Re: [arch-general] kde and systemd [was Re: [arch-dev-public] merging systemd back to a singular package]
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 10:39 +0100, Peter Cannon wrote: >> Oh and as a side note a rolling release means it rolls, >> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/roll if it stops because of a >> breakage or a change in file structure or manipulation that then means >> it is not rolling it has come to a halt. Just wanted to add that for >> those I keep seeing on the net saying "It's a rolling release what do >> you expect?" Judd Vincent meant "You'll never have to upgrade because >> every pacman- Syu gives you the most recent version." ergo 'It's >> rolled over to the latest. If a package breaks your system that's fair >> enough, if changing the file structure or core of your system breaks >> it that has nothing to do with 'rolling' that's called "I just ripped >> the wires out of your radio but hey you get to keep all the parts." >> just wanted to clarify that. > > Is Arch a rolling release or isn't it? It's as rolling as a rolling distro can get. The fact that a rolling release system uses the word "rolling" doesn't qualify the release with every possible meaning of that word In the case of a distribution, it means that we don't get updates for old versions of software, just for the newest version some packager had the motivation to provide. So, it is very distant from the real meaning of "rolling". Unless we'll now receive our updates on a DVD down a hill and it comes rolling to the bottom... :P -- A: Because it obfuscates the reading. Q: Why is top posting so bad? For more information, please read: http://idallen.com/topposting.html --- Denis A. Altoe Falqueto Linux user #524555 ---
Re: [arch-general] kde and systemd [was Re: [arch-dev-public] merging systemd back to a singular package]
On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 07:18 -0600, Anthony ''Ishpeck'' Tedjamulia wrote: > On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 06:36:22PM +0200, Joakim Hernberg wrote: > > A distro fork would be the absolute worst outcome imaginable (imo) of > > the initscripts vs systemd schism... > > Assuming you mean a fork of Arch, I agree. [snip] And I agree with the following statement: On Wed, 2012-08-29 at 10:39 +0100, Peter Cannon wrote: > Oh and as a side note a rolling release means it rolls, > http://www.thefreedictionary.com/roll if it stops because of a > breakage or a change in file structure or manipulation that then means > it is not rolling it has come to a halt. Just wanted to add that for > those I keep seeing on the net saying "It's a rolling release what do > you expect?" Judd Vincent meant "You'll never have to upgrade because > every pacman- Syu gives you the most recent version." ergo 'It's > rolled over to the latest. If a package breaks your system that's fair > enough, if changing the file structure or core of your system breaks > it that has nothing to do with 'rolling' that's called "I just ripped > the wires out of your radio but hey you get to keep all the parts." > just wanted to clarify that. Is Arch a rolling release or isn't it?
Re: [arch-general] kde and systemd [was Re: [arch-dev-public] merging systemd back to a singular package]
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 06:36:22PM +0200, Joakim Hernberg wrote: > A distro fork would be the absolute worst outcome imaginable (imo) of > the initscripts vs systemd schism... Assuming you mean a fork of Arch, I agree. But consider ArchHURD downstream. They'll have no choice but to do something different.
Re: [arch-general] kde and systemd [was Re: [arch-dev-public] merging systemd back to a singular package]
On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 23:45:04 +0800 Rashif Ray Rahman wrote: > Having libpulse or systemd "live" on your system isn't going to do any > harm while you're adapting to the change. There's always a way to do > what you want, and there's always another KISS operating system. Given > the resistance that I see, I'm almost sure a separate initscripits > project (or a distro fork if necessary) is inevitable. A distro fork would be the absolute worst outcome imaginable (imo) of the initscripts vs systemd schism... --- Joakim
Re: [arch-general] kde and systemd [was Re: [arch-dev-public] merging systemd back to a singular package]
On 28 August 2012 16:01, Joakim Hernberg wrote: > On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 08:55:06 +0200 > Joakim Hernberg wrote: > >> $ pacman -Qi shows me that kdebase-workspace depends on consolekit, >> which in turn depends on polkit. The above comment seems to suggest >> that kde will soon depend on systemd. > > Maybe I should add that I think this support is only needed by KDE for > powermanagement and automounting of media. So conceivably one could > live without it if necessary :) In fact, many Archers have lived without these things for years ever since they became mandatory for the masses. Especially those on WMs. These are the purists, so to say. I don't see systemd or anything like that becoming a problem. The purists will find their way to keep these things out. Having libpulse or systemd "live" on your system isn't going to do any harm while you're adapting to the change. There's always a way to do what you want, and there's always another KISS operating system. Given the resistance that I see, I'm almost sure a separate initscripits project (or a distro fork if necessary) is inevitable. -- GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1
Re: [arch-general] kde and systemd [was Re: [arch-dev-public] merging systemd back to a singular package]
> But who knows, I can imagine > that there are so many old time linux users that would hate installing > something like systemd even if they use kde as DE. With a bit of luck > someone willl step up and maintain an alternative to consolekit/polkit > that doesn't require systemd. In most cases there is no need. Consolekit controls sessions for xfce, the first thing I turn off and easily replaced. -- ___ 'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface' (Doug McIlroy) ___
Re: [arch-general] kde and systemd [was Re: [arch-dev-public] merging systemd back to a singular package]
Am 28.08.2012 04:16, schrieb Shridhar Daithankar: > On Monday 27 Aug 2012 11:30:46 AM Joakim Hernberg wrote: >> On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:48:32 +0200 >> >> Thomas Bächler wrote: >>> But this only concerns the booting itself. As consolekit is >>> unmaintained, polkit will soon depend on systemd. The next Gnome >>> version will require systemd - more to come. >> >> I don't run gnome, but kde is just as bad in this case :( > > care to elaborate? > > I have always used KDE. Now I am using it with systemd but AFAIK it does not > mandate anything systemd specific. You can build polkit with either consolekit or systemd support, but not with support for both. consolekit is unmaintained for a while and thus we will switch to building polkit with systemd support instead. Once that happens, you need systemd for certain aspects of KDE to function properly (most prominently, mounting removable file systems). signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [arch-general] kde and systemd [was Re: [arch-dev-public] merging systemd back to a singular package]
On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 08:55:06 +0200 Joakim Hernberg wrote: > $ pacman -Qi shows me that kdebase-workspace depends on consolekit, > which in turn depends on polkit. The above comment seems to suggest > that kde will soon depend on systemd. Maybe I should add that I think this support is only needed by KDE for powermanagement and automounting of media. So conceivably one could live without it if necessary :) -- Joakim -- Joakim Hernberg
Re: [arch-general] kde and systemd [was Re: [arch-dev-public] merging systemd back to a singular package]
On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 07:46:30 +0530 Shridhar Daithankar wrote: > On Monday 27 Aug 2012 11:30:46 AM Joakim Hernberg wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:48:32 +0200 > > > > Thomas Bächler wrote: > > > But this only concerns the booting itself. As consolekit is > > > unmaintained, polkit will soon depend on systemd. The next Gnome > > > version will require systemd - more to come. > > > > I don't run gnome, but kde is just as bad in this case :( > > care to elaborate? > > I have always used KDE. Now I am using it with systemd but AFAIK it > does not mandate anything systemd specific. > > GNOME OTOH forces you to use pulseaudio : $ pacman -Qi shows me that kdebase-workspace depends on consolekit, which in turn depends on polkit. The above comment seems to suggest that kde will soon depend on systemd. But who knows, I can imagine that there are so many old time linux users that would hate installing something like systemd even if they use kde as DE. With a bit of luck someone willl step up and maintain an alternative to consolekit/polkit that doesn't require systemd. --- Joakim -- Joakim Hernberg
[arch-general] kde and systemd [was Re: [arch-dev-public] merging systemd back to a singular package]
On Monday 27 Aug 2012 11:30:46 AM Joakim Hernberg wrote: > On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:48:32 +0200 > > Thomas Bächler wrote: > > But this only concerns the booting itself. As consolekit is > > unmaintained, polkit will soon depend on systemd. The next Gnome > > version will require systemd - more to come. > > I don't run gnome, but kde is just as bad in this case :( care to elaborate? I have always used KDE. Now I am using it with systemd but AFAIK it does not mandate anything systemd specific. GNOME OTOH forces you to use pulseaudio :P -- Regards Shridhar
