Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[Ram Kumar via arch-general]

Wow,.. Nice to hear that Dorian. Thank you

On Sun, 26 May 2019, 10:56 pm Dorian C via arch-general, <
arch-general@archlinux.org> wrote:

> I wouldn't install it any other way. I'm using a samsung pro ssd, install
> date was 3-15-2015 no issues whatsoever, on a 2009 HP 8200 elite mind you,
> so i'm guessing my pc will go before my ssd. Proper partition alignment is
> essential for optimal performance and longevity, also check this out:
> arch_solid_state_drive
> 
>
>
> On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:49 AM Giancarlo Razzolini via arch-general <
> arch-general@archlinux.org> wrote:
>
> > Em maio 22, 2019 12:42 Daurnimator escreveu:
> > > On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 01:34, Giancarlo Razzolini via arch-general
> > >  wrote:
> > >> Just don't enable discards at the fs mount options and you should be
> > fine. Install
> > >> and enable the fstrim.timer so it runs once a week, which is enough.
> > >
> > > Oh? Why is this?
> > > I've had both enabled for multiple years now.
> > >
> >
> > On NVMe Intel recommends to no have continuous discards at the fs level:
> >
> > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_state_drive/NVMe#Discards
> >
> > Regards,
> > Giancarlo Razzolini
>

Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[Dorian C via arch-general]

I wouldn't install it any other way. I'm using a samsung pro ssd, install
date was 3-15-2015 no issues whatsoever, on a 2009 HP 8200 elite mind you,
so i'm guessing my pc will go before my ssd. Proper partition alignment is
essential for optimal performance and longevity, also check this out:
arch_solid_state_drive



On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:49 AM Giancarlo Razzolini via arch-general <
arch-general@archlinux.org> wrote:

> Em maio 22, 2019 12:42 Daurnimator escreveu:
> > On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 01:34, Giancarlo Razzolini via arch-general
> >  wrote:
> >> Just don't enable discards at the fs mount options and you should be
> fine. Install
> >> and enable the fstrim.timer so it runs once a week, which is enough.
> >
> > Oh? Why is this?
> > I've had both enabled for multiple years now.
> >
>
> On NVMe Intel recommends to no have continuous discards at the fs level:
>
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_state_drive/NVMe#Discards
>
> Regards,
> Giancarlo Razzolini

Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[Ram Kumar via arch-general]

Oh!.. these features are also available??!!!.. great yeah..

On Thu, 23 May 2019, 2:18 pm Ralf Mardorf via arch-general, <
arch-general@archlinux.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 23 May 2019 09:01:49 +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> >The SSD drive also reports its own personal view of lifetime remaining
> >and other interesting statistics using
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T%2E.
> >
> >173 Ave_Block-Erase_Count   -O--CK   095   095   000-77
> >202 Percent_Lifetime_Remain CK   095   095   001-5
> >
> >`smartctl -x /dev/sda', for example, can gather the data.
>
> Only if it's in the data base.
>
> [root@archlinux rocketmouse]# smartctl -x /dev/sda | grep 'Vendor
> Specific SMART Attributes' -A 11
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME  FLAGSVALUE WORST THRESH FAIL RAW_VALUE
>   9 Power_On_Hours  -O--C-   100   100   000-16224
>  12 Power_Cycle_Count   -O--C-   100   100   000-581
> 167 Unknown_Attribute   -O---K   100   100   000-0
> 168 Unknown_Attribute   -O--C-   100   100   000-0
> 169 Unknown_Attribute   PO   100   100   010-0
> 173 Unknown_Attribute   -O--C-   161   161   000-0
> 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count -O--C-   100   100   000-149
> 194 Temperature_Celsius PO---K   073   065   020-27 (Min/Max
> 10/35)
> 241 Total_LBAs_Written  -O--CK   100   100   000-287072
> ||_ K auto-keep
>
> For the SSDs on my machine I'm using "ocz-ssd-utility" to get erase
> count, lifetime percentage and other SMART information, let alone that
> I could update the firmware, while the SSDs are used.
>

Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[Ralf Mardorf via arch-general]

On Thu, 23 May 2019 09:01:49 +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
>The SSD drive also reports its own personal view of lifetime remaining
>and other interesting statistics using
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T%2E.
>
>173 Ave_Block-Erase_Count   -O--CK   095   095   000-77
>202 Percent_Lifetime_Remain CK   095   095   001-5
>
>`smartctl -x /dev/sda', for example, can gather the data.

Only if it's in the data base.

[root@archlinux rocketmouse]# smartctl -x /dev/sda | grep 'Vendor Specific 
SMART Attributes' -A 11
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME  FLAGSVALUE WORST THRESH FAIL RAW_VALUE
  9 Power_On_Hours  -O--C-   100   100   000-16224
 12 Power_Cycle_Count   -O--C-   100   100   000-581
167 Unknown_Attribute   -O---K   100   100   000-0
168 Unknown_Attribute   -O--C-   100   100   000-0
169 Unknown_Attribute   PO   100   100   010-0
173 Unknown_Attribute   -O--C-   161   161   000-0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count -O--C-   100   100   000-149
194 Temperature_Celsius PO---K   073   065   020-27 (Min/Max 10/35)
241 Total_LBAs_Written  -O--CK   100   100   000-287072
||_ K auto-keep

For the SSDs on my machine I'm using "ocz-ssd-utility" to get erase
count, lifetime percentage and other SMART information, let alone that
I could update the firmware, while the SSDs are used.

Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi David,

> In normal desktop/laptop use, you rarely write more than 1-2GB a day
> on average -- so that would translate into a 190-95 year wear-life for
> the drive under normal use. Even at 10GB a day, that would be a 19
> year life for the drive.

The SSD drive also reports its own personal view of lifetime remaining
and other interesting statistics using
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T%2E.

173 Ave_Block-Erase_Count   -O--CK   095   095   000-77
202 Percent_Lifetime_Remain CK   095   095   001-5

`smartctl -x /dev/sda', for example, can gather the data.

-- 
Cheers, Ralph.

Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[Ram Kumar via arch-general]

Excelent, thanks

Now my next immediate task will be to install Arch on Ssd and begin using
it...

On Thu, 23 May 2019, 9:47 am David C. Rankin, <
drankina...@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:

> On 05/22/2019 10:12 PM, Ram Kumar via arch-general wrote:
> > Nice,
> > Thanks a lot guys. My first job for tomorrow will be to install Arch on
> my
> > laptop.
> >
> > can you explain me a little detail on that rewrite stuff?, i am slightly
> > confused
>
>   Sure, here is a good article that explains it:
>
> How Long do SSDs Really Last?
> https://www.ontrack.com/blog/2018/02/07/how-long-do-ssds-really-last/
>
>   You can find many more similar articles, and if you find the old
> (pre-2015)
> ones, you will see the fear they had on exceeding the cell write limits.
> SSD's
> have improved significantly, and the cell re-write issue has gone away for
> the
> most part.
>
>   As mentioned in the article to hit the lifetime of a 250GB drive in one
> year, you would need to re-write 190GB per-day, every day, for the entire
> year.
>
>   In normal desktop/laptop use, you rarely write more than 1-2GB a day on
> average -- so that would translate into a 190-95 year wear-life for the
> drive
> under normal use. Even at 10GB a day, that would be a 19 year life for the
> drive.
>
>   So based on those figures, you would install Arch with your choice of
> desktop, use it for the day, delete everything and repeat the
> install/delete
> every day for 10 years and still be fine.
>
> --
> David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
>

Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[David C. Rankin]

On 05/22/2019 10:12 PM, Ram Kumar via arch-general wrote:
> Nice,
> Thanks a lot guys. My first job for tomorrow will be to install Arch on my
> laptop.
> 
> can you explain me a little detail on that rewrite stuff?, i am slightly
> confused

  Sure, here is a good article that explains it:

How Long do SSDs Really Last?
https://www.ontrack.com/blog/2018/02/07/how-long-do-ssds-really-last/

  You can find many more similar articles, and if you find the old (pre-2015)
ones, you will see the fear they had on exceeding the cell write limits. SSD's
have improved significantly, and the cell re-write issue has gone away for the
most part.

  As mentioned in the article to hit the lifetime of a 250GB drive in one
year, you would need to re-write 190GB per-day, every day, for the entire year.

  In normal desktop/laptop use, you rarely write more than 1-2GB a day on
average -- so that would translate into a 190-95 year wear-life for the drive
under normal use. Even at 10GB a day, that would be a 19 year life for the 
drive.

  So based on those figures, you would install Arch with your choice of
desktop, use it for the day, delete everything and repeat the install/delete
every day for 10 years and still be fine.

-- 
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.

Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[Ram Kumar via arch-general]

Nice,
Thanks a lot guys. My first job for tomorrow will be to install Arch on my
laptop.

can you explain me a little detail on that rewrite stuff?, i am slightly
confused

On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 01:41, David C. Rankin <
drankina...@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:

> On 05/22/2019 10:27 AM, Ram Kumar via arch-general wrote:
> > I bought a new laptop that has NVMe ssd on it. I would like to install
> Arch
> > on that, is there any precautions that i need to take? Also i would like
> to
> > get feedback from Archers who already tried this.
>
> Drive it like you stole it!
>
> No special precautions needed for SSD anymore. The old write-limitations
> have
> all but disappeared. Samsungs 3/5 year warranties presume a 60% daily
> rewrite
> of the drive (so for a 1T drive, that's 600GB of daily writes assumed)
>
> Like 11 sec boots from OFF to Full Desktop? They are pretty amazing
> compared
> to platter. Have large builds (like rebuilding php or KDE). Compile times
> now
> a fraction of what they were with platter drives.
>
> See https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_state_drive for TRIM or
> fstrim
> configs/consideration.
>
> --
> David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
>

Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[David C. Rankin]

On 05/22/2019 10:27 AM, Ram Kumar via arch-general wrote:
> I bought a new laptop that has NVMe ssd on it. I would like to install Arch
> on that, is there any precautions that i need to take? Also i would like to
> get feedback from Archers who already tried this.

Drive it like you stole it!

No special precautions needed for SSD anymore. The old write-limitations have
all but disappeared. Samsungs 3/5 year warranties presume a 60% daily rewrite
of the drive (so for a 1T drive, that's 600GB of daily writes assumed)

Like 11 sec boots from OFF to Full Desktop? They are pretty amazing compared
to platter. Have large builds (like rebuilding php or KDE). Compile times now
a fraction of what they were with platter drives.

See https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_state_drive for TRIM or fstrim
configs/consideration.

-- 
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.

Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[mike lojkovic via arch-general]

Just follow the arch wiki on nvme. It's probably not optimal for your
specific ssd, but it's close enough.

On Wed, May 22, 2019, 10:49 AM Giancarlo Razzolini via arch-general <
arch-general@archlinux.org> wrote:

> Em maio 22, 2019 12:42 Daurnimator escreveu:
> > On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 01:34, Giancarlo Razzolini via arch-general
> >  wrote:
> >> Just don't enable discards at the fs mount options and you should be
> fine. Install
> >> and enable the fstrim.timer so it runs once a week, which is enough.
> >
> > Oh? Why is this?
> > I've had both enabled for multiple years now.
> >
>
> On NVMe Intel recommends to no have continuous discards at the fs level:
>
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_state_drive/NVMe#Discards
>
> Regards,
> Giancarlo Razzolini

Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[Giancarlo Razzolini via arch-general]

Em maio 22, 2019 12:42 Daurnimator escreveu:

On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 01:34, Giancarlo Razzolini via arch-general
 wrote:

Just don't enable discards at the fs mount options and you should be fine. 
Install
and enable the fstrim.timer so it runs once a week, which is enough.


Oh? Why is this?
I've had both enabled for multiple years now.



On NVMe Intel recommends to no have continuous discards at the fs level:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_state_drive/NVMe#Discards

Regards,
Giancarlo Razzolini

pgpK3eLKj4inK.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[Daurnimator]

On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 01:34, Giancarlo Razzolini via arch-general
 wrote:
> Just don't enable discards at the fs mount options and you should be fine. 
> Install
> and enable the fstrim.timer so it runs once a week, which is enough.

Oh? Why is this?
I've had both enabled for multiple years now.

Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[Giancarlo Razzolini via arch-general]

Em maio 22, 2019 12:27 Ram Kumar via arch-general escreveu:

Hello fellow Archers,
I bought a new laptop that has NVMe ssd on it. I would like to install Arch
on that, is there any precautions that i need to take? Also i would like to
get feedback from Archers who already tried this.



Just don't enable discards at the fs mount options and you should be fine. 
Install
and enable the fstrim.timer so it runs once a week, which is enough.

Other than that it is like any other install, only, much faster.

Regards,
Giancarlo Razzolini

pgpFp0BD6HnAn.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [arch-general] Arch on NVMe ssd

[Genes Lists via arch-general]

On 5/22/19 11:27 AM, Ram Kumar via arch-general wrote:

I have been using arch on laptops with SSDs for a few years with no
issues whatsoever. Other than the UEFI vfat partition I use ext4 for
everything. It "just works" with no problems at all.

gene