Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general]

You are right, I shall not follow drama up on comments like these.

If a message looks malicious I shall simply skip reading it, and 
silently filter re-incident people.

Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Emil Lundberg via arch-general]

On 2019-10-15 14:23, Fabian Piribauer via arch-general wrote:
> It's debetable if calling a idea stupid is rude, but just cutting off
> all communication because you feel offended is not the way to go. If he
> really wanted to improve things, he should have noted the tone as side
> note after adressing the mentoined issues with his proposal.

Agreed.

/Emil

Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Fabian Piribauer via arch-general]

> On 2019-10-14 17:22, Doug Newgard via arch-general wrote:
> > On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 17:17:09 +0200
> > Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general  wrote:
> >
> >> Robin Broda:
> >>> This is universally stupid.  
> >> abrasiveness = blockage
> >>
> > LOL, blocking a TU who's making valid points.
> >
> > This thread was going nowhere in the first place, so I guess it doesn't 
> > matter.

Indeed, this thread will go no where. Note that this guy has already
been banned from the forums because he has pulled similiar stunts there
aswell [1].

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 01:25:49PM +0200, Emil Lundberg via arch-general wrote:
> Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it seems appropriate for a TU to
> respond like that to a member of the community. It's certainly doesn't
> make for a welcoming atmosphere. Even though Arch is not for everyone,
> there's no need to actively drive people away by being rude. I also
> don't think authority is a good excuse for being rude - quite the
> opposite, in fact.

It's debetable if calling a idea stupid is rude, but just cutting off
all communication because you feel offended is not the way to go. If he
really wanted to improve things, he should have noted the tone as side
note after adressing the mentoined issues with his proposal.

[1]: https://bbs.archlinux.org/profile.php?id=113614


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Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Emil Lundberg via arch-general]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it seems appropriate for a TU to
respond like that to a member of the community. It's certainly doesn't
make for a welcoming atmosphere. Even though Arch is not for everyone,
there's no need to actively drive people away by being rude. I also
don't think authority is a good excuse for being rude - quite the
opposite, in fact.

/Emil


On 2019-10-14 17:22, Doug Newgard via arch-general wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 17:17:09 +0200
> Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general  wrote:
>
>> Robin Broda:
>>> This is universally stupid.  
>> abrasiveness = blockage
>>
> LOL, blocking a TU who's making valid points.
>
> This thread was going nowhere in the first place, so I guess it doesn't 
> matter.

Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Iyán Méndez Veiga]

El lunes, 14 de octubre de 2019 23:13:15 (CEST) Yaro Kasear escribió:
> On 10/14/19 3:59 PM, Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general wrote:
> > Video-reply 

I really don't like your attitute and nonverbal communication (that finger 
pointing all the time... so aggressive). And this leaving completely aside 
your proposals, which I cannot say if they are good or not because I am just a 
regular desktop user.

By the way, I've been subscribed for months to this list, and your answers and 
this video is the only rude/agressive content that I've read so far.

But don't worry, I don't hate you :)

Best regards,
Iyán

Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Aaron Laws via arch-general]

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 4:59 PM Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general <
arch-general@archlinux.org> wrote:

> Video-reply 
>

"no matter how much you know, you don't know everything"
has nothing to do with Robin's most egregious trespass: "This is
universally stupid." The fact that he said "stupid" instead of "a bad idea"
is really no grounds for shutting off conversation, and it's not because
he's insecure.

Be sure to separate yourself from the ideas you're floating. When he says a
particular practice is stupid, he's not calling you stupid. Even if he was,
surely you can handle such a small personal attack and move on? But he's
not.

Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Yaro Kasear]

On 10/14/19 3:59 PM, Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general wrote:
> Video-reply 

For someone who "can handle disagreement" like you claim in your video,
you sure are protesting quite a bit over it.

I also have a hard time someone is really extending a hand in good faith
with respectful, mutual discourse and productive discussion when they:

- Immediately block anyone who disagrees with them like you did three
times now at least.

- Hide like/dislike count on your videos.

- Disable comments on your videos.

It tells me you're not interested in people actually responding to your
thoughts in an intellectually honest way. I can handle disagreement too,
but I don't have time for people whose approach to criticism,
constructive or no, is intellectual dishonesty.

You're not asking for respect, you're asking for people to just accept
what you say. That's not the same thing. Respect means you can take
disagreement without blocking them or posting a Youtube video that's one
half boring and one half petulant whining about your treatment.

Yaro

Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general]

Video-reply 

Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Giancarlo Razzolini via arch-general]

Em outubro 14, 2019 12:41 Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general escreveu:

As said, blocked the latest three.

We can either have a constructive conversation or it's over, that 
simple. Make your choice.





Please, block me as well. Or, go even further and block anyone with an 
@archlinux.org
email address. Appreciate.

Regards,
Giancarlo Razzolini

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Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Yaro Kasear]

On 10/14/19 10:41 AM, Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general wrote:
> As said, blocked the latest three.
>
> We can either have a constructive conversation or it's over, that
> simple. Make your choice.
>
Blocking people who respond negatively to your proposal is a great way
to get people to universally hate your ideas. Especially when one of the
people you block is a TU who explains why your ideas won't be followed.

If you can't handle that, you're in the wrong place. Though as other
users have already pointed out, it looks like your proposal was a thread
going nowhere from the start.

Your proposal has little rationale given to justify your ideas, at least
one of your ideas already conflicts with existing guidelines, and one of
your ideas is startlingly bad security practice nobody should follow.

Yaro

Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general]

As said, blocked the latest three.

We can either have a constructive conversation or it's over, that 
simple. Make your choice.

Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Doug Newgard via arch-general]

On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 17:17:09 +0200
Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general  wrote:

> Robin Broda:
> > This is universally stupid.  
> abrasiveness = blockage
> 

LOL, blocking a TU who's making valid points.

This thread was going nowhere in the first place, so I guess it doesn't matter.

Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Óscar García Amor via arch-general]

El lun., 14 oct. 2019 a las 17:17, Alberto Salvia Novella via
arch-general () escribió:
>
> Robin Broda:
> > This is universally stupid.
> abrasiveness = blockage

Please, don't feed the troll and ignore this thread.

Greetings.

-- 
Óscar García Amor | ogarcia at moire.org | http://ogarcia.me

Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general]

Robin Broda:

This is universally stupid.

abrasiveness = blockage

Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Robin Broda via arch-general]

On 10/14/19 4:48 PM, Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general wrote:
> I want to suggest including all or some of these in the package guidelines 
> , or the 
> appropriate documentation:
> 
> 
> *New items:*
> 
> - Write your PKGBUILD in a way that will work by itself as long as possible, 
> for example by automatically generating the list of archives instead of hard 
> coding them.
> 

What

> - As far as practicable don't work around bugs on the package, but fix them 
> as upstream as possible.
> 

> - In package() "mv" locally built files, and "cp" or "install" the rest.
> 

?

> - In pkgdesc don't describe what the package is, but rather what it does. 
> Using a natural wording that any person will understand. For example don't 
> say "GTK UVC video viewer", but "Captures image from a webcam".
> 

This is wrong

> - If the license is a Creative Commons one, write it like "CCPL:by-sa".
> 
> 
> *Modifications:*
> 
> - Start new variables and functions names with a capital letter, to avoid 
> clashes with those in makepkg itself.
> 

This directly conflicts with our existing package etiquette[1]

> - In pkgver(), any printf() line shall finish with the new line char (\n).
> 
> 
> *Useful functions:*
> 
> In package(), you can set permissions recursively with:
> find "${pkgdir}" -type d -exec chmod u=rwx,g=rx,o=rx {} \;
> find "${pkgdir}" -type f -exec chmod u=rw,g=r,o=r {} \;
> chmod +x "${pkgdir}/usr/bin/${Name}"
> 

This is universally stupid. Sometimes permissions exist for a reason...

> In pkgver(), you can get the version from a web-site with something like this:
> curl --silent "${url}" | grep "${string}" | cut --delimiter='"' --fields=1
> 

No, you may not curl a remote for a version string. pkgver is ran *after* 
source acquisition.

> 
> (Reply to this email including me on the recipients list, or I won't receive 
> it)

Too bad(?!) - Subscribe to the mailing list if you wish to partake or start 
threads like this...


Please don't make up new guidelines that are both nonsensical and in direct 
conflict of existing guidelines.

[1] 
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_package_guidelines#Package_etiquette

-- 
Rob (coderobe)

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Re: [arch-general] Package guidelines 📦

[Emil Lundberg via arch-general]

On 2019-10-14 16:48, Alberto Salvia Novella via arch-general wrote:
> - Start new variables and functions names with a capital letter, to
> avoid clashes with those in makepkg itself. 

Isn't there an existing convention to use an underscore prefix
(`_pkgname`) for this?

/Emil