sysvinit, the simple version, I'm working my way
> through systemd. Two things I noticed about the cups configuration:
>
> 1: The cups.conf file in /etc/dbus-1/systemd reads

Notice that this should have been "system.d" and not "systemd". These
are the dbus configuration files (for the system bus), and not the
systemd ones.

>  1.0//EN"
>  "http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/dbus/1.0/busconfig.dtd";>
> 
>   
>   
> 
>   
>
>   
>   
> 
>   
> 
>
> Do the allow send and allow receive interfaces need to be changed, or
> is this taken into account by the rest of systemd?

Sorry that I can't help you with more details, don't know cups/dbus that well.

> 2. The /usr/lib/systemd/system/cups.socket reads
> [Unit]
> Description=CUPS Printing Service Sockets
>
> [Socket]
> ListenStream=/var/run/cups/cups.sock
> ListenStream=631
> ListenDatagram=0.0.0.0:631
> BindIPv6Only=ipv6-only
>
> [Install]
> WantedBy=sockets.target

Again, I don't know much about CUPS, so can't answer your question.
However, just in case it was not clear, the above socket  file gives
you:

# ss -l -u -t | grep ipp
udpUNCONN 0  0*:ipp   *:*
tcpLISTEN 0  128 :::ipp  :::*

Where the tcp socket only accepts ipv6 connections. Please see
systemd.socket(5) and ipv6(7) for more details.

> With the
> newer version of cups depending on avahi and the differences in the
> avahi hosts file and the hosts file, avahi uses gandalf.local while
> hosts still uses .localdomain.

Not sure I got this last bit. Avahi defaults to using the "local"
domain, but this can be configured if you prefer something else (at
least I seem to remember doing that at some point).

HTH,

Tom

Re: [arch-general] Libreoffice Impress 3.5.6-1 - problems opening *.ppt

[Michal Kawalec]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 02:43:29PM +0200, Lorenzo Bandieri wrote:
> Yesterday I upgraded Libreoffice from 3.5.5-1 to 3.5.6-1, and I
> started to notice problems opening several *.ppt files. When I double
> click on the ppt, an "ASCII Filter Options" popup appears - I never

I have exactly the same problem - I assumed that there was something
wrong with the ppts, but I double checked and it still isn't working.


pgp36254mhEGa.pgp
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[arch-general] /etc/dbus-1/systemd/cups.conf and /usr/lib/systemd/system/cups.socket files

[Myra Nelson]

After my research on sysvinit, the simple version, I'm working my way
through systemd. Two things I noticed about the cups configuration:

1: The cups.conf file in /etc/dbus-1/systemd reads

http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/dbus/1.0/busconfig.dtd";>

  
  

  

  
  

  


Do the allow send and allow receive interfaces need to be changed, or
is this taken into account by the rest of systemd?

2. The /usr/lib/systemd/system/cups.socket reads
[Unit]
Description=CUPS Printing Service Sockets

[Socket]
ListenStream=/var/run/cups/cups.sock
ListenStream=631
ListenDatagram=0.0.0.0:631
BindIPv6Only=ipv6-only

[Install]
WantedBy=sockets.target

What is the recommended best practice for dealing with this when you
have no access to IPv6? Our satellite console supports IPv4 only so
previously everything has been set up on 192.168.???.??. With the
newer version of cups depending on avahi and the differences in the
avahi hosts file and the hosts file, avahi uses gandalf.local while
hosts still uses .localdomain.

https://lwn.net/Articles/485617/

I'm not trying to be dense here, but some of this seems to be at cross
purposes. That or this is something sysadmins on large systems do all
the time and those of us with small installations haven't had to deal
with yet.

As with some of my other posts, trashing systemd etc and those behind
it accomplishes nothing. If you can't say anything constructive, STFU.

I apologize for offending anyone, but this would be easier with out
all the BS, and I don't mean bikeshed.

Myra


-- 
Life's fun when your sick and psychotic!

Re: [arch-general] Libreoffice Impress 3.5.6-1 - problems opening *.ppt

[Lukas Jirkovsky]

On 22 August 2012 14:43, Lorenzo Bandieri  wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Yesterday I upgraded Libreoffice from 3.5.5-1 to 3.5.6-1, and I
> started to notice problems opening several *.ppt files. When I double
> click on the ppt, an "ASCII Filter Options" popup appears - I never
> saw this popup before. Anyway, I have to click "Ok" for Libreoffice to
> start importing the presentation. The problem is that after this
> operation is completed, Libreoffice doesn't show the *.ppt as usual;
> instead, the window remains blank for a long time, and I have to force
> quit. I tried this with several *.ppt files (at first I thought about
> a corrupted file), and this happened with every one. Downgrading the
> package to 3.5.5.1 solves the issue, and the files are displayed fine.
> Now, I'm not sure if this 'ASCII Filter Options' thing is a feature or
> a bug. Is anyone else seeing this? I didn't find anything related on
> the forum.
>
> Thanks for your time,
>
> Lorenzo

This happened to me less than five minutes ago. Unfortunately I don't
have any solution.

Lukas

Re: [arch-general] SystemD poll

[fredbezies]

2012/8/22 Brandon Watkins :
[Felipe Contreras FUD]
>
> Umm, the fact thats its been the default init system in several popular
> distros already? Fedora 15+ , Opensuse 12.1 , Mageia 2, Mandriva 2011... I
> don't know why you keep hanging onto this idea that systemd is "untested"
> or "unproven", because it isn't. In fact its already been fairly well
> tested on arch, plenty of arch users are using it already.

It is just FUD, nothing less, nothing more. I switched to systemd-only
a few days ago, and so far, so good.

Just ignore FUD spreading people like Felipe. And all will be better.

-- 
Frederic Bezies
fredbez...@gmail.com

Re: [arch-general] SystemD poll

[Felipe Contreras]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Brandon Watkins  wrote:

> Umm, the fact thats its been the default init system in several popular
> distros already? Fedora 15+ ,

In Fedora they didn't just went from sysv style scripts to full blown
systemd with all their features. They did it gradually in order to
minimize the potential problems. In fact, they still haven't fully
finished the conversion:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SysVtoSystemd (60% done)

And yet they hit tons of bugs, and they still have a lot of them:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&order=Importance&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&component=systemd&classification=Fedora

I moved away from Fedora in part because systemd made my system not
boot 70% of the time.

> Opensuse 12.1

In OpenSUSE as well the move was supposed to happen before 12.1, but
they constantly hit issues, and they kept delaying it. And afterwards
they still have a lot of issues:

https://bugzilla.novell.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__open__&product=&content=systemd

> don't know why you keep hanging onto this idea that systemd is "untested"
> or "unproven", because it isn't.

I never said such a thing. Can you please read what I say?

There's a difference between something being "tested" (there's
different degrees of testing, and the results, and the degrees of
certainty in the results), and something being "stable enough to be
used" (there's different degrees of certainty).

Apparently there's no choice of words that can transmit what I am
actually trying to say to you.

Cheers.

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: [arch-general] Arch Linux and systemd

[Andre Goree]

On 08/22/2012 10:46 AM, Jakob Herrmann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> \begin{quote{}
> Add as the poll shows: More Arch users(80%) agree with upstream for
> this change.
> \end{quote}
> Source?...And which poll? I don't remember that some has been opened.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jakob
> 

It was a poll started by a member in another thread on this list (titled
"SystemD poll")

Here is the link:
http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=502d2113e4b02c3adb09a939

-- 
Andre Goree
an...@drenet.info

[arch-general] secondary dns with zone transfer

[Δημήτρης Ζέρβας]

is there any free secondary dns provider that supports zone transfer?
BTW: well, this is kind of off topic as it hasn't to do with arch, but help
is needed... :P
thanks in advance!

-- 
(\_ /) copy the bunny to your profile
(0.o ) to help him achieve world domination.
(> <) come join the dark side.
/_|_\ (we have cookies.)

Re: [arch-general] SystemD poll

[Brandon Watkins]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Felipe Contreras <
felipe.contre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 4:23 AM, Sven-Hendrik Haase 
> wrote:
> > On 22.08.2012 02:48, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 2:32 AM, Sven-Hendrik Haase 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 22.08.2012 02:10, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> 
>
>  Switching to systemd is not a small change, it's a revolutionary
>  change, with the potential to break many people's boot (it has broken
>  things in Fedora, and openSUSE, and it's happening in Arch Linux as
>  well). So, a sensible person would wait until a sensible time to make
>  the big switch (which is clearly not now).
> 
> >>> Arch is not sensible in the conservative sense. Being conservative here
> >>> means waiting for others to make the software more stable. This is not
> >>> really what Arch is about. We regularly move to software that is
> >>> just-about-enough stable to be used. As far as I am concerned, systemd
> is
> >>> at
> >>> that point since I was able to convert my laptop to it without any
> >>> problems
> >>> at all.
> >>
> >> So if it works for you, it will surely work for *everybody* else. I
> >> have seen this argument so many times that I'm starting to worry about
> >> the rationality of Arch Linux users and developers.
> >
> > I said "As far as I am concerned, systemd is at that point since I was
> able
> > to convert my laptop to it without any problems at all."
>
> In other words:
>
> "I was able to convert my laptop to systemd without any problems"
> Therefore: "systemd is stable enough to be used"
>
> > You say I somehow
> > said something along the lines of "As far as I am concerned, systemd is
> at
> > that point since I was able to convert my laptop to it without any
> problems
> > at all so it will surely work for *everybody* else."
>
> You didn't say systemd is at the point where "*I* am able to use it",
> you implied that systemd is at the point where it is stable enough to
> be used (in general).
>
> * "systemd is at that point"
> * "We regularly move to software that is just-about-enough stable to be
> used."
>
> If this is not what you intended to say, then it seems like a red herring.
>
> Can we then agree then that you don't *know* if systemd is stable
> enough to be used (in general, not only by you)?
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
> Felipe Contreras
>
Umm, the fact thats its been the default init system in several popular
distros already? Fedora 15+ , Opensuse 12.1 , Mageia 2, Mandriva 2011... I
don't know why you keep hanging onto this idea that systemd is "untested"
or "unproven", because it isn't. In fact its already been fairly well
tested on arch, plenty of arch users are using it already.

Re: [arch-general] Arch Linux and systemd

[Jakob Herrmann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

\begin{quote{}
Add as the poll shows: More Arch users(80%) agree with upstream for
this change.
\end{quote}
Source?...And which poll? I don't remember that some has been opened.

Cheers,
Jakob
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Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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Re: [arch-general] dovecot postfix + mysql

[Δημήτρης Ζέρβας]

sorry, domain_path :)

guys thank you very much for all the help and patience! :)
-- 
(\_ /) copy the bunny to your profile
(0.o ) to help him achieve world domination.
(> <) come join the dark side.
/_|_\ (we have cookies.)



On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Δημήτρης Ζέρβας <01tto...@gmail.com> wrote:

> problem solved:
> postfix would store the emails in /home/vmail/
> dovecot would read the emails from /home/vmail//
> the solution is to change in /etc/webapps/postfixadmin/config.inc.php from:
> $CONF['domain_in_mailbox'] = 'NO';
> to:
> $CONF['domain_in_mailbox'] = 'YES';
>
>
> --
> (\_ /) copy the bunny to your profile
> (0.o ) to help him achieve world domination.
> (> <) come join the dark side.
> /_|_\ (we have cookies.)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Δημήτρης Ζέρβας <01tto...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> well, I can se all the emails in /home/vmail/
>> t...@dimitrisze.com/new/numbers_numbers.ns1!
>> strange 1:
>> I have 2 paths:
>> /home/vmail/t...@dimitrisze.com
>> /home/vmail/dimitrisze.com/t...@dimitrisze.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> (\_ /) copy the bunny to your profile
>> (0.o ) to help him achieve world domination.
>> (> <) come join the dark side.
>> /_|_\ (we have cookies.)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Δημήτρης Ζέρβας <01tto...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> yes, you were right :P
>>> ug 21 16:46:19 localhost postfix/smtpd[12628]: connect from
>>> oiujoidjwiodjwodij.net[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
>>> Aug 21 16:47:16 localhost postfix/trivial-rewrite[12643]: warning: do
>>> not list domain dimitrisze.com in BOTH mydestination and
>>> virtual_mailbox_domains
>>> Aug 21 16:47:16 localhost postfix/smtpd[12628]: 64A403FC9C: client=
>>> ijdoijdoijwdoiwjdoj.net[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
>>> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/cleanup[12701]: 64A403FC9C:
>>> message-id=<>
>>> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/qmgr[6410]: 64A403FC9C: from=<
>>> t...@test.com>, size=220, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>>> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/trivial-rewrite[12643]: warning: do
>>> not list domain dimitrisze.com in BOTH mydestination and
>>> virtual_mailbox_domains
>>> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/virtual[12710]: 64A403FC9C: to=<
>>> t...@dimitrisze.com>, relay=virtual, delay=53, delays=53/0.01/0/0.01,
>>> dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)
>>> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/qmgr[6410]: 64A403FC9C: removed
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> (\_ /) copy the bunny to your profile
>>> (0.o ) to help him achieve world domination.
>>> (> <) come join the dark side.
>>> /_|_\ (we have cookies.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:50 AM, Jean-Luc Bassereau >> > wrote:
>>>
 Le Wed, 22 Aug 2012 00:39:27 +0300
 Δημήτρης Ζέρβας <01tto...@gmail.com> a écrit :

 > O.o nothing!
 >
 > WTF?

 Can you try to grep my "t...@test.com" in your logfile ?

>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [arch-general] dovecot postfix + mysql

[Δημήτρης Ζέρβας]

problem solved:
postfix would store the emails in /home/vmail/
dovecot would read the emails from /home/vmail//
the solution is to change in /etc/webapps/postfixadmin/config.inc.php from:
$CONF['domain_in_mailbox'] = 'NO';
to:
$CONF['domain_in_mailbox'] = 'YES';

-- 
(\_ /) copy the bunny to your profile
(0.o ) to help him achieve world domination.
(> <) come join the dark side.
/_|_\ (we have cookies.)



On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Δημήτρης Ζέρβας <01tto...@gmail.com> wrote:

> well, I can se all the emails in /home/vmail/
> t...@dimitrisze.com/new/numbers_numbers.ns1!
> strange 1:
> I have 2 paths:
> /home/vmail/t...@dimitrisze.com
> /home/vmail/dimitrisze.com/t...@dimitrisze.com
>
>
> --
> (\_ /) copy the bunny to your profile
> (0.o ) to help him achieve world domination.
> (> <) come join the dark side.
> /_|_\ (we have cookies.)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Δημήτρης Ζέρβας <01tto...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> yes, you were right :P
>> ug 21 16:46:19 localhost postfix/smtpd[12628]: connect from
>> oiujoidjwiodjwodij.net[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
>> Aug 21 16:47:16 localhost postfix/trivial-rewrite[12643]: warning: do not
>> list domain dimitrisze.com in BOTH mydestination and
>> virtual_mailbox_domains
>> Aug 21 16:47:16 localhost postfix/smtpd[12628]: 64A403FC9C: client=
>> ijdoijdoijwdoiwjdoj.net[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
>> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/cleanup[12701]: 64A403FC9C:
>> message-id=<>
>> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/qmgr[6410]: 64A403FC9C: from=<
>> t...@test.com>, size=220, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/trivial-rewrite[12643]: warning: do not
>> list domain dimitrisze.com in BOTH mydestination and
>> virtual_mailbox_domains
>> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/virtual[12710]: 64A403FC9C: to=<
>> t...@dimitrisze.com>, relay=virtual, delay=53, delays=53/0.01/0/0.01,
>> dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)
>> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/qmgr[6410]: 64A403FC9C: removed
>>
>>
>> --
>> (\_ /) copy the bunny to your profile
>> (0.o ) to help him achieve world domination.
>> (> <) come join the dark side.
>> /_|_\ (we have cookies.)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:50 AM, Jean-Luc Bassereau 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Le Wed, 22 Aug 2012 00:39:27 +0300
>>> Δημήτρης Ζέρβας <01tto...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>>
>>> > O.o nothing!
>>> >
>>> > WTF?
>>>
>>> Can you try to grep my "t...@test.com" in your logfile ?
>>>
>>
>>
>

[arch-general] Libreoffice Impress 3.5.6-1 - problems opening *.ppt

[Lorenzo Bandieri]

Hi everyone,

Yesterday I upgraded Libreoffice from 3.5.5-1 to 3.5.6-1, and I
started to notice problems opening several *.ppt files. When I double
click on the ppt, an "ASCII Filter Options" popup appears - I never
saw this popup before. Anyway, I have to click "Ok" for Libreoffice to
start importing the presentation. The problem is that after this
operation is completed, Libreoffice doesn't show the *.ppt as usual;
instead, the window remains blank for a long time, and I have to force
quit. I tried this with several *.ppt files (at first I thought about
a corrupted file), and this happened with every one. Downgrading the
package to 3.5.5.1 solves the issue, and the files are displayed fine.
Now, I'm not sure if this 'ASCII Filter Options' thing is a feature or
a bug. Is anyone else seeing this? I didn't find anything related on
the forum.

Thanks for your time,

Lorenzo

Re: [arch-general] SystemD poll

[Felipe Contreras]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 4:23 AM, Sven-Hendrik Haase  wrote:
> On 22.08.2012 02:48, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 2:32 AM, Sven-Hendrik Haase 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 22.08.2012 02:10, Felipe Contreras wrote:


 Switching to systemd is not a small change, it's a revolutionary
 change, with the potential to break many people's boot (it has broken
 things in Fedora, and openSUSE, and it's happening in Arch Linux as
 well). So, a sensible person would wait until a sensible time to make
 the big switch (which is clearly not now).

>>> Arch is not sensible in the conservative sense. Being conservative here
>>> means waiting for others to make the software more stable. This is not
>>> really what Arch is about. We regularly move to software that is
>>> just-about-enough stable to be used. As far as I am concerned, systemd is
>>> at
>>> that point since I was able to convert my laptop to it without any
>>> problems
>>> at all.
>>
>> So if it works for you, it will surely work for *everybody* else. I
>> have seen this argument so many times that I'm starting to worry about
>> the rationality of Arch Linux users and developers.
>
> I said "As far as I am concerned, systemd is at that point since I was able
> to convert my laptop to it without any problems at all."

In other words:

"I was able to convert my laptop to systemd without any problems"
Therefore: "systemd is stable enough to be used"

> You say I somehow
> said something along the lines of "As far as I am concerned, systemd is at
> that point since I was able to convert my laptop to it without any problems
> at all so it will surely work for *everybody* else."

You didn't say systemd is at the point where "*I* am able to use it",
you implied that systemd is at the point where it is stable enough to
be used (in general).

* "systemd is at that point"
* "We regularly move to software that is just-about-enough stable to be used."

If this is not what you intended to say, then it seems like a red herring.

Can we then agree then that you don't *know* if systemd is stable
enough to be used (in general, not only by you)?

Cheers.

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: [arch-general] dovecot postfix + mysql

[Δημήτρης Ζέρβας]

well, I can se all the emails in /home/vmail/
t...@dimitrisze.com/new/numbers_numbers.ns1!
strange 1:
I have 2 paths:
/home/vmail/t...@dimitrisze.com
/home/vmail/dimitrisze.com/t...@dimitrisze.com

-- 
(\_ /) copy the bunny to your profile
(0.o ) to help him achieve world domination.
(> <) come join the dark side.
/_|_\ (we have cookies.)



On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Δημήτρης Ζέρβας <01tto...@gmail.com>wrote:

> yes, you were right :P
> ug 21 16:46:19 localhost postfix/smtpd[12628]: connect from
> oiujoidjwiodjwodij.net[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
> Aug 21 16:47:16 localhost postfix/trivial-rewrite[12643]: warning: do not
> list domain dimitrisze.com in BOTH mydestination and
> virtual_mailbox_domains
> Aug 21 16:47:16 localhost postfix/smtpd[12628]: 64A403FC9C: client=
> ijdoijdoijwdoiwjdoj.net[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/cleanup[12701]: 64A403FC9C: message-id=<>
> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/qmgr[6410]: 64A403FC9C: from=<
> t...@test.com>, size=220, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/trivial-rewrite[12643]: warning: do not
> list domain dimitrisze.com in BOTH mydestination and
> virtual_mailbox_domains
> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/virtual[12710]: 64A403FC9C: to=<
> t...@dimitrisze.com>, relay=virtual, delay=53, delays=53/0.01/0/0.01,
> dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to maildir)
> Aug 21 16:47:23 localhost postfix/qmgr[6410]: 64A403FC9C: removed
>
>
> --
> (\_ /) copy the bunny to your profile
> (0.o ) to help him achieve world domination.
> (> <) come join the dark side.
> /_|_\ (we have cookies.)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:50 AM, Jean-Luc Bassereau 
> wrote:
>
>> Le Wed, 22 Aug 2012 00:39:27 +0300
>> Δημήτρης Ζέρβας <01tto...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>
>> > O.o nothing!
>> >
>> > WTF?
>>
>> Can you try to grep my "t...@test.com" in your logfile ?
>>
>
>

Re: [arch-general] Arch Linux and systemd

[Felipe Contreras]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Guus Snijders  wrote:
> Op 22 aug. 2012 10:59 schreef "Kevin Chadwick"  het
> volgende:
>>

> Kevin, you seem to be fairly advanced user. How about creating a vm with
> Arch and getting an alternative to udev running?

I do this all the time with buildroot; udev is a choice, and I often
have trouble compiling it because it depends on so many things, like
specific kernel configurations, and certain toolchain options. The
fact of the matter is that udev doesn't do much for me,
CONFIG_DEVTMPFS=y and CONFIG_DEVTMPFS_MOUNT=y does most of the job,
the rest is loading the right modules at boot time, which can be done
with a simple script. There's also mdev from busybox, but it's too
simple, I don't really understand what is the point of it.

But there's certainly people that don't use udev at all:
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev

Cheers.

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: [arch-general] Arch Linux and systemd

[Felipe Contreras]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 6:22 AM, Leon Feng  wrote:
> 2012/8/22 Felipe Contreras :

>> Maybe, maybe not, but is it the right choice *now*? That's the question.
>
> Some upstream package are start to require systemd support. Udev,
> Polkit is just an example.

And I say this is extremely bad news. Make GTK+ depend on GNOME, and
guess what will happen: people will stop using GTK+ (or fork it). Make
PolicyKit depend on systemd and people will stop using it.

I for one look forward to alternatives to udev, systemd and Polkit
(and all the packages that depend on systemd).

And let's remember that not every Arch Linux user uses Polkit (right?).

> This is not Arch decision. It is the decision made by upstream. Arch
> just follow the trend.
> Add as the poll shows: More Arch users(80%) agree with upstream for this 
> change.

Yes, they agree with the change, but the poll doesn't ask *when* this
change should happen.

> There are indeed some corner cases that systemd not support. This is
> exact the reason Arch should encourage users to try systemd out. If
> there is indeed problem, they can just remove init= kernel parameter
> and report it, wait for it been fixed.

Yes, people should be trying systemd *now*, but what happens if in the
small percentage of users that are doing this you can already see
problems? This should hint that the move to make it the default should
be delayed for *later*.

Cheers.

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: [arch-general] systemd-readahead

[Kevin Chadwick]

> OK, thanks both.  I don't really have time to look into it properly, but now 
> I 
> know it's definitely something to do with my setup.  I'll just let this one 
> go 
> for now.

I have a fedora system which I use for a task but I installed fedora on
awhile ago just to find out about systemd and it's default selinux
policies. I don't think it applies to your issue but there is quite a
lot of seemingly pointless error message pollution from systemd in the
logs and fedoras had systemd for ages.

-- 
___

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)
___

Re: [arch-general] SystemD poll

[Felipe Contreras]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 3:03 AM, Denis A. Altoé Falqueto
 wrote:

> You know that all this jibber-jabber could be easily avoided if you
> just asked for help or opened bug reports, don't you?

As I said multiple times, and even directly to you: I did, and even
Lennart was unable to help. But even if I didn't happen to have any
problems, that doesn't meant the rest of the people won't.

But I already explained that to you, I have given up on you, I'm
simply stating it again for the record.

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: [arch-general] systemd-readahead

[Paul Gideon Dann]

On Wednesday 22 Aug 2012 11:48:08 John K Pate wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 11:27:07 +0100
> I do, set up in the completely straightforward way:
> 
> # systemctl enable systemd-readahead-collect.service
> # systemctl enable systemd-readahead-replay.service
> 
> I didn't do anything special, and it works fine:
> 
> $ ls -l /.readahead
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 17377 Aug 22 09:30 /.readahead

OK, thanks both.  I don't really have time to look into it properly, but now I 
know it's definitely something to do with my setup.  I'll just let this one go 
for now.

Thanks for the info,
Paul

Re: [arch-general] systemd-readahead

[Denis A . Altoé Falqueto]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 7:27 AM, Paul Gideon Dann  wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Does anyone know if system-readahead is supposed to work in our current
> package?  For me, there is an error message during boot (something about an
> event being too large to process), and there is no /.readahead file created.
> systemctl also reports a non-zero exit status, but no log entry, and I can't
> find the actual error message in the journal or dmesg.
>
> Does someone have this working?

Can you post the exact error message and the point where it happens? I
have read ahead enabled and the file /.readahread is there. I just
followed Arch's wiki on systemd.

-- 
A: Because it obfuscates the reading.
Q: Why is top posting so bad?
For more information, please read: http://idallen.com/topposting.html

---
Denis A. Altoe Falqueto
Linux user #524555
---

Re: [arch-general] systemd-readahead

[John K Pate]

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 11:27:07 +0100
Paul Gideon Dann  wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> Does anyone know if system-readahead is supposed to work in our current 
> package?  For me, there is an error message during boot (something about an 
> event being too large to process), and there is no /.readahead file created.  
> systemctl also reports a non-zero exit status, but no log entry, and I can't 
> find the actual error message in the journal or dmesg.
> 
> Does someone have this working?

I do, set up in the completely straightforward way:

# systemctl enable systemd-readahead-collect.service 
# systemctl enable systemd-readahead-replay.service

I didn't do anything special, and it works fine:

$ ls -l /.readahead 
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 17377 Aug 22 09:30 /.readahead

-- 
John K Pate http://jkpate.net/

The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

Re: [arch-general] systemd-readahead

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2012-08-22 at 12:39 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> system-readahead

Apologize, I'm a dyslexic :). read a head vs readhat for me :(. I'm
serious.

Re: [arch-general] systemd-readahead

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2012-08-22 at 11:27 +0100, Paul Gideon Dann wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Does anyone know if system-readahead is supposed to work in our current 
> package?  For me, there is an error message during boot (something about an 
> event being too large to process), and there is no /.readahead file created.  
> systemctl also reports a non-zero exit status, but no log entry, and I can't 
> find the actual error message in the journal or dmesg.
> 
> Does someone have this working?
> 
> Paul

Wow, is it Red Hat or Arch?
I really wonder that commercial stuff as Novell and RedHat becomes
important for really free stuff :(. Please let us-american commerce
become part of every thing of our lives :(.

It's really hard to be quiet :(.

Re: [arch-general] Arch Linux and systemd

[Kevin Chadwick]

> Kevin, you seem to be fairly advanced user. How about creating a vm with
> Arch and getting an alternative to udev running?

Seems is probably the right word. We are all fools fiddling in the dark
to some degree with different ground covered. Some of us have more
powerful torches and some keep to the lit roads more ;-)

You might find this hard to believe and maybe arch wasn't the
best choice (but not too bad so far) but a large reason of coming to
Arch was to reduce my time spent on admin and not increase it and I
can't afford any time at the moment. I don't really have an issue with
udev, it breaks little and is perfectly replaceable. Build time will
increase now but more options will become more prominent or it will fork
if it isn't suitably maintained. The kernel is unlikely to break
anything :-) on purpose or for a long time atleast.

-- 
___

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)
___

[arch-general] systemd-readahead

[Paul Gideon Dann]

Hello all,

Does anyone know if system-readahead is supposed to work in our current 
package?  For me, there is an error message during boot (something about an 
event being too large to process), and there is no /.readahead file created.  
systemctl also reports a non-zero exit status, but no log entry, and I can't 
find the actual error message in the journal or dmesg.

Does someone have this working?

Paul

Re: [arch-general] Arch Linux and systemd

[Guus Snijders]

Op 22 aug. 2012 10:59 schreef "Kevin Chadwick"  het
volgende:
>
> > > "We", is me and the people that don't like the systemd+udev beast, and
> > > they are a lot.
> >
> > Huh?  I've never seen any complaints about udev before you.  Mind you,
> > udev is around since 2003.
>
> Actually it's completely different to back in 2003 because of huge
> amounts of complaints. Check lwn.net
>
> >  It was merged into systemd's source, but
> > it's not a problem to use it without running systemd.  Otherwise your
> > system won't run, don't you think?  Udev provides /dev after all...
> > Wikipedia says you can use something else, but libudev itself is in
> > use.
>
> Where's the link, does it mean for dynamic /dev otherwise that's
> completely wrong and libudev != udev/systemd.

Kevin, you seem to be fairly advanced user. How about creating a vm with
Arch and getting an alternative to udev running?
Should be an interesting experiment.
Same goes for (for example) openrc.

When it's working reliable for you, it should be easy enough to create some
packages.

In the case of init scripts, a very nice add-on would be to parse systemd's
ini files (either 'live' or once). That way it would be a very easy
transition for users already running systemd.

For the record: this is meant as an encouragement. I would be very
interested in things like this and be willing to help out.
Perhaps more people on this list feel the same way.

mvg, Guus

Re: [arch-general] Michael Kohlhaas

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2012-08-22 at 11:31 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Kohlhaas
> 
> Perhaps this helps. I'm a Don Quixote myself. I don't know how known
> Michael Kohlhaas is in other countries, but Germany.
> 
> Please, stop all discussions about systemd. It's better for you blood
> pressure.
> 
> No joke, I own an
> http://www.docmorris.de/images/3159451_b.jpg;jsessionid=855AD7284858349B54BF7CCE125B8B8B.node1
> Really, it's measurable.
> 
> It's not Linux because I need to measure my blood pressure ;), but I've
> got the gear at hand.
> 
> ;)
> 
> :p
> 
> :D
> 
> Since I'm not involved in this discussion, I feel much better,
> measurable better!
> 
> Hth ;),
> Ralf
> 

At the beginning I was involved. Sorry for my broken English.

[arch-general] Michael Kohlhaas

[Ralf Mardorf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Kohlhaas

Perhaps this helps. I'm a Don Quixote myself. I don't know how known
Michael Kohlhaas is in other countries, but Germany.

Please, stop all discussions about systemd. It's better for you blood
pressure.

No joke, I own an
http://www.docmorris.de/images/3159451_b.jpg;jsessionid=855AD7284858349B54BF7CCE125B8B8B.node1
Really, it's measurable.

It's not Linux because I need to measure my blood pressure ;), but I've
got the gear at hand.

;)

:p

:D

Since I'm not involved in this discussion, I feel much better,
measurable better!

Hth ;),
Ralf

Re: [arch-general] Arch Linux and systemd

[Kevin Chadwick]

> > "We", is me and the people that don't like the systemd+udev beast, and
> > they are a lot.  
> 
> Huh?  I've never seen any complaints about udev before you.  Mind you,
> udev is around since 2003.

Actually it's completely different to back in 2003 because of huge
amounts of complaints. Check lwn.net

>  It was merged into systemd's source, but
> it's not a problem to use it without running systemd.  Otherwise your
> system won't run, don't you think?  Udev provides /dev after all...
> Wikipedia says you can use something else, but libudev itself is in
> use.

Where's the link, does it mean for dynamic /dev otherwise that's
completely wrong and libudev != udev/systemd.


-- 
___

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)
___

Re: [arch-general] [Bulk] Re: SystemD poll

[Kevin Chadwick]

> >
> > Please, refrain from just flaming. If you want help, ask for it.
> > Otherwise, just shut up.
> >  
> +1
-1


If anyone started the flaming it was those ignoring his main arguments
and pointlessly responding. A recurring theme. He may have responded to
those rediculous arguments in annoyance when he shouldn't have and which
is easily done.

Who knows maybe RedHat will use upstart after it has a more reliable
interface added in a years time. It certainly wouldn't fragment the
Linux and Unix communities and efforts so much.


Be aware Felipe that very few developers have made any comment on the
subject publically and the few that have shows devs on both sides of the
argument. Users have supposedly swaded the argument through attrition
but I don't believe this for one second. I don't know how devs thought
that saying arguing against systemd serves us right in getting systemd
would help quieten the list down but anyway. Tom has made his decision
and at the end of the day unless someone takes up his initscript mantle
or switches to another init like openrc and gets the packagers or users
to cooperate then we are stuck maintaining our own startups or
switching.



-- 
___

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)
___

Re: [arch-general] Some funny bloke - 2

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2012-08-22 at 10:19 +0200, Kwpolska wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Ralf Mardorf
>  wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-08-22 at 01:06 +0200, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> >> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 5:43 AM, Oon-Ee Ng  wrote:
> >> > On 17 Aug 2012 06:42, "Anthony ''Ishpeck'' Tedjamulia" <
> >> > archli...@ishpeck.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 09:29:26PM +, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> >> >> > Just received a second bogus 'unsubscribe confirmation request'.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This begins to look like stalking. The request was sent from
> >> >> > anonymouse.org, so whoever is doing this is a miserable coward
> >> >> > apart from whatever else.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> It was especially hurtful for me. QQ
> >> >>
> >> >> I've done my very best to stay focused on the actual software
> >> >> and the argumentation of their merits.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > Could those receiving these emails please speak out? I haven't, for one.
> >> > Not that much can be done about it..
> >>
> >> I have received about 30 of them, all from 74.63.112.146.
> >>
> >
> > Where they all faked? I only received one and it wasn't a fake.
> >
> 
> Were* and it's not likely.  Anyone can happily send you a message like
> that.  You just need to POST email=ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net
> login-unsub=Unsubscribe to
> http://mailman.archlinux.org/mailman/options/arch-general (and you can
> send a billion requests automatically by curl.)
> 

Yes and seemingly somebody likes to add fuel to the fire :(. The systemd
discussion comes to an end, so nobody should send such mails to people,
that are still involved to this discussion(s). Sending 30 mails to
Felipe is impertinent. If somebody shouldn't like Felipe, than this
person should learn how to use the filters of the MUA.

It's psychopathologically to send 30 mails of that kind. This person
needs professional help.

Regards,
Ralf

Re: [arch-general] Some funny bloke - 2

[Kwpolska]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Ralf Mardorf
 wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-08-22 at 01:06 +0200, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 5:43 AM, Oon-Ee Ng  wrote:
>> > On 17 Aug 2012 06:42, "Anthony ''Ishpeck'' Tedjamulia" <
>> > archli...@ishpeck.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 09:29:26PM +, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
>> >> > Just received a second bogus 'unsubscribe confirmation request'.
>> >> >
>> >> > This begins to look like stalking. The request was sent from
>> >> > anonymouse.org, so whoever is doing this is a miserable coward
>> >> > apart from whatever else.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> It was especially hurtful for me. QQ
>> >>
>> >> I've done my very best to stay focused on the actual software
>> >> and the argumentation of their merits.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Could those receiving these emails please speak out? I haven't, for one.
>> > Not that much can be done about it..
>>
>> I have received about 30 of them, all from 74.63.112.146.
>>
>
> Where they all faked? I only received one and it wasn't a fake.
>

Were* and it's not likely.  Anyone can happily send you a message like
that.  You just need to POST email=ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net
login-unsub=Unsubscribe to
http://mailman.archlinux.org/mailman/options/arch-general (and you can
send a billion requests automatically by curl.)

-- 
Kwpolska 
stop html mail  | always bottom-post
www.asciiribbon.org | www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
GPG KEY: 5EAAEA16

Re: [arch-general] Arch Linux and systemd

[Kwpolska]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 2:54 AM, Felipe Contreras
 wrote:
> "We", is me and the people that don't like the systemd+udev beast, and
> they are a lot.

Huh?  I've never seen any complaints about udev before you.  Mind you,
udev is around since 2003.  It was merged into systemd's source, but
it's not a problem to use it without running systemd.  Otherwise your
system won't run, don't you think?  Udev provides /dev after all...
Wikipedia says you can use something else, but libudev itself is in
use.

-- 
Kwpolska 
stop html mail  | always bottom-post
www.asciiribbon.org | www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
GPG KEY: 5EAAEA16

Re: [arch-general] Virtualbox Linux guest performance very slow

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2012-08-22 at 08:58 +0200, Sven-Hendrik Haase wrote:
> On 22.08.2012 08:57, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > Hi :)
> >
> > the host is an Arch Linux 64bit install. I run Windows XP 32bit as
> > guest, getting a very good, fast performance.
> >
> >
> > I installed Fedora 17 64bit as guest and the performance is slow, the
> > mouse cursor is moving in slow motion. Is there anything I can do to get
> > a better performance?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ralf
> >
> > PS: I also will install a backup of my Arch Linux as guest and then
> > switch to systemd for this guest ;) ;) ;) ;) ;). At the moment I got
> > caught in playing with LVM for the Fedora install, since I never used it
> > before, but systemd will be the next experiment.
> >
> Install the guest additions. If you had an Arch guest you could simply 
> install them using pacman.

I have to laugh about myself. I guess I already installed guest
additions to the host's Arch Linux :D. Some days ago the weather in
Germany was unbearable and at that time I installed it. Thank you and I
apologize that I didn't think about the guest additions myself.

I guess I should install them for the guest ;).

:D
Ralf